₦airaland Forum

sukkot:
no they do not exist. what is the jewish scripture ? is it not the bible ?

the early christians and Jews indicate he exist, Tacitus (c. A.D. 55 - c. A.D. 117) even talk about is crucified.

sukkot:
yes when the word of God is speaking to you that means Jesus is speaking to you. you have to remember that this bible is written in parables so that only a few people will understand it. this book is only for those who are called to understand it which is very few people. the rest of the people dont understand the book. i am trying to get you to be one of those who understand the book but it is not working

mark 4 vs 11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: MEANING ONLY A FEW PEOPLE WILL EVER UNDERSTAND THIS BIBLE BECAUSE IT IS A WORK OF PARABLES AND ALLEGORIES

PSALMS 78 VERSE 2 I will open my mouth with a parable; I will utter hidden things, <<< THE REAL UNDERSTANDING OF THE BIBLE IS HIDDEN TO MANY.

does that mean all the name of the people written in the geanology of Jesus christ does not exist? The Jewish scripture indicate this people exist.

sukkot:
GALATIANS 4 VS 22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. <<< SEE THE BIBLE TELLING YOU ABRAHAM NEVER EXISTED ? IT SAYS THE STORY IS AN ALLEGORY. SO IF ABRAHAM NEVER EXISTED AND HE IS THE FORE-BEARER OF THE CHARACTERS IN THE BIBLE YOU CAN START TO APPRECIATE THAT THE BOOK IS DEEPER THAN YOU CAN EVER IMAGINE. IT IS SYMBOLIC PARABOLIC AND ALLEGORY. IT IS NOT MEANT TO BE UNDERSTOOD BY BUT A FEW PEOPLE.

does that mean all the name written in the geanology of Jesus christ does not exist? The Jewish scripture and talmud confirmed this name exist.

EzioAuditore:
A demon? Lmao! A demon that preaches decency amongst men and women? A demon that forbids adultery and fornication? A demon that forbids stealing? A demon that preaches men to lower their gaze of women? A demon that teaches women to cover their bodies? A demon that teaches to destroy idols? A demon that teaches to love one another? A demon that teaches that there is only one true God? As for Muhammads revelations, when they started to occur, the meccans called him a mad man, they dubbed it an affliction! and when he performed miracles they called him a sorcerer! Hence why the Quran debunked such comments! What other explanation could their ignorant pagan minds come up with when a person tells them he receives revalations from the almighty and when he performs miracles? But the demon part really cracked me up! Lmao! Did the jews not call Jesus a mad man and a sorcerer as well? If you read some of the accounts of jesus by men who lived during his time you'd know that the unbelievers will say anything to discredit a prophet of the lord. Demon! Lol! Can't stop laughing!

do you know mut'a marriage in Islam? Is also known as temporary marriage, they will marry each other and after sexual intercourse they will then divorce, is this not prostitution? Muhammed approved it;

Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3243:
Abdullah (b. Mas’ud) reported: We
were on an expedition with Allah’s
Messenger (may peace be upon him)
and we had no women with us. We
said: Should we not have ourselves
castrated? He (the Holy Prophet)
forbade us to do so He then granted
us permission that we should
contract TEMPORARY MARRIAGE FOR A STIPULATED PERIOD giving her a
garment, and ‘Abdullah then recited
this verse: ‘Those who believe do
not make unlawful the good things
which Allah has made lawful for
you, and do not transgress. Allah
does not like transgressors’ (al-
Qur’an 5:87).

The above Hadiths show that Allah
revealed a Qur’anic verse authorizing the practice of Mut’a. In Sahih Muslim’s
narration, we are told that Muhammad
permitted his followers to “contract
temporary marriage for a stipulated
period giving her a garment” in return
for the enjoyment of s*ex they receive
from her . Alternatively, as the following
Hadith shows, even “a handful of grain”
is sufficient for the exchange.

Muhammad clearly allowed his men to
use temporary marriage as a sanctioned
form of prostitution.

Imam al-Baydawi’s agreement with the
above statements can be read in his
famous book, “The Interpretation of Al-
Baydawi.” And on p. 108 he adds:

“The purpose of the contractual
marriage is the MERE PLEASURE OF INTERCOURSE WITH WOMEN , and her
own enjoyment in what she has
given” (p. 108).

You know what? All what you wrote , muhammed violate it, he did all what you wrote, I have no time now, I would've proved it to you now.

EzioAuditore:
Here you go exhibiting your ignorance again. We muslims do not worship the kaabah or its contents, it is a focal point for all prayers and since we do not worship its contents, what's your point? Did the muslims call the name of the idols? Did the muslims dedicate their worship to the worship of idols? Did they imitate how the pagans worship their idols? "Actions are judged according to intentions". Again its not the building or the contents that is sacred but rather the location! They called the name of Allah (SWT) the most high. Muhammad long before that told the Meccans that the kaabah should be dedicated for the worship of God. Again, you have no point here.

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 26, Number 675:
Narrated by Zaid bin Aslam: From his
father who said: “Umar bin Al-Khattab
addressed the Corner ( Black Stone)
saying, ‘By Allah! I know that you
are a stone and can neither benefit
nor harm. Had I not seen the
Prophet touching (and kissing) you,
I would never have touched (and
kissed) you.’ Then he kissed it.”

This is a very revealing statement coming from one who used to be a pagan. Umar’s conversion to monotheism was so absolute that he was able to make the above observation while his Prophet was actually venerating a pagan idol. The reason behind Umar’s reluctance in kissing the Black Stone is that the pagan Arabs also performed this same ritual.
However, Umar venerated his Prophet
and this eventually led him to venerate
the pagan idol. Ultimately, he ended up
venerating the Black Stone, Muhammad
and Allah.
Sheikh Sha’rawi, one of Egypt’s
renowned scholars declared in Legal
Opinions, pt. 3, p. 167:

“The kissing of the meteorite is a firm
practice in Islamic law because
Muhammad did it. You must not
ask about the wisdom behind that
because this rite is (an expression)
of worship in spite of the obscurity
of its wisdom.”

