₦airaland Forum

elated177:
I don't have time for this.

Answer the question. Do you give the MouthAction?

Then don't start it.

Already answered.

Dtruthspeaker:
Nothing I can do to make you see what everyone else has seen.

It won't have been a question if everyone has seen this soul. The OP said it is spiritual so is a physical body now spiritual?

Nothingserious:
So you agree that the current scientific laws and theories are based on presuppositions ( belief/faith) that the current status quo in nature isn’t altered?

No they are not. They are based on observation, there is no belief required.

You didn’t respond to the rational intelligibility of the universe that makes science and scientific observations possible.
If the universe and its laws were chaotic, purposeless, disorderly and mindless, won’t we get varying results for same scientific tests performed over same conditions? Would the laws and theories we have be possible?

I didn't say that the universe was chaotic and disorderly. I do say it is mindless and purposeless though.

Once again the laws and theories we have are based on observation and so are descriptive.

What you haven't answered is what any of this needs faith or belief.

No. They won’t. So there is order. There are laws. There is a designer. There is a law giver.

Scientific laws are not determination issued by a mind but descriptions of processes observed so how do you leap from that to therefore there is a designer or lawgiver?

Back to my question which you have avoided yet found it important to estimate the age of the earth from Genesis. What is the time frame between Genesis 1:1 and verse 2? You think the question is irrelevant? Lol! Yet you think your assumptions about the age of the earth to ridicule Christins from same book is appropriate.

You don’t have to have the answer. It’s for you to ponder on.

You asked budaatum the question. No need to ponder it though since the Bible is not a science text and is subject to any sort of interpretation.

Dtruthspeaker:
When I seek Evidence, I prefer the Direct and Best One. And Death is the easiest and fastest House where one can see the difference between a Soul and man.

In the alternative, you can watch the death of a thief hopefully you would See as his soul "struggles to hang on to life" and it's "giving up"

All is I see are people with physical bodies struggling to live, no soul in sight.

PastorM:
Lol. We probably had the same idea

BTW are you a teacher by profession? You seem to be very good at trying to communicate with simple concepts.

Emusan:
So shameful how you just choose to be deliberately lying.

Pharaoh knows the midwives didn't KILLED THE BOYS, so if the midwives lied to Pharaoh, how come Pharaoh still know that they spared the BOYS (plural)?

It's evident that you're the one who want to force deception into those verses.



So what is your point?

The point is that the midwives absolved themselves by lying. They deceived the Pharaoh by telling him they weren't present for the births when they were. And of course the Pharaoh believed them or else he'd have had them executed or jailed. There is no forcing of anything, the thing is clearly written or you're just being obtuse.

I can see that!

Glad you can.

PastorM:
We live by faith and not by sight!

Ok so you just believe that after you die there'll be treasure waiting for you? What's the difference between that and 419?

Happy Birthday! LLNP!

Dtruthspeaker:
Simple! Drink snyper or run into a speeding Dangote truck. don't worry, we'll have an Ambulance, Surgeons, Defribrillator standing by.

What is it about death or injury that makes you think a soul exists?

Nothingserious:
You smartly didn’t respond to my post.
That’s okay.
I would love you to. But if you don’t want to, then the premises on which your arguments are based are faulty.

When you ask me a proper question I will respond.

Again, scientists observe and draw scientific laws and theories from observations and tests.
All are also hinged on the rational intelligibility of the universe: that the universe is not random , chaotic and mindless as some of you skeptics would have us think. No. If it were not ordered and designed like the theists and Christians think and preach, it would be difficult to have scientific laws and processes respond to same conditions everyday and over time before going into scientific texts.

Can you imagine what would happens if we wake up and don’t see the sun for 365 days as we were used to? Or gravity doesn’t work again as it used to? Would all the scientific laws hinged on the sun and gravity ( optics, mechanics and dynamics) remain same?

Science just believes the conditions would be same and relies on those assumptions. That is faith and belief.

You don't get it. If the universe changes today scientists are not going to put hands on their heads and start wailing about how their beliefs have been shattered, they'll instead be scrambling to take the new observations. Meaning, I don't see where belief fits into this. Simply observing the universe with its physical laws that have remained unchanged requires no faith or belief since you are merely watching and recording, any changes will similarly be seen and observed so how does faith or belief figure in it? We don't have faith it won't change seeing as we are merely observing that it hasn't changed. What would be the purpose of having faith here?

Teripaul:
a soul is the spiritual or immaterial part of a human or animal regarded as immortal

What is spiritual and how can we know the soul exists?

PastorM:
Lol I was born here then parents decided to return to Nigeria. I grew up in Nigeria then came back here.

Here as in London, UK

My mum resides there as well and she too has those notes. LoL

PastorM:
Lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt

I wish you could show me evidence of this treasure in heaven. Is there like a bank account so that you can know the value or how do you know it exists?

