₦airaland Forum

Unconditional Election is also known
as "Calvinistic Predestination." The
scripture teaches predestination, but
not Calvinistic Predestination.
Scripture predestination is where God
pre-determined, not the identity of
the saved, but the character of the saved. We are not opposed to predestination, for the scripture teaches it. However, Calvin's view of predestination is entirely unbiblical and therefore a false doctrine. Calvinistic predestination means that the future is already determined (predestined). The implication is that it doesn't matter what you do, it has already happened. You have no free will.

By unconditional election, then, Calvinists mean:
1. Out of fallen humanity God chose certain people unto salvation. God elects people.
2. The number of God's elect is fixed.
3. God does not elect individuals based on foreseen merit of any kind, including faith. Election is an act of God's sovereign choice.
4. God's election and calling are invincible.
5. The purpose and motive of God's election are His glory, "To the praise of His glorious grace!"
IDENTITY OR CHARACTER?
1 Corinthians 2:7, "But we speak the WISDOM of God in a mystery,
even the hidden WISDOM, which
GOD ORDAINED BEFORE THE WORLD
UNTO OUR GLORY :"
Ephesians 1:3-4, "Blessed be the
God and Father of our Lord Jesus
Christ, who hath blessed us with
all spiritual blessings in heavenly
places in Christ: According as he
hath CHOSEN US in him BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD
,
that we should be holy and
without blame before him in
love:"
How does God decide who will be His
children? The scripture says,
"...through Jesus Christ;" "...through
His blood;" and, "...according to the
riches of His grace." The focus of being "predestined" is more on "through Jesus Christ" than it is on us as individuals. It was God's eternal plan that Christ would give His life so that He could have children. Christ coming and dying was predestined.
Therefore, our acceptance of that and
our ultimate salvation in Him is also
predestined (the culmination of God's
eternal plan).
JACOB HAVE I LOVE ESAU I HATE?
The writing of the apostle Paul in Romans 9:8-16 is one of the most avoided and unread passages of scripture. Those who believe in
Calvinistic Predestination say this
verse proves that God elects certain
individuals, because this verse says,
before they were born, God loved
Jacob but hated Esau. Theologians try to position themselves so as to avoid giving a strait answer. The evangelicals will not talk about it. The reformed church apologizes for it. And the majority of Christian's today have not heard about it. This passage, on its face,
does seem to speak of predestined
individuals, but in truth, it is not speaking of individuals, but NATION .
Let us first quote this passage, then
we'll use scripture to interpret this
passage.

