₦airaland Forum

Bidam:
God never said tithe should be only agric. Did Abraham your father based his tithe on agric?

There is nowhere in the Scriptures prior to the Law that says God even required a tithe. We've been through that before.

Nevertheless, once God established the Law, He instituted specific instructions concerning His holy tithe. It was to be agricultural. Unless you can provide a Scripture after the Law that says God amended His tithe to a tithe of money, then we cannot say God's tithe is money.

We don't have an issue with God's tithe.

What we have an issue with is man taking God's tithe and making it a tithe that God never authorized it to be in His Word.

Change the truth, even by a small percentage, it is no longer the truth. God said The tithes that were to go to the House of God were 1% of the nation's agricultural produce. Man says the tithes that are to go to the House of God are 10% of one's monetary gain, thereby exchanging the Word of Truth for a lie and then feeding that lie to whomsoever will accept the lie as truth.

Sadly, many who do not study the Word of God fall for the lie of the monetary tithe requirement doctrine.

Easy solution for Bidam...

If you're tired of tithe threads, don't enter into them.

vooks:
And in teaching tithing in your church Malachi is never used?

Isn't it funny that Bidam says tithing is voluntary in his Church, yet he teaches if you don't tithe you are robbing God? LoL

https://www.nairaland.com/1540233/inviting-tithers-theological-discuss-miwerds/17#20153067

Listening to a Pastor Mike Hilson of New Life Church teaching that not tithing to God first, puts one in exile and under a curse.


If Bidam has never heard pastors preach curses for those who don't tithe, then the only conclusion I can arrive at is

1. He is deaf
or 2. He has never been to Church
or 3. He is secretly listening to mp3's while the pastor is preaching and therefore does not hear him.

Bidam:
And i have not seen any so far, if they are threatened then it's wrong.

i have posted this more than once on this forum, so not sure why you haven't seen it?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmh_IF-eJQc

Also, google Angelica Zumbranos, she tells people that she saw people in hell for not tithing. If
I remember correctly, Richard Sigmund also preached non-tithers would go to hell because they are robbing God. Practically every tithe-teaching preacher I have ever known tells their congregations their health, jobs, families, homes, vehicles, etc., will be cursed for not tithing.

Still reeling....

Two months ago, Fred Price, Jr., of Ever Increasing Faith Ministries shocked many in the Word of Faith movement when he preached a three-part sermon on tithes, informing his 5,000 member congregation that God never commanded tithes of money from anyone in the Bible, and that Crenshaw Christian Church members were not required to tithe. He also let them know God would not curse them if they didn't tithe.

Last year, Creflo Dollar dropped a bombshell as well. He too, admits that one will not be cursed if one does not tithe one's money. This message is said to have been preached at Kenneth Copeland's Conference Meeting with other well-known ministers in the WoF movement.

Is God beginning to do a work in the Word of Faith movement? Are they finally going to get out of God's way and let Him do what He wanted done all along?

I'm amazed.

Nation in Malachi 3:8 could not have been speaking of the nation of Priests.

I say this because not all Priests were at the Temple at the same time. They worked by courses, as revealed in the Chronicles. (2 Chronicles 31)

What had happened is found in Nehemiah 13. Eliashib the Priest had moved all the holy things and the tithes out of the Temple, and had moved Tobiah the Ammonite in. (v.4-7)

The Priests who were on duty at the Temple obviously were aware of this, for when Nehemiah heard about it, he did not address Eliashib alone... he rebuked the entire staff that was on duty at that time! (v.4-12)

He told them to bring the holy things back into the Temple chambers, (v.4-12) and to bring the tithes back as well. (v.10 ) They brought the holy things back, but they did not bring back the stolen tithes. Instead, Judah went out into all Israel and took tithes of the people and brought those in. (v.12)

The tithes that had been stolen were still stolen. They had not been returned. Hence, Malachi's command for the Priests to bring all the tithes into the storehouse. They had robbed God, (Mal. 3:8 ) and He wanted them back! (Mal. 3:10 )

Malachi 3:6, as I explained above, was referring to the Priests. From chapter 1, verse 6, we see God addressing the Priests. And He is addressing them still in chapter 2 and in chapter 3. The subjects being chastised were consistently the Priests.

Bidam:
So what does it mean, mr lecturer?

