₦airaland Forum

YourMain:
No I'm not. The bible asks you to punish your child when they do wrong. Even by beating. But your child is a human that has sinned and so are you. Where is the " let who without sin cast the stone first" coming in here ?

spear not the rod meaning you must teach your child good moral behavior, use your common sense, I cannot write a 2HD on a 3HD screen. Their are Law in place to dealt with crime,everyone knows the measure of this crime. any parents who commit the same sin their children commit ,they wast no time in condemning
Their children, they are hypocrites.

Biblical speaking, Jesus was dealing with hypocrites who hide their sins but are in a hurry to condemned others. ‘Do not commit adultery,’ do you commit adultery?” . In other words, no person is qualified to call attention to another’s sin when that individual is in the ongoing practice of the same sin. Again, as Jesus previously declared, “Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother’s eye” (Matthew 7:5).

No wonder!!! Type world most terror prophet in google and you will see who's that person is.

YourMain:
Your answer seems like a no to me. You're claiming that God has given us no right as humans to punish someone when they've done something wrong ? Yes or no ?

you are mixing the moral law of God and our civil law.

YourMain:
Ehm. No offence. We still haven't cleared the issue on this your God. But never the less. Are you saying as humans we shouldn't be able to judge people by their right and wrong ? And punish them accordingly ?

what issue is that ? Do you think God want us to stone adulterous to death ? Buried alive? Don't allowed religion turn you into a monster, their are civil law that guide us to live in peace with one another, the sharia law is not a civil law, the sharia law is a religious law.

Romans 3:31, “Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid

Empiree:
why not?

Is there such established Law by Jesus(p)

God promised to establish a new covenant of Grace in the person of Jesus christ :

Jeremiah 31:31–34
31 “The days are coming,” declares the
Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,”
declares the Lord.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with
the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will they teach their
neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”

In the old covenant, God is love and His love required justice, God punished everyone for the measure of their sins, but in this new covenant, God say He will remember their sin NO more only is they ask for forgiveness. This promised was fullfiled when Jesus came .

Hebrews 9:15
15 For this reason Christ is the mediator
of a new covenant, that those who are
called may receive the promised
eternal inheritance —now that he has
died as a ransom to set them free from
the sins committed under the first
covenant.

The laws and religious ritual you muslims are following are not reality they are a shadow of things to comes, and Jesus has already come and fullfiled it. The Law forestshadow Jesus, you do not need signpost AFTER you have arrived your DESTINATION. The law cannot make you perfect ONLY JESUS CAN. We are not following the latter of the Law, why ? Because the latter killed but the spirit give life.

BETATRON:
forgiveness isn't strange to muslims...justice demand you do what is right

The one who give the law in sharia is some1 with overwhelming piety and spirituality whose piety has reached such a level that he is perceived as perfect in the eyes of carnal men like ME not a crooked criminal who endangers the future of the nation

Like I said justice demand that you do what is right..for instance a lecturer giving both the unserious and serious student equal grades cause he wants them to enjoy the so called GRACE

The grace is for does who merit it...come to think of it why hasn't satan been given the GRACE?

I guess this your GRACE is actually sTrange to the rightly thinking Man

Romans 6
6 What shall we say then? Shall we
continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are
dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as
were baptized into Jesus Christ were
baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by
baptism into death: that like as Christ
was raised up from the dead by the glory
of the Father, even so we also should
walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in
the likeness of his death, we shall be also
in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is
crucified with him, that the body of sin
might be destroyed, that henceforth we
should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we
believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from
the dead dieth no more; death hath no
more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin
once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto
God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to
be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto
God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your
mortal body, that ye should obey it in the
lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as
instruments of unrighteousness unto sin:
but yield yourselves unto God, as those
that are alive from the dead, and your
members as instruments of
righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over
you: for ye are not under the law, but
under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we
are not under the law, but under grace?
God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield
yourselves servants to obey, his servants
ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin
unto death, or of obedience unto
righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the
servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from
the heart that form of doctrine which was
delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye
became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men
because of the infirmity of your flesh: for
as ye have yielded your members
servants to uncleanness and to iniquity
unto iniquity; even so now yield your
members servants to righteousness unto
holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin,
ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things
whereof ye are now ashamed? for the
end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin,
and become servants to God, ye have
your fruit unto holiness, and the end
everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the
gift of God is eternal life through Jesus
Christ our Lord.

