₦airaland Forum

Image123:
Have we ever discussed this? Any recall?

December 2013-February 2014.

Image123:
So you agree he's doing private interpretation?

To some extent, yes.

The Bible does not say Melchizedek rushed to that Valley where he met Abram.

But likewise, the Bible does not say we are to tithe because Abram tithed.

Image123:
Your conjecture is what scriptures call private interpretation.

As is yours.

gebest:
A CANAL MAN CANNOT UNDERSTAND THE THINGS OF THE SPIRIT, IF U OR UR WIFE OR UR CHILDREN ARE SICK ND U ADMIT DEM IN D HOSPITAL ND U AR SPENDING ON D BILLS DONT U KN DAT IS A DEVOURER, ABEG I KN FIT TALK JAREE, U READ D BIBLE BUT U DONT UNDERSTAND IT.

The Bible nowhere calls hospital visits "devourer." Nor does it call Physicians "devourer"

Jesus is known as the Great Physician. People brought their sick to Him and He healed them. Using your logic we can rightly call Him a "devourer."

Sorry, but "devourer" in the Hebrew Old Testament referred to the pest that ate the garden crops.... not hospitals.

Further, God said He would rebuke the devourer for Israel's sake. If the devourer was hospital bills, sickness, etc., God musthave forgotten His promise for those who would tithe. There is no obvious rebuke, for the hospital bills continue to be given. People who have tithed faithfully (such as my mother, who tithed each month for 50+ years,... even on her deathbed in the last year of her life) die of cancer, AIDS, ebola, and other diseases. Why was the devourer not rebuked from them? Is not God faithful to His promises? My Bible says He is.

So, if He is faithful to His promises, and those who believe their spiritual leaders when those leaders say God requires them to tithe money, tithe their money and still get sick, get bills, die, etc., it is evident that the "devourer" in Malachi is not, and cannot be referring to, hospital bills, sicknesses, etc..

In all thy getting get understanding. the Bible nowhere teaches tithes to be commanded for the Church, to be carried to the Church, or to be controlled by the Church.

Bidam:
Can you quote a scripture to support this? That the abrahamic covenant was nullified? Scripture pls? Not side talks or eisegesis.

As Goshen so rightly pointed out, I never said the Abrahamic Covenant was nullified in my post. I said the TITHE observed before the Law was nullified.

The fact that God said His holy tithes were agricultural should be proof enough that war spoils such as "garments" "shoe straps" etc., were no longer to be tithed.

Well, it is proof enough for those of us who believe the Word of God.

It is foolish to use Abram's tithe to prove a man-made law.

1. Abram tithed something entirely different than the tithe you insist is to be done.
2. Abram tithed something that did not even belong to him... spoils of war that he told God he would not claim as his own.
3. It matters not that Abram tithed before the Law. Once God said his tithe was to be agricultural, spoils of war could not be tithed from any longer.
4. God wanted far less from spoils of war than a tenth... far, far less.

You argue tithes are to be observed since they were given before the law. Yet, the Word of God proves that the tithe observed before the Law was nullified once the Law was established.

Zikkyy:
The comment by Image is used by pastors to justify the collection of tithe of blood money, armed robbery proceeds, tithe from prostitution e.t.c

not forgetting the promotion of extorting money from the poor and uneducated.

Image123:
Ridiculous conclusion, you forget deliberately that tithe is 10% of a whole. You hurt yourself when you unthink this way, i should warn.

And you, Image123, forget that God said in His Word what "whole" He required to be tithed from.

Was it from the whole Earth? Nada! It was from the whole of the land that God had promised to Jacob. That is where God said tithe was to come from.

He also said that what was to be tithed from that "whole" was agricultural products, not money.

It is you who is hurting, not us who rightly divide the Word of Truth.

The gift is greater.

But tithe is not a gift. Tithes were obligatory necessities. Deceitful Pastors and lying teachers teach their congregations it is required or they are cursed and robbing God. Tithe in Churches is nothing more than extorted monies.

