₦airaland Forum

You said, " You must know the Scriptures before you speak".

I do know the Scriptures. A search on NL forums for "A Theological Discuss On Tithing By Rhymeyjohn, Image123, Mark Miwerds & Candour " will reveal that I am very knowledgeable in the Word of God. I was on a debate team in a discussion on tithing that lasted 58 days, covering practically every verse on tithing in the Scriptures.

While our opponents were not convinced at the end of the debate, they failed to convince us to attach ourselves to the pro-tithe side of the debate either. If anything, their constant twisting and adding to Scripture to make it say what it did not say only strengthened our position that God does not require monetary tithes of us today.

robosky02:
you must know the scriptures before you speak

1) the tithe is to be brought to the store house of God. it is not a TAX but a covenant provision to enter into the blessing

Malachi 3:10King James Version (KJV)
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

2) you dont need to go to any canaan to look for where to give your tithe

Jesus speaking to the woman who was looking for maoutain to worship say


John 4:20-24

20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.





so to worship you dont need religious pilgrimage

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
right in the coutry were you are

i do know the Scriptures, that is why I spoke.

The storehouse was in the Temple in Jerusalem... Which was a part of the land of Canaan.

Deuteronomy 12 states that the tithes were not to be observed until the people of God crossed over the Jordan and entered the land of Canaan.

In other words, God did not want His holy tithes to be from Gentile soil. It had to come from crops raised and livestock bred own the land Promised to the Patriarch Jacob.



I find no New Testament Scripture where God amended His holy tithes of agricultural produce and livestock in Canaan to tithes of money on Gentile soil. Therefore, the monetary tithe requirement, being totally foreign to Scripture, is a man-made commandment.

Matthew 15:9 (KJV) 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.

In another post, you mentioned 1 Corinthians 16:1-3. That passage has absolutely nothing to do with tithes. It was a collection for poor saints in another country. Tithes in the Law, which was still being practiced at the time Paul wrote that letter to the Church at Corinth, were not the first of the week... They were at the end of the harvest. They were not stored by the tithers, they were taken to one of forty-eight cities and given to the Sons of Levi. The sons of Levi, in turn, would take a tithe of that tithe to the storehouse.

The storehouse was not a bank located on the other side of town. It was a semi-circular set of rooms attached to the sides and back of the Temple.

robosky02:
tithe was never abolished in the new testament. Jesus said

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Matthew 5:17


he went on to say

Matthew 23:23
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.


the pharises were making a show of how much they give in tithe. which is good but they must be balance in faith too.

that is do all plus give your tithe


he also repeated it in


Luke 11:42 - But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

the last place tithes are commanded in the Bible, Hebrews 7:5-8, they are still to be given to the sons of Levi... not to a pastor whose lineage cannot be traced back to the Levites. The Law further stated that God's holy tithes were to be observed in Canaan.

So, tell us, are you giving those "tithes" to the sons of Levi in Canaan? or to a non-Levitic pastor in another country?

Preciousjoz:
"Ronald W Robey"


thanks for the blog site sir, I really appreciate it!

you are most certainly welcome!

Preciousjoz:
the one about tithing on TB Joshua's thread.

again, whose article? Not what article, but whose article?

If you are meaning me when you said Sir, yes, I do have a blog.

It is at boldproclaimer . wordpress . com
Remove the spaces

Montaque:
good research that was.
If abram's tithe was out of pagan inclination,the writer of hebrews wouldn't have made any sense out of it,cause it wasn't to God. So I don't follow the line that its a pagan doctrine among the chaldeans that abram was keeping. He was paying it to God,there were other kings around,but he chose that of salem. He feared God.
Also the history line you drew hasn't refuted that abram paid tithe,it only tried to bring a different motive to it,which is ungodly and God wouldn't have wanted his people to practice.
Any doubt about genesis will meet a better explanation in hebrews,where the writer showed us that abram paid even for himself and those in his loins. A good analysis of hebrews will tell us better.

Hebrews does not say Abram paid tithes. He gave a temth of the spoils.

Sorry, but in the absense of any Biblical text to prove otherwise, I have to believe that the Historical artifacts reveal the reason Abram gave tithes to Melchizedek was because of the customs of that period of time.

Montaque:
he,abram rather informed the king of sodom that he would not that anything that formally belong to sodom before the war,so that it won't seem abram became rich on their expense(integrity).
All others were for him and his army cum servants.
After that part,he paid his tithe of the remaining spoils of war.
Differentiating between tithe as demanded of the israelites and what abram did on the point of WHAT WAS GIVEN as tithe has to consider the fruit of the substance,what wealth is measured in, cash crop,animals,spoils of war,money, depending on the epoch.
You may say the story is descriptive,but the bottomline was that he paid tithe and understood the concept even before the laws.
What has changed so far is the threat of punishment attached to the concept,cos we are in a different dispensation.

again, Scripture proves you to be incorrect . Notice:

Genesis 14:22 (KJV) 22 And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,

Genesis 14:23 (KJV) 23 That I will not [take] from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that [is] thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:

Genesis 14:24 (KJV) 24 Save only that which the young men have eaten, and the portion of the men which went with me, Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre; let them take their portion.