Romans 9:8, "That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the
promise are counted for the
seed."
Romans 9:9, "For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son."
Romans 9:10, "And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;"
Romans 9:11, "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God
according to ELECTION might
stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)"
Romans 9:12, "It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger."
Romans 9:13, "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."
Romans 9:14, "What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid."
Romans 9:15, "For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."
Romans 9:16, "So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."
Now, let's break this passage down
verse by verse:
VERSE 8: Not the children who descend from Abraham’s loins, nor those who were circumcised as he (Paul) was, are the people of God; but those who are made children by the good pleasure and promise of God, as Isaac was, are alone to be accounted for the seed with whom the covenant was established.
VERSE 9: "The word of promise" refers
to the promise recorded in Genesis
18,10, "...Sarah thy wife shall have a
son...". This is made clear by the fact
that verse 9 repeats some of this
promise recorded in Genesis 18:10.
This shows that it is the sovereign will
and act of God alone, which singles
out and constitutes the peculiar seed
that was to inherit the promise made
to Abraham.
VERSE 10: A Jew might object by saying, “Ishmael was rejected, not by the sovereign will of God, but because he was the son of the handmaid, or bond-woman, and therefore unworthy to be the peculiar seed;" but observe, this was not the only limitation of the seed of Abraham with regard to inheriting the promise. When Rebecca was with child by that one person of Abraham’s seed to whom the promise was made (Isaac), she went to inquire of the Lord:
Genesis 25:22-23, "...And she went to enquire of the LORD.
And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger."
That is, the posterity of the younger shall be a nation much more
prosperous and happy than the
posterity of the elder. This is speaking
about two different nations, two
manner of people, and not two
individuals (Jacob and Esau). Jacob
and Esau represent these two nations.
VERSE 11: As the word "children" is
not in the text, but added by bible
translators, the word "nations" would
be more proper; for it is of nations
that the apostle speaks, as Genesis
25:22-23 (from the above comment)
shows, and as the following verses
show, as well as the history to which
he refers.
VERSE 12-13: "The elder shall serve
the younger." These words, with those
of Malachi, "I loved Jacob, And I
hated Esau" (Malachi 1:2-3), are cited
to show that these words are used in
a national and not in a personal
sense. This is evident from this fact:
that, taken in the latter sense they
are not true, for Jacob never did
exercise any power over Esau, nor
was Esau ever subject to him. Jacob,
on the contrary, was rather subject to
Esau, and was sorely afraid of him;
and, first, by his messengers, and
afterwards personally, acknowledged
his brother to be his lord, and himself
to be his servant (see Genesis 32:4;
33:8, 13). However, in the former
sense, it is true, because the far
greatest part of Jacob’s posterity were
wicked, and rejected by God; and
Esau’s posterity were partakers of the
faith of their father Abraham.
From these premises the true sense
of the words immediately following,
"Jacob have I loved, and Esau have I
hated" (Malachi 1:2-3, Romans 9:13),
fully appears; that is, that what he
had already cited from Genesis
25:22-23 concerning the two nations,
styled by the names of their
respective heads, Jacob and Esau,
was but the same in substance with
what was spoken many years after by
the Prophet Malachi. The unthankful
Jews had, in Malachi’s time, either in
words or in their heart, expostulated
with God, and demanded of him
wherein he had loved them? "I have
loved you, saith the Lord: yet ye say,
Wherein hast thou loved
us?" (Malachi 1:2). To this the Lord
answers, "Was not Esau Jacob’s
brother? Yet I loved Jacob and hated
Esau, and laid his mountains and his
heritage waste for the dragons of the
wilderness. Whereas Edom saith, We
are impoverished, but we will return
and build the desolate places; thus
saith the Lord of hosts, They shall
build, but I will throw down; and they
shall call them, The border of
wickedness, and, The people against
whom the Lord hath indignation for
ever. And your eyes shall see, and ye
shall say, The Lord will be magnified
from the border of Israel" (Malachi
1:2-5).
IN CONCLUSION;
The Bible does teach predestination,
but not the kind that Calvinists teach.
The Bible does not teach that God has
decided ahead of time who will be
saved and who will be lost. We are
free, moral agents with the capacity
to accept or reject God's
commandments.
Predestination or fore-ordination is
what God did before the world began,
as He determined to save man from
sin through the sacrifice of His own
Son. Those who answer His call
through the gospel experience the
blessings of that plan now in Christ
Jesus. (Romans 2:3,11)

theAtheist101:
Nice one! So you had to result to emotion, because you want to win an argument? The next time you hear from/see god, please him when exactly is this time? I am getting bored of hearing the same thing over and over again. And if truly he created the universe, he should have given us the correct manual to it.

Goodbye to you also, though I still have some many questions about this last post.

if you think I chose to talk in emotion in other for me to win argument, you are dead wrong, I am doing what every man will do to his child/daughter, but if you chose to reject God, it's your choice.ask your question.

EzioAuditore:
What's the point of him dying (for our sins), only to get resurrected? Do you have any idea how barmy this sound?

dead in sin and alive in christ. Good day.

EzioAuditore:
Did he not already die for our sins? Chill, what does he want again? What's the point of dying for people's sins only to come back alive again? How can someone in his right mind believe this fraud?

Jesus died and was ressurected and liveth forever more Amen.

As a matter of fact, the song of solomon is not even a prophetic book, the name "God" was mention only one time. Very confused muslim.