When preaching on the topic of tithes, pastors often begin their sermon at Malachi 3:8. But why start at Malachi 3:8? They should instead start at Malachi 2:1. Then they will have proper context for the command in 3:10.

Malachi 2:1 says, “And now, O Priests, this command is for you.” What command? There is no command given in the entirety of that chapter. Read on.

In Chapter 3:6, we read, “For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.”

So, we see thus far that God was speaking to a specific people, Priests who were descendants of the patriarch Jacob. Read on.

When we arrive at verse ten, we see the commandment referred to in Malachi 2:1. “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse that there may be meat in my House…”.

Nehemiah 10:37-38 reveals to us that it is not the congregation who is responsible for tithing to the House of God. Rather, it is the Levites.

The commanded tithes were agricultural, as commanded in Leviticus 27:30-33. They were not money.

So, now we have the whole truth. The command of Malachi 3:10 is not a command for us to tithe our money, it was not a command for the congregation to bring tithes to the storehouse. It was a command for the Levitical Priests to bring the agricultural tithes to the House of God, to the chambers.

The Priests had stolen the tithes from the storehouse, and God wanted them back. (“O ye Priests, this command is for you”; “Ye have robbed me, even this whole nation”; Bring ye all the tithes…”)

Pastors have deceitfully handled the Word of God for too long. They have twisted the truth of Malachi 3:8-12, and used it as a tool to rob us of our monies.

We are to be faithful stewards of all that our God has given us. That includes being faithful with our money as well. Giving our money to thieves is not wise stewardship.

In 2 Corinthians 8:13, the Apostle Paul wrote that he did not want the Corinthians giving to be such that others were eased and the Corinthians themselves burdened. Many tithe teaching pastors place unnecessary burdens on Church members while they are living the good life.

Time for Christians to wake up… stop feeding the Thieves.

"Nation" in verse 8 is not saying that the whole nation of Israelites were robbing God. Rather, it is saying God and the nation were being robbed... by the Priests.

In stealing the tithes from the storehouse, the Priests brought a curse upon the nation of Israel, a curse of famine and drought. They had robbed the nation of the rain from heaven and the abundance of crops that the land usually yielded.

The ones robbing the storehouse were the Priests. Their thievery robbed the whole nation of God's blessings on the land.

Image123:
Again, nobody was hinting on your physical blindness. i linked you to the post where i got that and the post wasn't talking about physical blindness. If you think truth is about not tithing or tithing agric produce, it's unfortunate for you to discover that as truth. If tithing is spiritual blindness, praise the Lord, there are no worries. But the worry is that hypocrisy is spiritual blindness, bitterness and dishonesty is spiritual blindness, hatred and malice is spiritual blindness/ these among other things is what i find consistent with most antitithers on the forum. They have no worries with these traits as long as they are antitithe. You guys have indeed missed the mark and deceived yourselves so much you believe a lie. Go and ask God to show you Truth, you would appreciate it. i'm out

God has already showed me the trut, so your condescending remarks and false accusations are wasted. Go speak them to the gullible and fearful.

Your spiritual blindness is far greater and more serious than my physical blindness.

At least I am able to discern truth.

Oil and wine are found in the fruit. One need only squeeze olives to get olive oil.

Try squeezing a bunch of olives, and you will see what i mean.

One only need squesze grapes to get wine.

Again, squeeze a cluster of grapes, and you will see what I mean.

Now, go outside and hug a tree. Squeeze it as hard as you can. Bet it won't produce a single naira. You can knock the tree down and park a 60 ton vehicle over it, but it still will not produce money.

Fact is, in order get paper money, man has to fashion the material himself. Paper money is not something that God created, man did.

Sure, there is Scripture that tells us man could not tithe money.

Deuteronomy 12:8 Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day, every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes.

God said His holy tithes were agricultural. Man could not tithe money, He had to tithe what God said was to be tithed.

Of course, you will ignore this verse since you want to do what is right in your own eyes.

Bidam:
You are going off course, read the preceding verse to know how the redeem is done. Redeem is simply to buy back, just as Christ redeem us from the curse of the LAW, the question is, is it with money? It is also used of God buying his people back from the slavery of Egypt (Exodus 6:6; Isaiah 51:10; 63:9).