Abram said he would not take any of the spoils as his own, AND,he would not take any of Bera's recovered spoils either. He only implored that the king give shares to Aner, Eshcol & Mamre. None of it was for him at all.

The text reveals Abram gave the tithe. He did not pay it. There is absolutely nothing in the chapter, nor in Hebrews 7 to indicate it as something owed. The text also reveals that the tithe was given PRIOR TO Abram's speaking to Bera, not after.

Historical research uncovers key information as to why Abram may have given those tithes to Melchizedek.

An Oxford Professor by the name of G. Maspero wrote an interesting book at the torn of the twentieth century AD. That book is called, "The Struggle of Nations". In it, one chapter gives an account of his speaking with the curator at the British Museum. The museum had recently acquired two clay tablets with cuneiform etchings on them.

The etchings show ancient Babylonians and Assyrians tithing of war spoils to their kings.

Pagans tithing war spoils. Isn't it interesting that, under the Mosaic Law God did not require tithes of war spoils, but that He required far, far less from war spoils? But back to the clay tablets and what significant role they may have in revealing Abram's motives for giving that tithe.

The clay tablets, according to Charles Pinches, the curator, were dated to 2200 BC. That's 287 years prior to Abram's mmeting Melchizedek in the Valley of Chaveh. Again, the dating of these tablets is important as we are about to find out.

The Bible discloses to the reader that Abram was from Ur of the Chaldees... a Babylonian country. Abram was a Hebrew familiar with the custom of the Chaldeeans. He would have known it was customary to give a tenth of war spoils to kings. Thus, his honoring Melchizedek with the tenth of the spoils may have been due to custom he was well acquainted with.

Abram's tithe appears to have been voluntary and due to pagan custom. There is no indication in the Word of God that any man prior to Abram gave tithes of war spoils or anything else. So, Biblical texts and Historical records would tell us that Abram tithed to the king Melchizedek simply due to the pagan customs he was familiar with.

As to your argument that it is the penalty that we are not under, I submit to you that it is noy only the penalty, but the Lawas well. Again, Acts 21 clearly has James saying they gave no commandment for the Gentile Believers to keep the Mosaic Law. How are we required to keep a Law that we were never commanded to keep?

Provie:
Great post.
Truth is bitter; but the truth sets free.

thanks.

Montaque:
I am getting you now.
But you have to exclude tithe from the dictates of the law,cos abraham before the law paid tithe to the king of salem,this is in genesis as well as hebrew.
It seems the law added a punishment to the concept. Now that we are under a new dispensation of grace,the addition of the law is to be done away with,that's the threat of punishment introduced by the mosaic law.
I love your analogy of tripoli and its laws

Abram's tithe was not of his own property. He had promised God that he would not keep any of the spoils as his own property.

Also, while it is true that he gave that tithe to a king that represented the Most High God, it is equally true that though it was a tithe, it was not God's holy tithes. God said His holy tithes were agricultural. Abram's tithe was both agricultural and clothing.

We must also take into account that the story as related in Genesis is descriptive, not prescriptive.

Montaque:
it does seem we haven't understood each other.
What I mean is that those rules and regulations we call the laws of moses are just what we are doing today,example,obeying ur parents,even paul charged the galatians thus. If u say we live under the grace,I concur,but to say that we need not keep the law,I disagree.
Please read matthew 5 vs 17 - 20.
Jesus told us the seriousness of those laws.

We do not have to keep the Law. It was for Israel alone.

While some things in the Law seem to be repeated in the Pauline epistles, that does not mean we are to keep the Law. That which is written in the epistles is in a completely different jurisdiction.

Let me give you an example. I was born in Tripoli, Libya. There were laws there that my parents had to observe. When mother moved after my dad's death, the laws of Tripoli did not follow her. We lived in an entirely new jurisdiction. If I stole something here, I would not be tried by the laws of Tripoli. I would be charged under the laws where I live.

Now, as long as I remain where I am, I will not be required to live by the Laws of Tripoli. However, if I should happen to move back to Tripoli, I will be subject to its laws.

It is the same regarding those ordinances of the Old Testament. If I choose to abide in the House of the Law, I am subject to, not just any law I choose to my liking, but to all the Laws cset forth for the residents thereof. If i choose to obey the tithe command, I must obey all other commands that apply to that jurisdiction. This would include animal sacrifices, stoning of disobedient children, not wearing garments that have two different fabrics in the weave, a battlement on my roof, etc..

James said in Acts 21 that there is no command given to Gentiles to keep the Law.Paul said in Romans 4 that we are not under the Law. He said in Romans 7 that it is comparable to adultery to go to the house of the Law. Galatians 3, foolish to subject ourselves to the Law. In 1 Timothy 1, the Law is not for the righteous.

Over and over, in more than the above examples, we are shown that we are not to go under that old system. Best to focus on Christ, and His finished Work.

