₦airaland Forum

budaatum:
And since they have "asked in faith" , according to you, they should be healed by the "supernatural healing power from the suffering".

According to the bible, the prayer of faith shall heal the sick and declaration of faith can move mountain.
JAMES 5:15 King James Bible
"And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him."

MATTHEW 7:7 King James Bible
⁷ "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. ⁸ For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened."

JOHN 14:13 King James Bible
"And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son."

... and the killer

MARK 11:24 King James Bible
"Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them."

1. Have they asked in faith?

Yes. If you think they've not, tell me how you know that? I ask you Buda, even if they have faith, can a prayer of faith heal the sick?

2. Which faith meter did you measure their faith with?

The bible never said have faith to a certain quantity. The bible said people should just have faith. According to the bible, a "drop" of faith is sufficient to move mountains.
MATTHEW 17:20 King James Bible
"And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; AND NOTHING SHALL BE IMPOSSIBLE UNTO YOU.

3. Are none ever healed?

None. If you disagree, show me a case of anyone that has healed by faith.

P.s. I love my doctor.

You have to, it's for your own good. I don't see why this information is relevant to the discussion.

Thomey:
The Senate of my school released results of graduating students yesterday. Unfortunately my name wasn't there.
I'm so sad and angry at myself. Firstly, how do I tell my parents ??. My Dad will likely disown me, my mom has great expectations for me will be greatly disappointed and she is also hypertensive. My siblings who sponsored part of my education are going to have nothing to do with me. I'm currently with my sister and how to break the news to her is beyond me.
A lot of questions and possibilities have been going through my head but I am just clueless right now

Please your advice is urgently needed before my sister gets back from work.

Mods please help me push to front page

What course are you studying? If your parents turn their backs on you because of an academic challenge, start questioning the love they have for you. Do they love you or are you just their object of meeting their expectations and/or building their prestige?

paxonel:
it wasnt the place of God to use his supernatural power to heal in the first place.

Wow. God, being god, can determine his responsibilities and I don't see any reason why he would withhold his supernatural healing power from the suffering christians who have asked in faith. Besides, the bible says that the prayer of faith shall heal the sick.

After God created man from the beginning, these were his specific instruction to man

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them(man), and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth(heal the earth)...

Dishonest and lying Paxonel. You are so dishonest that I created a thread about you using my previous moniker. To replenish the earth doesn't mean to heal the earth, it simply means that they should multiply. You lied on purpose, shameless liar.
Genesis 1:28 New International Version (NIV)
²⁸ "God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

Genesis 1:28 King James Version (KJV)
²⁸ "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

According to that verse, man will be fruitful and multiply and as a result of that, they shall fill up the earth with their kind. That's what "replenish" meant there. Shameless liar. Dishonest Paxonel. That verse never said it's man's responsibility to HEAL himself. To say it's the responsibility of man is to make the an excuse similar to the one I dismantled in my OP.

So healing was never the responsibilty of God from the beginning, rather it was man's responsibility. So, medical science and new scientific discoveries of man are God's outermost desire and hope over his supernatural powers to effectively heal this world

Your deduction is baseless as I have shown. God can determine his responsibility and as god, he answers to no one. So what's stopping him from making his supernatural power available for healing? Why choose medicine instead of his supernatural power? Why make it the responsibility of man "that's doomed to fail" when he could perfectly take on the responsibility? You are not making sense.
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

But we understood that man failed along the line, therefore God decided temporarily to intervene occationally(not always)pending on when man will get it right, thats why we hear of miracles.

As a god who could see the future, why make it the responsibility of man "that's doomed to fail" when he could perfectly take on the responsibility? You are not making sense. So miracles occur when man gets it right? Okay, tell me how man can get it right.

Its like someone manufacture a fan and the fan did not rotate after plugging it to the fuse, so he finds himself using his hand to propel the fan blade and gives it momentum to rotate pending on when the fan picks electricity.

Fans are inanimate and can't be guilty of disobedience and other sins. If you make a fan and it's not working, you are not a good designer and engineer. If you have to rotate the fan blades with your hands instead of fixing it like an electrician, you are not wise.