Islam’s single most important reason for
kissing the Black Stone is that, “Muhammad did it.” Ibn `Umar said: “Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) faced the Black Stone, touched it, and then placed his lips on it and wept for a long time.” Likewise,
`Umar also wept for a long time.
The Prophet (peace and blessings be
upon him) said: ‘ O `Umar, this is the
place where one should shed
tears.”’ (Reported by Al-Hakim who
considers it a sound Hadith with a
sound chain of authorities) Source:
IslamOnline.

Muhammad touched and kissed the
Black stone. He “placed his lips on it
and wept for a long time.” If this is not
idolatry, then what is it? In view of his
pagan past, Muhammad needed
something tangible that connects him to
Allah. Thus, he submitted to idolatry.
That is why he also stated that the Black
Stone “is the place where one should
shed tears.” And Umar gave in to blind
allegiance. What Muslims failed to take
into consideration is that kissing and
caressing stone objects were an integral
part of the worship that the Arab pagans rendered to their idols.
Like Umar, many Muslims blindly follow
Muhammad in their veneration of this
pagan idol. Historically, Muslims cannot
deny the fact that the Black Stone was
one among the many stones and idols
venerated at the Ka’ba by the pre-Islamic pagans. The Black Stone was kissed during pre-Islamic pagan worship and it is this same stone that Muslims are kissing today when they visit Mecca.
Muslims are kissing a stone that was
previously used in idolatry. Muslims
have no reasons to justify this act of
idolatry other than it was done by
Muhammad. What divine knowledge or
spiritual experience can come from
venerating an inanimate object which
admittedly is a simple meteorite?

Here what the true God say concerning this pagan worship of muslims;
Deuteronomy 4:19 clearly states:
“You must not raise your eyes to the
heavens and indeed see the SUN and
the MOON and the STARS, all the army
of the heavens, and actually get
seduced and bow down to them.”

EzioAuditore
During the early stages of his prophetic
career in Mecca, Muhammad and his
followers prayed towards Jerusalem.
Even after their migration (hijra) to
Medina, Muslims continued with this
practice for about sixteen to seventeen
months. Islamic sources such as the
Qur’an, Sira and Tafsir, speak of the
change of Qiblah (Kiblah), from the
former Qiblah (Jerusalem) to the new
Qiblah (Mecca). Thus, Islam’s Qiblah was
originally towards Jerusalem. It is only
when Muhammad desired to pray
towards the Ka’ba in Mecca that Allah, as usual, obliged and revealed the following Qur’anic verse:

Surah (Al-Baqarah) 2:144: “We see
the turning of thy face for guidance to
the heavens: now shall We turn thee
to a Qibla that shall please thee.
Turn then Thy face in the direction
of the sacred Mosque : Wherever ye
are, turn your faces in that
direction.” (Yusuf Ali)

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2,
Number 39:
Narrated By Al-Bara’ (bin ‘Azib): When
the Prophet came to Medina, he
stayed first with his grandfathers or
maternal uncles from Ansar. He
offered his prayers facing Baitul-
Maqdis (Jerusalem) for sixteen or
seventeen months, but he wished
that he could pray facing the Ka’ba
(at Mecca). The first prayer which he
offered facing the Ka’ba was the ‘Asr
prayer in the company of some
people. Then one of those who had
offered that prayer with him came
out and passed by some people in a
mosque who were bowing during
their prayers (facing Jerusalem). He
said addressing them, “By Allah, I
testify that I have prayed with Allah’s
Apostle facing Mecca (Ka’ba).” Hearing
that, those people changed their
direction towards the Ka’ba
immediately. Jews and the people of
the scriptures used to be pleased to
see the Prophet facing Jerusalem in
prayers but when he changed his
direction towards the Ka’ba, during
the prayers, they disapproved of it.
Al-Bara’ added, “Before we changed
our direction towards the Ka’ba
(Mecca) in prayers, some Muslims
had died or had been killed and we
did not know what to say about them
(regarding their prayers.) Allah then
revealed: And Allah would never
make your faith (prayers) to be lost
(i.e. the prayers of those Muslims
were valid).'” (2:143).

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8,
Number 392:
Narrated Bara’ bin ‘Azib: Allah’s
Apostle prayed facing Baitul-
Maqdis for sixteen or seventeen
months but he loved to face the
Ka’ba (at Mecca) so Allah revealed:
“Verily, We have seen the turning of
your face to the heaven!” ( Surah 2 Al-
Baqarah 144) So the Prophet faced
the Ka’ba and the fools amongst the
people namely “the Jews” said,
“What has turned them from their
Qibla (Bait-ul-Maqdis) which they
formerly observed” (Allah revealed):
“Say: ‘To Allah belongs the East and
the West. He guides whom he will to a
straight path’.” ( Surah 2 Al-Baqarah
142).

Why did Muhammad express a desire to pray facing the Ka’ba while it remained a pagan shrine? At the time when Surah 2:144 was revealed to change the Qiblah from Jerusalem to Mecca, the Ka’ba was still a pagan shrine housing 360 pagan idols. Why would Allah permit his Prophet to bow towards the Ka’ba while it was still polluted with 360 pagan idols?
The command given in the Qur’an to
change the Qiblah predates by years the conquest of Mecca. Those idols were
destroyed only after the conquest of
Mecca. Thus, during all those intervening years, between the time the Qiblah was changed towards the Ka’ba and the conquest of Mecca, whenever
Muhammad faced the Ka’ba to pray, the
Ka’ba remained a shrine of idol- worship.
This is not an insignificant matter in
terms of worship. Why was Muhammad
not commanded to wait until the removal of those idols? Why did Allah submit to Muhammad’s desire and as a result make it a requirement for the early Muslims to bow towards the direction of the pagan idols, whenever they approach him in prayer during all those intervening years? Did not Allah say, “To Allah belongs the East and the West”?Why, then must the prayers of the Muslims be directed towards the pagan shrine in order to reach the ears of Allah? Notice the commanding tone of Allah in Surah 2:144:

“Wherever ye are, turn your faces in
that direction.”