Montaque:
what's ur opinion on the commandments,are they also the laws we shouldn't be under?
Jesus Christ instructed the young rich ruler to keep all the laws,which he replied that he has kept up from his youth.
He also said he hasn't come to abolish the law but to fulfil it.
Are the laws of Moses now a sin under the grace dispensation?

romans 7 says we who are married to the One who rose from the dead have no business in the Law. It is comparable to adultery. Galatians says it is foolish to submit to the Law. 1 Timothy says the Law is for the ungodly and unrighteous.

We who have trusted Christ are not unrighteous, for we are clothed in His righteousness.

If you love the Lord with all heart, soul and mind, and you love your neighbor as you do yourself, why do you need the Law? We are not told to look to the Law. We are to look to the Lord, walking in the Spirit. For in so doing, the lusts of the flesh will not be yielded to.

koikoi2:
Are u blind, don't read d Bible in piecemeal.

Let to read d whole Bible with understanding from above.

I am blind, as a matter of fact.

But, I have been studying the Bible for three and a half decades and been a licensed minister for two and a half decades.

I know what the Bible says concerning tithes. God never commanded them of those whose homes are on Gentile soil.

koikoi2:
Ignorance is a disease. If u quote James 2:10 then don't forget dat Deuteronomy 22 is also part of d law.

Stone any woman to death if she is guilty of adultery.

Don't eat any fish with scales. and many more like sacrifices peace offering, guilt offering, etc


According to u we shud still practice them?

yes, if you are going to submit one of the Mosaic Laws, Galatians 3:10 states you must continue in all of the Law.

This would include stoning of rebellious children, burnt offerings, and all others

If you submit to one and not the rest, the Bible declares you to be cursed.

adsonstone:
Hello Sir,

I'd like you to answer to these based on your posts.
1. Which of God's word are you referring to?
If it is the Bible, kindly point where it says 'otherwise' about tithe.

2. Can you mention few more nations God gave instructions to other than Israel.

Hello adsonstone,
The following I wrote should answer your questions...

God never commanded anyone in His Word to tithe money to a Church or a Temple. Yet, so many In Churches around the world today are lied to every time the offering plate is passed. “God requires you to tithe your money” is spoken from the pulpit. “If you don’t tithe, you are a God-robber! You are cursed!” Is often shouted to put the laity in a state of guilt and condemnation. Relax Saints of God… Fear not. God never authorized that pastor to speak those deceitful and unkind words to your ears.

Let’s examine the Scriptures and see what they say concerning
God’s commanded tithe, shall we? But first, let us visit two sons of Aaron at the Tabernacle…

Leviticus 10:1-2 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not. And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.

In the above text, two of Aaron’s sons were struck dead because they offered “strange fire” to God upon the altar of the Lord. What exactly was this “strange fire” that they offered that so displeased the Lord? We are not told. But we are given a special insight as to how precise God wants our offerings to Him be. Nadab and Abihu had offered something that God had not commanded.

Now, one would think, “Hey, at least they were offering something to God. What wrong can be in that?” But God said they offered something that was not commanded.

A lesson should be learned by all from the reading of the account of Nadab and Abihu. That lesson is, “Do It By The Book”.

God has given us His Word as an instruction manual. This “manual” tells us what God expects of us as His dear children. If we are disobedient, God’s chastening hand will be upon us. It surely was upon Nadab and Abihu when they offered strange fire upon the altar. The manner in which we are to live is laid out for us in the New Testament section of the Holy Bible.

Now, please don’t go off on a tangent, saying I don’t like the Old Testament. I do. I cherish both the Old and the New. I read them both and learn from them both.

But the fact is, the New contains the pattern by which God wants us to live today. Hebrews 8 tells us that in AD 66 the Old Covenant was ready to pass away and that God was bringing us into a New Covenant. We cannot live in the Old Covenant promises, curses, edicts, laws, statutes, and ordinances. God doesn’t expect us to.

In AD 51, the Apostles met in Jerusalem with the religious leaders of the day. Their order of meeting was to discuss Gentiles who had been recently converted to faith in Christ. The religious leaders of Jerusalem were insisting that the Gentiles had to keep the Law of Moses or they could not be saved.

The Apostle Peter spoke before them all, rebuking them for placing a yoke upon the Gentile Brethren that neither the Jews of that day, nor their ancestors could keep themselves. Peter told them they were tempting God in their demands. The Apostle James said the religious leaders were overthrowing the souls of the Gentiles.

At the close of the meeting, James wrote a letter to the Gentile Believers and sent it to them by the hands of Paul and Barnabas, telling the Gentiles that the Apostles had given no such command that they keep the Law. He also sent Judas and Silas with the same words, but not written… they were to speak to the Gentiles, telling them that they were not commanded to keep the Mosaic Law. The Mosaic Law was part of an Old Covenant that was soon to pass away.

In many Churches around the world today, there is a doctrine being taught that could be called “strange fire”. That doctrine is the monetary tithe requirement doctrine.

Pastors will stand in their pulpits and preach from the Old Covenant the command to tithe that was given to Israel. But, they replace the tithe God commanded, an agricultural tithe, with a tithe consisting of money. It no longer is the tithe that God required of Israel. It has become “strange fire.”