Empiree:
You read me well, buddy.

you misinterpret rubbish.

Empiree:
you dont get it, do you?.

Okay, should nija govt forgo corrupt officials just because the govt itself is sinner?

ofcourse not, We are talking about the moral law of God and not the physical law or our natural law.

BETATRON:
yes because islam is a universal religion and encompasses all spares of life---and logic/justice demands that protect the citizens against corruption and some evil minded few

Natural man.? Yeah I am the carnal and natural one

By things of the spirit you mean allowing a criminal to walk free?elucidate please

will it be fair if a sinner condemned an adulterous man or woman to death ? Forgiveness is strange to muslims.

Empiree:
Keep deceiving yourself


What nonsense! This was explained to you early this year. The story of @underlined was a set up. Jesus(p) was not passing the Law (Grace as you called it). Rather he knew he was being set up and the woman brought fourth (to him) for judgement most likely did not commit the sin she was accused. Jesus(p) knew. Thats why he said @underlined. If the woman indeed committed adultery, Jesus would have passed the Law (Leviticus 20:10, Deuteronomy 22:22).

what

BETATRON:
lol..maybe you should place your argument before the legislative court and that they should allow corrupt criminals walk free and plaque the nation with corruption

Imagine what would have happened if adolf hitler wasn't brought to order, and we say "let he who hasn't sin cast the first stone" allow Him to enjoy the grace

you talk like this because you are the natural man, the natural man received not the thing of the spirit. Their are physical law and the moral law of God, the muslims support sharia law with quranic verse.

YourMain:
What commandments are these ?

it call Grace. You muslims implement sharia law, in this law, a sinner can judge a sinner by sentencing him or her to death, Jesus say " he who is without sin should cast the first stone" can any of this muslims judges claims to never have commit sin ? You ignored the grace of God by implementing sharia law.

YourMain:
I'm a Muslim.
I love Jesus too

Do you know the reply Jesus will give you ?
John 14:15 IF you love Me, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.

Op, you remind me of this topic.
https://www.nairaland.com/2184390/11-signs-monster-pastor

Nicknames for monster pastors include:
dictator, authoritarian and control freak.
Biblically speaking, they may be false
teachers, greedy for selfish gain, deceitful workmen and ravenous wolves. They specialize in hijacking
congregations and then abusing their
power. Monster pastors have little regard for the sheep (or the Chief Shepherd for that matter). Instead, their first priority is self, masked by other agendas.Such pastors may use pressure tactics, political maneuvering, and/or persuasive speech in order to manipulate a congregation into acting on their behalf. When they don't get their way, monster pastors usually 1) move on to another church, 2) cause a stir in their current church and/or 3) blame the congregation for not following their lead. Simply put,monster pastors are building their own kingdom rather than Christ's kingdom.

THIS ARE THE 11 SIGN TO KNOW A
MONSTER PASTOR>>>>
1. Are always right and never wrong.
2. Cannot accept criticism without
becoming defensive.
3. Are not willing to share the pulpit.
4. Do not support other ministries.
5. Overly use the personal pronoun, "I."
6. Resist accountability.
7. Feels threatened by former pastors.
8. Surround themselves with "yes men"
rather than edifying leaders.
9. Do not entrust ministry to other
leaders.
10. Undermine programs that they
cannot control.
11. Insist that everything in the church
run through them.
I tell you the truth,if your pastor are
amoung this category,you should be very careful. Peace.

tartar9:
pathetic explanation.how are corners and geographical poles related?
corner definition:the point or area where two lines, edges, or sides of something meet

What these four "corners" refer
to are the points of the compass , north,
south, east, and west. In reality, the
Hebrew word has nothing to do with
corners at all. Some of the newer translations use the word "quarters" .