Hmmmm

A farmer doesn't feel he will have enough food at home to feed his family. So, he requests to buy back his tithed food... with the tithed amount of food plus 20% more food? RoFL

And you are suggesting we are off? LoL

When preaching on the topic of tithes, pastors often begin their sermon at Malachi 3:8. But why start at Malachi 3:8? They should instead start at Malachi 2:1. Then they will have proper context for the command in 3:10.

Malachi 2:1 says, “And now, O Priests, this command is for you.” What command? There is no command given in the entirety of that chapter. Read on.

In Chapter 3:6, we read, “For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.”

So, we see thus far that God was speaking to a specific people, Priests who were descendants of the patriarch Jacob. Read on.

When we arrive at verse ten, we see the commandment referred to in Malachi 2:1. “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse that there may be meat in my House…”.

Nehemiah 10:37-38 reveals to us that it is not the congregation who is responsible for tithing to the House of God. Rather, it is the Levites.

The commanded tithes were agricultural, as commanded in Leviticus 27:30-33. They were not money.

So, now we have the whole truth. The command of Malachi 3:10 is not a command for us to tithe our money, it was not a command for the congregation to bring tithes to the storehouse. It was a command for the Levitical Priests to bring tithes to the House of God, to the chambers.

Pastors have deceitfully handled the Word of God for too long. They have twisted the truth of Malachi 3:8-12, and used it as a tool to rob us of our monies.

We are to be faithful stewards of all that our God has given us. That includes being faithful with our money as well. Giving our money to thieves is not wise stewardship.

In 2 Corinthians 8:13, the Apostle Paul wrote that he did not want the Corinthians giving to be such that others were eased and the Corinthians themselves burdened. Many tithe teaching pastors place unnecessary burdens on Church members while they are living the good life.

Time for Christians to wake up… stop feeding the Thieves.

Verse 20 is pretty self explanitory. An Israelite was permitted to eat animals that were considered to be clean. Unclean animals were animals that scavenged for their food, and also animals that were sick with disease.

Verse 21 states that the Israelites could not eat an animal that died on its own. These deaths could be due to disease, old age, starvation, or other reasons. Interesting enough, the animal could be given to foreigners or sold to aliens. The Israelites were also forbidden to boil a young goat in its mother's milk. (*note: aliens did not necessarily mean a person not of the Israelite tribes. A harlot was considered a foreigner in some cases.

Verses 22-27 is referring to the Feast tithe. It was observed in the Holy city, Jerusalem. The Feast tithe was eaten by the tither and those living in his house.

Verses 28-29 is referring to a third tithe, known as the Poor Tithe, or Charity Tithe. This tithe was kept in the Israelite cities and used to feed the Levites, widows, orphans & foreigners in Israel.

"Whether" does indeed indicate choice. And God decreed what the choices were to be... A) Seed of the land, B) Fruit of the tree & C) Sorry, God didn't give a third choice.

God said His holy tithes were agricultural. You can continue to try to spin your silver and gold into the fabric of the tithes all you want. But no matter how much you say the tithe is money, the Bible proves you to be wrong.

God's Word reveals that His holy tithes were never carried to the New Testament Church, never collected in the New Testament Church, and never controlled by the New Testament Church. No matter how much you claim that the Church has authority to take God's holy tithes, the Bible proves you wrong.

I'll stick with what the Word of God says.

You allege that I have no fear of God, but I contend that it is just the opposite. I have a great respect for my Father. It is not me who is in blatant disregard for His Holy Word... Rather, it is you.

A simple cross check from you would reveal that your 4AM POST WAS QUESTIONING THE VERACITY OF MY EARLIER POST.

I EXPLAINED THAT POST AT 9:30, in a manner a child of the 3rd grade would have no problem understanding. It is unfortunate you just can't accept fact.

Actually, my 9:50 answer was expounding on the previous answer I had written between 1 & 2 AM. Since your heart and/or greed had you blinded to what clearly was written in my earlier post, I figured I would post it again at an elementary level.



How much do you get paid for your false accusations?

And, as any honest person can see, I did prove that God emphatically stated that tithes were agricultural only... Contrary to Image's claim that I didn't.

