₦airaland Forum

Odunayaw:
Ehya

Meanwhile, in Mozambique.

The intensity of these tests would suggest something looming in the short to mid term.

kabe1:
How does the modern SAAF fight in combat, as far as I have seen, the SAAF always flies Attack helicopters in the DRC in pairs.

So irrespective of what the rule says, the reality on the ground is there are always 2 SAAF in the air during combat operations. That rule doesn't really apply here.

DRC, Bangui are two very recent examples where fast jets, light attack jets have been required but where never deployed.

Depot maintenance, are you saying that there must be Denel staff present during Depot maintenance? What are SAAF engineers then trained to do? Do you not see the capability gap present?


You cannot claim to have a rigid policy when the funds, equipment and trained personnel are not present.

The French for example use the Gazelle for utility and attack, Nigerian Air Force use the A-109 for utility and attack. Russia use the MI-17 for utility and attack. There is no rule that says one size must fit and only work for one activity.

Ok.

[quote author=kabe1 post=108836660][/quote]There's also no rule that states 3 helicopters deployed must be replaced by 3 helicopters.
Actually, all decent militaries apply this rule: 1 in the field/ops, 1 in maintenance and 1 in training.

I don't think I've seen RSA fast jets used in any sort of combat before.
Why would you have, when we've not been fighting any war since Angola?

Are you saying all maintenance must be done by Denel, what do SAAF engineers do then?

You do know what depot maintenance is right, after a 6 month deployment?

Another why out should be arming of SAAF AW-109 helicopters, this would help in increasing the number of SAAF combat helicopters in service.
The A109 in SAAF service is a light utility/transport chopper.

23 dead for the loss of 1 is not a bad odd.
Scores more dead, several bases raided and destroyed in many months now, with no fatalities on SAMIM side.

kabe1:
Do you have a comprehensive list of SA military equipment deployed in Mozambique?

What's the official reason for not deploying Attack Helicopters?

No, I don't.
Don't know the official reason. But where will those attack helis come from? The SADC plan included them, which just means Angola or SA.
Don't know about Angola, but here's the situation in SA:
For the DRC mission:
- 3 Rooivalk currently deployed in DRC; rotated every 6 months
- 3 Rooivalk at Denel depot for maintenance, having come back from DRC deployment
- 3 Rooivalk at 16 Squadron, next in line for DRC deployment and being used for pre-deplyment training.
That's 9 Rooivalk tied up for the DRC mission.

That leaves 2 Rooivalk available to the Squadron for everyday training.

In short, they'd have to withdraw Rooivalk from DRC, to efficiently deploy to Mozambique without cutting corners.

Personal opinion: If Denel were in better shape, depot time could be cut by half, allowing one to insert a 3-month deployment cycle into the 6-month DRC one.

That's before we even consider the perennial question, where would the money come from?

kabe1:
In memory and to the honor of Corporal Tebogo Radebe. Warrior to the end. ��

Cpl Radebe - KIA 20 December, 2021.

SA Special Forces soldier killed in operation against terrorists in Mozambique.

RIP warrior.

Statement on the Botswana Government facebook page:
BWgovernment
Yesterday at 12:00 ·
MEDIA RELEASE: SAMIM KILLS TWENTY-THREE TERRORISTS
In support of Forḉas Armadas de Defesa de Moḉambique (FADM), SAMIM forces launched an offensive operation on 22 December 2021, which led to the capture of two Al Sunnah wa Jama’ah (ASWJ) terrorists’ bases around Chai settlement in Macomia District, Cabo Delgado Province. During this operation, on 19th and 20th December, fourteen (14) terrorists were killed whilst eight women, three children and two elderly males believed to have been abducted by the terrorists were rescued. The victims are under the care of national authorities. The number of terrorists killed from the start of the offensive to date stands at twenty-three (23).
On a somber note, SAMIM forces suffered three casualties during this offensive; one fatality and two injuries whilst FADM suffered six casualties with two fatalities. Our deepest condolences go to the bereaved families, friends and country. The injured members are recuperating and on their way to full recovery.
Moreover, SAMIM forces have confiscated, amongst others weapons that include RPG 7 launchers, PKM Machine Guns and AK47 rifles and grenades. Nonetheless, SAMIM Forces continue to dominate and pursue the insurgents in the operational area.
SAMIM forces in support of the Government of Mozambique continue to create conditions necessary for a return to normal life in the Province of Cabo Delgado as it pursues the terrorists. SAMIM would like to assure the people of Mozambique and SADC of a collective commitment to achieving a peaceful, stable and secure Cabo Delgado as well as the entire country of Mozambique. SAMIM takes this time to wish the Government and the People of the Republic of Mozambique a Merry Christmas and a prosperous New Year.
ISSUED BY SAMIM

Lurker4Long:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPV_qO-Wct0

Speaking of PR, dominating the narrative means the Nigerian military has to be first in documenting its annual progress, and not have to react to something like this, which is now being referenced far and wide.

https://www.calibreobscura.com/the-weaponry-of-is-west-africa-attrition-continues/

kabe1:
Merry Christmas from the Proforce PF Viper

You guys have snow in December in Nigeria?