Chai! E don tey wey you don comot for Naija!

Teripaul:
My dear brothers and sisters, as they say, money is everythinq, my dear money is not everything, can money redeem ur soul? Pause a minute and ask yourself this question. .

What is a soul?

Nothingserious:
You didn’t say how many years are in between Genesis 1:1 and verse 2. So you are wrong in your calculations and assumptions about the age you quoted earlier. Maybe you can still comment on that.

Scientific tests and theories are all hinged on the fact that the universe is rationally intelligible to allow certain observations performed on the physical matter with the conditions remaining same any time the tests are done.
Once any of the conditions in the universe is tilted, the laws would come out differently. Science has no power to set those conditions or their continuous stability or permanence but would continue observing nature and hoping all the conditions are same tomorrow as they are today. That’s some kind of faith and belief.

Science has not said anything to make us think Genesis accounts are primitive. Maybe you are saying it in the name of science. Of course you aren’t science.

If someone is merely observing the universe why does he need to believe anything about the universe?

elated177:
Mm-hmm!

Why would I be antsy? I am just a messenger.

Being concerned about what people do in their sex lives is pretty angsty to me.

Acehart:
Tell me about your enlightenment experience from this video

Have you watched the video?

elated177:
You people? Who are the "you people".
You were. Go through your first responses.

You people as in god believers.

My first response:

LordReed:
Na wa for the god that likes to police how people use their diçks and pussìes while watching porn all day every day.

Where is the angst? If anybody was antsy it would be you.

elated177:
I want to know why this particular issue made you antsy.

LMAO! Why do you people like to lie to yourselves so much? Me antsy? How? Are you dreaming?

elated177:
You weren't specific. MouthAction could go both ways.

LMAO! What the heck are you going to do with such information?

Emusan:
After I made it clear that there's nothing like "DECEPTION" in what the midwives did based on those verses you quoted, you can still go ahead to ask "did they tell the Pharoah the truth?"

Atheists actually have high IQ than religious people indeed.

LMAO! Read 17 The midwives, however, feared God and did not do what the king of Egypt had told them to do; they let the boys live.

and then 19 The midwives answered Pharaoh, “Hebrew women are not like Egyptian women; they are vigorous and give birth before the midwives arrive.”

How can you say there was no deception? The Hebrew midwives lied to the Pharaoh that they never observed the births in ver19 when ver17 says they did. BTW so you mean Hebrew midwives would disobey the Pharaoh this way and he would spare their lives, really?

I never made the claim that atheists have a higher IQ than religious people but from these posts I do have a higher IQ than you.

Image123:
Over 100 posts from you since the last we discussed this. Over 90% of it in addictive awe of the living God, few chirps on politics and others, none still on cocomelon.

LoL! Why do you guys like lying to yourselves?

Image123:
Objection sustained. Every Nigerian in Nigeria knows the definition of witch/wizard.

LoL. Why didn't you say that when I asked you? Bwahahahahaha!

For your enlightenment:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3sR3z_rvQ4

hupernikao:
Well, I want to believe that your wrong conclusion was based on what you read from the Bible howbeit, wrongly. This is the basis for my writings. I can only use that same scriptures where you are pointing to, to play back to you how wrongly you have interpreted it. So, I am fully reading and paying attention to what you wrote.


But you are the one who have not taken into cognizance what I am saying to proofread the scriptures again. If not we will only be in circles. If you take your decision from the scriptures, then proper examination of the text is important to know who is giving the right meaning.

But you aren't ready for that. Except maybe your conclusion about God is from another source then I will have nothing to say but if it's from the Bible text, proper examination of the text is what will reveal who is saying the truth.

Once again nothing you have written has addressed the simple fact that your god is kool with deception and uses it to his own ends. Instead you've run the gamut of all these other things, why would I need to address the things that don't address my point. You are the one beating about the bush. If you fail to address my point I have no obligation to respond to your strawmen.

Emusan:
Lol.... So you know more than Pharaoh himself

It's evident you couldn't read deception into those verses

It was a simple question, a yes or no would have sufficed.

Emusan:
If you want to criticise, at least criticise intelligently and with open mind.

You quoted verses yet you can't see where you contradicted yourself.

Here is my point!

1. The King of Egypt who is Pharaoh gave a command according to verse 17
2. The midwives feared God and didn't follow the command of Pharaoh (this is not a deception)
3. Pharaoh himself found out and called them for interrogation (if it's a deception Pharaoh could have taken action on them and eventually executed the boy)
4. God blessed the midwives for fearing Him not for deception that's never happened in the first place.

So I don't know where an open-minded person see deception in a case like this.

Simple question, did they tell the Pharoah the truth?

hupernikao:
I believe you have been cleared about the midwife and Abraham.