No longer the agricultural tithe that was commanded by God for the children of Israel in Mount Sinai, (Leviticus 27:30-34) it is now a monetary tithe. No longer a tithe that was to be given to Levites, to widows, to orphans, to strangers in Israel, (Numbers18:21,24,26,28; Deuteronomy 14:22-29; Nehemiah 10:37-38) it is now given to pastors of Churches around the world.

The “tithes” were good when God had control of them, but modern-day Nadab’s, modern-day Abihu’s have turned them into a “strange fire” which God never commanded. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Many pastors today are tempting God and putting a yoke upon their congregations that God never authorized them to do.

Search the Scriptures. When you do, you will find that God’s holy tithe was never commanded for the New Testament Church, never carried to the New Testament Church, never collected in the New Testament Church, and never controlled by the New Testament Church.

Pastors would do well to set aside this sin of preaching a strange fire and offering it to God in the Sunday prayers. Seek out what the New Covenant says concerning the saved and their giving. They are not to be coerced into giving, they are not to be made to fear a curse from God. Rather, they should be taught to give simply because “they love Jesus.”

Teach them as the Apostle Paul taught the saints and brethren at the Church in Corinth… as they purpose in their hearts to give, give cheerfully and willingly God will be honored more by a loving offering than by “strange fire”

Do it by the Book

People, If you insist that God requires you to tithe, that you are being obedient to God and His Holy Word, at least have the decency and respect for God and His Holy Word to do it in accordance to what He has written in His Holy Word.

When you tithe, don’t take it to a Church in a Gentile land. God never commanded such. Instead, do it by the book, as God commanded, and take it to the Promised Land. ( Deut. 12:1,10-11)

When you tithe, don’t give it to a Gentile preacher. God never commanded that. Instead, do it by the book, as God commanded, and take it to the Levite, the widow, the orphan and the foreigner (which would include yourself) in the Promised Land. ( Deut 14:22-29 )

When you tithe, don’t tithe money. God never commanded such a tithe. Instead, do it by the book, as God commanded, and tithe agricultural products that are grown in the Promised Land. (Leviticus 27:30-33)

If you insist on tithing, don’t tithe that which comes from Gentile hands on Gentile soil. God never commanded it. Instead, do it by the book, as God commanded, and move to the Promised land Israel so you can cultivate the land and have the tithe that God required in the Mosaic Law.

But remember…
.Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

If you are not going to “Do It By The Book”, don’t try to convince me that you are being obedient to God in tithing. It is just the opposite… you are being rebellious to what He decreed concerning how His holy tithe was to be observed and kept.

Maybe it’s best you stop offending in that point of the Law and just submit to God’s will concerning your giving today.

2 Corinthians 9:6-7 But this [I say], He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, [so let him give]; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

God does not require tithe of your money. Instead, He wants you to give simply out of your love for Him.
Not as others dictate, but as you choose in your heart. Give with a willing heart; not because you have to, but because you want to… and He will be pleased.

Preciousjoz:
sir I just read your article on FP and I would like to ask if you own a blog? if yes, can you share the link? many thanks sir!

whose article? You just said "Sir". There are many men on the thread.

I wrote this article yesterday afternoon...

What Is Your Problem?
by Ronald W Robey

Do you tithe 10% of your income to your local Church? Have you “tithed” faithfully for several years and not seen the results that you expected? The Preacher promised you God would “rebuke the devourer” if you would just obey the command to tithe, and yet, you still experience many health problems? Your garden doesn't seem to flourish as well as it should?

Let me ask….

Would you consider not tithing 10% of your income to your Church? Believe it or not, those health problems may be directly connected to your tithing. Your vegetation not flourishing may be directly related to your tithing. Notice:

Deuteronomy 28:35 The LORD shall smite thee in the knees, and in the legs, with a sore botch that cannot be healed, from the sole of thy foot unto the top of thy head.

The above verse, and pretty much the whole chapter beginning at verse 14, is God’s pronouncement of the curses that He gave to the children of Israel for disobedience to His Law. Notice the above verse says the LORD would place a botch (skin cancer) in the knees and legs, even on the whole body because of disobedience to the Law that He handed down to Moses for the children of Israel. And not just botches, but madness, (insanity) blindness, and astonishment of the heart. (confusion)

You may say, “Yes, but I am not under the Law. I am under Grace. Those illnesses and curses cannot apply to me.”

Oh really? Have you considered the following verse?

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Stop and think for a moment. Is not the command to tithe a command in the Mosaic Law? Are you not attempting to keep that one command written in the Law?

But though you attempt to obey God's command to tithe, the fact is, you fail miserably... even when you give 10% of your money faithfully to your local pastor.

Notice the command concerning God's holy tithes. Read it carefully and prayerfully...

Leviticus 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD’S: it is holy unto the LORD.
Leviticus 27:31 And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
Leviticus 27:32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
Leviticus 27:33 He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

The answer is obvious. It is indeed in the Mosaic Law. There is no command for tithes prior to the Mosaic Law being handed down to Moses. Nor is there a command to tithe after the destruction of the Jewish Temple in AD 70.