Humans are like the fan while God is the manufacturer.

Irrational analogy as I have shown.

Humans were ignorant and faulty in the past, but today, they are getting knowledge and understanding.

According to you, god made it the responsibility of man who were ignorant and faulty in the past. Why did he do that if he is sensible? How can a moral and wise god leave people who are ignorant and faulty to combat terrible diseases? Our ignorance of the cure of malaria in the past led to the death of hundreds of millions of people in the past. TODAY, our ignorance of the cure of certain cancers has seen millions dying from cancer every decade. Tell me how wise your god is and how rational your arguments are.

Today, man is getting almost everything right, there are new medical discoveries and break throughs today, such that God do not really need expenditure of his supernatural powers to intervene any longer. That is, he only comes in when it is necessary, so there are less miracles today.

But in the past when man didn't get almost everything right, did he intervene? No. Even now, millions of people are still dying and suffering from various terminal diseases and you tell me god doesn't need to intervene any longer. You are a joker.

Cc. IAmSabrina, GreatResearcher, 1Sharon, Funaki, TVSA, CAPSLOCKED, LordReed

SageMK:
Guy, you fúcked up big time.

Don't tell your dad. He'll literally kill you.

And your GF will leave you for a guy with two kidneys.

The guy is not me, I made the scenario up. I can't be that stupid. I dey madt?

You recently discoverd that all these while, unknown to you, your son deferred his admission by a year to use his school fees to help his girlfriend because he loves her. Not only that, he donated a kidney of his to save the life of his girlfriend because he loves her. What will you do if you discover that you son did all these and never told you? Your son is currently in 300lvl.

Lol.

1Sharon:
Ur face get as e be

The effect of too many shapes.

What the hell?

I eat in the parlour .

alexistaiwo:
Don't mistake being "Broke" for "Depression".
If you are broke,
you must be depressed.
It is in the constitution.

Exactly! There is circumstantial depression and real depression. When one is broke and all his/her mates are making it like kilode, depression must enter. It only takes money to take away that kain depression. It's purely circumstantial.

Zhegx:
Didn't bother reading. At the end of the day no one cares. Tell your sad stories to the marines. Life has always been about adaptation. We need to always tell ourselves the truth "life is what it is". You are an indimi, travel to Madrid, visit an orphanage, go to the clinic and see people praying to die, read a novel, drink fura da nunu, buy bole and groundnut, eat smoked fish with garri, dash 200 naira to bobrisky or whatever his/her name is.....point is 'life is short"..... and everyone has his struggles.

quite deep.

Nudity is overrated.

Q

MuttleyLaff:
It is obvious the truth is a bitter pill to swallow for you. God has no need for anyone to make excuses for Him. You are prideful and with a big mouth for size for that matter. What you achieved, what have you created and/or done in life, for you to have the audacity to denigrate God, huh? Ordinary finger nail, you can't create, the plank in your eye is still, yet you have the cheek to want to be making snide remarks about God. You that, in five minutes times, God can decide from you His breath back and just like you suddenly become history. Just thank God for His tolerance nature, others if they were God, won't be that tolerant with you and Martinez39

Lol. This height of it all. Mr. Man, IAmSabrina and I are not saying god needs to answer to us or that he owes us any explanation. We are simply asking questions that bring to light the irrationality of the excuse "god doesn't heal anyone, doctors and nurses are god's only provision for healing"? in addition to why god doesn't make his raw power available for healing. Do you have any reasonable answer or not?

Unlike you, we ask questions instead of overlooking the irrationalities and inconsistencies of god with the nonsensical excuse "... God's prerogative to do thinks the way and manner He decides to. He doesn't answer to either of youse. He doesn't own either of youse an explanation for how He lets things happen or not happen on earth." To do such is to surrender to stuρidity.

