₦airaland Forum

Ugwumba:
What i find eternally entertaining about many of my yoruba brothers is that they are quick to condemn other tribes of corruption, but jump to the defense of their sons when accused.

To re-emphasize my earlier contribution:

PROOF THAT OBJ IS CORRUPT.

1. Read Gani's submissions on the fact that a sitting head of state cannot be in a position to (singularly) directly or indirectly (through proxies, agents, 'blind trusts' or whatever) make policies for the sole purpose of profitting himself.

Obasanjo's Transcorp shares did just that.

2. OBJ's holdings / partners / family / village have all been directly mentioned as beneficiaries of the PTDF.

3. There are direct accusations from Atiku and we still wait for the details of transactions on the accounts in question to be released (if they ever will be).

It is foolhardy to expect Atiku or anyone else to set up an 'EFCC' to investigate OBJ, so those who claim that this implies the lack of guilt on OBJ's part (since he has been 'cleared') are clearly being disingenuous.

4. We are all aware of how impoverished OBJ and his 'holdings' were in 1999.
How then do we explain his paying off debts of over 200 million naira, and then become so profitable to be generating over 150 million naira per annum?

5. OBJs repayment of the 50 million naira 'Dariye' money is a clear indication of guilt and there is no way of explaining this away.

Please my brothers, step up to the plate and do not let your eyes be blinded by ethnic sentiments.

Our politicians, almost to a man, are a bunch of crooks.

Transcorp shares I can accept that needs to be looked at. Points 2-4 are mere hear say until evidence is produced otherwise they are garbage.

Point 5, you need to read the entire story instead of trying to bend it to suit your argument. The story in the paper said, Dariye paid N100m into the campaign fund. When the source of the money appeared questionable, OBJ agreed that the money which was initially accepted be refunded. He paid N50m and ordered Atiku to pay the other N50m. Now I don't know the inner mechanics of the PDP party work but, refunding questionable money which was initially accepted is about as acceptable as it gets.
Unless I've read the story wrong.

The transcorp shares I'm going to hold off on that until the National Assembly amkes a decision. I'm still not entirely convinced a Government official cannot use a blind trust to invest in the private sector.

Latest: It's no longer an attempted coup. It's actually a successful coup. Thai Banks, Schools and Stock Market to close tommorow.

Leave them let them keep entertaining us. All the stuff Atiku has so far released (if they are true) are about OBJ's sorburdinates. Instead of him to try and clear his name, he's making himself look stupid. If he wants to take people down with him, why doesn't he report these stories officially for investigation?
Either way he should keep digging. OBJ is leaving next year. Hopefully with Atiku knocked out, IBB will follow before the elections.

Nutter:
But, why the focus on only Atiku? He has accused King Kong of wrongdoing and he is in a position to know this for a fact. Why is this not also under Odeku’s scrutiny?

Cause he is also in a position to lie and that's already a fact. On one hand he claims he isn't corrupt and is only being persecuted (no doubt his reason is third term). On the other hand he is releasing statements saying he and OBJ ran accounts toghether and used those accounts illegally.

Which are we to believe, that he is innocent? Or that he is guilty and OBJ is also guilty? This is what happens when people lie. They contradict themselves.

Over 30 minutes for my previous post to come true. Hmmm a little disappointed.

Let us see if this source will really provide such evidence.

Great points guys. They will ignore it however, and we will come back full circle to repeat the same thing.

ishmael:
Odeku, don't be naive. If Atiku is a big thief then OBJ is the biggest thief. For those asking for evidence against OBJ, Atiku has them in bundles, and unless Atiku forms his own EFCC group to investigate OBJ nigerians will never come to know how bad BABA was; probably when he dies nigerians would come to know. They are all birds of same feather.

Yes well done. All that from your fountain of knowlegde on the happenings in Aso rock. You must have some insider informant to know so much. *End Sacarsm*

Were is the evidence to back up your so called facts? I could as well say IBB assasinated Dele-Giwa and claim I make statements based on facts. The purpose of me pasting your quote is for you to reliase that you shouldn't ask for what you won't give if asked to do the same.

Big B1:
JOSHO: I don't think so.

At least Atiku didn't use our money to buy cars and other gifts for his girl friends unlike OBJ.

How low could a leader go?

Since you made this comment here
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-23179.0.html

Big B1:
So sorry for your pain and I hope your folks rest in peace.