And the Word of God says if you wish to be under the Law, you must keep the whole Law. (see Gal. 3:10 above) Now realize this...

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.


When you heard your pastor preach that Malachi 3:8-10 is God command for you to tithe, and you yielded to that message, you placed yourself in the jurisdiction of the Mosaic Law, its blessings, and it’s curses included.

Package deal.

Now, you might think. “But I am tithing, so I am not breaking the Law. Therefore, the curses associated with breaking the Law cannot be applied to my situation.” Again, you would be wrong… for the following two reasons.

1. Galatians 3:10 above says if you place yourself under the Law, you are a debtor to do the whole Law…. not just tithing. You must obey all the commandments contained in the ordinances of the Mosaic Law if you submit to any one of those commandments.

2. James 2:10 states that if we offend in one point of the Law, we are guilty of all the Law. Again, it is a package deal. Even if you were not required to keep the other commandments contained in the ordinances of the Mosaic Law, and the only command you were required to keep was the tithe command, you have still failed miserably.

God said His holy tithes were to be agricultural, not money. (see Leviticus 27:30-33 above) Because you choose to place yourself under the jurisdiction of the Mosaic Law, you break the Law when you attempt to tithe money instead of agricultural produce and livestock as the Law commands.

Further, God said His tithe was to go to the Levites, widows, orphans and strangers dwelling in Canaan, (see Numbers 18:21-28; Deuteronomy 14:28-29) not to pastors of Church's on Gentile soil.

As you can see, it is possible that your skin cancer, your bad knees, your many health problems, may well be a result of your tithing. You have placed yourself under the Law and may be reaping the consequences of disobedience to that Law.

Might be a good time to read Deuteronomy 28 in its entirety to see if any of the other curses might apply to your current situation.

Uh-huh.

Oh, doctors may be able to treat the skin cancer. They may be able to do knee replacement as well. They may even be able to treat many other illnesses you have contracted. But at what cost? Money that your household could have used, money that your neighbor could have used, gone to doctors and hospitals instead.

But we have the Great Physician named Jesus Christ who also has the answer in His Word.

Get out of the house of the Law. You don’t belong there. (Romans 7:1-4) You are married to the One who rose from the dead… act like it! Stop attempting to obey a Law that was never meant for you to obey.(Psalm 147:19-20 )

As long as you remain unfaithful to God, you will remain in His sore displeasure.

It’s either the Law, or it’s Grace. You must choose which you want to live under. But, you cannot have the best of both worlds. In the Law, there is no “best”. The Law brings death because man is unable to keep it in its entirety. Grace brings life and liberty to those to whom God has bestowed it upon.

In Malachi, the entire nation of Israel was under the curse because of the actions of the Priests. Deuteronomy 28 reveals that family and nation alike will be affected by disobedience to the Law.

The Law was never meant for us. Who has bewitched you into placing yourself in its jurisdiction. Make your way to the nearest exit as quickly as possible.

Walk in Grace.

Makweembo:
On Sunday 18th January 2015, Nigerian Pastor T.B. Joshua cautioned pastors against trying to compel people to give offerings in the church and politicians against trying to force people to love them through wild promises made during elections.

“It’s Scriptural to ask for offering and tithes but it has to come from the heart,” the cleric told his congregation in an impromptu message. “Anything that does not come from your heart becomes a curse to the person you give… We ministers of God should allow the congregation to bless us, not curse us with their possessions.”

He cited the case of people who attain wealth through bribery and corruption, insisting that the repercussions are severe. “If you collect a bribe, you can’t get anywhere with it. You may be rich now but at the end of your life, you will cry,” he admonished in a message televised live on Christian television station Emmanuel TV.

“Let me suffer now and laugh tomorrow. Let me be poor now and blessed tomorrow. That should be the life we live,” he added.

The known philanthropist counselled people to consider history to learn lessons from those in the past who lived big through corrupt means. “If somebody becomes so rich, if what he is having that made him to be rich is not from people’s hearts - it’s by corruption or bribery - you will cry for the person someday.”

“If people that are collecting bribes know all of this, they will stop collecting bribes,” he continued. “The repercussions are not midway. They come at the end when we have no strength again to do the right thing. The money, mansions and possessions will collapse… The beginner is not the owner but the finisher. Whatever you do – remember where you are going.”

He further decried politicians trying to coerce love from people, especially during the period of elections. “You can’t force someone to love you. In elections, you see political parties campaigning, saying they will build mansions, bring constant electricity and water… Love should be given voluntarily – without being forced.”

Joshua also spoke scathingly of pastors who always emphasized money in their sermons, to the point that they would even fight members who stopped paying tithes or attending services. “I did not know when you came here, so when you are going, it is unnecessary for me to know. You want to fight a member because he left your church. Whose church? God’s church. Christianity is a thing of the heart,” he said.