The verse was for apostates, apostates are people who knows the truth but INTENTIONALLY reject it, they received not the truth, the book of Timothy say ;

2 Timothy 4:4
They will turn their ears away from the
truth and turn aside to myths.

and their punishment was:

2 Thessalonians 2:11
For this reason God sends them a
powerful delusion so that they will
believe the lie.

Jesus described this type of people in the parable of the sower, they received the Gospel with joy but the cares of the world choke it and the word became unfruitfull to them.

Matthew 13:18–23
The Parable of the Sower Explained
18 “Hear then the parable of the sower:
19 When anyone hears the word of the
kingdom and does not understand it,
the evil one comes and snatches away
what has been sown in his heart. This is
what was sown along the path. 20 As for
what was sown on rocky ground, this is
the one who hears the word and
immediately RECEIVES IT WITH JOY, 21 yet he has NO ROOT in himself,but
endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away. 22 As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the CARES OF THE WORLD AND THE DECEITFULNESS OF RICHES CHOKE THE WORD ,and it proves UNFRUITFUL. 23 As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case va hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.”

They sin willfully because they received not the truth after they have believe in it in the first place.

plaetton:
Lol.
Doesn't get it.

"...it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment." Hebrews 9: 27

plaetton:
No doubts, I am a big influence in her life, as she is in mine.That's the way it's suppose to be.

For example, during a discussion one day, I reminded her that billions of humans have come gone since Jesus supposedly promised to come within a generation 2000 yrs ago.
When it hit her that this scam has been going on for 2000 solid years, we both enjoyed a big long laugh.

that's a prophecy pleatton, people died before the coming of Jesus mean their world end there, the bible put it this way, After death comes judgment. Please show her my reply to your question.

Joshuabase:
The religious fear Death, the true nature of reality and fear of having no sense of purpose.

I have no fears.

now that you are into atheism, you do not fear death?
If you want to relieve your fears about
death, you should try to determine if
Christianity is true or false, which is what atheists are doing. If you fear death, yet believe that God does not exist, then you are being irrational.Then again, maybe you uncertain whether death is the end of your existence. Are you ready to die? Kingebuka and I have create threads similar to this.

Joshuabase:
Simpler terms - space and quantum fields = infinite (existed forever no known way to create it)

Matter and energy, = finite (it can be created from quantum fields and vaporized into nothing at the quantum scale)

space exist forever ? I thought you said in one of your post, the big bang began with a SINGULARITY ? Meaning the big bang cause the expansion?

Any how you twist it my good friend, one the for sure, there was a ZERO event, which NOTHING exist, as per christians point of view God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. I do not believe that
presenting a viable naturalistic model
of the origin of the universe disproves
God’s existence. Thank you.

Joshuabase:
Fear is synonymous with religion

in religion, what do you fear ?

plaetton:
Take my wife for example.
She questions, and sometimes ridicules some of the things that she grew up to believe.

But yet, she is so fearful of completely letting go of the very same beliefs.

what are the questions she asks? Hope you are not manipulating her ? (sorry if I sound rude)

Joshuabase:
No, the law of gravity proves all the matter in the universe came from nothing. (technically fluctuations in the quantum fields)

Nothing causes these fluctuations, they just happen of their own Accord, the big bang created 99.89% of all the matter in the universe today. What created the remaining 11%? Quantum field fluctuations that happen randomly everyday, everywhere in all parts of observable space.

that the universe came out from nothing is not a scientifically proven fact, the fact that time began to exist to together with cause and effect, meaning anything that exist prior to the material universe is logically flawed, if I may ask , how does this matter exist in the absence of the material universe ?

Joshuabase:
So first you establish a law,
"something can't come from nothing"

Only to later break that law

"something can come from nothing through divine intervention"

. Wtf!!! I give up

so, are you saying the law of gravity caused the universe or what ?

PastorAIO:
I can concede that the Jews know their prophecy more than I do.

But the question is .... Will YOU accept that the Jews know their prophecy more than you do? Would you? From there we can continue.

yes, I do not know the Messianic prophecy more than the Jews but one thing is certain, the Jews are still waiting for the messiah. What does this have to do with the names you mention ? Read here http://www.jewfaq.org/m/mashiach.htm tell me what you understand , and then we will continue, when you understand this prophecy of the Jews we are talking.