God bless you chiedu7.
Concerning song of solomon;
The Muslim attempt to find
"Muhammad" by name in the Song of
Solomon 5:16 is a prime example of
eisegesis, of reading something entirely
out of context into a verse of the Bible.
The Song of Solomon contains beautiful
and sensuous poetry expressing
romantic love between a young man (a
shepherd 1:7) and.a young woman (a
shepherdess 1:. A key theme is that
marriage is a gift from God to be founded
on commitment and loyalty.
The young lady is describing her
husband's body in 5:10-16. Is it likely
that while enamored of her husband,
she would suddenly speak of another
man in verse 16?
Even if some Jewish pronunciations of
one of the Hebrew words sounded
something like "Muhammed," that is
irrelevant because it is not the sound,
but the meaning of the word that is
significant.
In that romantic context, the meaning is
certainly not about a totally unknown
man at the time the Song of Solomon was
written (about 960 BC). Muhammad was
born hundreds of years later (AD
570-632)! He was a man of whom the
shepherdess could have had no
knowledge whatsoever. And if she did,
she would not have mentioned it while
making love to another.
Muslims who allege that the Song
mentions Muhammad would not want us
to introduce into their writings something
entirely foreign and then base major
teaching of the Trinity upon that literary
distortion. If they would not want Jews or
Christians to do that with Muslim
writings, they ought not do that to the
Song of Solomon.
If Muslims need this type of fallacious
argument, there must be serious
concerns about whether Muhammad is a
prophet, ...
How much better for them to trust Jesus
of Nazareth who fulfilled the roles of the
final prophet, the one and only priest
offering himself as the sacrifice for our
sins and the king and Lord of all as he
triumphed over sin, death and Satan and
ascended to heaven where he was given
all authority in heaven and earth
(Matthew 28:18-20). See the many lines
of evidence to support his claims, listed
in Matthew 11:2-14; 1 Corinthians 15:1-7;
Hebrews 2:1-4. Then read John 20:30-31.
http://www.answering-islam.org/bible/commentary/ss516/gl.html

harakiri:
Seconded.

smh

theAtheist101:
Then I am forced me to ask: who created god? Why is time irrelevant to him, when he definitely used it in the design of the universe?
Is energy also irrelevant to him? How did he come to possess his enormous energy?

Since you believe the statement of Segan, that we are star stuffs. So, do you still believe the creation myth in the bible? Why are the stars he created dying/exploding? Is it a poor design? Where did you get your explanation to the creation of earth and the stars? Was it from the bible? Why did you use astrological findings to explain the universe, instead of the bible?

Now use that same science to prove his existence!

the reason you ask this question is because you see God as a type of superhuman,the bible is not shy to called other creatures gods, why? Because there nature doesent look like the one who can create this universe.

Science cannot look for evidence for God, God created everything including energy but one thing we understand is that a spirit do not need energy to exist, I do not create this thread for argument purpose, what I observ that what I wrote in the op, what I expect you guys to do is to look for fault in the op and tell me but instead, you guys are just saying different things. I am not a scientists but I study science in my secondary school days but due to soo much problems, I drop out, but that doesent mean I can study it online. I want you to rethink again about your faith, believe me my friend, God is telling me that our time on earth is up. thank you for your time

plaetton:
Yeah, that's same dude that thinks his jamb score is proof of his depth of knowledge and intelligence.

If he ever passed jamb at all, it obvious that he cheated.

greeting to you my atheist friend.

theAtheist101:
The chance that god exist is 1/infinity! I don't need anything to tell me that his existence is impossible.

The numbers you wrote shows that there is a possibility in those claims. Even the biggest of numbers are reached with due diligent counting. The big bang happened 13.8 billions years ago, and life on earth, relatively just started around 3.5 billions years ago, so it took the universe about 10.3 billions years to accommodate life. That to me is no miracle! It is just too slow a process. That is, permutations were happening then. Why did it take this long for an "almighty" creator to perform his "wonders"?

The main problem with the question is that it makes some assumptions about God that just aren't true. Many skeptics assume that instant creation demonstrates the power of God more decisively than creation over a period of time. One problem with this assumption is that the element of time is irrelevant to God. In fact, the Bible says that God created time along with the universe. Therefore, God is not bound by time, so that six days, six minutes, or six trillion years mean nothing to Him. It's not like He had to wait around for things to happen, since He is not subject to time.