Lurker4Long:
Meanwhile, in Mozambique.
https://www.defenceweb.co.za/featured/south-african-soldier-killed-during-combat-in-mozambique/

Our 1st casualty. RIP soldier, you've done your duty, and more strength to your team.

...the first Special Forces member killed in action since Corporal H Carstens during the Border War in April 1989.

Meanwhile, in Mozambique.
https://www.defenceweb.co.za/featured/south-african-soldier-killed-during-combat-in-mozambique/

Our 1st casualty. RIP soldier, you've done your duty, and more strength to your team.

kikuyu1:
Marauders are only 220k$? Srsly!?

Edit: my bad,caught the answer!.

First Dar, then Mombasa. Terrorist returnees fleeing the heat in Moz are becoming a regional problem.
But based on what your guys did in Likoni, you've got this.

I worry about our Tanzo cousins. If they'd sealed off their border with a proper and sizeable infantry deployment as soon as SADC SF hit the ground in Moz as per plan, most of these fvckers wouldn't now be scampering across east Africa.

But no, they wanted the PR spectacle of their SF landing in Pemba, and didn't do the unglamorous work of sealing off the border.

In the DRC, SANDF Mamba APCs are taking and withstanding a beating.

[b]EDIT:[/b]Gun shields have been adapted, through experience, to the same design as on the SF vehicles.

kabe1:
I couldn't disagree with this.

Unfortunately, all the losing Turkish and Russian competitors cannot claim bribery and corruption: they either paid bribes to the wrong people, or paid less to the right people. And claiming Barys 8x8 prototypes have issues is not going to work.
We all know what's going on. I love how one of the blogs was so upfront: "How did Slavs and Turks lose to mere Africans with our brother Kazakhs?"

kabe1:
I don't think an MRAP should be that expensive. $550k for an MRAP is clearly a rip off.

However I'll like to point out a couple of things you might have missed out. The cost of building the Infrastructure in Kazakhstan, training personnel, payment for moving skilled South-African to the country, which alot of people might not be willing to take is included in that unit cost, especially when compared to Singapore.

These things would impact unit costs unfortunately.

I agree that alot of kickback and corruption is also at play, but we are not comparing apples and apples here. More like apples and pasta.

Also do you really believe kickbacks are not rampant in the Defence industry, that's simply not true. Although we all laughed at France for losing the Australia submarine contract, I don believe that France lost that deal purely on technicalities and American security guarantees alone. I believe Australia has fought alongside the US from World War I till present.

They were in no shape or form going to lose American protection due to French diesel submarines, especially when the French offered Nuclear Subs at the start of the programme.

Also look at the method with which one of the Nordic countries, I think Denmark or Norway chose the F-35.

I'm not excusing Paramount but the cost for new players or old players to enter new markets can be very high.

I'm not saying the arms industry is saintly. I'm saying Paramount has been very unsophisticated, and greedily grasping about it all.
Charging almost $1-million, and getting it, for a $150K Marauder means you're going to piss off your competitors, and attract negative publicity for such normal things as what happens during prototype tests.

And that's exactly what happened throughout the Barys program. From the Marauder to the Barys 8x8, these guys just made off like bandits. The losing competitors actually have a case on corruption, not product quality.

kabe1:
On the other hand Nautic Africa does alot of business in Nigeria and I know they have a maintenance facility in Onne, South-South Nigeria.

Nautic/Paramount Marine is actually the cleanest unit of the Paramount lot. Not surprising, globally, there tends to be less skulduggery in the naval sector. That's why the Apartheid regime never tried to set up an sanctions-busting naval unit: could never get away with it, unlike land and air.

kabe1:
I will check for the information and paste it here.

Unfortunately the Nigerian Air Force only received a very, very small quantity for the Panthers team.

Those vehicles which were previously based at the Air Force Base in Maiduguri have now been been moved to Air Training Command in Niger state, close to Abuja where the Super Tucanos are currently based.