The following Hadith clearly shows that
the idols were destroyed only after the
conquest of Mecca which took place
several years later after the Qiblah was
changed towards the Ka’ba.

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59,
Number 583:
Narrated By Abdullah: When the
Prophet entered Mecca on the day of
the Conquest, there were 360 idols
around the Ka’ba.

You need more proof?

EzioAuditore:
This not the matter of deliverance or brain washing, when this sort of arguments happen, you have to back up your claims with facts! That's all I have done but that's all you've failed to do! I really want you to please rethink about my post about Horus! The ONE EYED SUN GOD! you go to church on SUNday, pictures of Jesus always comes with a SUN! There are 15 pagan gods that have been supposedly crucified and they all came before Jesus! I am focusing on HORUS because of the ONE EYE part of his myth and he shares more similarities than any other He was born of a Virgin, same number of disciples! The whole shabang! Same as the Jesus Christ you worship! Remember they all CAME BEFORE JESUS! This is what the prophet tells us about the anti Christ, this is a description that no other prophet before him gave.


The Prophet said, “No prophet was sent but that he warned his followers against the one-eyed liar (Ad-Dajjal). Beware! He is blind in ONE EYE and your Lord is not so, and there will be written between his (Ad-Dajjal’s) eyes (the word) Kafir (i.e., disbeliever).” (This Hadith is also quoted by Abu Huraira and Ibn ‘Abbas).


This can't be a coincidence!

you can believe a lie, did the quran not mention the virgin birth? Should we say the quran copied it from the pagans? As a matter of facts Islam is the continuation of pagan religion. All what you wrote are without scripture backing. But let me support my claimed from quran and hadith that say muhammed retain the pagan worship system;

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60,
Number 23:
Narrated By ‘Asim bin Sulaiman: I
asked Anas bin Malik about Safa and
Marwa (i.e. two mountains at Mecca).
Anas replied, “WE USED TO CONSIDER
(i.e. going around) THEM A CUSTOM OF THE PRE-ISLAMIC a custom
of the Pre-Islamic period of
Ignorance, so when Islam came, we
gave up going around them. Then
Allah revealed, ‘Verily, Safa and
Marwa (i.e. two mountains at
Mecca) are among the Symbols of
Allah. So it is not harmful of those
who perform the Hajj of the House
(of Allah) or perform the Umra to
ambulate (Tawaf) between
them.’” ( Surah 2:158) [End of Quote]
Surah 2:158: “Lo! (the mountains) As-
Safa and Al-Marwah are among the
indications of Allah. It is therefore no
sin for him who is on pilgrimage to
the House (of Allah) or visiteth it, to
go around them ( as the pagan
custom is).” (Pickthall)
How can the very same two mountains
that were sacred to the pagans become
the “Symbols of Allah” all of a sudden?
Moreover, how is it that the very same
pagan ritual of running between the two
hills is also retained in Islam? In
addition, why was the Arab pagan ritual
of going around the Ka’ba seven times,
also retained in Islam?
In the Hindu marriage rite of Saptapadi,
the married couple circumnavigate the
fire seven times. In the Islamic ritual of
Tawaf, Muslims also circumnavigate the
Ka’ba seven times. In both of these
rituals, religious phrases are repeated
during the circumambulation. Some of
the rituals that Muslims follow during the
Hajj are the same as the rites observed
by Hindus in their worship of Shiva. Take
note of some of the striking similarities:
(1) Both Hindu and Muslim male
devotees are required to shave their
heads during their pilgrimage.
(2) And similar to their Hindu
counterparts, male Muslim pilgrims are
also required to dress in a garment
consisting of two sheets of white cloth.
This type of garment is known as Dhoti in
Hinduism.
(3) Just as the worshippers of Shiva
observe a rite in which they walk around
their object of reverence seven times,
Muslim pilgrims also walk around the
Ka’ba seven times.
(4) Both their objects of reverence are
Black Stones. In Hinduism, the Black
Stone is known as Shiva lingam.
(5) While Hindus drink water from the
Ganga River as part of the sacred rites in
their worship of Shiva, Muslims drink
from the Well of Zamzam during the
Hajj.
(6) Additionally, the Crescent moon,
which is associated with the Hindu deity
Shiva, is also a symbol for Islam. In the
Hindu portrayal of the Shiva symbol, the
crescent moon is always painted across
his forehead. Moreover, in every
portrayal of Shiva, there is always a
depiction of a snake curled around his
neck. Weirdly, in pre-Islamic times, Allah
is supposed to have sent a snake to
guard the treasures of the Ka’ba.

EzioAuditore:
"Among their brethren", the Jews and Arabs are brothers dumbo! Isaac and Ishmael, remember?

Moses also fought battles! Is he a killer too? Did Jesus bring any new laws? No! Muhammad did! Do you even read your bible? Don't you read all the atrocities Moses and his men were said to have done? Including killing children and raping 3 year olds? Shame on you!

And just because your pot bellied masters told you this refers to Jesus, doesn't mean it's so! That's just their blind way of interpreting it or they are just lying to you! Capital letter or not! I don't care!

So God came from Palestine? Prophets aren't holy now? What makes Muhammad a sinner?

The statement was made before Muhammad of Course! That's what makes it a prediction!

So you actually think the Jewish and christian NATIONS are different? Lmao! Even a christian would cringe if he hears that! Tell me when Israel and Israel became two separate nations? And when Jews and Jews became two separate people? This really made me laugh.

I guess of all the verses I gave, these are the few you could leaven try to defend! You failed horribly BTW! The others you ran away from you termed as nonsense because face it! You can't really defend them! How about you go and ponder what I have shown you so far! Remember these were all predictions! If Jesus was already there in some of those verses then why predict someone who's already there? That's just stupid. You can accept the true faith or you can go back to worshipping the one eyed sun god you call your God, prophet Muhammad (pbuh) did tell us that the anti Christ has one eye after all!