PastorAIO:
Do you know how many Messiahs there are in the bible? King Saul was Messiah. King David was Messiah. Even the foreign King of Persia, King Cyrus, the king of kings and lord of lords was a Messiah.

Messiah simply means the anointed one.

Saying Messiah is fundamental to judaism is like saying Bishops are fundamental to christianity. Important yes, but christianity is not based on bishops. Judaism is not based on Messiahs or in the hope of Messiahs.

Messiahs mainly become important when the people are oppressed and they are looking for someone to stand up and free them.

when they say 'messiah' the Jews know who that is, and they understand their prophecy more than you. Yes, All the kings in isreal are messiah, there is one messiah God promised, God say He will anoint this messiah Himself in isaiah 61:1.

Jeremiah 23:5-6 'The days are
coming,” declares the LORD, “when I
will raise up to David a righteous
Branch, a King who will reign wisely
and do what is just and right in the
land. In his days Judah will be saved
and Israel will live in safety. T his is
the name by which he will be called:
The LORD Our Righteousness.

The messiah is given the NAME of God
"The LORD Our Righteousness."

Micah 5:2 But thou, Beth-lehem
Ephrathah, which art little to be
among the thousands of Judah, out of
thee shall one come forth unto Me
that is to be ruler in Israel; whose
goings forth are from of old, from
ancient days .

In regard to His human nature, He is said to have been born in Bethlehem but in regard to His divine nature, He is
from ancient days. Their is NO way this messiah could be the names you mention.

PastorAio did you say the messiah is not one of fundamental belief in Judaism ? You are wrong, according to the Jews, the messiah is to restore the kingdom back to isreal, this make the messiah one of the fundamental belief to them.

You miss my points entirely, why will a creator create this large universe with
billions of galaxies containing billions of
stars, so that the proper elements of life
can exist on our side of the universe to
form life? And then put "a" God consciousness in us, set eternity in us and make himself unknowable to us ? Its is very clear that this God want us to know He exist as paul put it this way;

Acts 17:27
"God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us"

This is were we come to religion,God create man but man invent religion. The trouble is that if humankind starts the system, it is doomed for failure. Instead, God would have to set up the religion for humans to find Him. Which way is the truth ?

Agnostic ? No, agnostic say it is impossible to know this God.Pantheism? I don't think so, Pantheism see the universe as God, for that the universe has to be eternal, but Is not. Polytheism say multiple gods create the universe, the moral law and interlingent design indicate ONE God is involved.

We are left with monotheis( Christianity, islam and Judaism). Islam say if your good deed outweigh
t your bad deed,paradise await you, this mean it doesent matter the sin I've commit I just need to outweight this evil deed, why will God design the moral law and watch man break it so easily ?

In Judaism, there was hope and expectation that the Messiah would come to set the world right. Uptil now, the Jews await the messiah.

In Christianity, man effort cannot earn him salvation, it is only by the work of God, the bible say we cannot boast of our righteousness, why ? Because our righteousness is as filty as rags .

Just as I say before. Most religions say
Jesus was a great teacher or prophet. So focus on that great teacher. Until you do, God will remain a blur. Consider a worst- case scenario. Suppose another
religion were right and instead of following that religion, I became a Christian. Many religions would say the
Christian life is reasonably moral. So, according to them, although I would miss top spot, my life after death would be fairly comfortable. A few claim that if I ignored their religion, after death I'll cease to exist. I can handle that. Some say I'd get another chance through
reincarnation. That's not too bad. But, relative to almost all religions, Jesus increased the stakes enormously. If he is right and I ignore him, the consequences are unthinkable. In addition, unlike most other religions, Jesus leaves his believers certain that they will enter heaven. Other religions
typically place so many requirements on their adherents before they could be
considered worthy of heaven that their followers endure a lifetime of uncertainty as to whether they have met those requirements.

To determine if Jesus' teaching is from God requires divine insight. Whether God grants a person this spiritual
understanding hinges on a single factor. That critical factor,said Jesus, is your willingness to obey God (John 7:17). Why
should God brother to open your eyes to spiritual truth if you are unwilling to respond to that truth? Yet, few of us are
prepared to pay that price. It involves a willingness to relinquish our hopes and
dreams for the future, to forego our pet sins and anything else God may ask.
Such abandonment seems crazy until we consider who God is. The God who made and sustains the entire universe is the source of all knowledge, moral goodness and love. That means he is good, he is trustworthy, he has our best
interest at heart, he is wiser than us and he loves us more than we love ourselves.