Because of the little number I think NAF Marauders would be more expensive than the Singapore variants.

Mozambique bought 12 and paid $220K/vehicle. Nigeria's price has to be closer to that. Singapore bought more, negotiated better terms and therefore paid less.
That's why the Kazakh Marauder deal from years ago is dodgy: countries buying less units are paying less, only because Paramount SA sold products to Paramount Bermuda, who then did business in Kazakhstan. They ended up paying over $500K/marauder.
Clear corruption in Khazakstan, and frankly, anybody paying more than $150K/Marauder has a corrupt deal involving both buyer and seller.

Lurker4Long:
Finally, some confirmation that the Paramount Mwari we all thought had been loaned to Mozambique, was actually purchased.
Hidden amongst the many opaque documents that make up the Moz Budget recently passed by their Parliament, a table that pulls together what the various entities have been paying.

As for Mwari, not clear if $10m is the fly-away price or includes other incrementals.

Postscript1: the table is from a Portuguese to English translation of the various documents by EU funded institutions whose job is to monitor Moz spending, seeing over 60% of Moz budget is funded by donors, mainly external.

Postscript2: Wagner figures not cited as the company doesn't "officially" report to any jurisdiction.

Postscript3: Dyck and Paramount report to the SA NCACC and Moz had no choice but to report and disperse those figures.

Kabe1, it would be interesting to find out what the NAF paid for its Paramount Marauders. We know for example, that Singapore paid for less than the $220K/vehicle for their domestically manufactured version, the Belrex. And that's because they bought in larger quantities for a longer contract span (what traders call economies of scale), and also domesticated the manufacture and cost.

Finally, some confirmation that the Paramount Mwari we all thought had been loaned to Mozambique, was actually purchased.
Hidden amongst the many opaque documents that make up the Moz Budget recently passed by their Parliament, a table that pulls together what the various entities have been paying.

As for Mwari, not clear if $10m is the fly-away price or includes other incrementals.

Postscript1: the table is from a Portuguese to English translation of the various documents by EU funded institutions whose job is to monitor Moz spending, seeing over 60% of Moz budget is funded by donors, mainly external.

Postscript2: Wagner figures not cited as the company doesn't "officially" report to any jurisdiction.

Postscript3: Dyck and Paramount report to the SA NCACC and Moz had no choice but to report and disperse those figures.

Meanwhile, in Mozambique.

SAAF Super Lynx 300 MK64 on mountain flying training.

Hmmm...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3yNdYc9OZk

Rare pic, and not to be repeated. 16 Squadron was testing the CSIR-designed fuel drop tanks for the Rooivalk. Designing, manufacturing the tanks was expensive enough, without dropping and destroying them.
How do you test that the Rooivalk can carry and drop them?

Do the same test with another equivalent product, of course.

kikuyu1:
In theory its always good to have enough firepower! IRL weight is a problem for dismounts so it becomes an either or proposition: if this were a mere section I'd include the 60 milly for unit plunging fire capability seeing there's already a Milkor for 37 mm direct fire. Every 2 guys would carry 4 rounds in addition to personal kit. If this were a platoon I'd throw in an RPG-7 distributing at least 24 rounds each weighing at least 2.5 kg among 7 guys.

Milkor 40mm, if you please!
I disagree with you and jl155 on patmor in a section. For the extra rifleman on mortar duty, I'd rather have a 2nd 40mm GL.
Of course in a platoon, I express my full Saffa love for mortars.

jl115:
Patmor 100%....brilliant ambush defence especially for smaller squads!!! Being able to reply with mortar fire(within seconds) in an ambush situation is gold!!

Typical Saffa opting for mortars!
For what it's worth, I agree. 40mm grenade launcher and screw the RPG. 60mm Patmor anyday. But here's the question: a Patmor requires 2 pax; in a section, that's a rifleman less in your counter-ambush drills.

Everything about this foot patrol in the DRC just seems correct:
- Designated Marksman -> check;

- Grenadier -> check;

- Foot patrol TTPs -> check;

- Walk where locals walk -> check;

What I've not been able to establish is whether this foot patrol was undertaken by a section or platoon.

Kikuyu1, Odunayaw, CaptainStephen, Jl115, shadowprimezero, SuperSixSeven : would you include the 60mm patmor and RPG-7 on this patrol, and why?

jl115:
covid lock downs have also had a severe impact on the availability of spares

Whilst playing a role, I doubt the severity of the impact. How many years has the military been warning the government that starving the SANDF of funds, whilst heaping on more and more missions, will lead to things breaking down?