₦airaland Forum

cyrexx: they were in the closets until the Return of the Golden Child, Master Logicboy himself, whose courageous and tireless posts and threads spawned and encouraged more and more atheistic posts and nairaland has never been the same again.

lmao.....Nairaland no go kill me with laughter!

[quote author=Mr_Anony]I see, humanism is not about the individual but humanity as a whole. If this is the case, then altruism sits perfectly in it. What doesn't fit in it now is self autonomy, because a time comes where a person will need to be sacrificed for the collective and it will not help if such an individual should choose not to be sacrificed. Such a person's decision must be overridden for the sake of the 'greater good'

You cannot have it both ways my friend.[/quote]You are really playing the fool here. Do you have no shame?

You are trying to claim that embracing both the importance of indviduality and the importance of humanity as a whole are contradictory.


You must be a silly person not to see that individuality is a part of a whole; humanity made up of individuals.

it is like claiming a jigsaw piece is contradictory to the whole puzzle.




It is either

a) You are stup1d
b) You are decietful
c) You are full of hate for humanism


End of story

[quote author=Mr_Anony]You are the one holding up moral universalism. For morality to be universal, it must be objective. If morality is objective, then it must be based on something. The question would now arise: what is it based on?
If on the other hand, you claim that it is subjective, then you cannot claim "moral universalism".

Don't just throw in an 'ism' if you don't fully understand what it means.

Any way, I am interested in knowing these situations where the subjectivity of morality changes[/quote]Are you foolish? Who are you trying to bamboozle here? Its bad enough that you switched the topic after you have lost the debate on whether atheists have morals but to now claim indirectly that I dont know the meaning of moral universalism is just plain foolishness.


Morality is mostly subjective but in some instances, there are clear cut cases of objective morality where we all say that an action is inhuman, wrong or immoral.

For instance, marriage of cousins was not seen as incest (with European monarchs and Muslims) until science proved that there is a high consanguinity in first cousins.


The morality changed. Unfortunately, like christians, the muslims believe in absolute morality and the moral law-giver sanctioned cousin marriage and so, first cousin marriage is allowed in islam.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Let me ask you this: Is morality objective or subjective to the individual?[/quote]Depends on the situation

Why are you asking this question? Have you finally seen the errors of your arguments?

ijawkid: Lol....

They were afraid of being matyred........lol....

lololol.


So what gave them the courage

[quote author=Mr_Anony]If we have differences based on our different environments and different sociological factors, why then should our moral laws be the same? Why should what you consider good and evil be respected by MoGs or anyone else since you are obviously not influenced by the same environment and sociological factors?[/quote]Moral universalism. look it up.


Furthermore, there are basic traits we have as a species. Some basic form of morality that we have inbuilt. Moral universalism comes in here.


You have been served

[quote author=Mr_Anony]You see Martian, that stance will only be true if they once believed that a god used to help them but has now disappeared so they now have to help each other. It doesn't follow from a premise where they believe that such a helper god has never existed in the first place.[/quote]Huh? really?

If I have always known that no one is going to help me and others, it wouldnt logically follow that I would see myself and others as the ones that have to do the helping? Is that your point?

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Oh good, you said:
"Evolution and sociology explains a lot. Our intelligence is evolutionary. We inherit some instincts from our ancestors and we also hone them with relationships with other people in the society"

I hope you do realize that unless we all have a one particular common ancestor, our "inherited instincts" will differ greatly and hence will not be binding on everyone. [/quote]Is that some christian biology? As a species, we share some common traits. There wull be differences due to adaptation to different environments and other sociological factors.



It seems that I have answered your question

You have been served

Smh

[quote author=Mr_Anony]stop dancing around and taking swipes at christianity. Just answer the question. Tell us how a law can exist without a law giver[/quote]Did i not explain with evolution and social relations? See the artful dodger doing his dodging again!

MacDaddy01: If truly the law is in our hearts, then there is no need for the bible in the first place. Your above commment is nonsensiscal and self-refuting.




There is no moral law-giver. You are entering into creationism

[size=14pt]Evolution and sociology explains a lot. Our intelligence is evolutionary. We inherit some instincts from our ancestors and we also hone them with relationships with other people in the society




[/size]Huh, so god makes a law binding? You might want to reread your bible and see what would happened if we accepted the moral authority of your god.