In Insanu’l Uyun as quoted in Mean’s
Haqq, page 346, we can read a report by Zaid ibn Thabith (Muhammad’s
secretary) saying:

“Once his leg fell upon mine, and, by
Allah, there is no such heavy leg as
was that of the Apostle of Allah…. As
often as the Prophet received
inspiration, it seemed as if his SOUL WAS BEING TAKEN FROM HIM, for he
had always a kind of swoon and
looked like one INTOXICATED .”

Mastery in the Qur’anic Sciences, by al-
Suyuti, 1:45-46:

Zaid b.Thabit said:“ When the inspiration came down upon
Muhammad, he himself became
heavier. One time, his thigh fell
against my thigh, and I swear to God,
I have never found anything that was
heavier than the thigh of
Muhammad. Whenever the
inspiration came upon him, while
he was on his camel, it limped, and
its leg was thought to be broken;
and sometimes it squatted.”

These forms of behavior were not
exhibited by any of the prophets of the
true God. And we can be very sure that
God did not send the angel Gabriel to
Muhammad. According to the definition
provided in a legal dictionary a character witness is a person who
testifies in a trial on behalf of a person
as to that person’s good ethical qualities
and morality both by the personal
knowledge of the witness and the
person’s reputation in the community.
Such testimony is primarily relevant
when the party’s honesty or morality is
an issue, particularly in most criminal
cases and civil cases such as fraud.

In many of the verses in the Qur’an, we
can read what the inhabitants of Mecca
thought about Muhammad. Those who
knew him best,his neighbors called
him a madman, a mad poet, demon-
possessed and a magician. He was
viewed as a bewitched poet under some
spell. His was not the impression of a
normal man to the Meccans, but that of a mentally disturbed person who often fell into a trance. Let us consider some
Qur’anic verses to prove our point.

Surah 10:2: Is it a matter of
wonderment to men that We have
sent Our inspiration to a man from
among themselves? – That he should
warn mankind (of their danger), and
give the good news to the Believers
that they have before their Lord the
lofty rank of truth. (But) say the
Unbelievers: “This is indeed an
EVIDENT SORCERER!” (Yusuf Ali)

Surah 15:6: “And they say: O thou
unto whom the Reminder is revealed,
lo! Thou art indeed a MADMAN!” (Pickthall)

Surah 17:47-48: We are fully aware of
what they wish to hear when they
listen to you; and what they say when
they converse in private; and when
the wrongdoers say, You are only
following a man who is BEWITCHED !
See to what they liken you to! (W.
Khan)

Surah 25:8: And the evildoers say,
‘The man you follow is simply
under a SPELL.’ (A. Haleem)

Surah 37:35-36: “For when it was said
unto them, There is no god save
Allah, they were scornful and said:
Shall we forsake our gods for a mad
poet?” (Pickthall)

Surah 38:4: They are surprised that a
Warner should come to them from
among themselves. They say, ‘This is
a magician, a great liar.’ (W. Khan)

Surah 44:14: Yet they turn away from
him and say: “Tutored by others, a
man possessed!” (Yusuf Ali)

Allah had to reassure Muhammad’s
companions:

Surah 81:22: Your companion
(Muhammad) does not suffer from
any mental illness. (Sarwar)

Even more disturbing is the fact that
Allah himself had to reassure
Muhammad that he is not mad or
possessed. Something must be seriously
wrong for Muhammad to be comforted in this manner.

Surah 52:29-30: Therefore, proclaim
thou the praises (of thy Lord): for by
the Grace of thy Lord, thou art no
(vulgar) soothsayer, nor art thou
one possessed. Or do they say: – “A
Poet! We await for him some calamity
(hatched) by Time!” (Yusuf Ali)

Surah 68:2: Thou art not, by the
Grace of thy Lord, mad or possessed.
(Yusuf Ali)

Muhammad’s contemporaries saw him as a demon possessed sorcerer who
fabricated scriptures. Naturally, all of
these Qur’anic verses are trying to prove
that Muhammad was not possessed.
However, in the process, the Qur’an
inadvertently reveals the opinion of the
contemporaries of Muhammad based on their observation of his behavior. Since the strange conduct of Muhammad is not denied in the Qur’an and the Hadith, Muslims try to explain away his actions by giving a spiritual explanation to it. But in actual fact, Muhammad himself exhibited fear and doubt concerning the manner in which he received his revelations.

The evidences from Muslim sources
themselves point to the conclusion that:
(1) The revelations Muhammad actually
received, did not come from Jehovah, the true God.
(2) The spirit that spoke to Muhammad is clearly not the angel Gabriel but an
impersonating demon that delivered
contradictory messages to Muhammad.
Muhammad was deceived and victimized by the impersonating spirit because he was unacquainted with the knowledge of the true God. Lacking knowledge, he believed every utterance of this spirit.
(3) The spirit that spoke to Muhammad
motivated him to commit gross acts of
wickedness and indecency. Please
consider the evidences provided below.

Abuamam:
Are you saying that 'Luke's' genealogy is more probable than 'Matthew's'? Ok. So we dump 'Matthew's' as being a lie.

'Luke' made an error also by adding Cainan to his genealogy. Do we dump the gospel 'according to Luke' also? Or do we dump the book of Genesis for omitting it?




Lol. We are in the 21st century, not xtian dark ages. Nobody today (except evangelicals) believes that the ACTUAL disciples wrote any part of the NT; just because their names were fraudulently appended thereto. The only books of the NT whose authorship can be guessed at with any degree of objective analysis, are SOME letters of Paul. And hard as he tried to justify his heathen amalgamation of Roman gods and reformed Judaism, Paul was NEVER a disciple of Jesus.
The Quran endorsed the TRUE disciples of Jesus (as), not frudulent 4th century monks passing off their writings as disciples.

NT genealogy is important in the sense that it is one more clue that shows off your NT as one big fraud (MAYBE with a few accurate sayings of the prophet Isa (as) here and there).



Attempt what. While sex is one of the pleasures of this world which will be magnified for us in the hereafter; just like food and drink; Our spiritual pleasure will lie more greatly in the perception of the Presence and Company of our Lord.