PastorAIO:
What is the bias? A bias is to lean on one side of an debate more than the other. I told him that he failed to answer the question asked of him.

In fact all he did was ask the question again, but divide the topic into 4 sections.

He did NOT provide any method by which to scrutinise. All he said was 'scrutinise' bla bla bla. Meanwhile the question was, to paraphrase, 'how do we scrutinize religion in order to know the true one?'.

ps. I don't hate christianity but I hate lies, and fakeness.

shm

dalaman:
Christianity is true because of what? This is not a thread for baseless claims. Provide objective means through we can test your religious claims to know if they are true. This is not an indoctrination class.

alright, let us live Christianity for now and focus on one person, Jesus christ, you cannot deny the fact that most religions speak highly of Jesus christ.

"All religions are much the same."
That's what many
religions teach, so you have
nothing to lose by ignoring
them and concentrating on
Jesus, who declared that if you
don't surrender to him, you
have everything to lose (John
14:6; Acts 4:10-12). You and I are not in a position to claim to
know more about spiritual
reality than the greatest
religious teacher earth has seen
, Jesus.He upheld the
Scriptures which insist that all
other religions offend God
(Deuteronomy 32:16-20).
To ignore glaring differences
between religions might seem
broad-minded.In reality it is
about as conceited and narrow
as a person could get. To assert
that all religions are essentially
the same would be to claim you
are smarter than each of the
billions of people who see the
distinctive features of their
religion as critical.You would be
asserting that even though you
are not an expert in their
religion you know they are
wrong - you know their religion
is really no different. Jesus
made Godlike claims of this
magnitude but he backed them
up by living a perfect life,
walking on water, calming a
storm, multiplying bread and
fish, healing people born blind
or deaf or crippled, rising bodily
from the dead, transforming
believers for 2,000 years, and
so on.

Your decision about religion is
as serious as a starving person
deciding whether to risk eating
something which might be
deadly.To the casual observer,
wild mushrooms are all much
the same and who cares
anyhow? But when there is
nothing else to eat, it becomes
rather important whether the
variety you choose is
poisonous. And if you eat
nothing for weeks, indecision
becomes as deadly as the worse
decision.

plaetton:
Yap.

By the criteria provided by kingebukasblog, my Toothfairian religion should come out as the best and truest, a subtle point that eludes both you and him.

happy Christmas to you too, how is your family ? extend the greeting to your wife, am soo happy she believe in God. God willing,you will find God in Her.

PastorAIO:
He is asking for the HOW. The nitty gritty, the criteria. Your answer is like someone asks you: How do you get to the supermarket? and you are expecting 'go straight, turn the 3rd left and then the second right and it's the 3rd block on that street'. But instead you get 'By road'.

You see that the answer 'by road' tells the enquirer nothing and is no answer at all to the question.

Everybody claiming the right religion does so by 'scrutinizing' the tenets, concept of creator etc as you have mentioned BUT they all do it in different ways.

So we need to know HOW. What is the criteria? What are the steps and the stages?



You make arguments seem like a bad thing. This is a discussion forum where people with various opinions Argue/debate/discuss their various positions to arrive at a resolution. Unless, you don't want your answer scrutinized and debated against. That's okay, but just say so.

you are bias bro, did kingebuka told him to believe in Christianity ? He only ask him to scrutinize every religions claims. He even highlights the points for him. Dalaman reply was to attack Christianity. What is wrong with you people ? Even if you guys hate Christianity, try not be bias , people will listen to you guys.

plaetton:
He is not here to sell neither Islam nor Hinduism.

You, on the other hand, is trying sell yours.

He is selling Christianity indeed. Funny atheists.

KingEbukaNaija:
Scrutinizing :
1.The Tenets
2. Spirituality
3. Concept of the creator
4. Relationship with Deity/Creator - How a believer of that religion relates with his deity