According to Carl segan a renown scientists ;
The main reason why the earth was not
created until billions of years after the
creation of the universe involves the
nature of the universe at its creation. The
initial Big Bang creation event resulted in
a universe that consisted almost entirely
of hydrogen and helium. Obviously,
rocky planets are not possible in such a
universe. Heavier elements (including
carbon, oxygen and metals) were formed
in the nuclear furnaces of stars (hence
Carl Sagan's famous line, "We are star
stuff.". Really large stars burn quickly
and end their lives in spectacular
explosions, which distribute these heavy
elements throughout the local vicinity.
So, rocky planets (and living organisms)
were not even possible during the first
few billion years of the universe's history.
Even now, most stars are metal-poor
compared to our Sun (determined
through spectroscopy). So, the earth was
created at one of the earliest possible
times in the history of our universe.
Although many stars may be surrounded
by planets, rocky planets are likely to be
at least somewhat rare in the universe
(although we are just beginning to collect
data to answer this question).

johnydon22:
Lmao. . another of your naive analogies. . am sure i have told you before their is nothing like FAITH in evidence. . .when something is proven its no longer a claim that requires faith to believe but it will be knowledge. a certainty..

you have no idea what bible teaches about faith.

menesheh:
what then can be apply to God



anti matter ugh?

science cannot search for evidence beyond a realm were matter do not exist, if they can, I believe there would be nothing like atheists.

johnydon22:
Faith, that is where it falls. . . Muslims have faith that allah is real and they are fully convinced of this yet you doubt it, Hindus have faith that Krishna exists and they are fully convinced of this yet you doubt it...

I may claim a black flying diamond rabbit exist and believe with faith, this still doesnt make it true. its just belief and nothing more.

So you see; Having faith in a thing does not make it true. Your faith doesnt even make it probably true, having faith has no wieght on truth at all. Having faith simply means "You will believe anything even if it's not true..

read here, https://www.nairaland.com/2148108/christian-faith-based-upon-evidence
Bible did not encourage us to have blind faith, bible say we should ask question and be fully convinced .let me quote from the thread;
" Christians can be "case makers" precisely
because the Christian faith is an
evidential faith. When we, as Christians,
argue for the truth of the Christian
Worldview, we are not sharing an
opinion. There either is a God, or there is
not. Jesus is that God, or He is not.
Salvation comes through Christ alone (as
Jesus Himself maintained), or it does not.
This is not a matter of opinion, personal
preference or wishful thinking. The
Christian faith is grounded in evidence
that can be assessed and evaluated. The
Christian faith is an evidential faith."

menesheh:
Since the universe can't exist without something (a supreme creator), who then created the creator or did he existed out of same nothing too; while science is busy unraveling the Chinese puzzles of the existence of the universe and life in it, religious believers are busy ranting without even a single achievement to better the welfare of human.

nothing create God,He is the first caused, God is a spirit, a spirit do not need matter to exist, the law of caused and effect do not apply to God.

MrPresident:
@op - calm down, don't hurt urself ok? take a glass of water,

we are all going to hell in every other religion

it's a choice, you chose heaven or hell.

menesheh:
Same science Athiestic researches are the backbone of your daily life and dealings.




Your holy book laid unquestionably ideas and you solely believed it; while the questionable, reasoning open and modification allowed science is a bizarre and coward thing ever to believe in your own thinking.

Delusion is allow

Faith is a knowledge within the heart,
beyond the reach of proof . Which of the unquestionable idea the bible laid? The bible advice the believers to to be fully convinced of what they believe.

So I've been thinking lately about the
irony in atheists... and when I mean
atheists, I mean the ones that stick to
their guns, who try to define everything
within a material worldview.
From my experience of dealing with
atheists, I've seen them step into a pool
of ironic stupidity, think of this...
"The chances of gravity ceasing to exists
is 0000000000000000000000000000000000 00000001 %." If it did happen it would
be a miracle.

"The chances of the universe being life
permitting is
. 0000000000000000000000000000000001 %." Yet to them, it isn't a miracle?!?!
I don't understand that type of "logic."
On top of, how can they truly be "logical," or know that they are logical?
In their worldview everything immaterial has to be explained through material means..well then, how do they account for immaterial things that can't be found in nature, like logic? Where is logic growing? Which atoms in our head are "logic?" On top of why is that a universe with no objective purpose (i.e. heat death to all of the universe) should be life permitting? And that the universe should follow immaterial laws that an atheists can't justify like the laws of logic, and gravity?

On top of, they use the terms "free thinker" a lot but that implies that have
choice. In a universe where every
succeeding action comes from a preceding event (material determinism)
there is no true free will, or choice.
Choice within itself is an illusion and is
only the result of molecular anarchy and natural processes.

