₦airaland Forum

khaylee:
@Markmiwerds,
My parents have bin tithging for over 25yrs, they are not rich but God has fulfilled and is still fulfilling the promises in Mal 3:10 to them.

One of the promises He made in that chapter is that He will send the devourer far away from us, My tithging was on and off and believe you me my two kids were always down with one sickness or the other every month to the extent that one of the nurses in d hospital we use said to her one day " regular customer , you have come again"?

I knew where the problem was and four months ago I decided to be totally faithful. the only time we Hv bin to the hospital after that decision was when the younger of d kids used cotton buds to hurt her ear. so My broda its working for me .

Concerning the agriculture produce u talkd abt, u shld knw that was there main occupation back then.

I am sure u are one of those that claim the blesseings in Deut 28, y can't u say d blessings mentioned there are meant for farmers alone?

Like I said in my earlier post, its not a gaurantee of making heaven but it makes our life on earth a bit enjoyable.

Sorry for the long story culdnt make it shorter.

stay blessed.

agriculture was not their main occupation. They had many trades and occupations. Do you only read chapters that mention farming in the Bible? There were carpenters, lawyers, tax collectors, candlemakers, stone masons, forgers, merchants, seamen, and many other occupations.

The blessings associated with tithing were for tithing agriculture, not money. God never promised blessings for tithing money. It is wrong to say He did. His commanded tithes were agriculture even though money was widely used throughout Israel.

khaylee:
Payment or Non-payment of tithes would not affect a man's chances of making or not making heaven.

However, u can get to heaven having lived like Abraham( he was rich in all things) or like the begger Lazarus who made heaven but lived a miserable life on earth.

What determines this constrasting life styles is ur Tithes or the absence of it.

I choose to Tithe and God's Word in Mal.3:10 is being fulfiled in my life everyday.

The choice is yours.

Your synopsis is flawed.

Abraham was already rich before he gave tithes to Melchizedek. There is no Scripture that says he got richer because of tithing to Melchizedek.
Also, Abraham did not tithe his own riches and assests. He tithed spoils of war that he had promised God he would not claim as his own property.

There are many people who have tithed for years who stay in poverty. My mother was a perfect example of that. Tithed for more than a half century. Lived a poor life, died poor. Money had to be borrowed to lay her body in the ground.

Malachi 3:10 is not being fulfilled for you. You may think it is, but in reality, it is not. The commanded tithes there are not tithes of money, they are tithes of agricultural produce as the Law required. You may think you are being faithful to Malachi 3:10, but you are not. If you were, you would be taking agricultural tithes to a Temple in Jerusalem. (That is, if you were a Levitic Priest) You may be blessed of God, but it is not because of the promise of Malachi 3:10. You are actually practicing contrary to Malachi 3:10. The commanded tithe was agricultural, and the commanded place to bring the tithe was a storehouse in Jerusalem... not money and a Church on Gentile soil.

Birds of a feather flock together

What is baffling is how you can say Melchizedek was a High Priest when the Bible doesn't state he was.

The sons of Aaron were all Priests in the order of Levites. However, not all Levites were Priests. And of the sons of Aaron, it was only certain ones who were made High Priests.

Scripture nowhere says Melchizedek was a High Priest, it simply says he was a Priest. You can add to the Word of God to make him seem to be a High Priest if you wish. I cannot be so bold as to add to God's Word.

Proverbs 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

The Bible only identifies Melchizedek as a Priest... not as a High Priest.

Genesis 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the Priest of the Most High God.

"After the order of" does not mean Melchizedek was a High Priest.

There was an order of Priests that Melchizedek was in. Jesus was the High Priest of that Order.

OLAADEGBU:
Your objection #1 bolded above shows how you just contradicted yourself. You say that the Bible does not say Melchisedec was the High Priest of God and moments later your post below says that he is. Make up your mind, young man!



Confusion.com

olaadegbu, read my post slowly. I did not say Melchizedek was High Priest. I said he was a Priest. You bring the confusion on yourself. I have not said anything confusing.

Just because Melchizedek's name meant "king of righteousness" does not necessitate him being the Lord Jesus Christ. For instance, in Joshua 10, we find a character named Adonizedek, which means "lord of righteousness". Adonizedek was a king in Jerusalem. hmmm, ... "city of peace" at the time that Joshua and Gideon entered and conquered Canaan.

Adonizedek and four other kings fought against Joshua and Gideon. The five kings were shut up in a cave, later brought out of the cave and hanged.

The point being, that names did not necessarily describe who the person was. Just because Melchizedek's name means king of righteousness does not mean he was a righteous king. Yes, he was a Priest of the Most High God. But so were Aaron's sons. And we all know what happened to two of his sons Abihu and Nadab.

OLAADEGBU:
It's either you choose not to read or couldn't read the link I posted earlier. I'll give you no excuse by posting it here:

the article is flawed.