Image123:
It is the altar that sanctifies the gift, and it is the temple that sanctifies the gold. Go, find time and God to learn what that means.

maybe you needs to find out what that means. Nadab and Abihu offered that which the Lord had not commanded. It did not become "sanctified" on the altar.

The Priests in Malachi offered sick and blind animals. They did not become "sanctified".

The preacher said, "Pay your tithe!
This is the command of God!
In this you must honor Him
As upon this Earth you trod.

But God, I have read your Word
And still do not understand
You required tithe of Israel
Not of any other land.

And the tithe, you said,
Was to be of trees and garden
And livestock were included too
From tithes there was no pardon.

But in all your Word that I have read
And studied night and day
You never said we were to tithe our cash
So answer if I may.

Just choose to give what I will give
As instucted by Apostle Paul?
Would you have us live under Grace?
Or be bound by Israel's Law?

Should my giving be a tithe?
Is that your true desire?
Or is the preacher's message
To you a a strange fire?

If never in your Word
You commanded tithe of cash
Then I will rightly rebuke the man
Whose tithe demand is trash.

Zikkyy:
I don't know what you talking about.



@bolded, you are saying...in a queue of vehicles waiting to purchase petrol at a station, the 'tenth' car is a tithe? or in a family of 13, the 'tenth' child is a tithe, abi? You see ya self Are you sure you are not practicing babylonian version of tithe?

any tithe that is given contrary to the tithe that God decreed in His Word is a pagan tithe.

God said His tithes were to go to Levites, widows, orphans & strangers in Israel. He said that it was to be observed as He had declared.

So, Image & company are only fooling themselves if they think their form of tithing is pleasing God.

Image123:
There we have it. Next time, don't condemn others who say God is not pleased with non-tithers. Your hypocrite friends are reading and should take notes.

you are forgetting one important factor... God never commanded us to tithe, so God's pleasure or displeasure is not hinged on whether we tithe or not.

However, you attempt to obey the Law by doing things your way, on your terms... Which, according to the Bible does displease Him.

Image123:
When someone says " deal with that before you stand
before God." It is indicative that God will not be pleased with such act during JUDGEMENT. You're also blind i guess, so this explanation is pretty pointless on you.

news flash... He won't be pleased with it. Strange fire is not His desire.

Bidam:
And how does this address his post? Who do you think the levites and descendants of Abraham gave their tithes to while in the loins of Abraham? When someone calls you a bible illterate now you get angry..SMH!

your discerner is broken. I wasn't angry.

The Bible tells us who Abraham tithed to. You must have forgot that truth. It also tells us what those tithes consisted of.

Image123:
You would have a problem still if it resembled 'tithe spoken of in the Bible.' i don't tithe to you, deal with that.

you also don't tithe to whom God said His tithes were to be given. You support and defend a God-robber.

You need to deal with that before you stand before God.

jdilight:
I was expecting you to tell me Jesus said stop tithing. What is your proof that the reason the apostles did not speak about tithe was because it was no longer relevant rather than the people were strict adherent to tithing. Do you know that most of the things the apostles spoke about were mainly for correcting the people. If it is so, why will they teach them to pay tithe the are obedient to.

Paul talk about giving to the Corinthians because they were not givers but did not do same to other churches.

the Gentile nations were not tithing to God. They had no knowledge that God required tithes... Or that He had 612 other Laws. Read Psalm 147:19-20. They were not given His ordinances. Tithing was an ordinance of God. See Malachi 3:7-12.

They were not tithing to God. They could not have been. They were unaware of that ordinance.

Ukutsgp:
Should pastors tell their followers not to tithe if they now realised the truth that tithing is not a requirement for the new testament church?
If they do, won't their followers see them as double tongued and paint them black for going back on what they have used their last blood to preach for a long time now?

Just imagine, Oyebopo, Adeboye, pastor christ, WF Kumuyi and many more popular men of God now telling their followers to stop tithing after they have preached the tithe doctrine to them for years. Won't it sound funny and even dent their reputation as men of God? And will even make their followers to see them as unserious?