We do not follow the sex-guilt of middle ages leaders of xtianity. Sex is a natural part of life; and in Islam, having lawful sex with one's spouse is not only meant to be enjoyable for both parties, God will even reward Muslims for the act of lawful marital sex.

Go and gnash your teeth in frustration if you don't like it; while pondering your percieved fate of everlasting boredom; sitting on a cloud forever, fanning your wings, singing halelluiah and playing on your golden harp.

Back to topic of genealogy in the Bible, which you guys are trying so hard to derail.

what do you understand here?
" Luke’s 41 generations, spanning
more than 900 years from David’s
death to the birth of Christ about 5
BC., average about 24 years each, as
compared with Matthew’s 26
generations averaging 37 years
each."
Read this link http://www.kjvtoday.com/home/should-cainan-be-in-the-genealogy-in-luke-336

emusmith:
The Topic isn't there... You only gave the link.

https://www.nairaland.com/1999464/all-religions-lead-god-one
Or
https://www.nairaland.com/2196650/7-common-mistakes-young-leaders

Empiree:
This is how christian heaven looks like http://www.alternet.org/10-reasons-christian-heaven-would-actually-be-hell

Allah say a single pious man will be given the strength of hundreds men, . Can Allah’s reward of unlimited sex,
day in and day out, really satisfy the
spiritual aspiration of a truly God-
fearing person?

Abuamam:
1. There also seems to be 28 generations in Matthew and 43 in Luke; between Joseph and David; a 15 generation difference. At 20-25 years per generation, that would give a difference of 300-350years between the two.

2. Luke's genealogy also contains a glaring error. Between Shem and Abraham, he is clearly following the genealogy in Genesis 11:10-26. At one point, Luke adds a name not present in Genesis 11, namely Cainan.
This is Luke 3:34-36:
the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, the son of CAINAN, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech
Guess the holy spirit forgot it when inspiring 'Moses' to write up Genesis during the 40year journey.

3. Matthew's genealogy omits 6 whole generations. (note that if we add them back, point 1 above still stands, only with a 2.5 century difference, instead of 3.5)
These names are; AHAZIAH, JOASH, AMAZIAH, JEHOIAKIM, JEHOIACHIN (JECONIAH, AKA CONIAH), and ZEDEKIAH were omitted. So not only was Matthew (or whichever 4th century monk wrote 'Matthew') inspired by the holy spirit to miscount 13 as 14, he also misinspired him to claim 14 generations for what was; in reality; 19. ( cf.1Chronicles)

Oh well. Holy spirit mysteries.

Luke’s 41 generations, spanning more than 900 years from David’s death to the birth of Christ about 5 BC., average about 24 years each, as compared with Matthew’s 26 generations averaging 37 years each. The intentional omission of at least 4 names by Matthew suggests
the possibility that he may have omitted still others in the relatively obscure period between the Testaments. An average span of 24 years between a man’s own birth and that of his successor is far more probable than 37 years.

Abuamam:
IRRELEVANT. STICK TO TOPIC.

topic has been debunked.
None of you guys even attempt this.
https://www.nairaland.com/2263213/claim-god-advocates-modesty-sexual

Surah 56:22-23: “And there will be
HOURIS
(FAIR FEMALES) with wide, lovely
eyes as wives FOR THE PIOUS, Like unto
preserved pearls.
Can Allah’s reward of unlimited sex,
day in and day out, really satisfy the
spiritual aspiration of a truly God-
fearing person?

Rilwayne001:
Trust me, the dude will be back to give us this line @Underlined.

in Islamic home, muslims don't understand the nature of God,the name god is like a title to superhuman and in Islam we see how muslims are eagerly to appease there god to do work base theology,it is only in Christianity you see a God who want to have a personal relationship with his creator, muhammed died muslims lost communication with Allah, there only link is dead, that why muslims home don't encounter God, if you claimed to worship God who never revealed himself to you or show you sign, then you need to seat down and ask your self a serious question.

I am still expecting a reply to my thread.

EzioAuditore:
In heaven? Screw spirituality! Screw religion! We worked our butts off to go to heaven and you are calling for restraint? F*ck that! Best know this! Our heaven is a place of enjoyment and endless pleasures, and you rest assured that if by Allahs grace I make it there, I will hide the sausage in as many fish flaps as I can! I will drink all the liquor I feel like drinking! Blue balls will be a thing of legend for men! And I will plant mercy in a playpen around until I can't feel my dangler, if that's even possible. If I refrained from all this as I hard as it is here, why should I go to heaven and start thinking of restraint? What sort of heaven is that? Or are you saying you don't have a libido or urges? Are you even human at all? But tell me, what is the christians idea of heaven?

oh my God, is that how you think heaven is? You don't know what you are saying here.did you say screw religion? Is Islam not a religion?

Matthew traces Jesus’ ancestry through the ROYAL LINE, and does so with potential heirs to the throne following the Captivity, whereas Luke follows a
NONE-RULING branch of the royal family back to Nathan, another son of
David by Bathsheba.

Matthew, writing wanted to show Jesus’ LEGAL RIGHT TO THE THRONE OF DAVID . Therefore his genealogy begins with Abraham and goes through David and his son Solomon to Jesus’ LEGAL
FATHER, Joseph. On the other hand, Luke is writing primarily to Gentiles and the world and, therefore, wants to show
Jesus’ PHYSICAL LINEAGE as the perfect
man. So he traces Mary’s line back to
Adam through Heli, Mary’s father the
father-in-law of Joseph--and on through
David’s son Nathan. As a matter of fact Luke add some gentile name includes the names of women brought into the people of God Ruth, Thamar, Rachab, and Bathsheba (the wife of Urias).

Rilwayn step by step you will see proved that Jesus is the son of God.

EzioAuditore:
This honestly is the dumbest post I've ever seen! The fact that the believers are tasked to not fall prey to the false riches of this world because the riches of the hereafter out weighs that of this world is something you find suspicious? The maidens of heaven are given to reward those who guide their chastities in this world and refuse to engage in the false pleasures of this world. Rewarding the righteous in the hereafter with beautiful women is something you find questionable? What's the point of controlling your libido in heaven? Is it truly heaven, where pleasures are supposed to be infinite if such limits are set? This maybe one of the dumbest things I have ever read in my life, this malvisguy212 bloke has proven time and time again to be a clueless charlatan.