MuttleyLaff:
It's about time both you guys begin to learn that it is God's prerogative to do thinks the way and manner He decides to. He doesn't answer to either of youse. He doesn't own either of youse an explanation for how He lets things happen or not happen on earth. It is why God is God and you and Martinez39 are the prideful, mouthy earthling quick to give the lips

Wow. God can do things the way and manner he decides to, therefore any inadequacy and irrationality of god should be swept under the carpet. How logical. We never said god needs to answer to us or that he owes us any explanation. However, we will continue to question and bring to light the inconsistencies and inadequacies of the god idea and how incompatible it is with the observation of human life. The fact that people would accept the god idea without questioning its inconsistency and irrationality and then make excuses for them shows stuρidity is fully at work in many people.

You call me proud and mouthy? What for? For questioning the reasonableness of the excuse "god doesn't heal anyone, doctors and nurses are god's only provision for healing"?

MuttleyLaff:
You might have a case and be permitted to say all that, only and if only God isn't in control, and still ever on top of things and everyone. Rules have being set in place and these rules have to be abide by. This is the way the cookie crumbles, especially if man wanted to do things his way and the highway. It doesn't affect God's omnibenevolence nor Omnipotence in any shape or form

God made those rules and no one can question him if he decides to break these rules to intervene for a benevolent cause. Who sent him to make these rules? Who compels him to keep them? Even he breaks the rules for any reason, good or bad, no one can question him since he is god.

Therefore, I ask, what's preventing him for pointing out the cures to lethal illnesses or making available his raw power? You will need better excuses.

Cc. IAmSabrina

IAmSabrina:
.....
@bolded no one is teaching God anything. I just find it odd that even humans can sometimes be more moral than an omnibenevolent deity.

@italics I dont think you fully appreciate the contradiction on display here . The christian God is supposedly omnibenevolent I.E possessing unlimited goodness. If God can permit suffering and hardship and sickness in the world he created, then we have eliminate omnibenevolence from his resume,.... possibly even omnipotence too. Saying God will just sit back, kick up his feet in the air and watch man fail again and again (with casualties mind you) is a glaring contradiction

That post you replied to demonstrates pure stupidity. This is what happens when their beans is not our beans. These christards will always blame man's failures on man but credit man's successes to god. Very foolish folks.

shadeyinka:
...clap clap clap!

... rεtard rεtard rεtard!

TVSA:
sometimes I feel angry when I read some people's thoughts. So god is waiting for man to discover cure for cancer while children are dying daily in children cancer ward. God likes playing hide and seek. Imagine 2 years old babies suffering from cancer while god his playing games with the researchers

Are you minding them? They are christians because they lack the critical reasoning ability and honesty to break free from a much loved indoctrination.

12! ÷ 11! = (12 × 11 × 10 × ... × 3 × 2 × 1) ÷ (11 × 10 × 9 × ... × 3 × 2 × 1) = 12

-e^iπ = 1 (Euler's identity)

The definite integral of f(x) = x on the interval [0, 2] with respect to x is 2.

Therefore the time is 12: 07.5

MuttleyLaff:
The ranting and raving of someone banging his head against a brickwall. You keep on forgetting that the earth was given off to man and so it is man's responsibilty to look after the earth, take care of the earth, find correct solutions to problem and/or ills plaguing earth. This blaming culture, looking at someone to point the finger at except for man, has to stop. We wouldnt be in this situation, if in the first place, man didnt foxtrot uniform charlie kilo up.

Make up your mind, I thought you earlier said a good day adios to me

Still more nonsense. More nonsense. Anyway, let me keep to my word and call it a day with you.

I am in need of more excuses. MuttleyLaff, is that all you've got? jesusjnr/jesusjnr2, Anas09, Paxonel, Originalkalokalo, shadeyinka etc. won't you come and defend your god?

MuttleyLaff:
All these ranting and raving upandan the place are uncalled for nwanne. Nwanne every healing has been given, God is waiting on man to unravel and find each and every one of them. Nobody scoops petrol off the ground surface, nobody picks up gold from the ground surface, nobody scoops up pearls from the ocean surfaces, nobody picks up coal and diamonds from the ground surface. Everything comes with an effort, perseverance and commitment. This much you surely do know Martinez39

More and more nonsense. While man is working tirelessly to find the cure for cancer and AIDS, people all over the world are dying because god wants them to unravel the cures he hid in nature. He watches them die when he could have simply pointed out the cure or provided his healing power. How logical. Good day.