So, i don't think that even if those popular preachers now know the truth about the tithe doctrine they have defended for a long time now, they would not tell their followers for fear of being ridiculed or denting their image before the public.

Instead of accepting "tithes" from their Church members, Pastors/Elders/Bishops/Apostles or whaever other tithe they want to be identified as need to quit encouraging their comgregations to tithe. Stop buying tithe envelopes. Tear up (or burn) the tithe envelopes that you've already purchased.

Hebrews 7:5 (KJV) 5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

Hebrews 7:6 (KJV) 6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

Hebrews 7:7 (KJV) 7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.

Hebrews 7:8 (KJV) 8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he [receiveth them], of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

God's Holy Word does not give you authority to receive tithes. The last place tithes are commanded in the Bible, (Hebrews 7:5-8 ) they are to be received by Levites... Not Pastors. Every time your Church receives tithes, it has committed an act of robbery. It has taken the property of another...that which rightfully belongs to the Levites.

If your members insist on tithing, teach them to make yearly trips to Israel to take their tithes to those whom God's Word says are the rightful owners of His tithes... Levites, widows, orphans and strangers in Israel.

As long as you continue to receive tithes in your Church, you will remain a God-robber, for you will be robbing the rightful owners of His tithes.

In the Bible, God's tithe was never commanded for, carried to, or controlled by the Church.

Zikkyy:
Are you referring to God's tithe or pastoral tithe? God's tithe is strictly for the Jews. Pastoral tithe (instituted by pastors!) can be paid anywhere as long as there is a pastor to collect. after all it's their money

God's tithe:
Leviticus 27:30-33 (NIV)
30 “‘A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord; it is holy to the Lord. 31 Whoever would redeem any of their tithe must add a fifth of the value to it. 32 Every tithe of the herd and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod—will be holy to the Lord. 33 No one may pick out the good from the bad or make any substitution. If anyone does make a substitution, both the animal and its substitute become holy and cannot be redeemed.’”

Pastoral tithe (as defined by image 123):

And notice Image's tithe nowhere resembles any tithe spoken of in the Bible.

Instead of accepting "tithes" from their Church members, Pastors/Elders/Bishops/Apostles or whaever other tithe they want to be identified as need to quit encouraging their comgregations to tithe. Stop buying tithe envelopes. Tear up (or burn) the tithe envelopes that you've already purchased.

God's Holy Word does not give you authority to receive tithes. The last place tithes are commanded in the Bible, (Hebrews 7:5- they are to be received by Levites... Not Pastors. Every time your Church receives tithes, it has committed an act of robbery. It has taken the property of another...that which rightfully belongs to the Levites.

If your members insist on tithing, teach them to make yearly trips to Israel to take their tithes to those whom God's Word says are the rightful owners of His tithes... Levites, widows, orphans and strangers in Israel.

As long as you continue to receive tithes in your Church, you will remain a God-robber, for you will be robbing the rightful owners of His tithes.

In the Bible, God's tithe was never commanded for, carried to, or controlled by the Church.

Image123:
So from the above scriptures, it is clearly written that tithes are barred from gentile land? What a conclusion.

and still, you fail to see the truth.

So their increase was due to "social networking", not because of something God had done.

Proverbs 17:4 (KJV)
A wicked doer giveth heed to false lips; [and] a liar giveth ear to a naughty tongue.

Image is very deceitful. He has been shown all of these truths many times and he, being the stubborn one he accuses me of being, refuses to accept what is clearly written in God's Holy Bible.

Image123:
But for YEARS, you've being unable to produce scriptures or even twist any that bars or discouraged tithes on gentile soil.