To me, it looks like atheism can't even get off the ground. What they define within their worldview "logic and reasoning," they can't even get off the ground. Their worldview is truly based upon Socratic ignorance and is philosophically bankrupt. Do they honestly believe this world is created by ancient chemicals, infinite luck, and blind chance? While I'm at it I may wanna bring up morals. First off, morals imply that we have a choice over the opposite (not having morals) which makes no sense because within their worldview there is no choice... Secondly there is no objective, concrete moral framework outside of the brain. In a practical sense, it's not that atheist can't be a good chap, or have some sense of ethics... it's the fact that all morals are a preference and are different from person to person, that's what true moral subjectivity is. The second an atheist tells another human what to do, they are being hypocritical and no longer consistent within their worldview. In short, an intellectually
honest atheist would be a nihilist who
says "I strongly dislike ______. or I prefer __ _______." But how about the ones that use things like evolutionary psychology, or humanism as objective framework?
Well first off evolutionary psychology
only explains what is, not what should
be.

I think i'm done but other than that I
HATE once atheists make the illogical
comparison of God to something like the
Tooth Fairy. What's really funny is if that were true then the disbelief of the tooth fairy would produce stupidity like above but it doesn't. Only disbelief in God makes one that stupid.
Atheist: "Science says it, I believe it, That settles it."to me, I called this "cowardice of an atheist"

1 Corinthians 1:27
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

RoyPCain:
how do you expect this narrow and long mess? muslims that start a conflict have gone against islam. forgiveness in islam has no equal; it it 7x7x7x7x7 everyday. you give reason o that you don't blame anyone instead of raising cain against him because of his action.

who are the true muslims? Thoes who act the way muhammed acts or thoes who acts because they are loving in nature ?

EzioAuditore:
Lmao! This post is really shameful! There's nothing sadder than when a christian tries to interpret or dissect islam! Honestly, when I read the post I burst into laughter! Are these dweebs really this clueless and desperate? Is this the best you could come up with? Muhammad slept on the same bed with his wife, he took a bath with his wife...lmao! Who told you that's not allowed when you're fasting? The only thing forbidden is actual sex! I swear these imbeciles never fail to deliver their usual dose of stupidity and naivity! Whenever they try, all they do is sh*t themselves! This post is a mockery of all christians' intelligence, you need to go back to the drawing board because honestly, this s*cks. Lmao!

the acts of muhammed is very shameful.

RoyPCain

Surah 4:24:
“And forbidden to you are married
women, except such as your right
hands possess. This has ALLAH
enjoined on you. And allowed to
you are those beyond that, that you
may seek them by means of your
property, marrying them properly
and not committing fornication. And
for the benefit you receive from
them, give them their dowries, as
fixed, and there is no blame on you
what you do by mutual agreement
after the fixing of the dowry. Surely
ALLAH is All-Knowing, Wise.”

If you are truthful and are very good in Arabic, you will notice a lie is told here,
In the Arabic Qur’an, the above verse does not
use the Arabic equivalent of the word
“marriage” (NIKAH) or any of its
derivatives. Instead, it uses the term
"ISTAMTA'TUM" which is a derivative of
the word “MUT'A” denoting pleasure or
enjoyment. “Istamta’tum” is derived
from the root m-t-a, which is also the
root for “Mut’a.” mut'ta is temporary marriage aka prostitution.

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62,
Number 52:
Narrated Jabir bin ‘Abdullah and
Salama bin Al-Akwa': While we were
in an army, Allah’s Apostle came to
us and said, “YOU HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO DO THE MUT'A (marriage),
SO DO IT.” Salama bin Al-Akwa’ said:
Allah’s Apostle’s said, “If a man and a
woman agree (to marry
temporarily), their marriage should
last for THREE NIGHT , and if they like
to continue, they can do so; and if
they want to separate, they can do
so.”

Which kind of marriage last for only 3 night if it not prostitution? And he permit them to end it or continue with it, (adultery) this is pure evil a shameful acts only satan is capable of doing this , how can such teaching be in the quran and hadith and yet interlingent muslims will ignore it? Satanic manipulation is going on, repent.

EzioAuditore:
If Jesus died for our sins, only to come back again to save mankind, did he really save us in the first place? Heck! Did he really die in the first place?