This is one side story, I've been there before and I see it every day. One sided story with out the other is always painting the other side as the evil. You never know, the other side's story may shed some light on things that will be beneficial. It is always effective to hear directly from the other side before concluding

No disrespect, but how did IBB kill these folks?
Can you link him directly to this allegation?
Do you have the full story behind Vasta's execution?
Do you understand the military laws?
Is there anybody else responsible apart from IBB?
Where is IBB's VP?

You don't have to forget, but if you forgive, I bet you, life in general will be much better for you.
Once again, may your folks rest in peace.

I'm now going to ask the following,
Can you link him directly to using public funds to buy cars for his girlfriends?
Do you have the full story?
Is there any other way they could have gotten money to buy the cars?
DO you have any evidence to support your claim?

Peharps for every threat of an attack, for every cleric that disrepects the secular way of life in the West, The West should organise a day of anger. And burn Flags of Islamic countries. Also the West should go ahead and attack embassies of those Islamic countries on their soil. And send "special crusade forces" and "freedom fighters" to attack vunrable civilian targets in the Islamic countries.

The West should also use reckless rethoric like, Iran should be exterminated from the human race and all people must be christains. Or they should make statements like Islamic countries should be wiped off the face of the Earth, or statements like "Holy Crusades against unbelievrs". The West should also issue fatwas against Countries and important people in those countries anytime they criticise the way of life in the West.

The pope should start saying things like killing unbelievers by chopping off their heads will make you go straight to heaven. However, he should add a side comment and say Christianity is a religion of peace.

Yeah that's what should happen.

No doubt this is also because of US foreign policy and Israel.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/5356126.stm

chidichris:
Atiku participated in the government that has failed to provide nigerian with basic armenities for the past eight years.
he shld be ashamed of himself.
if out of old age, obj has refused to be ashamed of himself, what happened to atiku who appears younger. he shld find a way to commit suicide.
IBB is not worth discussing.

LOL

chidichris:
it is really embarrassing that till date nigerians are still too blind to know the truth.
is the establishment of EFCC and other security agents basically for only people with political ambitions.

No it isn't. It's only when they go after politicians and their affiliates, they cry political persecution and Nigerians drink it all down and start criticising the EFCC. This is why we are were we are. We never learn. Look at Atiku, throwing accusations around. If he knew all this stuff in the first place and they are true why didn't he come foward?

Basically he is contempt to be corrupt and let others be corrupt if no one 'rocks the boat'. This is the type of man that wants to be president.
* Sigh, Nigerians* We never learn, Never!

What is about to happen will further demonstrate how peaceful, tolerant and fair these fundamentalists are.
This was the pope's speech and quote from the emperor:
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060912_university-regensburg_en.html

In the seventh conversation (διάλεξις - controversy) edited by Professor Khoury, the emperor touches on the theme of the holy war. The emperor must have known that surah 2, 256 reads: "There is no compulsion in religion". According to the experts, this is one of the suras of the early period, when Muhammad was still powerless and under threat. But naturally the emperor also knew the instructions, developed later and recorded in the Qur'an, concerning holy war. Without descending to details, such as the difference in treatment accorded to those who have the "Book" and the "infidels", he addresses his interlocutor with a startling brusqueness on the central question about the relationship between religion and violence in general, saying: "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached". The emperor, after having expressed himself so forcefully, goes on to explain in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable. Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul. "God", he says, "is not pleased by blood - and not acting reasonably (σὺν λόγω) is contrary to God's nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats, To convince a reasonable soul, one does not need a strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death, ".


The pope has apologised for quoting a text from history of which he has studied which was taken out of context (as can be seen from the full quote) by fundamentalist to further their jihad against infidels. These prehistoric Neantherthals are now asking for a 'day of anger'

No doubt this is a result of US policy and the existence of Israel. So we are to believe religion and Islam is now a no go area. Unbelievable and absolutely laughable. Lunacy at it's best.

Afam:
Like I stated earlier, you are finding it supremely difficult to make any meaningful contribution on this thread since we all advocated for discussing the real problems in the middle east. I get to read from you these days only when you want to discuss Afam, shame on you.

Your opinion has been noted and duly disregarded.

This thread has gone far off course. Therefore the discussions are not meaningful as far as I'm concerned. You will see me post when wrong information is posted and it is passed off as accurrate. I have better things to do than to discuss you or your deluded opinions on Middle East peace.

Nutter:
@Mariory,

2. Even if there was, the insulation provided by ‘Blind Trust’ would not apply after the concerned party has assumed office.

Yes it would. That is the purpose of blind trusts. To allow public office holders to partake in the private sector without the risk of a conflict of interest.