Deuteronomy 12:10 (KJV) 10 But [when] ye go over Jordan, and dwell in the land which the LORD your God giveth you to inherit, and [when] he giveth you rest from all your enemies round about, so that ye dwell in safety;

Deuteronomy 12:11 (KJV) 11 Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD:

Thither shall ye bring all that I command you.... Hmmmm sure looks like God did not want tithing to be done on Gentile soil to me. He told the children of Israel not to tithe until they were no longer on Gentile soil. Begin tithing once you cross Jordan and enter the land
He promised to Jacob.

The Gentiles did not know God's command to tithe. God still did not want tithes from Gentile soil.

Psalms 147:19 (KJV) 19 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.

Psalms 147:20 (KJV) 20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and [as for his] judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD.

And at the Jerusalem Council, it was decided by, not just the Apostles, but by the Holy Ghost as well, that the Gentiles were NOT to be required to keep the Law. The tithe command was God's Law, and it was for Israel only.... no other nation.

Romans 7:1 (KJV) 1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

Romans 7:2 (KJV) 2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to [her] husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of [her] husband.

Romans 7:3 (KJV) 3 So then if, while [her] husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Romans 7:4 (KJV) 4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

When you teach people in Nigeria, Canada, etc., that God expects tithes today, you teach them to be unfaithful to Jesus Christ. You teach them to commit spiritual adultery. You teach them Law that was never meant for them.

Matthew 15:9 (KJV) 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.

PastorKun:
Good to read from you Mark, it's been quite an age.

it has been a while, my Brother. I am still boldly proclaiming the Truth.

The fact that those of us who teach that God does not require monetary tithe have consistently given Scripture that supports our teaching should be proof enough that we are not "illiterate."

Funny how the one who accuses us of illiteracy has never produced any Scripture that says money is to be tithed to the Church.

As I said in an earlier post, a study of the Word of God will reveal the following undeniable truth.

In the Bible, there is not a single verse that shows tithes were ever commanded for the Church, that tithes were ever carried to the Church, or that tithes were ever controlled by the Church.

Greed, ignorance, and pride are three attributes that prevent tithe teachers from admitting this truth. For many, it is greed, because they have a love for money. For some, it is because they truly are ignorant of what the Word says and have no desire to know. For others, their pride prevents them from admitting they fell for the tithe lie and have been hoodwinked into parting with money as a result of that lie.

asuustrike1:
you haven't answered my question. did Jesus destroyed the old law? I have giving you biblical passages to back up my claims yet you're not convinced. If you still not convinced, Go on a fast and ask the holy spirit to expose you more on tithing. and for those falling ignorantly For the devices of the devil because you believe tithing isn't necessary, pray earnestly and seek God's face for direction because I Was once like you till the lord reveal it to me. in a nutshell, tithing is part of our obligation to God whether you like it or not. when you get heaven ask God why he made it. Do not lean On your understanding but ask the holy spirit to lead. As far the Bible stated it there, it's a law .if you like argue till Jesus come, you will not change it and the lord Almighty will judge according to what is written and what you or your pastor thinks. merci Monsieur

Ephesians 2:14 (KJV) 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us];

Ephesians 2:15 (KJV) 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;

Is not tithing an ordinance? Yes, Malachi 3 identifies it as such. And the Apostle says the ordinances have been abolished.

Your argument fails. Obviously, it is you who needs to "ask the Holy Spirit to lead".

asuustrike1:
Thank God you said Jesus says tithing isn't money. good question. I want to ask you this question, will accept 10 tubers of yam in exchange for a plot of land worth that scale. That's the value of 10tubers is the same as the value of land. secondly you said Mosaic law but It teaches the 10 commandment, why practice should laws if there are not relevant.? since you say we're in the new law why non kill, steal e.t.c Or it wasn't mention in the new testament too about Mosaic law or was it there for decoration too. Didn't Jesus read the Mosaic law too, did he changed it or say we. should do away it? why did apostle, write about Abraham's tithe in the new testament??

the guidelines we are to live by are found in the New Testament. Paul told churches on Gentile soil that they were to love their enemies. Loving your enemy means you do not kill your enemy. Paul also said the one who was once a thief was to steal no more.