Jesus came to save mankind?from what? Jesus will come as a righteous judge.

RoyPCain:
@malvisguy212; read each of the verses and reflect on each about when it was said, who said it, etc prior to event of crucifixion or crucifiction.

there is no verse that remotely could be assumed is from Jesus except where it was being said this is my blood. and this verse and the other like it seemed to have been written after the fact has been established assuming that he was killed.

will be shed is a future event. but shed for you is past and it does not make sense to then be putting cup full of wine to symbolize blood already shed.

but on the pages of the bible we can read 'he cried to the One Who could save him and he was heard [his request was accepted as when he made a request about Lazarus].

Jesus told some Jews, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye
will do.... He that is of God heareth
God's words: ye therefore hear them
not, because ye are not of God." (John 8:44, 47). And later still, He told them plainly, "Ye are not of MY SHEEP" (John 10:26).

In Matthew 25:32-33, Jesus said He
would separate the nations "as a
shepherd divideth his sheep from the
goats." Those who are of the sheep
inherited the Kingdom, but the goats
were not allowed into the kingdom.
With all of this information, will we
conclude that those who are "goats"
and "not of God" but who are "from
the Devil," have salvation, when
Christ so clearly excluded them? The
answer is, "NO." So will we then
conclude that Christ did not die for
the "goats", but only for "His sheep"?
The answer is, "NO."
You see, Christ died for both the goats
and the sheep. That is the gift he
offers to all men, to the world. He
offers everybody salvation. But not
everybody has salvation. Only those
who accept His gift will become "His
sheep," and only His sheep will have
salvation.if you chose to reject the free gift of God, is your choice.