“If you give something from your heart, it will bless you that gives it and also bless the person you give. But if you give something that is not from your heart, you that gave has nothing to gain and you are giving a curse to that person,” he reiterated.

He then challenged the congregants to examine their lives. “Count how many curses you have received to build your mansions, have your possessions and enjoy your fame and popularity,” he told them.

The cleric revealed this is the reason behind his extensive philanthropic endeavours and non-emphasis on money during his sermons. “Why would I not give freely when I know if you give something from your heart, you will receive a double portion of it? That is the secret of giving.”

He advised the faithful to help the less privileged in their own area in order to enjoy the blessings of God. “Sell those properties and possessions you don’t use, open a charity account, put that money there, sit down and begin to bless the needy. See what God will do for you. The finger of God will stand to fight for you,” he advised.

He also encouraged Christians to remember they are undeserving of God’s blessings, an understanding that should reflect in their attitudes. “God is giving you another chance. Don’t abuse it,” he warned. “If you know that you are given another chance, you must treasure it. We treasure things when we know we are undeserving but today, we live as if we deserve things.”

He admonished people to remember that God would ultimately ‘mark their work’ “If you know you are undeserving of the life you are living now, whatever you attempt to do, after you finish doing it, you should wait and let God mark it. He may say it’s wrong; He may say it’s right. If God says it’s wrong, we shouldn’t lament because you live a life of grace.”

He reminded them that ‘God had the final say’. “You have been allowing challenges to destroy you instead of you to destroy challenges. When challenges come – my God has the final say, not my ability or knowledge.”

SOURCE: http://www.nigerianeye.com/2015/01/tb-joshua-lambasts-money-hungry-pastors.html

It is ironic how T.B. Joshua stated that God had the final say, yet T.B. does not allow God to say it.

T.B. instead insists that it is right to take tithes. God's Word says otherwise. God's Word says His holy tithes were to be observed in Israel, and that commandment to tithe He gave to no other nation.

T.B. Joshua is placing his opinion above God's Word. Very dangerous.

From my Blog:
"Do It By The Book"

God never commanded anyone in His Word to tithe money to a Church or a Temple. Yet, so many In Churches around the world today are lied to every time the offering plate is passed. “God requires you to tithe your money” is spoken from the pulpit. “If you don’t tithe, you are a God-robber! You are cursed!” Is often shouted to put the laity in a state of guilt and condemnation. Relax Saints of God… Fear not. God never authorized that pastor to speak those deceitful and unkind words to your ears.

Let’s examine the Scriptures and see what they say concerning
God’s commanded tithe, shall we? But first, let us visit two sons of Aaron at the Tabernacle…

Leviticus 10:1-2 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not. And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.

In the above text, two of Aaron’s sons were struck dead because they offered “strange fire” to God upon the altar of the Lord. What exactly was this “strange fire” that they offered that so displeased the Lord? We are not told. But we are given a special insight as to how precise God wants our offerings to Him be. Nadab and Abihu had offered something that God had not commanded.

Now, one would think, “Hey, at least they were offering something to God. What wrong can be in that?” But God said they offered something that was not commanded.

A lesson should be learned by all from the reading of the account of Nadab and Abihu. That lesson is, “Do It By The Book”.

God has given us His Word as an instruction manual. This “manual” tells us what God expects of us as His dear children. If we are disobedient, God’s chastening hand will be upon us. It surely was upon Nadab and Abihu when they offered strange fire upon the altar. The manner in which we are to live is laid out for us in the New Testament section of the Holy Bible.

Now, please don’t go off on a tangent, saying I don’t like the Old Testament. I do. I cherish both the Old and the New. I read them both and learn from them both.

But the fact is, the New contains the pattern by which God wants us to live today. Hebrews 8 tells us that in AD 66 the Old Covenant was ready to pass away and that God was bringing us into a New Covenant. We cannot live in the Old Covenant promises, curses, edicts, laws, statutes, and ordinances. God doesn’t expect us to.

In AD 51, the Apostles met in Jerusalem with the religious leaders of the day. Their order of meeting was to discuss Gentiles who had been recently converted to faith in Christ. The religious leaders of Jerusalem were insisting that the Gentiles had to keep the Law of Moses or they could not be saved.

The Apostle Peter spoke before them all, rebuking them for placing a yoke upon the Gentile Brethren that neither the Jews of that day, nor their ancestors could keep themselves. Peter told them they were tempting God in their demands. The Apostle James said the religious leaders were overthrowing the souls of the Gentiles.

At the close of the meeting, James wrote a letter to the Gentile Believers and sent it to them by the hands of Paul and Barnabas, telling the Gentiles that the Apostles had given no such command that they keep the Law. He also sent Judas and Silas with the same words, but not written… they were to speak to the Gentiles, telling them that they were not commanded to keep the Mosaic Law. The Mosaic Law was part of an Old Covenant that was soon to pass away.

In many Churches around the world today, there is a doctrine being taught that could be called “strange fire”. That doctrine is the monetary tithe requirement doctrine.