As I said, guidelines are given for us. But not once in those guidelines are we told to tithe our money to a Church. God didn't even allow money to be tithed to His Temple in Jerusalem.

Exegeting Matthew 23:23

Woe to you, (sorrows, calamities)
scribes (lawyers)
and Pharisees (religious leaders)
Hypocrites! (actors; those who put on a pretense)
For ye tithe mint, and anise, and cummin (you give a tenth of your garden products)
and have neglected (you've failed to observe)
the weightier matters (more important things)
of the Law (the Mosaic Law)
Judgment, Mercy and Faith
These (tithes of garden products)
ought ye to have done (you should have done)
and not to leave the others undone (Judgment, Mercy and Faith)

The Mosaic Law stated that God's holy tithe was crops and livestock in the land of Israel. (Leviticus 27:30-34) Jesus was commending the scribes and Pharisees for keeping the command concerning tithes (tithing mint, anise and cummin; i.e., garden produce) and said they should be doing exactly what they were doing. Why? Because that is what the Law required, and as citizens of the land to which the Law applied, it was their duty to obey the Mosaic Law given to Israel just as we are to obey the laws in the state/county in which we live today.

Leviticus 27:30-33 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD. And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof. And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD. He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

Deuteronomy 12:1 These are the statutes and judgments, which ye shall observe to do in the land, which the LORD God of thy fathers giveth thee to possess it, all the days that ye live upon the earth.

Deuteronomy 12:6 And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:
The Mosaic Law commanded tithes of crops and livestock. (Notice in this verse God made a distinction between firstlings and tithes. So much for the claim that firstborn animals were tithes. LOL)

Deuteronomy 12:8 Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day, every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes.

Man could not do what seemed right in his own eyes. The tithe was crops and livestock, not money. Man was forbidden to tithe money.

Jesus was not saying 'tithe money in Matthew 23:23. Not at all. He was saying continue tithing that which the Law requires... Garden produce, jesus did not tell them to tithe "to the penny".

That is proper exegesis of Matthew 23:23.

asuustrike1:
before I start to prove that money Is part of tithing, I want to ask you this question. what were the levite using then to maintain the temple? 2.What form payment was used during Abraham era? when you answer these questions then I will give my ans

1. Tithes that went to the Temple were not for the maintenance of the Temple. They for the sustenance of the Levites and the Aaronic Priesthood.

There was a separate tax that was used for maintenance of the Temple... a half shekel a year from rich and poor alike.

2. What form of payment was used in Abraham's era? Form of payment for what? Tithes? Only one record of tithes ever being given in Abraham's era... Tithes from spoils of war. Not from Abraham's own property, nor from his personal riches.

asuustrike1:
what of Deuteronomy 22:5,Leviticus 19:28 Leviticus 27:30, etx are they not part of the old testament. don't satan use to mislead the saints. when he tempted Jesus, he quoted the Scriptures to justify his claims even when we all know that he Is wrong. You claim Abraham's blessing but don't want to know how He did It Or Abraham isn't part of the old law? Didn't Jesus say I haven't come to destroy the old laws but to fulfil it? why is the old testament there in the first place or is it for decoration? those who wrote the bible,werent they inspired by God. Why did God made mention of tithe. Tithing is for all believers be it pastor (Christians). Any preacher that preaches against tithe is anti Christ.

please provide Scripture that says money is to be tithed by an assembly of Believers on Gentile soil.

I am not using that passage against God. The verse does not endorse tithing in a Church environment. Nor does it endorse a tithe of money. For one thing, just 15 years earlier, it was determined by the Apostles and the Holy Ghost that the Gentile Converts need only observe four necessary things. Tithing was not one of those necessary things. Eight years after that determination, James reminded Paul of that decision.

There is no command for Church members on Gentile soil to tithe,... At least, not in the Bible, there isn't. But greed and/or ignorance of those facts drove deceitful men to invent the monetary tithe doctrine. And fools rushed in and readily accepted the commandments of men....