It took only a few hours, but it was
enough time for hundreds of radical
Muslims in Niger, West Africa, to destroy
dozens of churches and several Christian
homes. Ten people lost their lives and
hundreds were injured when Muslim
mobs went on the deadly rampage in
early January.
Now, three months later, Christians living
there are moving forward, determined to
still preach the Gospel despite the
dangers.
CBN News has obtained exclusive, never-
seen-before video of dozens of these
angry Muslims attacking, then burning
Pastor Musa Issa's church.
"They took pews, Bibles, chairs and
sound equipment then set them on fire,"
Issa, pastor of Bethel Horizon Church in
Niamey the capital city, said. "They did
this while chanting, 'Allahu Akbar!' I felt
so sad. I started to cry."
WRESTLING AGAINST PRINCIPALITIES;
The cell phone video also shows the
crowd beating a member of Issa's church.
"I feel horrible when I watch the video. I
ask myself 'Why'? Why did they do this to
us? What did we do to deserve this?'"
Issa said.
It happened January 17, just 10 days
after two Muslim terrorists stormed the
offices of French magazine Charlie
Hebdo, executing 12 people for
publishing satirical images of the Islam's
Prophet Mohammed.
About 3,600 miles away in Niger,
Muslims, angered by the cartoons,
attacked the country's Christians in
revenge.
"We spent years building the church,"
Issa told CBN News while standing in the
ruins of his church. "Within minutes it
was all gone!"
And it wasn't just Pastor Issa's church.
Mobs also destroyed Boureima Kimso's
church.
"SIXTY-NINE CHURCHES and 11 homes were
destroyed. That's a total of 80 Christian
buildings within a few hours," Kimso
said.
Kimso, head of the Alliance of the
Evangelical Churches in Niger, says the
viciousness of the attacks shocked the
Christian community.
In Zinder, Niger's second largest city,
attackers burned all but one church to
the ground. And in the capital city
Niamey, 45 churches were destroyed,
including Pastor Kimso's.
"Absolutely, it was premeditated," Kimso
said. "It was organized. It was shocking
because systematically in a few hours
churches were targeted and houses
attacked, so it means that someone
organized and executed this plan."
Three months later, the government of
Niger has still not arrested anyone in
connection with the attacks.
"I tell our brothers and sisters that we
don't wrestle against flesh and blood but
against principalities," said Kimso. "We
have to encourage ourselves because
persecution is part of the life of the
Church. There is no church that existed
without persecution."
In addition to destroying several
churches, the rioters also targeted
Christian schools.
CBN News visited one such school on the
outskirts of Niger's capital city. The school
was home to some 240 students, the
majority of whom were Muslim.
As the Muslim mob ransacked each
classroom, they left behind this message
on each blackboard: "There is no God but
God and the Prophet Mohammed is his
messenger."
RELIGION OF PEACE;
One of the teachers, David Bye, now
helps oversee rebuilding efforts.
"I think this message on the blackboard
they are trying to tell us (Christians) that
we really don't belong here. This is a
Muslim area and they want to keep it
pure for them. They don't want any
Christians here," Bye said.
It's an accusation Muslim leaders flatly
deny.
"Islam is a religion of tolerance and
peace," Boubacar Seydou, of the Islamic
Association of Niger, said. "In Islam, we
are not familiar with such acts of
violence!"
Seydou is also key leader at Niger's
largest mosque. He allowed CBN News to
attend and document Friday prayers.
In his first television interview since the
attacks, Seydou denied that Muslims
were involved in the attacks.
"Muslims did not take part in these
attacks. Sure, there were many Muslims
protesting the cartoons, but no one
pushed them to attack churches. I'm sure
if we arrested some of those involved in
the church burnings you'd discover that
in fact Christians were among those
taking part in the violence!" Seydou said.
Pastor Zakaria Jadi, whose church and
home were among those destroyed, says
it is ludicrous to claim Christians were
involved.
"The mob kept chanting over and over in
Arabic 'God is great!' God is great' as they
robbed and burned my home. I've lived
with Muslims all my life. I know a Muslim
when he stands in front of me!" Jadi said.
The Nigerien government is in
negotiations with members of the
Christian community to try and figure out
how on earth they are going to rebuild all
these churches. In the meantime, with so
many churches still destroyed, many
Christians are gathering in the shadows
of their burned out churches.
FORGIVENESS;
Pastor Jadi's wife Ruth, holding her
burned Bible, has forgiven the men who
committed this atrocity.
"My prayer is that they would come to
know Jesus and that the Lord would
touch them even in a dream. I want God
to do to them what He did to Paul the
Apostle when he persecuted Christians.
God touched him on his way to
Damascus. I want those men to
experience the same touch from God!"
That is Pastor Issa's prayer, too. Today he
spends time developing closer
friendships with several of his Muslim
neighbors who actually fought back as
the mob destroyed the church and his
home.
"When the first and second wave of
rioters came, some of my Muslim
neighbors stood in front of the church.
But as more rioters attacked with
deadlier weapons, it become too
dangerous - so I told them to let them
in," Issa said.
Pastor Jadi says the threats have not
subsided, but he's alright with that. He
believes God is preparing Christians in
Niger for great times of revival.
"The Lord is training us; He's building us.
There cannot be increase without
hardships. If you want to go to the next
level you have to go through hardship,"
Jadi said.

http://www.charismanews.com/world/49276-these-christians-forgave-an-unthinkable-muslim-act-of-violence

.

Rilwayne001:
hehehe

see the disgusting acts of muhammed here https://www.nairaland.com/2271492/how-muhammad-violating-quran-impunity

Rilwayne001:
2. Don't abuse, bully, deliberately insult/provoke, fight,
or wish harm to Nairaland members OR THEIR TRIBES.

Ishilove seun emusmith

very good of you to mention the moderator, let them see how you are editing people post.

Rilwayne001:
Here is the video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxSUYD5hF7A

when they convert to Islam and discovered the satanic manipulation in the quran, they will come back home.

truthman2012:
I'm not pained by any amount of insults muslims passed on me at all. It only shows the evil spirits in them. Afterall, it is people like you Rilwayne that make up ISIS al-Shabab, Boko Haram etc.

just yesterday, I saw a devoted muslim in the church,he sing praised to God and prayed. God is calling them, God is removing the crop from the weed, the" harvest"

Rilwayne001:
Fixed

lying spirit is in you.

RoyPCain:
@truthman2012: i accept the many wives as more than 1 is in the category of many. of course we are in the religion/pattern of our father Ibrahim [AS]. now show me the 'temporary wife' part because i don't see it and i can read arab which you can't. i can read english which i do and speak all day long, almost, until i call nigeria or fraternize nairaland.