Surah 56:22-23: “And there will be
HOURIS
(FAIR FEMALES) with wide, lovely
eyes as wives FOR THE PIOUS, Like unto
preserved pearls.”
And the hadith say the pious once will be giving the strength of hundreds men.
Can Allah’s reward of unlimited sex,
day in and day out, really satisfy the
spiritual aspiration of a truly God-
fearing person?

Rilwayne001:
No they are not, one is from king solomon which is the valid genealogy while the other is not which makes it invalid.



Why should mattew trace the genealogy to Joseph when actually Joseph wasnt the biological father of jesus? or did Joseph ever had intercourse with mary to give Jesus? Who is the BIOLOGICAL father of Jesus?

And please don't tell me adoption makes him automatically a biological son oo



Show me with scriptural reference where Nathan was said to bring the lineage of the messiah.



Stop attacking Strawman. Please.

I like to hold discussion with reasonable peeps lik mr. Scholar and not robot like, hence the reason why I ignored your posts.

I'll still ignore you if you don't make any sense in your next post.

malvisguy212:
it is good you look into the Genealogy of Jesus ,before I start you should know this; Jesus was the legal son of Joseph but not the biological son of Joseph. This is important because God curse one of the king of isreal( Jeremiah 22:24-30)Jeconiah was an ancestor of Joseph, if Joseph was Jesus' biological father then Jesus would not be an eligible to inherit the throne of Judah. Hope you understand? Ok.
MATHEW1:1-17, read this link to know the Genealogy of Jesus
https://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Matthew%201.1-17
Luke 3:23-38: read here to the Luke account;
http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Luke%203.23-38
1. According to Matthew: Joseph is
descended from Solomon, the son of King David and Bathseba ( Matthew 1:6) while Luke seems to say that Joseph was
descended from Nathan, another son of
King David ( Luke 3: 31). After King David
the two genealogies diverge greatly.
2. According to Matthew: Joseph is
descended from Jeconiah ( Matthew
1:11-12). However God placed a curse on Jeconiah (Jeremiah 22:24-30). Jeremiah 22: 30: This is what the LORD says:
"Record this man as if childless, a man
who will not prosper in his lifetime, for
none of his offspring will prosper, none
will sit on the throne of David or rule
anymore in Judah."
Any descendant of Jeconiah would not be suitable for the throne of Judah. Luke's genealogy traces the line through Nathan, son of David.
However God's covenant to David that his descendants would have the throne of Judah was inherited by Solomon because he was the one who finished the Temple of God (2 Samuel 7:12-16). If Jesus did not descend from Solomon then he would ineligible for the throne.
Jesus was born of a virgin then legally
adopted by Joseph through marriage.
Matthew's genealogy traces his LEGAL LINE through his LEGAL FATHER JOSEPH. Jesus was eligible to inherit the throne of Judah because he was legally the descendant of Solomon and his offspring however he BYPASSES THE CURSE OF JECONIAH because he is not BIOLOGICALY A DESCENDANT OF JECONIAH.
Luke traces Jesus' BIOLOGICAL LINE . Heli was the biology father of MARY. In ancient times just as Scholar8200 say father- in-laws were considered as if they were
fathers. If Jesus was the biology son of
Joseph he would fall under the Curse of
Jeconiah however he is the biological son
of Mary but not Joseph. Since he is the
legal son of Joseph he is legally
descended from Solomon fulfilling God's
promise to David and Solomon.
Matthew traces the genealogy back to Abraham. Jesus is the seed of Abraham and the fulfilment of the promise God gave to Abraham ( Galatians 3:16). Abraham is a descendant of Shem (Genesis 11:10).
Shem was the son of Noah. If you reject
the story of the flood then you should
also reject the story of Abraham.
Allegorical characters cannot have real
life sons. If Abraham did not exist then
he could not have had offspring. Luke's
genealogy goes back to Adam. If Adam
did not exist then the whole line is wiped out.Genealogies link the different books of Scripture together. It links the Old and New Testaments together.
Hope you understand!!! Now can you reply this thread
https://www.nairaland.com/2263213/claim-god-advocates-modesty-sexual

Rilwayne001:
No they are not, one is from king solomon which is the valid genealogy while the other is not which makes it invalid.



Why should mattew trace the genealogy to Joseph when actually Joseph wasnt the biological father of jesus? or did Joseph ever had intercourse with mary to give Jesus? Who is the BIOLOGICAL father of Jesus?

And please don't tell me adoption makes him automatically a biological son oo



Show me with scriptural reference where Nathan was said to bring the lineage of the messiah.



Stop attacking Strawman. Please.

I like to hold discussion with reasonable peeps lik mr. Scholar and not robot like, hence the reason why I ignored your posts.

I'll still ignore you if you don't make any sense in your next post.

did you read my first post? Go back and read it.Jesus was the legal son of Joseph but not the BIOLOGICAL son of Joseph. you are confused,infacte for the quran to used his mother name to adress Him proved my point here, the Luke account of Jesus geanology talk about His biological root which is Mary, they both are valid one talk about his legal father and the other talk about the biological root.

OAM4J, emusmith this thread belong to the Islamic section.

Sending prophet to warn sinner is a miracle? Or benefit to sinner? My good friend you are wrong.

^^^both account are valid, matthew trace the geanology of Joseph and Luke include that of Mary. So what else do you not understand?

Can you proved from the quran, muhammed is the descended of ishmael? The way bible present that of Jesus?

Rilwayne001:
Ogbeni, na only you waka come?? where are the rest?