Pastors will stand in their pulpits and preach from the Old Covenant the command to tithe that was given to Israel. But, they replace the tithe God commanded, an agricultural tithe, with a tithe consisting of money. It no longer is the tithe that God required of Israel. It has become “strange fire.”

No longer the agricultural tithe that was commanded by God for the children of Israel in Mount Sinai, (Leviticus 27:30-34) it is now a monetary tithe. No longer a tithe that was to be given to Levites, to widows, to orphans, to strangers in Israel, (Numbers18:21,24,26,28; Deuteronomy 14:22-29; Nehemiah 10:37-38) it is now given to pastors of Churches around the world.

The “tithes” were good when God had control of them, but modern-day Nadab’s, modern-day Abihu’s have turned them into a “strange fire” which God never commanded. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Many pastors today are tempting God and putting a yoke upon their congregations that God never authorized them to do.

Search the Scriptures. When you do, you will find that God’s holy tithe was never commanded for the New Testament Church, never carried to the New Testament Church, never collected in the New Testament Church, and never controlled by the New Testament Church.

Pastors would do well to set aside this sin of preaching a strange fire and offering it to God in the Sunday prayers. Seek out what the New Covenant says concerning the saved and their giving. They are not to be coerced into giving, they are not to be made to fear a curse from God. Rather, they should be taught to give simply because “they love Jesus.”

Teach them as the Apostle Paul taught the saints and brethren at the Church in Corinth… as they purpose in their hearts to give, give cheerfully and willingly God will be honored more by a loving offering than by “strange fire”

Do it by the Book

People, If you insist that God requires you to tithe, that you are being obedient to God and His Holy Word, at least have the decency and respect for God and His Holy Word to do it in accordance to what He has written in His Holy Word.

When you tithe, don’t take it to a Church in a Gentile land. God never commanded such. Instead, do it by the book, as God commanded, and take it to the Promised Land. ( Deut. 12:1,10-11)

When you tithe, don’t give it to a Gentile preacher. God never commanded that. Instead, do it by the book, as God commanded, and take it to the Levite, the widow, the orphan and the foreigner (which would include yourself) in the Promised Land. ( Deut 14:22-29 )

When you tithe, don’t tithe money. God never commanded such a tithe. Instead, do it by the book, as God commanded, and tithe agricultural products that are grown in the Promised Land. (Leviticus 27:30-33)

If you insist on tithing, don’t tithe that which comes from Gentile hands on Gentile soil. God never commanded it. Instead, do it by the book, as God commanded, and move to the Promised land Israel so you can cultivate the land and have the tithe that God required in the Mosaic Law.

But remember…
.Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

If you are not going to “Do It By The Book”, don’t try to convince me that you are being obedient to God in tithing. It is just the opposite… you are being rebellious to what He decreed concerning how His holy tithe was to be observed and kept.

Maybe it’s best you stop offending in that point of the Law and just submit to God’s will concerning your giving today.

2 Corinthians 9:6-7 But this [I say], He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, [so let him give]; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

God does not require tithe of your money. Instead, He wants you to give simply out of your love for Him.
Not as others dictate, but as you choose in your heart. Give with a willing heart; not because you have to, but because you want to… and He will be pleased.

[quote author=OLAADEGBU post=28908607][/quote]There is an old saying, "Tell a lie often enough, the gullible will accept it as truth."

So many have told the lie that "Melchizedek/Melchisedec was Jesus Christ" for so long that the gullible have accepted it as truth. The fact is, it is not truth, as the text clearly states. Melchisedec was made "like unto" the Son of God. "Like unto" denotes comparison. Melchisedec was being compared to the Son of God in Hebrews 7.

If they were one and the same person, "like unto" would not have been present in the text.

Judaism never followed the Christ. That is why they find it so hard to accept His virgin birth.

They were so much against Christ, that they nailed Him to the cross by proxy. Then, they invented a Christ that was a mere mortal, conceived by a union between a man and a woman.

OLAADEGBU:
Is that the only thing you could point out in the article. If you must deflect from the main issue you should place it in it's context. Jesus can be said to be the Son of God depending on the context. He is the Son of God by eternal generation (Heb.1:3), He is also the Son of God by miraculous conception (Heb.1:5) which was the context in which the article you are referring to used. Jesus can also be said to be the Son of God when referring to His bodily resurrection (Acts 13:33; Psalm 2:7; Rom.1:4).

This is why you shouldn't take one verse and run with it without comparing it with the rest of the Scriptures. Now, what have you learnt from the solved mystery of Melchisedek as revealed in the Scriptures?

It was already pointed out that Melchizedek and Christ could not have been the same, Olaa. DJ did not need to point out what was already pointed out.

Melchizedek was made like unto the Son of God. The phrase "like unto" is used 37 times in the KJV New Testament Scriptures. Each time prior to Hebrews 7:3, it is used to show comparison between two different subjects. "Heaven... like unto... leaven" "Heaven... like unto... net", etc.. It is not the net, it is not the leaven, but is compared to such. Hebrews 7 is no different. It compares two historical figures... Melchisedec and the Son of God. Melchisededec was not the Son of God, he was compared to Him.