Surah 5:87: “O ye who believe!
Forbid not the good things which
Allah hath made lawful for you , and
transgress not, Lo! Allah loveth not
transgressors.” (Pickthall)


Ibn Mas’ud, who is considered as one of
the greatest Muslim scholars, related a
well-known incident, which is recorded in numerous Islamic sources. This event will enlighten us on the historical background for the revealing of Surah 5:87. He tells us why Allah revealed this verse to Muhammad. Let us now review this account:

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62,
Number 13o:
Narrated ‘Abdullah (b. Mas’ud): We
used to participate in the holy battles
led by Allah’s Apostle and we had
nothing (no wives) with us. So we said,
“Shall we get ourselves castrated?” He
forbade us that AND then allowed us
to marry women with a TEMPORARY CONTRACT (2) and recited to us: ‘O you
who believe! Make not unlawful the
good things which Allah has made
lawful for you, but commit no
transgression .’ (Surah 5:87)


The quranic verse that validates the
practice of Mut’a Surah 4:24:

“And forbidden to you are married
women, except such as your right
hands possess. This has ALLAH
enjoined on you. And allowed to
you are those beyond that, that you
may seek them by means of your
property, marrying them properly
and not committing fornication. And
for the benefit you receive from
them, give them their dowries, as
fixed, and there is no blame on you
what you do by mutual agreement
after the fixing of the dowry. Surely
ALLAH is All-Knowing, Wise.” (Sher Ali)


You may wonder, where does this verse
say anything about Temporary Marriage. Most English translators of the Qur’an hide the true meaning of this verse. The above English translation, like many others, states, “YOU MAY SEEK THEM BY MEANS OF YOUR PROPERTY ,MARRYING PROPERLY .” However, this is a deception by modern translators. In the Arabic Qur’an, the above verse does not use the Arabic equivalent of the word “marriage”. (NIKAH) or any of its derivatives. Instead, it uses the term "ISTAMTA'TUM" which is a derivative of the word "MUT'A" denoting pleasure or ENJOYMENT. “Istamta’tum” is derived
from the root m-t-a, which is also the
root for “Mut’a.”

Compare now the above translation of
Surah 4:24 with the following translation
by renowned Muslim scholar, Ibn Kathir:

Surah 4:24: “Also (forbidden are)
women already married, except those
(slaves) whom your right hands
possess. Thus has Allah ordained for
you. All others are lawful, provided
you seek them (with a dowry) from
your property, desiring chastity, not
fornication. So with those among
them whom you have enjoyed, give
them their required due, but if you
agree mutually (to give more) after
the requirement (has been
determined), there is no sin on you.
Surely, Allah is Ever All-Knowing,
All-Wise.”

Many English translators of the Qur’an
know that the civilized world will be
horrified by the presence of such
teachings in the Qur’an. Thus, they do
some damage control to the uncivilized
teachings of Allah. They conceal the true
intention of the verses and distort the
true meaning of the Qur’an to suit
western audiences. They do this because they are ashamed of Allah’s teachings in the Qur’an and they seek ways to make it palatable. Surah 4:24 was revealed towards the beginning of the Prophet’s stay in Medina. By the time this verse was revealed, Mut’a had become a legal custom in Medina. It was looked upon as a kind of marriage and was referred to by the term “Istimta’a.” This term literally means, “To seek enjoyment.” On an occasion when the Prophet made a lesser pilgrimage to Mecca, the women of Mecca made themselves up especially
for the event. Some of the Companions
complained about the long separation
from their wives, and the Prophet
replied: “THEN GO AND ENJOY (ISTAMTA'A) THIS WOMEN”

cupid1:
events like talking donkeys, creation myth, joshua commanding the sun to stand still for a whole day(which is astronomically incorrect), and many more....unless these events have a hidden meaning which i seriously doubt. Y'all have to understand that religion was formed wen man was still looking for answers to his many questions and so myths and legends were spun

are you not the one that say there is a supreme being? The donkey cannot speak unless the supreme being command it to be, donkey don't just talk on there own unless a supernatural power is behind it.

What is your own account on creation?
Concerning the sun stand still for the whole day, scientific discovery is still going on. But I believe there are evidence, I will modified this post later.

Pr0ton:
But never equivalent.



So in order to avoid embarrassment, they lied.

They are related and yes,they lied, they are not christians.Paul calling was a 'refining by fire'