Cc: Truthman2012, Ifeann, Pastorkun, True2go

it is good you look into the Genealogy of Jesus ,before I start you should know this; Jesus was the legal son of Joseph but not the biological son of Joseph. This is important because God curse one of the king of isreal( Jeremiah 22:24-30)Jeconiah was an ancestor of Joseph, if Joseph was Jesus' biological father then Jesus would not be an eligible to inherit the throne of Judah. Hope you understand? Ok.
MATHEW1:1-17, read this link to know the Genealogy of Jesus
https://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Matthew%201.1-17

Luke 3:23-38: read here to the Luke account;
http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Luke%203.23-38

1. According to Matthew: Joseph is
descended from Solomon, the son of King David and Bathseba ( Matthew 1:6) while Luke seems to say that Joseph was
descended from Nathan, another son of
King David ( Luke 3: 31). After King David
the two genealogies diverge greatly.
2. According to Matthew: Joseph is
descended from Jeconiah ( Matthew
1:11-12). However God placed a curse on Jeconiah (Jeremiah 22:24-30). Jeremiah 22: 30: This is what the LORD says:
"Record this man as if childless, a man
who will not prosper in his lifetime, for
none of his offspring will prosper, none
will sit on the throne of David or rule
anymore in Judah."
Any descendant of Jeconiah would not be suitable for the throne of Judah. Luke's genealogy traces the line through Nathan, son of David.
However God's covenant to David that his descendants would have the throne of Judah was inherited by Solomon because he was the one who finished the Temple of God (2 Samuel 7:12-16). If Jesus did not descend from Solomon then he would ineligible for the throne.
Jesus was born of a virgin then legally
adopted by Joseph through marriage.
Matthew's genealogy traces his LEGAL LINE through his LEGAL FATHER JOSEPH. Jesus was eligible to inherit the throne of Judah because he was legally the descendant of Solomon and his offspring however he BYPASSES THE CURSE OF JECONIAH because he is not BIOLOGICALY A DESCENDANT OF JECONIAH.

Luke traces Jesus' BIOLOGICAL LINE . Heli was the biology father of MARY. In ancient times just as Scholar8200 say father- in-laws were considered as if they were
fathers. If Jesus was the biology son of
Joseph he would fall under the Curse of
Jeconiah however he is the biological son
of Mary but not Joseph. Since he is the
legal son of Joseph he is legally
descended from Solomon fulfilling God's
promise to David and Solomon.

Matthew traces the genealogy back to Abraham. Jesus is the seed of Abraham and the fulfilment of the promise God gave to Abraham ( Galatians 3:16). Abraham is a descendant of Shem (Genesis 11:10).

Shem was the son of Noah. If you reject
the story of the flood then you should
also reject the story of Abraham.
Allegorical characters cannot have real
life sons. If Abraham did not exist then
he could not have had offspring. Luke's
genealogy goes back to Adam. If Adam
did not exist then the whole line is wiped out.Genealogies link the different books of Scripture together. It links the Old and New Testaments together.
Hope you understand!!! Now can you reply this thread
https://www.nairaland.com/2263213/claim-god-advocates-modesty-sexual

Scholar8200:
Another buttress to the issue of Genealogy is the fact that the sons of David mentioned by both Matthew and Luke are authenticated in 1CHRONICLES 3:5.

nice job brother.

.

shahydbinaliyu:
If muslims are terrorist, why is it that it's only Muslim countries that suffers from terrorism? why would a Muslim fighting for Islam kill a Muslim

muslims are fighting everybody, them self and other religion,when last you read in the news a christian attack a muslim in Saudi Arabia? But even in a christian populated nation, a muslim will still have the mind to killed christians and bomb churches. "love to the believers and ash to the unbelievers" Islamic motto.

This soppose to be the title of the thread , "MUSLIMS PROUDLY CLAIM THAT ALLAH ADVOCATES MODESTY AND
SEXUAL RESTRAINT IN HIS WORSHIPPERS."
But the mod will transfer
It to Islamic section.
Rilwayn,empiree ezioauditore

mhizpeaarl:
My hands are clean.. Anyone has the freedom to worship don't discriminate openly like DZ niccur

Romans 10:14-18
How, then, can they call on the one
they have not believed in? And how can
they believe in the one of whom they
have not heard? And how can they hear
without someone preaching to them? 15
And how can anyone preach unless they
are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful
are the feet of those who bring good
news!”[ g]
16 But not all the Israelites accepted the
good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who
has believed our message?”[ h] 17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing
the message, and the message is heard
through the word about Christ. 18 But I
ask: DID THEY NOT HEAR? OF COURSE THEY DID:
“Their voice has gone out into all the
earth,
their words to the ends of the world.”[i]

EzioAuditore:
Yeah I'd run too if I were you. You haven't answered a single question of mine! Not about jesus' similarities with pagan gods that came before him especially horus the one eyed SUN GOD and definitely not about how the bible contradicts itself when it comes to the story of isaac, ishmael and hagar. You also couldn't prove that it was isaac not ishmael that was almost sacrificed, nor have you justified the pornography in the bible. The verse below is meant for you and all who follow the path of your deceptive religion.

002:079
:
Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, "This is from Allah," to purchase with it a little price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby."

can you provide a single verse in the quran where it say the bible is corrupted?

However when we examine Islam, we
find that the teachings of Allah belies
this claim. One has to only look at the
incentives that Allah reserves for pious
Muslim men in the hereafter to
determine this truth. Provided below are
evidences exposing the baseless claims
by Muslims that Allah advocates
modesty:

Surah 56:22-23: “And there will be HOURIS
(FAIR FEMALES) with wide, lovely
eyes as wives FOR THE PIOUS, Like unto
preserved pearls.” (Hilali-Khan)

Surah 78:31-33: “But for the pious is
prepared a place of bliss: Gardens
planted with trees, and vineyards,
and DAMSELS WITH SWELLING BREAST ,
of equal age with themselves.” (Sale)

Sunan al-Tirmidhi, Hadith Number
3834:
Narrated by Al-Miqdam ibn
Ma’dikarib: Allah’s Messenger (peace
be upon him) said, “The martyr
receives six good things from Allah:
he is forgiven at the first shedding of
his blood; he is shown his abode in
Paradise; he is preserved from the
punishment in the grave; he is kept
safe from the greatest terror; he has
placed on his head the crown of
honour, a ruby of which is better than
the world and what it contains; he is
MARRIED TO SEVENTY-TWO WIVES OF
THE MAIDENS WITH LARGE DARK EYES ;
and is made intercessor for seventy
of his relatives.”