And as DJ so rightly pointed out, Jesus was God's Son prior to the virgin birth.

It is funny that you tell DJ not to take one verse and run with it, when that is exactly what you are guilty of doing. You are trying to make Hebrews 7:3 say what it does not by running with it and relying on fallible commentaries to agree with your error.

Image123:
There you go again in hypocrisy. Stop 'threatening' people not to tithe or teach tithe, especially when you have issues with others 'threatening' people to tithe. God is not going to stop anybody from entering His eternal kingdom because he tithed or preached tithes. It is not right to be manipulative in order to stop others from being manipulated by another others.

Sorry, but the Word clearly says those that "maketh and loveth a lie" will be outside the city.

Your argument is not with me, it is with what the God clearly says.

Revelation 22:15 For without (outside) are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

One that lies consistently, (maketh a lie) saying God requires tithes of money, will be found outside.
One that embraces that lie (loveth a lie) that God requires tithes of money, will be found outside.

Believe what you will, but my God is not a liar. If He said those who love and make a lie will be outside the city, I believe Him.

Pastors and those not pastors alike who will defend monetary tithe requirement teachers really should rethink their positions. Especially in light of Revelation 22:15.

Revelation 22:15 (KJV) 15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Those that make and love a lie, ("God requires you to tithe your money"; "God said if you tithe your money to the Church, He will open the floodgates of Heaven and bless you abundantly" ) are promised denial of entrance into God's eternal Kingdom.

OLAADEGBU:
Salem means "peace"

"To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace" (Hebrew 7:2)

As is clearly written above, the name Melchisedec means "King of righteousness" and Salem means "peace". He is also identified as "priest of the most high God". There is no evidence of a city called Jerusalem at the time Abraham met with Melchisedec, the city was only formed years afterwards.

Foolishness. Pure foolishness, Olaadegbu.

Adonizedek means "lord of righteousness" But Adonizedek was not righteous at all. Matter of fact, his unrighteous acts caused him to be hanged.

Just because a person has a name that has righteousness as a meaning does not necessitate that he was righteous.

Genesis 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
Genesis 14:19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
Genesis 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

Notice in verse 18, Moses wrote "and he was the Priest of the Most High God." Had it been a Theophany as Morris claimed in your quoted commentary paragraph, the verse would not have said "he was the Priest of the Most High God." It would have simply said 'He was the Most High God.'

He was the Priest of God, he was not God.

OLAADEGBU:
Did you read that it is commonly assumed that Salem was the original name of Jerusalem from the excerpt I posted? and that "there is no other record of such a city" at the time Abram met Melchisedek, either in archaeology or Scripture.

"In Salem also is his tabernacle, and his dwelling place in Zion" (Psalm 76:2).

Was the city of Jerusalem existing at the time Abraham gave his tithes to Melchisedec?

Here is a bible commentary throwing more light on Psalm 76:2

Your "commentary" is wrong. I notice that it is, once again, coming from ICR. Now, while Henry Morris was good at his explanation of creation and defending a young Earth, his interpretations of other passages were not flawless.

As is easily seen in his claim that Salem in Genesis 14 was not an earthly city, but a heavenly one and that Melchizedek was a Theophany.

I have to agree with DJ, throw that commentary away. It is not as reliable as the Word of God. When any commentary contradicts the Word of God, that commentary has proven itself worthless.

Bidam:
So if God's tent is in salem. Are you saying God is Melchizedek? . You see how you contradict yourself again.

Did I say God was Melchizedek? No! I did not!

David wrote Psalm 76 centuries after Abram's meeting with Melchizedek.

Nice try, but it didn't work. Now try being honest.

Bidam:
How did the dead sea scroll contradicts bible text? Have you heard of the dead sea scroll? Your article is a big contradiction to Melchizedek of the Bible.

No, my article does not contradict the Bible.

Psalm 76:2 identifies Salem as Mount Zion. Mount Zion is also known as Jerusalem.

the difference in what I posted and what you posted is obvious. Concerning what my article says about Melchizedek, it is in agreement with the Biblical text. The Qumran contradicts the Biblical text.

Bidam:
Read this article. It will be of help in understanding who Melchizedek really is.

i have no need to read the article. The Bible tells me who he was.

King of Salem
Priest of the Most High God
Made like unto the Son of God

He was an established king and Priest of an established earthly kingdom. He was not the Son of God, but was made like unto the Son of God.

OLAADEGBU:
Have you heard of a theophany before?

of course I have heard of a Theophany before. A Theophany is the appearance of God or a god to a human. Melchizedek was not a Theophany, nor a Christophany. He was an established king of an established earthly kingdom.

Psalms 76:2 (KJV) 2 In Salem also is his tabernacle, and his dwelling place in Zion.

Jerusalem is also known as Mount Zion. There's the connection. Salem is Jerusalem.

Melchizedek was king of Salem, but not a Theophany.

OLAADEGBU:
Where is this Salem that Melchisedek lived and ruled in?

melchizedek's kingdom was an earthly kingdom. Jesus' Kingdom is not of this world. Jesus was not Melchizedek.