MuttleyLaff:
I wish Martinez39 is just as objective as you've just behaved, giving a truthful, sincere and honest observation. I can bet the first furniture until they got the knack of it, came about from a process of trial and error. They over time learnt which wood works for it and which didnt. Chairs, beds, wooden scaffolds etcetera didnt just abracadabra pop out in front of them

Lol. You've made no sense. Ancient medicine is no match for modern medicine. From my OP, I showed that it was illogical to choose medical science as the sole provision for healing when god had the option of providing his raw power as promised in the bible. How then can it be logical to make ancient medicine or a combination of ancient and modern medicine the provision of health when he has the option of providing his raw power as in biblical times? Ancient and modern medicine, taken together, are still not perfect and have the same limitations listed in my op.

Trial and error with wood doesn't kill anyone. Trial and error with suspected medicinal plants led to the death of many who were ingesting plants to know which is appropriate for certain diseases. Sometimes, after all testing they still didn't get the cure to some the diseases they wanted to cure and while they waited to get a cure for some diseases, their loved ones were dying in the thousands. Would this had been the case if god had provided his raw power? Would it not have been better? Oga you are making no sense and indirectly showing that either your god is too dull to make rational decisions or he is psychopathic.

MuttleyLaff:
Your snapshot narrative is skewed and distorted in a way that only can be regarded as inaccurate, unfair and misleading.

Uyi168 do you know the potential of an acorn oaknut seed, erh?
In that acorn oaknut seed, are furnitures for a home, furnitures, like beds to sleep in, chairs or settees to sit and relax in, dinning tables to eat on, from it, is the scaffolding planks for building a home, in that seed, is a tree, that birds will build nests in, is wood to make coffins with, you get the drift as the list goes on

Everything needed on earth is in a seed. God has not withheld, in fact God made all healing available, it is not God to blame, if man has not step up to the plate on time to unearth and discover things for healing, just as bacteriologist Alan Fleming, a believer, eventally did or Louis Pasteur, another believer, who sometimes is famously called the father of microbiology. He was the first to prove that germs make us sick.

There is nothing you will not do to defend your god. How do you know everything needed to heal man is in a seed? Where is your evidence for this or did just assume? Let's assume that the cure for HIV and AIDS are in a seed, why hasn't god informed people on what that seed is? Isn't that better than watching people suffer and die because they've not been able to identify the plant?

If you knew what the seed was, won't you inform others? If yes then your moral compass is greater than that of your god? Also, don't accuse people of not "stepping up" because scientists have spent hours and billions of dollars researching the cure to various incurable. Is it logical for god to withhold such life saving information and watch people suffer and die because man hasn't "stepped up"? Does it make sense for him provide such obscure means of healing when he could have simply pointed out the healing seeds? Even with our trial and error method of testing suspected medicinal seeds, people lost their lives by ingesting the wrong plants.

You have made no sense instead you have indirectly shown your god to be either dull to make rational decisions or psychopathic.

MuttleyLaff:
Before medical science how were great great great grandfather and grandma Martinez39 healed?

Before medical science, my ancestors and their children died and suffered from tuberculosis, polio, sickle cell disease, malaria etc. If they had any divine provision for healing then, it surely didn't help with malaria and sickle cell diseases. So what is your point? That there is something in addition to medical science? Are both of them a perfect combo and are they logically better that the alleged raw power of god? What exactly is your point?

MuttleyLaff:
Yes, medical science is one of the avenues and/or mechanisms for healing, it isnt an only provision.

What are the other options?

The ATM machine has never made a mistake.

advocate666:
I think you misunderstand Yahweh and are looking at him through the prism of the current crop of retards calling themselves christians.

Yahweh doesn't cure. He inflicts.

Yahweh created diseases, illnesses, pestillence and all types of turturing as punishment for either the isrealites that refused to obey him or those that he deemed enemies of his people. You can see numerous examples of this in the scripture.