The Shorter Encyclopedia of Islam
states on page 141, under the word,
“Hur”:
“
When the believer enters Paradise
he is welcomed by one of these
beings; a large number of them are
at his disposal; he COHABIT with
each of them as often as he has
fasted days in Ramadan and as often
as he has performed good works
besides. Yet they remain always
virgins.”

Sunan al-Tirmidhi, Hadith Number
2459:
A man will have intercourse in
Paradise with his wives from among
al-hoor al-‘iyn and his wives from
among the people of this world, if
they enter Paradise with him. A MAN
WILL BE GIVEN THE STRENGHT OF A HUNDREDS MEN to eat, drink, FEEL DESIRE AND HAVE SEXUAL INTERCOURSE It was narrated from Anas that the
Prophet said: “The believer in
Paradise will be given such and
such strength for SEXUAL INTERCOURSE
.” He was asked, “O Messenger of Allah, will he really be able to do that?” He said, “HE WILL BE GIVEN THE STRENGTH OF ONE HUNDREDS (men).” (Al-Tirmidhi said it is saheeh ghareeb).

QUESTION:
1. If the claim that Allah advocates
modesty is true, why does Allah himself
encourage and arouse greedy sexual
appetite in his worshippers in
hereafter?
2. Why are pious Muslim men rewarded
with unlimited sexual pleasure with a
large numbers of perpetual virgins in
the Islamic heaven?
3. Is this not a contradiction to the claim
of modesty
4. Does Allah have a double moral
standard, one for the earth and
another for heaven?
5. Would the true God resort to sexual
incentive as a means to secure
believers?
6. Would the true God, wherein to entice his worshippers with sexual
propositions, actually inspire a verse
which says that in heaven they will find
women with swelling breasts?
7. Would the true God create a heaven
that is nothing but a sensual
playground for man to indulge in
sexual activities with multiple partners
all day long?
8. Would the true God seduce his
worshippers with promises of carnal
pleasure?
9. Why are the rewards of Allah, as almost everything else in Islam, directed only to the men?
10. Is orgasm the epitome of Islam’s
heaven?
11. Is this not an indication of a shameful attempt to recruit believers by a spiritually bankrupt religion?
12. According to the teachings of Islam
every Muslim man who makes it into
Allah’s Paradise will be granted
seventy-two Houris solely for the
purpose of sex enjoyment. How do you
reconcile your claim that Allah is
against lewdness with the carnal nature
of the Islamic Paradise?
13. If a certain act is considered as sinful here on earth, would not reason dictate that by the same unchangeable
standard of God, it would also be
considered as sinful in heaven – the
very dwelling place of God?
14. Can Allah’s reward of unlimited sex,
day in and day out, really satisfy the
spiritual aspiration of a truly God-
fearing person?
15 Is not Allah’s Paradise more of a
celestial brothel where depraved men
indulge in lustful activities all day long
without any moral restraint than a holy
place?
16. Can you honestly say that the
environment of Allah’s Paradise
discourages covetous sexual appetite?
17. Can you truly say that Allah advocates
modesty and sexual restraint in his
worshippers?
18. Can the true God be the originator of a place such as immoral as this or is it Satan?

Consider now the divine standard of
GOD:

Colossians 3:5: “Deaden, therefore,
your body members that are upon
the earth as respects fornication,
uncleanness, sexual appetite.”

We can be sure that this same divine
standard applies in heaven.we cannot accepts the Islamic Allah paradise claimed,it's a traps to captured soul for eternal damnation,BE WARN!!!

When Muhammad had doubts, Allah told him to seek out those who studied the Bible in order to clear his doubts.

Surah 10:94: “And if thou
(Muhammad) art in doubt
concerning that which We reveal unto
thee, then question those who read
the Scripture that was before thee.
Verily the Truth from thy Lord hath
come unto thee. So be not thou of
the waverers.” (Pickthall)

Those who read the Scriptures before
Muhammad were the Jews and the
Christians. They read the Torah and the
Gospel. We continue with our
questions:

When do you believe the Bible was
corrupted, was this before or after
Muhammad?
If before, does it make sense for Allah
to direct Muhammad to seek out those
read corrupted Scriptures to clear his
doubt?
If before, why did Allah command
Muhammad to seek guidance from
corrupted Scriptures to clear his
doubts?
If before, how can Allah say in the
Qur’an that there is guidance and light
in the Torah and the Gospels? (Surah
5:44-46)

EzioAuditore:
I assure you mate, there are no bigger liars than the christians, they embrace a strategy of selective morality and attack others but that method only works on the ignorant, you just need to read the bible to know their whole religion is a joke. When they accuse muslims, its becausing they're mistranslating or misinterpreting our verses but the bible is just a book of clear and crazy contradictions. A book mostly written by men can't be perfect afterall.


002:079 Khan
:
Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, "This is from Allah," to purchase with it a little price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby.

the reason I stop replying you is because you don't know how to debate,the op was discussing the death of Jesus, but you derailed the thread and know one report you. You ask one question and if you get your reply you turn to another question,you ask about Jesus and mithras and you get your reply and then you turn to song of solomon and we reply you but next you turn to ishmael and Isaac and we reply but all this while none of you even attempt to answer the op, do you think we will keep on replying you? You copy and paste long articles from anti-Christianity site .go and learn how to debate.

udatso:
Eh ya. Sorry eh. I can feel the sadness in your voice

okay.

udatso:
Mail the mods. Creating this thread here won't help your course. Even though this issue has been addressed countless time, you guys keep bringing it up

according to muslims, is there any issue that have not been adress?ask a question abou the quran and the answer you will get is " this issue has been adress" All issue has been adress!!! Today issue or tomorrow issue has been adress.


What the need of transferring thread in the Islamic section were no one will view it or reply it? Among All the forum I've seen, nairaland is the most bias of them all.