From the links you posted.
http://www.dawodu.com/aluko142.htm
The ethical dilemma which the President has entangled himself with - the multi-billion- naira donations by Corporate Nigeria both to his 2003 Campaign and to the Presidential Library Fund; the establishment of a private University at Bells Technological University in the midst of the declining fortunes of our public universities; and now the allegations of "blind trust" holdings in a highly-favored Transcorp - constitute a really troubling pattern. One gets the feeling that he is not properly advised by lawyers around him, and/or by his public relations handlers that a person in such a high position can be easily accused - and rightly so - of unrighteous influence peddling. There is a certain base level in which these activities can be described as strictly "legal", but at another level of public decency and perception, they leave a uncomfortable stink when every spirit of the law has been violated.

The president can do better. He should indeed speak to the nation on Transcorp and his involvement - and quickly too - and make amends if necessary.

http://www.sunnewsonline.com/webpages/opinion/editorial/2006/aug/24/editorial-24-08-2006-001.htm
The constitutional provision on the Code of Conduct for Public Officers states that a public official shall not put himself in a position where his personal interest conflicts with his duties and responsibilities. He should also not engage or participate in the management or running of any private business, profession or trade. The only exclusion here, however, is engaging in farming.

On the other hand, a blind trust is a trust arrangement for the management of assets in which the owner has no voice, used especially to avoid conflict of interests. Politicians often place their assets in blind trusts so that they cannot be accused of conflict of interest when they direct government funds to the private sector.

In spite of the explanations so far generated in defence of the president’s action, we hold that it is morally wrong for Obasanjo to buy shares into Transcorp while in office. His vision for the corporation is supposed to be international and doing business that will benefit Nigerians. Everything is wrong with the president’s buying of 200 million shares in a company that has almost bought everything the Federal Government is selling.

His office imposes certain restrictions on his conduct with or without a blind trust. This action is as immoral and questionable as his erection of a Presidential Library as well as a university while in office. There are certain things that one ought not do while in office to avoid raising eyebrows. This singular issue has put a question mark on the various transactions so far conducted between the government and the corporation.
We deplore any subterranean moves by a few powerful individuals to appropriate all indices of our common national heritage.

To put due process, transparency and anti-corruption crusade on course, the president should divest forthwith from Transcorp and let the company be run like any other truly Nigerian company as quoted in the Nigerian Stock Exchange. That is how the corporation can live up to the expectations and dreams of its founders.

Although these two articles show strong reservations about his companies investment in Transcorp, on no occassion do they use the word illegal because it isin't.

Afam: @Mariory,

I am blabbing about your style of making mistakes and never acknowledging them, it is wrong and makes you look like someone that can do anything to cover up his mistakes just as you are asking me what I am blabbing about when it is clear.

Look I've told you before, I do not care what you think of me. That's your opinion and it has nothing to do with this thread. I'm not going to argue with you about who made what mistakes. The pages in this thread already show that quite clearly. Quit whining like a kid.

Afam:
@Mariory,

I forgot to add this in my last reply. Only a fool will assume he/she is beyond mistake. Whenever I make a mistake, I accept it and move on, quite unlike you that will ignore any mistakes you make or you focus on the person that pointed them out.

As a matter of fact, I am never afraid of making mistakes in life, maybe that is why I can discuss issues without focusing on the person involved. You may need to learn to do that.

What in God's name are you blabbing about now? :rolleyes:

Afam:
My promise to you is this - no matter how hard you try you will never be able to accuse me of double standards or bias or subjectivity on the issues thus far on this thread.

LMFAO! No offense Afam but, there are several occassions one can accuse you of exactly that in this thread. There are several posts where you have made assumptions on 'hear say'. On one occassion, when corrected, your excuse for not knowing better was that you get most of your information from CNN.

[quote author=Brown-Eyes link=topic=17880.msg608672#msg608672 date=1158280962]@Davidylan

Take a look at Afghanistan and Iraq. Who installed their government?[/quote]The majority of the people of those countries installed their governments.

Afghanistan
The government that came to power after the Taleban were ousted was the same government that was in power before the taleban drove them from kabul during the civil war. That government was still the recognised government in Afghanistan during Taleban rule. Only 3 countries accepted the Taleban. Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and UAE.
The Afghan government even still had their sit at the UN and were still represented at the UN by their ambassaodr. WHen the Afghan war stated with the US, the civil war in Afghanistan was still on. You should read up on the history of Afghanistan before making such comments.

Iraq
As for Iraq, reports have it that Iraq was invaded to create a democracy to counter Iran's growing influence. Whatever the excuses, the Iraq war remains a disastrous, ill-advised operation.

