₦airaland Forum

OLAADEGBU: It should then follow that the same "Babylonians" must have taught you how not to tithe as you are advocating today. Simples.

Actually, it is the Word of God that taught me that I am not required to tithe. God's Word says He did not give the tithe command to Gentile nations.

OLAADEGBU: Who taught Abraham how to tithe? If you are a child of Abraham you will know the why, who, when, how and what to tithe. Simples.

strong possibility that the Babylonians taught Abram the practice of tithing from the spoils of war, seeing that they did exactly that for at least 287 years prior to Abram's tithe to Melchizedek. Ur, (where Abram was from) was a Babylonian country. He would have been well aware of the practice.

OLAADEGBU: If you are a child of Abraham then follow his example. Simples.

Abraham's example: Rescue a kidnapped relative. Kill the kidnappers. Take any property that the kidnappers may have stolen. Give 10% of that property to a king (not pastor) and the remaining 90% to its rightful owners.

OK, if any relative of mine is ever kidnapped, I'll follow Abraham's example.

If tithes are "normally voluntary" as Wikipedia claims, why is it that every single Church I have ever visited (and I have been to many over the last thee decades) tells their congregation that God will curse them if they don't tithe, that they are robbing God if they don't tithe? Why is it that all tithe advocates on youtube do the same?

Wikipedia may say tithing is "normally voluntary", but it is obvious it is not.

nora544: No that is not right it was not money my problem is i have it in germany my mother toungh and it about tithing in germany and that they build houses that they can keep the tithing what was always agricultur products.

I will look if I can translate it for you.

I can tell you that i was searching about it in the history about austria, which was 100 years before an empire but what I have found you can read about churchtax here in europa now.

nora, you seem to be mistaking church tax with tithes. They are not the same.

Temple taxes existed in ancient Israel at the same time that tithes existed.

The Catholic church invented the monetary tithe. History records this to be fact.

nora544: This is from the Uk church.

What I know about tithing here in Europa not the island is a little be different.

council of Macon, Lateran Council... These Councils were the Catholic Church.

At Macon, it was decided that the original tithe be resurrected. This was the Levitic tithe of crops and livestock.

In AD 777, under the rule of Charlamagne amended the crops & livestock tithe to include money. Thus, the origin of the monetary tithe... in the Catholic Church.

nora544: It was no money at that time, it was the fruits from the land!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was never money also from the catholic church.

I have some documents about it but all are in german perhaps I have time to translate it.

But the modern tithing like i know it from nigeria and this new churches in america we didnot have it here in europa.

Nora, here is an excerpt from a book written in 1648 that shows a rebuke to the Catholic Church for demanding tithes of money...



…And alas! The greatest work you do, is to picked and penned sermons a week (and then over and over) and rail against the Sectaries, and oh! Such an one is cried up as a very rare, zealous, good Churchman, and made the only Oracle, and this is the brave watching over the flock: Is this going from house to house? Is this meeting to comfort and exhort each other? Was this all the Apostles and Disciples of Christ did, to be penned up in a closet 3 or 4 days a week, or as some to lie in the Ale house so long? Oh sad age! When the leaders of the people shall cause them to err, see what the Lord saith of such false prophets, Jeremiah 23: 13-17, 22-23, 26-28, 30-32. And certainly, should we see the downfall of your means, we should soon behold the downfall of your ministry; that being the grand prop thereof, and therefore rather then you will trust God for your maintenance, you will take (nay, force) the legal maintenance of tithes from the people, which was only given to the priests under the Law for their service, the reason why it was given, was, because they had no inheritance among their Brethren, they being one of the ten tribes, which they took only of their Brethren, and that not by compulsion: but there is no equality that our priests should have it, First, because they are not a hundred part of the people, Secondly, because they have temporal inheritance among their Brethren, those priests had but the tenth of the increase, ours of poor men’s labours, the priests under the law were not so covetous as ours, for they gave one tenth to the Lord, ate one part with those that paid them, and the rest was laid up for the poor and strangers, and therefore were to have the storehouses for that purpose, but ours get all to themselves and instead of bringing into the storehouses for the poor and strangers, they cry out to bring into their storehouses, and for that purpose abuse that place in Malachi 3:10 which was lawful then but not now. Christ having put an end to the priesthood, hath also changed the Law, Hebrews 7, which was tithes, Therefore to take tithes under the Gospel, there being not the least syllable for it (the Apostles never owning it) is abominable heresy (though not mentioned in the book of Heresies) and a denying Christ come in the flesh. And certainly, were you not willfully blind you might see God blasting them, for it is remarkable that scarce any of your posterity comes to any thing, but are generally miserable.—“The Gainsayer Convinced”, p. 6, written in 1648

OLAADEGBU: Money is certainly need to further the gospel. I can understand why the haters of the Kingdom of Christ would disagree.