We would be stoning gays and murdering unebleievers.

wiegraf: Even if one didn't come pre-packaged with some sort of morality, and that is debatable, he should accept christianity's code why? The code of ethics of a religion which believes in talking fires and espouses the death penalty for those who work on sabbath (the current discrimination against homosexuals is usually attributed to an OT verse so it counts, many simply enjoy cherry picking when it fits their needs). A religion based on faith. One, crucially, often crippled by dogma.

Sam harris points out that if you whisked an european from about 1000 years ago to today, even doors that seem to magically open when you approach them will dazzle him, let's not even talk of exploring the solar system. However, mention christianity, its still pretty much the same thing. There isn't much you could tell him that would surprise him so long as he could read and had access to the bible during his era. If he were a christian, he might even be pissed with what he'd view as the church making concessions (as it's constantly being proven wrong) on various issues. A religion from a bygone era where slavery, mysoginism etc where morally acceptable (in fact favored, eg with the way women were treated. who let them out of the kitchen?).

How are this religions ethics, man made as far some members of other religions and the irreligious are concerned, outdated or from rival deities to other religious denominations, be more acceptable then a group of ethics arrived at by a consensus and accepting a few basic principles which objectively aid the survival, success, quality of life of sentient life: basic rights for all sentients?

Too much sense.


You have scared Anony away!

obadiah777: in the bottomless pit chained down by one of the muscled angels

haha

obadiah777: life goes in cycles. during that era He and Frosbel owned this section. they were the top dawgs.

lol


True talk bro. Where were the atheists and skeptics then?

Joagbaje: ... and he answers a lot of peoples questions, with The bible

not bad....


I see, so the tithe preaching was not the major part of your ministry. Good.

ijawkid: Lol......

Mayb he was good @ his tithe preaching......

lmao

[quote author=Mr_Anony]That is the point I am challenging. If the individual is the central focus of humanism, then altruism cannot possibly exist within it's framework since all acts of the individual will be judged based on how best the individual is benefited. The best you can get in a secular humanist worldview is mutualism.
Altruism can only logically exist in a theist worldview[/quote]@bold
The $tupidity in your comment come from two fundamental errors;
a) "Benefit" means different things to different people. I would die for my children, you would. My children are my future and a benefit to me and my legacy and not to yo.

b)Humanity recognizes the individual but everyone is an individual and an individual action can affect other individuals. The acts of the individual is will also be judged on its effect on other individuals if it does effect others. If the action of the individual does not affect others then,the action is for the sole individual to judge


Anony Debunked for good this time!

lets see how you come back from that one!

Yes, how did Joagbaje win the 2011 religion section poster for last year (2011)?
https://www.nairaland.com/816588/joagbaje-voted-religion-section-poster

I am sorry, if i am coming across as hateful but it is just surprising as i thought that chistians had dignity and a tithe preaching logic acrobat would not be voted into such a position/award!

There are many christians who I would have accepted without question but Joagbaje? Seriously? What happened to Pastor AIO, Anony, Enigma etc?

Joagbaje: Yes of course and beyond that . There's actually a father to children relationship spiritually speaking. jesus often address his desciple as his children even though many were older than him.

John 13:33
Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.

Paul did thesame too

Galatians 4:19
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

The only reason for calling them children is because he assumed position of a father

Likewise John

1 John 2:1
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1 Corinthians 4:15
After all, though you should have ten thousand teachers (guides to direct you) in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the glad tidings (the Gospel).


Philippians 2:22
But ye know the proof of him, that, as a son with the father, he hath served with me in the gospel.

It is not a law. It's based on relationship. Afterall it is not the person who gave birth that is parent but the person who raise the child.

As usual a tithe-preacher will twist scriptures to further his mission of deceiving his slave church members.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Lol, actually the bible tells us that God has written His law upon our hearts. That's where our moral code comes from. What you are doing is to accept the Law but reject the Law giver.[/quote]If truly the law is in our hearts, then there is no need for the bible in the first place. Your above commment is nonsensiscal and self-refuting.