1. The Bible does not say Melchizedek was the High Priest of God... only that he was a Priest.
2. Melchizedek was not Jesus Christ. Hebrews 7 says he was "made like unto the Son of God", not that he was the Son of God. "Like unto" does not mean "is".
3. The Bible does not say that Abram gave tithes when he realized Melchizedek was Jesus Christ. The author has imposed untruths upon the actual account in an attemp to deceive the readers.
4. No, there is no indication that Melchizedek was a Fourth part of the Trinity. Without father, mother, beginning or end of days simply alludes to the fact that we have no genealogical records to tell when he was born or died or who his parents actually were.

the Early Church was not taught to tithe in any of the epistles. God did not see it as necessary.

OLAADEGBU:
Learn from Abraham who tithed to Melchisedec to his children who now tithes to Jesus Christ the High Priest after the order of Melchisedec.

that doesn't even suggest tithing to a Church. There was no Church present in Abram's day.

And the very fact that the Church was in existence for forty-one years while tithes still belonged to the Levites disproves your theory.

OLAADEGBU:
If you are asking for where the bolded sentence is written in the Bible you will not find it just as you will not find words like "trinity", "rapture" or "grandfather" in the authorised version of the Bible but the concept is clearly there.

Where in the Bible is the concept that tithes are given to the Church? Book? Chapter? Verse?

Where is there the remotest suggestion that tithes were given to the Church?

1 Corinthians 9:13-14 has absolutely nothing to do with Pastors of Churches.

The context is speaking of Apostles, those separated from the Local Body of Believers and sent into a lost world to preach the Gospel.

And Paul could not have been speaking of tithes in that passage either. Tithes still belonged to the Levites at that time. Paul was a Benjamite and had no authority to receive tithes.

People often try to use 1 Corinthians 9 to prove that tithes are expected in the Church when that passage cannot be speaking of tithes at all.

Image is constantly vilifying us, trying to paint us as against people giving altogether.

We have consistently said we are not against people giving. We are against people saying God requires tithes of money when His Word never says so. We are against statements like "tithes are given to God through the Church" and that "it is the Word of God" when there is not one iota of Scripture to support such claims.

Where is the Scripture that says "tithes are given to God through the Church"? How do we know God accepts such tithes when there is absolutely no evidence that He ever accepted tithes of money in the Tabernacle or Temple?

Where is the Scripture, Image? You said "it is the Word of God". So, produce the Scripture, or admit that it is not the Word of God but merely your opinion.

Image123:
Go and answer the questions i posed to you, i really don't want to dance with you in unending circles.

And yet, you dance around the false doctrine of the monetary tithe, claiming that The Word of God says it is "given to God through the Church" and that "it is the Word of God" with absolutely no Scriptural support for your claims at all.

You could not prove the monetary tithe requirement to be a Scriptural doctrine during our 58-day theological discuss, and you cannot prove it now.

Image123:
You asked if it's the Word of God, i said it is the word of God. What is avoided again, you didn't get the answer you wish to get?

yeah, but which god? Certainly not the God of Heaven and Earth. In His Word, tithes were never commanded for the New Testament Church, tithes were never carried to the New Testament Church, tithes were never collected in the New Testament Church, & tithes were never controlled by the New Testament Church.

chillykelly86:
Please, how did you arrive at that bolded statement? Is it your word or the Word of God?

since there is no recorded practice of the tithe given to the Church in the Word of God, nor any instruction for tithe to be given to the Church recorded in the Word of God, it is obviously no more than man's opinion that it is to be given to the Church.

One has to add to the Word of God to arrive at the conclusion that tithe is given to God through the Church.

The answer might be, "Hebrews 7:8 says "Here, men that die receive tithes, but there He receives them."

OK, which men that die receive tithes? We all die. So which receive the tithes? The only clue as to who receives tithes is found in Hebrews 7:5, which says that the sons of Levi take the tithes.

Has to be talking about physical descendants of Levi, not Gentile pastors. There is not one Scripture that says one becomes a son of Levi upon taking a pastoral position. So, Scripture still refutes the claim that tithes are to go to Churches on Gentile soil.

Let's roll with your claim that Jesus can collect tithes after the order of Melchizedek.

Tell us, who has the authority to collect tithes on behalf of Jesus, since it is obvious that He is not here Himself to collect them?

Please provide Scripture that says God has appointed certain people in this New Testament era of Grace to collect tithes on His behalf. The only verse I can find that says any man can take tithes of the brethren says it is Levites that have that command.

Where is your verse that says pastors have that command or authority to take tithes?

The tithes Melchizedek received were tithes of the spoils of war, not one's personal income.

What is hindering us from giving the same tithes that Mechizedek received? Oh, that's right... greedy pastors who don't want spoils of war. Pastors who stand to get richer by lies and deceitful manipulation of God's Word rather than waiting several months for a soldier returning from battle. Abram is never said to have tithed UNTIL he was returning from war. He did not tithe his own personal income, ...he tithed war spoils that belonged to someone else.