There you go doing satan's job again... falsely accusing the Brethren. smh

We are not "haters of the Kingdom of Christ", no matter how much you want to accuse us of such.

Continue to lie against those of us who are preaching and teaching truth, (without charge) and you may find yourself one day crying for one drop of water as the rich man in Luke's Gospel did.

OLAADEGBU: Only if you show me where they stopped giving tithes in the NT.

Hebrews 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

What commandment was the author of Hebrews speaking of in that verse, Olaadegbu? Answer if you can?

Hebrews 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

Hebrews 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

Context shows it is the carnal commandment of tithing. Verse 18 clearly shows the carnal commandment of tithing was disannulled, cancelled.

There is no other command mentioned in the context, it is tithing that has been done away with.

OLAADEGBU: You are putting the cart before the horse. No genuine minister will ask sinners to pay him for preaching the gospel. Tithes and offerings given in the church the minister belongs to sponsors true ministers and missionaries to preach the true gospel of the kingdom.

Sorry, but Paul never said pastors were entitled to tithes of money. Admit it and move on.

OLAADEGBU: You should also remember that the widow also gave her all out of love. You don't have to be rich to tithe your income. That is why tithe which is a form of giving is 10% of your income.



God deserves our best not what is left.



You are taking what Paul said out of context. The fact that Paul did not take advantage of this provision does not mean that it is wrong for FT ministers to live of the gospel. (See 1 Cor.9:11-15)

"If we have sown to you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?" (1 Cor.9:11).

You are taking verses 11-15 out of context. Read the whole Chapter. Context shows that Paul was speaking of food. Context also shows that when Paul wrote verse 14, he was speaking of Apostles such as himself. He was not speaking of Pastors/Elders/Bishops.

OLAADEGBU: Can you direct me to where you've been advocating for Christian giving and stewardship on this forum?

Oct 21, 2013 4:41 PM... I clealrly said God said our giving should be as we choose to give.

OLAADEGBU: You do not believe in monetary tithing but do you believe in monetary offerings?

If a Church is disposed to meeting in buildings, then it stands to reason electricity and water will be needed.

One cannot pay the water bill with carrots and onions, can one? Hence, monetary offerings are encouraged if one wants to keep the water flowing and the electric lights on.

But, ... the local Body should not be forced to give "X" amount of dollars. If they love God, then they will give out of a willing heart to meed the monetary needs for the building they assemble in. If they don't love God, then why assemble in the first place?

nora544: It was no money at that time, it was the fruits from the land!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was never money also from the catholic church.

I have some documents about it but all are in german perhaps I have time to translate it.

But the modern tithing like i know it from nigeria and this new churches in america we didnot have it here in europa.

Nora, the monetary tithe requirement lie was invented by the Catholic Church in AD 777 under the rule of Charlemagne.

This is not only revealed in the Catholic Encyclopedia, but also in the Encyclopedia Britannica of 1911.

OLAADEGBU: What about the saying that "money is the vehicle of the gospel"? Jesus is definitely our message. Are you saying that we don't need money to promote the gospel? The anti tithers surely need money to print their anti tithe tracts just as true believers need money to print gospel tracts, no?

One does not need money to promote the Gospel, Olaadegbu.

I can witness Christ's death, burial and resurrection to someone without telling them I need to be paid... and so can anyone else.

OLAADEGBU: What you anti tithers fail to realise is that giving in the new testament exceed the tithes given on the OT. The early Christians did not limit it to just 10% they gave their all. They honoured the Lord with their substance which is quite different from what you folks are advocating. If you anti tithers would have your way you would rather that the Church be starved of funds so that the gospel be hindered.

"Do you not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so has the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel" (1 Cor. 9:13-14).