No, they were not tithing prior to entering Canaan. But, they were doing whatever they thought was right in their own eyes. Such nonsense would stop once they entered Canaan. They would do as God commanded or face punishment... And that included the command to tithe. God said His holy tithe was agricultural, and that is what He meant it to be.

Yes, the issue was answered by me. Image just refuses to accept the Biblical proofs and undeniable facts.



Proof: Leviticus 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD.
Leviticus 27:31 And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
Leviticus 27:32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
Leviticus 27:33 He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

Fact: God did not say 'And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, or of thy silver, thy gold, or thy wages is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD.' He said the tithe consisted of crops and livestock... nothing else.


Proof: Numbers 18:21 And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.

Numbers 18:24 But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.

Numbers 18:26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe.

Numbers 18:28 Thus ye also shall offer an heave offering unto the LORD of all your tithes, which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the LORD'S heave offering to Aaron the priest.

Deuteronomy 14:28 At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:
Deuteronomy 14:29 And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

Nehemiah 10:37 And that we should bring the firstfruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the chambers of the house of our God; and the tithes of our ground unto the Levites, that the same Levites might have the tithes in all the cities of our tillage.
Nehemiah 10:38 And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house.

Fact: God did not say the tithe was to go to Levites, widows, orphans, strangers in Israel & pastors on Gentile soil. His tithe was to go to people in Israel.

Proof: Deuteronomy 12:1 These are the statutes and judgments, which ye shall observe to do in the land, which the LORD God of thy fathers giveth thee to possess it, all the days that ye live upon the earth.

Deuteronomy 12:10 But when ye go over Jordan, and dwell in the land which the LORD your God giveth you to inherit, and when he giveth you rest from all your enemies round about, so that ye dwell in safety;
Deuteronomy 12:11 Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD:

Fact: God said tithe was to be observed once the children of Israel crossed the Jordan and found rest from their enemies. They were not required to tithe until they entered Canaan.

Proof: Deuteronomy 12:8 Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day, every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes.

Fact: God said things were to be done His way, not man's. His tithe was to be agricultural, to the Levites, widows, orphans and strangers in the land that God had promised to Jacob... Canaan. They could not have tithed money. They were not to do what seemed right in their own eyes. They were to do as God commanded.

Proof: Hebrews 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
Hebrews 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
Hebrews 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
Hebrews 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

Fact: The last commandment in the Bible concerning tithes, they are still the property of the sons of Levi. They are still according to the Law; i.e., agricultural.

Fact: There is not one iota of Scripture that ever commands anyone to tithe money to Tabernacle, Temple, or Church.

Fact: In the Bible, tithes were never carried to the New Testament Church, tithes were never collected in the New Testament Church, and tithes were never controlled by the New Testament Church.

Leviticus 11:22 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.

In the above verses, we see several insects with the pronoun "his" attached to them. Yet in Proverbs 6:6, we see the ant being used in conjunction with the female pronoun... "Go to the ant, thou sluggard; consider her ways; and be wise.

We've been throught all of it, Image. Your theories have been totally debunked.

Who emphatically said money could not be tithed? God did... When He said:

Leviticus 27:30 (KJV) 30 And all the tithe of the land, [whether] of the seed of the land, [or] of the fruit of the tree, [is] the LORD'S: [it is] holy unto the LORD.

Leviticus 27:31 (KJV) 31 And if a man will at all redeem [ought] of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth [part] thereof.

Leviticus 27:32 (KJV) 32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, [even] of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.

Leviticus 27:33 (KJV) 33 He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

Deuteronomy 12:8 (KJV) 8 Ye shall not do after all [the things] that we do here this day, every man whatsoever [is] right in his own eyes.

You can deny it all you want, but when you do, you are lying against the Word of God.

He said His holy tithe was to be agricultural, not money.

In the last place tithes are commanded in the Bible, they are still agricultural tithes and still to be given to the Levites.

I don't expect you to accept the facts written in the Word, but maybe someone else will and realize their pastors have been the robbers all along, not them.

Funny, people were paid money for their work in the New Testament, yet were not required to tithe it. Nor was tithing of money ever a suggestion in either the Old or New Testament.

People bought and sold with their money. Yet were never told "you must tithe your money". Nor was it suggested they could tithe their money.

But it was stated emphatically that they could not.