What hinders others from receiving the tithes? The Word of God. The fact that the pastor is not Melchizedek. The Word of God does not say pastors have a right to receive tithes. If it did, there would be no argument. But, it says the exact opposite. We are to give out of love, and our giving is to be out of our own choosing, not due to pharisaical judging by others.

Image123:
Again, Melchisedek wasn't levite. Jesus the High Priest of priests is of the order of Melchisedek not Aarons. Your blindness to this simple point is pitiable.

Hebrews does say that Jesus is after the order of Melchizedek. I am not blind to that. But is Jesus on the Earth today in person to receive tithes of the brethren? Of course not!

But notice also in Hebrews 7:5, that it is the sons of Levi who God says are to receive the tithes... Levites are to take God's holy tithes, not pastors who are not of the lineage and dscendancy of Levi.

It is not I who is displaying the blindness you speak of. You have three of your own fingers pointing back at you.

Image123:
God, He receiveth them. Will a man rob God?
Oh, the nanny advice. No point telling a blind man that the sky is blue.

of men, it is the Levites who are to receice the tithes. They are the only representatives on Earth to whom God gave authority to take tithes for the House of God.

Blindness to the truth is more detrimental than blindness to color.

OLAADEGBU:
God's Words are timeless and does not change.

you are right... God's Word do not change. Now, tell us who God's Word says are to receive His holy tithes?

It is futile to argue with one who desires to walk in the desert of Sin as the Israelites did. Remember how they complained and were bitter even though God continued to bless them with food and water?

The fact is, those who are Christ's have been brought out of the valley of dry bones. They are now in the land of the living. The Law brought condemnation and death. Christ brought life and liberty.

Sadly, many would rather remain in bondage, looking unto the Law which brings death and condemnation instead of looking to the One who brings life and liberty.

Isaiah 51:2 was speaking to the children of Israel. They were to look to Abraham.

We today are told to look to Christ.

Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Bidam:
Can you quote where the bible call it a pagan land?

While the word "pagan" is not in the Bible, pagan practices can be seen to have been in Jerusalem.

Malachi 2:11 Judah hath dealt treacherously, and an abomination is committed in Israel and in Jerusalem; for Judah hath profaned the holiness of the LORD which he loved, and hath married the daughter of a strange god. (Mal 2:11 KJV)

2 Chronicles 34:1 Josiah was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem one and thirty years.
2 Chronicles 34:2 And he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, and walked in the ways of David his father, and declined neither to the right hand, nor to the left.
2 Chronicles 34:3 For in the eighth year of his reign, while he was yet young, he began to seek after the God of David his father: and in the twelfth year he began to purge Judah and Jerusalem from the high places, and the groves, and the carved images, and the molten images.
2 Chronicles 34:4 And they brake down the altars of Baalim in his presence; and the images, that were on high above them, he cut down; and the groves, and the carved images, and the molten images, he brake in pieces, and made dust of them, and strowed it upon the graves of them that had sacrificed unto them.
2 Chronicles 34:5 And he burnt the bones of the priests upon their altars, and cleansed Judah and Jerusalem.

2 Kings 23:5 And he put down the idolatrous priests, whom the kings of Judah had ordained to burn incense in the high places in the cities of Judah, and in the places round about Jerusalem; them also that burned incense unto Baal, to the sun, and to the moon, and to the planets, and to all the host of heaven.

Notice in 2 Chronicles that Josiah had to purge the "high places" in Jerusalem.

Bidam:
Is Salem a pagan land? yes or no will suffice thanks.

it is obvious that it is pagan now. It was pagan in Abram's day also. There was a time during the Law when it was not pagan. But the Israelites began doing ungodly things and the land became pagan again.

Bidam:
Ok, you are calling God a liar when he told you to look up to Abraham your father abi?

no, I am not calling God a liar.

There is only one verse in the Bible that says to look to Abraham...

Isaiah 51:2 (KJV)
Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah [that] bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him.

God was not speaking to Gentiles there. He was speaking to Israel.

Bidam:
Is Salem a pagan land? How can a righteous king be in a pagan land.

the Bible says we have been made kings and Priests made righteous through Jesus Christ., and yet we are in a pagan land. And Jesus Christ, King of kings took up residence for 33 years in this sinful world.

Bidam:
Do you look up to Abraham your father or is it Paul you look up to?

neither. I look up to Christ. I read both Testaments and hold to truths written in both.

Bidam:
Scripture says no one has seen God. Are you telling us Melchizedek is a pagan king?

melchizedek was a righteous king in a pagan land.

[quote author=Bidam post=28215287][/quote]So you are telling me that there is a requirement for tithes prior to the Law written in the Scriptures? Please provide the Scripture that says this requirement existed.

The Apostle Paul spoke to the Gentile Church of the "washing of water by the Word". Also, we are told of the saving power of the Spirit of God in the epistles.

If we wanted to follow Abram's tithe,

1. It would not be to the House of God. (there was no House of God during that era)
2. It would be of the spoils of war.
3. It would be to a king in a pagan land. (Canaan was not yet inhabited by God's chosen people)