The Early Church gave out of love, not by commandment. Some gave all, some did not.

Remember the story of Ananias and Sapphira? What did Peter tell them about the money they received from sale of property. He said it was theirs to do as they wished. They were not required to give all. Had Ananias not lied, had he just said "I sold some property and would like to contribute a portion of the price to helping the community", no doubt he would have been able to walk away from the Apostle. Ananias' sin was not in deciding how much he would give to the Church. His sin was in lying to the Holy Ghost.

We are told how to be proper stewards of our monies. We are instructed not to give in such a manner that others will be eased and ourselves burdened. We are told to give as we purpose in our hearts to give and to give that cheerfully.

Why do you frown on our giving according to Biblical guidelines set forth for Gentile Churches?

Also, concerning starving the Church of funds and thereby hindering the Gospel... The Apostle Paul seemed to have another angle on that. He told the Corinthians that he would not take money from them lest the Gospel be hindered.

OLAADEGBU: In other words, the people of God will be free from giving to God and cheerfully give the least if at all.

Go ahead and mock, Olaadegbu. You only show more of your ignorance of what God's Word says concerning our giving and stewardship.

OLAADEGBU: God gave you a ministry to prevent believers from giving in His Church?! Has it ever crossed your mind that you might have mistaken God for the devil?

No, Olaadegbu. I encourage giving. I frown on people giving because of lies told from such as you.

God's Word tells us we should give. What it does not tell us to do, is tithe our money. The monetary tithe is a lie invented by the Catholic Church and believed and endorsed by simple people who don't believe God's Word concerning tithes.

Leviticus 10:1-2 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not. And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.

God never said the commanded tithe was to be a free will offering. Tithe advocates constantly add to the Word of God in order to deceive more people into giving away their money under false pretenses.

Bidam: What i mean by carnality is your attitude against any form of giving to God whether it is Tithes or offerings.We have stated time and again on this forum that you first give your HEART to God every other acts of worship naturally follows including your monetery givings. Clearly most folks here kicking against givings in church have elevated money as their god.

You are a false accuser, Bidam. I am not against any form of giving to God except that giving that is due to preachers putting their congregations in fear of a curse if they don't give, against that giving that is done because they are made to believe they are robbing God if they do not tithe their money, against that giving that is given because the giver is made to believe that God requires it.

If a person is giving because they love the Lord and want to see His Work done in Earth, I have no problem with that.

So, stop falsely accusing. It doesn't help your argument at all.

Bidam: you mean you have stopped preaching salvation message abi My bro stop deceiving yourself here what yu stated is not a ministry but your lust and carnality

My lust and carnality?

What am I lusting after, Bidam? Tell me, if you know?

The fact is, I lust for nothing.

Carnality? Since when is agreeing with Scripture and teaching sound doctrine carnality?

smh

And one day, the people of God will all be free from the modern-day pharisees that teach for doctrine the commandment of man. Many already are freed from teachers of the monetary tithe and cheerfully give as prescribed in 2 Corinthians 9:6-7

OLAADEGBU: But I have not see you contribute to any thread other than on tithes and offerings thread on this forum, no?

That is because God has given me a ministry to expose the false teachers of the monetary tithe requirement doctirne... such as you.

Bidam: I love this article, clear, precise and absolutely the mind of the Father.

Very apostolic. The sole purpose of Christians is to reveal the nature and character of Jesus, money is down the ladder and should be used as a tool to further advance the gospel.Satan knows this and is using this weapon to divide the church.

When peoples focus is on money rather than on the gospel...divisions,strife and dissensions abound.God help us.

The thing is, us who teach that God does not require tithe of money are not focused on money... we are focused on TRUTH.


Since the preacher passes the plate or bucket every Sunday, telling people God requires tithes of money, it is obvious the preacher is focused more on money than we are.

Proverbs 22:16 He that oppresseth the poor to increase his riches, and he that giveth to the rich, shall surely come to want.

Weah96: The Christian God is like a loan shark, except loan sharks only break your legs and tell you to have their money when they return. This thing called God will burn you FOREVER. For your own money.

Sorry, but that is not the Christian God you are describing.

The Christian God is not after anyone's money. The Christian God will not burn people for ever if they don't tithe their money.