[quote author=Mr_Anony]Please tell me how you can logically say that we are born prepackaged with a set of moral principles yet when asked how come this is so? i.e. who or what laid down these principles? your answer is that no such moral law-giver exists.[/quote]There is no moral law-giver. You are entering into creationism

Evolution and sociology explains a lot. Our intelligence is evolutionary. We inherit some instincts from our ancestors and we also hone them with relationships with other people in the society

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Now the next thing that springs from this is why should such a moral-code which has no author be binding?[/quote]Huh, so god makes a law binding? You might want to reread your bible and see what would happened if we accepted the moral authority of your god.

We would be stoning gays and murdering unebleievers.

CrazyMan: For respect I guess

Which dirty respect.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]lol, so you have no moral code? You don't have the right to judge another person's morality.
If you are going to judge another person's walking style, then you must provide your certificate for walking.[/quote]Praise be to the Spaghetti Monster!


You are showing your true colours! Everyone knows how to walk. Surely, even a 5 year old can tell that something is wrong with someone limping.


Humans already have a basic set of moral principles that come prepackaged. These morals become better defined when we interact with others in society and use logic plus science to hone them. What we have achieved so far as a species is to identify moral universalism.


So when asking me for my moral code, all I can do is laugh because you are trying to force a discredited christian world view of the bible/.christ as morality for all humans into reality

razznaija: 86 views and just two comments.

lmao....many of them do it!


If any pastor wants me to call him daddy, he better buy me a private jet

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Sweet![/quote]

[quote author=Mr_Anony]perhaps you may want to start by giving us the details of this atheist moral code of conduct by which you judge these "MoGs"[/quote]This is where you debunk yourself with wickedness. Do I need a moral code, God or the bible to know that killing, stealing or beating someone for no reason is wrong?


Surely, if you need a moral code to know these things, you must be awicked christian bigot like I said all along.


It is like asking me where my certificate for walking is. Do I need a cerificate for something that is naturally a part of me?

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Please educate me on the complexities of humanism.

By the way, I hope you do realize that there are such things as christian humanism, islamic humanism, humanistic judaism, early greek humanism etc.

My case today is with secular humanism where the human being is at the center. My challenge to all is to show me how altruism/self-sacrifice as having high moral value logically follows from a morality based on the self[/quote]Most religions have human being at the centre. Tell me, is christianity about self salvation or collective salvation? Christianity is between man and Yaweh.

The Coming of the Kingdom

20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’[a] For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”




As for Humanism, you are foolish to forget that while it starts at the individual, it also realises the effect of individual actions of society.


Altruism comes from individual actions that creates a better effect on society.


Simple commonsense but you wish to call humanism another form of satanism. Feel free to indulge in your slander like a pig in its own dirt

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Lol your comprehension ability is poor. No one is saying that John Gray is a humanist[/quote]Did I say that he is a humanist or a voice on humanism?

Why should Grays opinions be of significance?


Many here have pointed out the issues with such a stance.

Gray is now the leading voice of humanism and science for Anony and Enigma.


Keep the fallacy going!

[quote author=Mr_Anony]LOL typical of you to pull out your C.V. By the way I thought atheism was simply disbelief in deity, are there other things to know?

Perhaps there are rules of atheism or a code of conduct or an atheist creed/initiation rituals or is there now a school of atheism where one goes to study to become a professor of atheism?

You amuse me.[/quote]Yes it is a simple disbelief in God. But humanism? Not so simple for you as you keep failing on its premise


The point is that you can never accuse me of knowing nothing about christianity or islam but can accuse you of being ignorant about humanism

A nice thread for you,Mr Anony;

https://www.nairaland.com/1022069/atheists-humanists-no-morals-mr

I want to know since you have compared secular humanism to satanism and have also said that atheists do not have the moral ground to judge pastors or MOGs.


[quote author=Mr_Anony]First of all, not every pastor is failing. But then, the reason why pastors can fail is because they have a code of conduct by which they are judged by.
An atheist/agnostic has no such code of conduct. How can a man fail if he doesn't first rise?[/quote]

[quote author=Mr_Anony]lol....You have done nothing but lie and spread nonsense on this forum about christianity and islam. Two things you know nothing about.

My friend, accusations can go both ways. We can either argue logically or resort to ad hominem. I see you prefer the latter to the former.[/quote]Epic fail. Christian (catholic) for 22 years. 2 years anglican. 3 years in a baptist school. 1 year working with an islamic leader


I know a lot about islam and christianity.



Unlike you, who knows nothing of humanity and atheism. Tell me how humanism is closely related to satanism? Liar