Zikkyy:
It is not about what the jews did but about what they were instructed to do. Did God command the Jews to fast twice a week? the answer is NO! Did God command the Jews to tithe of all they possess? the answer is No! The pharisee went beyond the command of the Lord to tithe agric produce by tithing all his possession just to show he is better (holier) than others. read him in 18:11.....

11[b]The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. [/b]12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

Working hard to impress the Lord ehn? am happy to read that Jesus was not impressed..... and to think that the pharisee is ya role model?

right. The Pharisees offered that which God never commanded and looked down on others who would not... Much like the actions of tithe teachers of today.

brocab:
First you can't eat money, And Jesus said: he will provide for our needs. Birds they neither sow, nor they neither reap, nor put into barns, and yet the lord feeds them; How much more are you.
second tithing was put in place for the remissions of sins.
Jesus didn't tithe because we all know Jesus isn't a sinner.
And if we are to imitate Jesus, and follow him, then tithing isn't for us.
Thur shall not steal..

Actually, BroCab, tithing was not for the remission of sins. Tithing was for the sustenance of the Levites, the widows, orphans, and Gentiles living in Israel.

One can never convince me that tithing to Levites would cause one's sins to be remitted.
One can never convince me that tithing to widows would cause one's sins to be remitted.
One can never convince me that tithing to orphans would cause one's sins to be remitted.
One can never convince me that tithing to Gentiles would cause one's sins to be remitted.

The only thing that brought about remission of sin was the sacrificial blood of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Again, the purpose of the tithe was to feed the Levites, the widows, the orphans and the Gentiles living in Israel.

Image123:
Lol @Mark. We should assume and suppose that 10% of ALL Israel's agricultural produce MUST be less than the size of Josephus's temple. But 10% of tithes of all things that the Bible records CANNOT BE less than Josephus temple. Do you see why i say you are a bigot?
BTW, tithes talked about in that passage is of course on increase for that year. It wasn't a tithe of every property in Israel. Tithe is 10% of INCOME or INCREASE.bring forth all the tithe of thine increase. Emphasis on increase.

aren't you twisting the Scripture a bit? It does not say increase of all things. It says

2 Chronicles 31:5 (KJV) 5 And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and the tithe of all [things] brought they in abundantly.

And, wouldn't new clothing, new furniture, new dinnerware, silver and gold earned by working men have been increase according to your definition?

The thing is, 1% of agricultural products in the Temple chambers is far more believable than 1% of increase of furniture, dinnerware, clothing, gold, silver, food, etc., being taken into the chambers. Especially in light of the fact that God said His hoy tithe was agricultural.

http://boldproclaimer./2014/11/12/the-tithe-the-temple/

An article I just wrote concerning the tithe of all things.

Josephus records the Temple as being 485½ feet long× 145½ feet wide.

The Bible records that the tithe of all things was taken to the Temple. No matter how much Image wants all to not mean agricultural only, the dimensions of the Temple reveal that cannot be the case. Anything more than farmer's crops being tithed .
would have demanded a much larger Temple

Hey vooks,

Can you imagine what it would be like if Image's theory concerning tithes were true?

10% of all food, clothing, gold, silver, furniture, dinnerware, etc., would have to be tithed.

After all, the Scripture does say, "the tithe of all things", does it not?

Seems to me there would be no room for the Levites to live, seeing the are getting 10% of all those items. Tens of thousands upon tens of thousands of people taking all that stuff to the Levites in the forty-eight cities as the Law required..

Stuff piled in the streets because there was no room. Hezekiah sees the heaps and orders the storehouse to be built in the Temple. So thousands of items, chairs, beds, clothes, gold, silver, food, dinnerware, etc., are taken to the House of God and into the chambers as instructed.

Just how big was the Temple to hold all that stuff? RoFL

See where the theory that "tithe of all things" means everything was titheable leads? No room in the Temple at all for animal sacrifices and other Temple duties. I'm surprised the holy of holies was even useable for more than needed storage, LoL

Actully, Acts 18:12 does not prove Jews tithed more than agriculture. God's Law said His holy tithe was agricultural, and that the Jews could not just do whatever they thought was right in their own eyes.

The Pharisee in the Parable was lying. Also, he did not say, 'We give tithes of all'

Luke 18:12 is far from proof that the Jews tithed things other than agricultural products.