There will be people who will burn for ever, but it will because they rejected the Christian God, not because they didn't tithe.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

donhils: listen, quoting so many bible verses is not what will convince us that you actually know what you are saying. when you read all these places, do you actually read in context? or you just pick one verse and read? do yourself a favour when they (pastors) quote these verses for you, try reading some verses above and below it so you'll understand very well. Running a church needs money so pastors look for a way to take it From members. suddenly everybody starts quoting old testament.

I do read in context. That is why I know that God never commanded the Church to tithe money.

If I am to be labeled a "criminal" because I refuse to tithe my money, I will gladly wear that badge.

After all, I am in good company.

Jesus Christ did not tithe His money.
The Apostles did not tithe their money.
The entire nation of ancient Israel did not tithe their money.

It's good to know that there are so many "criminals" such as myself who know that God never requried tithes of money from anyone.

Betboss: The Lord is my Shepherd. I shall not want.
The Lord God Almighty is eternal and needs not your money.
you succeed by His grace. the federal govt. of Nigeria and govt. Africa as a whole is not doing enough to take care of her citizens. so people turn to being over religious a worship religion..
Jesus Christ is love!
Jesus is Christianity!
Jesus Christ is God!
follow Him with all your heart, worship Him,
if Jesus Christ payed tithe then you must do same

That settles it then. I won't pay tithe.

Do your homework. Jesus did not tithe. He could not have tithed if He wanted to.

Why not?, you may ask? Because He was neither a farmer, nor a herder. The Bible tells us He was a Carpenter. Carpenters were exempt from having to pay tithes.

You say the Lord is your Shepherd, but you display the fact that you do not hear His voice.

I encourage you to read your Bible more.

Amos 3:3 asks the question, "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?".

An interesting question indeed. A question today could be asked why so many who claim to be walking with God disagree with His Word? Are they truly walking with God?

God said in Leviticus 27:30-33 that His holy tithe is agricultural. Are you in agreement with God? Are you walking with Him?

God said in Numbers 18:21,24,26,28 that He gave His tithe to the Levitic tribe of the children of Israel. Are you in agreement with God? Are you walking with Him?

God said in Deuteronomy 14:22-27 that a second tithe was to be taken to a Jewish Feast and eaten by the tither before the LORD God. Are you in agreement with God? Are you walking with Him?

God said in Deuteronomy 14:28-29 that a third tithe was to be given every three years to feed the widows, the orphans, the Levites and foreigners in Israel. Are you in agreement with God? Are you walking with Him?

God said in Nehemiah 10:37-38 that the firstfruits were to be taken to the Temple storehouse in Jerusalem, and the tithes were to be taken to the Levites. Are you in agreement with God? Are you walking with Him?

God said in Psalm 147:19-20 that His statutes and judgments were given to Israel and Israel alone. Are you in agreement with God? Are you walking with Him?

God's Word tells us in Acts 15:10 that it is tempting God to tell Gentile Believers that they are to keep the Mosaic Law. Are you in agreement with God? Are you walking with Him?

In the last chapter that tithing is mentioned in God's Holy Word, we are told that the commanded tithe is the same agricultural tithe commanded in the Penteteuch more than 1500 years earlier. Are you in agreement with God? Are you walking with Him?

Are you in agreement and walking with God? or have you rejected His decree and chosen your own path?

Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

okotv: ...Malachi 3:10....and if you dont believe its up to you afterall everyone would be judged personally and not on your believe

Malachi 3:10 was not a command for Christians to tithe. It was to the Israelites.

Malachi 1:1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel [/b]by Malachi.

[b]Malachi 1:6 A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?

Malachi 2:1 And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you.

Malachi 3:6 [/b]For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore [b]ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

The command for Israel to tithe was never given to the Gentile Churches. How can I say this? Because the Bible assures me that it is truth.

Psalms 147:19-20 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel. He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD.

God did not give His statutes to any other nation than Israel. They were for Israel, and Israel alone.

And in AD 35, the Gentiles were still not commanded to keep the Law of Moses.

Acts 15:23-29 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia: Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Now, if one does some diligent searching, one may find the command to tithe here:

Shebrews 7:5 And verily they that are of the Church, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the flock according to the law enacted by the Roman Catholic Church in AD 777.

Of course, Shebrews is not a canonical book, so we can dismiss that.