Now what these christians do it they take the lies of Yahweh literally. Yahweh said he heals but he never healed anybody that naturally contracted any disease. He has no such powers. His powers of healing was restricted by the council of Elohim to heal only those afflictions that he himself caused.

That was why he was able to heal Job whose diseases he caused.

I was looking at it from the christian perspective. If they claim god is all powerful, perfect and all loving and he heals, would it make sense for them to say that medical science is Yahweh's only provision for healing?

Despite the bible talking about Yahweh being capable of healing and his promises to answer prayers of faith, many christians still can't bring themselves to put these in practice when shit hits the fan in life. Many, within them, know that the promises of Yahweh to heal the sick, who ask with faith, are laughable but since they want to keep on believing, they resolve the cognitive dissonance with illogical excuses such as "god is not a magician," "doctors and nurses are god provisions for healing" etc. in other to obviate their responsibility of embracing the miraculous as christians.

One of these illogical excuses that I want to address is "doctors and nurses are god provisions for healing." When christians use this line, what they mean is "Yahweh doesn't heal anyone directly instead the only way he heals is through doctors and nurses." They cleverly do this because, within them, they know that the miraculous healing is βullshit but they want to keep on believing. They try to absolve themselves of the responsibility to believe and practice faith healing instead of going to hospital. Does this excuse really make sense? No it doesn't. To use such excuse means you indirectly admit that Yahweh, being all powerful, can't properly implement appropriate solutions to problems or is plain wicked.

If Yahweh can provide healing for those who ask in faith, why leave them in the hands of doctors and nurses? Doctors and nurses are not perfect and can make mistakes that can be fatal at times. Medicine doesn't have solutions to certain ailments but Yahweh supposedly does, then why make medicine his only provision for healing when he can use his raw power? If medical science, not his raw power, is the only provision for healing then such provision is not sufficient for cancer patients, people with Lesch-Nyhan Syndrome, AIDS patients, the with ebola hemorrhagic fever etc. People with these end up dying. So why make medicine the only possible way when Yahweh could have used his raw power? With his allegedly raw power, these difficulties in medicine would be avoided and no one would die.

Does it make sense for Yahweh to ignore his perfect efficient power and opt for the imperfect and evolving medical science? Does this not make him an unintelligent god incapable of making sound choices? If he is perfectly sane and intelligent, does this not make him psychopathic? Why ignore your raw power that has a cure to all diseases for medical science that is limited in proffering solutions to many deadly illnesses? In many cases of manageable illnesses, the patients go through daily discomfort and spend money when this would not have been the case if Yahweh had made his raw power the provision for healing instead of the imperfect medical science. What about cases of mentally ill people who are confined to the psychiatric wards? Which would have helped them better, medical science or Yahweh's raw power(assume it exists as the bible claims)? Is this a foolish god or a psychopath? If he is sane and perfect in intellect, then he is wicked to watch people suffer and die when he could have used his raw power.

Before anti-malarial drugs were discovered, millions of children and adults died from malaria and there was nothing medical science, the provision of God for healing, could do but had god made his raw power the provision, such would not have happened. I ask you, do you think it is wise for Yahweh, being all powerful, to make the imperfect medical science his provision of healing when he could have used his raw power? So much for this divine provision of healing that many surgeries are predicted to have slim chances of success but this would not have been the case if Yahweh had used his raw power. He did it in biblical times, why should now be different? Does this make sense to you?

Given all I have stated, we can conclude that for Yahweh to make the imperfect medical science his only provision for healing instead of his raw power, then either he is too dull to proffer apt solutions to problems or he is simply a psychopath. Perhaps, we depend on medical science because it all we've got and there is no god existing.




HardMirror, Tozara, jesusjnr/Jesusjnr2, johnydon22, IAmSabrina, GreatResearcher, shadeyinka, budaatum, OLAADEGBU, CAPSLOCKED, OtemAtum, Advocate666, HopefulLandlord, Hahn, LordReed, JujuSugar, Seun etc.