Now let me take the 2 Thess 2 you have emphasized. Truly i would have loved it if you are into Christian hermeneutics, it would make things easy for me to explain because of the route i will take now.

Now the problem in 2 Thess 2 isnt your own but the way the translators addressed it. And this is the reasons most times in hermeneutics you have to examine the original writings to conclude.

---

Now this is what you quoted.
2 Thess 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: KJV

I can authoritative tell you this is wrong considering the context and usage of words.

1. The word delusion there is taken from the word planē, it means error or to stray away.

KJV captured it better in James 5
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

The word error (planē) here is what 2 Thess 2:11 captured as delusion.

---

This is even simpler mistake by most of the translation, the key mistake from the translation is in expressing the whole verse different from the original writing stated.

If you pay attention, it already showed you that this people are disobedient and neglected God.

Verse 10
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

So, these ones already rejected the truth, its not about God sending them away or bringing lies to them. They have seen the truth and rejected it. That must be carried in explaining verse 11.

With this, it is wrong translation to state that God will send delusion for them to believe a lie. These ones already believed lies, they are children of lies. Hence, that wasnt the translation. If you want i will send you the way the original was constructed for you to the the translators mistakes. But let me give you the closest to the original intent.


YLT Translation
10 and in all deceitfulness of the unrighteousness in those perishing, because the love of the truth they did not receive for their being saved,
11 and because of this shall God send to them a working of delusion, for their believing the lie,

A key elements, is that God didnt send them deception to believe a lie but, left them in what they already believed.



See the Message Translation (This is contextual)
9-12 The Anarchist’s coming is all Satan’s work. All his power and signs and miracles are fake, evil sleight of hand that plays to the gallery of those who hate the truth that could save them. And since they’re so obsessed with evil, God rubs their noses in it—gives them what they want. Since they refuse to trust truth, they’re banished to their chosen world of lies and illusions..

Please read this again.

That is the read interpretation if you examine the original text and also context.

Already said you cleared nothing before. Is it that you don't pay attention to what I write and you instead just like to talk at me. If that is the case I won't be responding to you henceforth because I detest such conversations. If you simply want to write what you feel without taking cognisance of what I write then you might as well have the conversation with yourself.

Once again the summation of my point is your god is kool with deception, nothing you wrote has countered that simple fact.

hupernikao:
Have you gotten the part of the man first?

Have you gotten that your god is kool with deception yet? LMFAO!

hupernikao:
I can admit, that your conclusion is based on wrong knowledge of the scriptures. Or likely a refusal to take what you read. I want to believe its the first.

And to help you conclude well,

The Bible God does not only overlook deception of all men, he overlooked their weaknesses and sins, including yours and mine. He submerged them into the ocean of his grace, to make a new man, who will commence a new life learning the way of the Lord.

You must see beyond the deception, even sins, all sins, worst sins of man were overlooked at the appearance of his grace. So, you arent speaking anything new of that is your point. All those points are to reveal His grace even in man's sins.


[b]A father who want to train his child well, yet complains and focus on the child's deception of stealing sugar isnt ready to be a father.[/b The fatherhood of God, isnt neglecting you in that your lies and deceptions, he is working his way out to make you a better person.

Your god didn't send a man to Ahab he sent a spirit. In the new testament it says he will send a strong delusion so I dunno what man's imperfection has to do with it. Your god uses deception period.

hupernikao:
You still see, you have read the bible wrongly. You will need to take my word as gospel truth, irrespective of what you have learned in the past. Take this to the bank.

1. Bible never presented a perfect man, bible never seek a perfect man. Bible presented imperfect men, perfected by God. It explained a perfect God, leaving his domain to seek, find and dwell with imperfect man. This is what the bible presented. If you have a different opinion of this, you arent speaking of the bible.

2. Men even in bible days, were learning as you are today within the confined of their exposure. They werent perfect. They lied, they deceived, they kill, they disobeyed. Seeking for an all knowing man in the bible will be an hypocrisy. No such man existed and bible presented it clearly as such. This should simply let you find out what exactly is God's demand if imperfect people, liars, etc can still find grace, them you need to ask what does God demands. Its in this you will know God's heart revealed through the Bible.

3. Any one presenting to you perfection in man, or man walking perfectly by his own, or man receive God's blessing because he walked perfectly is lying to you. He himself, with such utterance is a true evidence of God's grace to liars and imperfection.


So when you read man's weaknesses in the bible, see this as you are even today, you walk through challenges of life, have decisions to make, sometimes wrong ones, sometimes good ones. Man will always be imperfect as much as decisions are based by his. It is a walk with God's spirit that gives you the right direction to things, but the best of man is still learning that and can still walk in the flesh to disobey.

So, read bible with this eye. No bible actor is perfect, non. and bible made you see that clearly, hence its honest stand point.

Please read what I wrote again and tell me were I said men have to be perfect.