Chiori:
Judging from goings-on in the nation today, one would be forced to conclude that Nigeria is not ready for democracy. What with the arbitrary registration of political parties; the flagrant disregard for the rule of law and public opinion by Nigeria's leaders and top civil servants; the militarization of the polity using the Nigeria Police [Force]; the weakness of the Federal Constutution before the President of the Republic; the oppression that is prevalent in the society - the rich oppressing the poor, and the poor oppressing the rich; the rising poverty level; the resort of the average Nigerian to force just to buttress a point. There are many pointers to suggest that maybe, just maybe, we entered into this thing called democracy too soon.

After decades of military rule, I find your last sentence insulting (nothing personal). We have only been a democracy for 8 years. That means that those who were in power with or via the military are still the ones in power. It will take time for the old to pass through and younger more democracy minded individuals take control of the helm. It is a process we must bear. The alternative is simply not worth it.

Is atiku clutching at straws?
http://www.punchng.com/Articl.aspx?theartic=Art200609155394212

The Atiku ship is sinking fast. Will he go down with it or jump overboard to fight another day?

And yet when one goes after him, it is critisied for doing so because of politics. So what exactly do you want here? Don't go for him or go for him? Which is it?

Nutter:
@Mariory,

Did you read your link at all? I suggest you start reading from page 3. Your link destroys your argument. You shouldn't have posted it.

Definition of blind trusts as defined in both links you provided
Sun: A blind trust is a trust arrangement for the management of assets in which the owner has no voice, used especially to avoid conflict of interests. Politicians often place their assets in blind trusts so that they cannot be accused of conflict of interest when they direct government funds to the private sector.

DAWODU.COM: A blind trust is a trust in which the executors or those who have been given power of attorney have full discretion over the assets, and the trust beneficiaries have no knowledge of the holdings of the trust. Blind trusts are generally used when a trustor wishes to keep the beneficiary unaware of the specific assets in the trust, such as to avoid conflict of interest between the beneficiary and the investments. Politicians often place their assets in blind trusts so they cannot be accused of conflict of interest when they direct government funds to the private sector.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/blindtrust.asp
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=blind+trust&x=0&y=0

So in actual fact, there has been illegal act committed here. The code of Conduct has not been broken. Now arguments as to whether Obj should have such a move or not are simply opinions of various individuals.
However, I am of the opinion that he should not have made this move while he was still president especially with the situation we have in Nigeria. That does not change the fact that there was no illegal act in him investing in Transcorp via a blind trust.

Nutter:
Yes, it goes against Code of Conduct regulations. Okereke shouldn't be Chairperson either. It flies in the face of international standards on every fundamental level. But, as we all know, anything is possible in nigeria. As soon as King Kong leaves office, Transcorp will commence its slow, agonizing death. That much is certain.

So what part of this document does it go against?
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:1aWQMv3goIgJ:unpan1.un.org/intradoc/groups/public/documents/CAFRAD/UNPAN004656.pdf+Code+of+Conduct+%2B+nigeria&hl=en&gl=uk&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a

or in pdf format
http://unpan1.un.org/intradoc/groups/public/documents/CAFRAD/UNPAN004656.pdf

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5345202.stm

Al-Qaeda's deputy leader has claimed that a radical Algerian Islamist group has joined al-Qaeda and is being urged to punish France, it has emerged.

Hope the French are ready to negotiate and use "proportionate" response when the bombings start.

Exactly! This is what I don't understand. He stated openly that he would invest from day one. He did so via his company. So what exactly is the problem with his investemnt? Did it break a law in the constitution?

Explanation on interests held in Transcorp by Obasanjo Farms ltd
http://www.ngrguardiannews.com/news/article09/140906

Alleged list of transcorp "owners" <-- (not sure what they mean by owners)
http://www.vanguardngr.com/articles/2002/cover/september06/14092006/f214092006.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5340364.stm

Hezbollah's leader has said two Israeli soldiers held by his group will only be released if a Lebanese militant held by Israel for 27 years is also freed.

This airhead thinks he can demand the release of a murderer.

Ah I see. See they aren't all vindictive idiots at the EFCC afterall.

Big B1:
ODEKU: As per your comment "all joke aside" Very soon IBB will come out and clarify things. Trust me, he's a true leader and he's not scared to admit his past mistakes. He's skillful and a powerful motivator.


All Joke aside, He's not a saint, but he's my man and I hope he comes out quickly to clarify things. Remember, a better Nigeria is ahead.

Your IBB is going down. A better Nigeria is indeed ahead with IBB in jail or on the run. He can pick which situation he wants to be in.