₦airaland Forum

Steep:
free will can be overided for example a criminal can be jailed against his freewill, babies are immunized against their freewill, so.

Did you read that text properly? Do you not see that the women are instigators of the problem, they seduced Israel through sex inoder to make them weak so Israel could be anhillated . They have a evil custom of using sex as a weapon.
The women and little ones who had knew no sex should be saved alive.

But according to atheism morality is subjective So genocide is neither wrong or right.
By the way answer my question

But your god does not need any reason to do as he pleases do souls, to the extent of killing innocent babies.

Why are they keeping the virgins for themselves then, to be seduced the more?

According to theists, if you seduce someone with sex, the next thing is to kill them, thats universally right abi

Answer my question first too.

Is it right to do jungle justice to a murderer?

Aizenosa:
Oga the Catholic church has never supported LGBTQ, it's only of recent that because of love for neighbor and repentance that they have tried to allow them to even come to church, and while at church they are forbidden from anything else apart from attending church and repentance.

The 1st set of persons to even protest against it in America are the Catholics. Cuz in the bible 2 things stand out:
1. God made man and then woman. He looked at everything and saw it was perfect.
Not man in woman's body and woman in man's body which is a flaw.
2. Marriage is between man and woman.
The church seriously even frowns at devorce talkless of same sex marriage.

Don't get it twisted.

The Catholic has been supporting homosexuality since.

Before now Catholic don’t love their neighbors?, it is a recent development?

Send me the link where you read
“The 1st set of persons to even protest against it in America are the Catholics”

FxMasterz:
Yes, it depends on the gravity of the child's offence and the type of help he needs. A loving father is more concerned about the aftermath of his help. Why do you think father's spank their children? Out of hatred? He wants him to change. If you are very much passionate about him turning a new leaf, you must make decisions only a father can make. It all depends on your priority as a father. Whether to give him temporary respite I his sorrowful state and allow him to back to his ways. (That's not love) or to give all round help that assists his current situation as well as his entire life.

My God is not the doer of all things in the universe. Humans do both good and bad things. Satan does only evil things. Demons do evil things. They're all doers. God created humans, Satan and demons who do the good and bad things. God is the Creator of all things.

If my son is in trouble, and I’m a loving father i will help my son first before giving him conditions.
Spanking your child won’t make him change.


Your god didn’t create everything, he didn’t create evil, the devil must have created it, so he doesn’t have dominion over everything and is not the most powerful.

Isiah 45:7– I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Steep:
Where did yahweh command rape?
Since all souks belong to God he has a right to the any soul he pleases.
What is genocide?

So a soul saying it has freewill is only deceiving him self, your deity has the right to do the soul as he pleases.

Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle. "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to [Yahweh] in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck [Yahweh]'s people. Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

— Numbers 31:13–18

Steep:
jungle justice is wrong because you might kill and innocent person.

Killing babies is wrong because you didn't create them, remember in my world view God determines what is right and wrong, UT is not me or you or anybody just God
And God has said Noone has right to murder anyone including babies but God has tight to kill anyone including babies.
And because God is love his actions are loving and just.

No, we are talking about a Murderer not “innocent person”
Judges send innocent people to jail and death sentences everytime.

Is it right to do jungle justice to MURDERER?

Exactly, according to steep, killing babies is not wrong ITSELF, it is only wrong because you didn’t create them.

Since your god determines what is right and wrong, how can we call that deity a good god?
Since his standard for good and bad is always changing. He can kill babies and thats right abi

Steep:
conscience alone dmis not sufficient hence God gave the commandments. However without God conscience would be meaningless.
God cannot command rape because he is a good God.

What conscience?
You said killing babies is not wrong because you didn’t create them, so is the conscience about the killing of babies or because you did not create them.

Yahweh commanded rape and genocide, according to you if yahweh says rape is good it is good.

Steep:
Answer my question first?

Answer my question first too.

Is it right to do jungle justice to a murderer?

According to Steep, killing babies itself is not wrong, it’s wrong because you didn’t create them.

Steep:
exactly, and the fact he gave us conscience to also guide us.

What do you mean by jungle justice?

Conscience that lacks what good and evil means, if your god said rape was good your conscience would have said it is good.
You don’t what good and evil is, you are only following orders of your deity, how is that objective?

Exactly what jungle justice mean.
Is it right to do jungle justice to a murderer?

Steep:
God gave animals to us to eat, you proving again that there is only objective morality and a law giver.
Else can you from an atheists world view justify why animals should be killed and eaten?
I am waiting, and this is for you lord Reed too

When did he give animals for you to eat?

Is it universally right to eat animals?

FxMasterz:
First, you've made assertions regarding my God, the Creator of the universe. Consider it reasonable to offer my answers from His book to show you what He has said of Himself and the clarifications He has given about the concerns you've raised. I've avoided quoting the scriptures since we started this discussion.

Now, if you are a father who has a wayward son that disrespected you. Engaged in vices. Spoilt your reputation. He then suddenly falls into trouble. Now, he remembers he has a father. As a wise father, won't you give him conditions that would make him rethink his ways? Or do you hate him so much that you'll allow him to continue to destroy himself? But a good child already met all the conditions. You'll help him with speed.

God's conditions are out of love to turn the wicked from his evil ways.

God didn't create man with evil desires. Evil desires is the result of spiritual death (Eternal separation from God). Right from the day man lost sight of God, he lost his Godly nature and took upon a satanic nature which is full of evil desires.

Ecclesiastes 7:29
"Behold, I have found only this [as a reason]: God made man upright and uncorrupted, but they [both men and women] have sought out many devices [for evil].”

God created Satan as an upright angel in heaven. He was called Lucifer. He was the most glorious of God's creation. As a result of the extras that God gave him as the closest archangel to the throne, Lucifer grew proud. He wanted to be like God. God sent him down to earth for his rebellion. Man was thereafter created as a punisher for fallen Lucifer. God put Lucifer under the authority of the man whom He made from dust as a mark of eternal humiliation.

God knew man would become evil and will honour Satan. God knew he'll fall into troubles. So, while laying the foundations of the earth from the very beginning, He made a solution ready:

Revelation 13:8
"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him (Satan), whose names are not written in the Book of Life of the Lamb, slain from the foundation of the world."

Yes, more bad things happen in the world because Satan hates man so much. God created man as Sarah's nemesis. So, the hatred is not unexpected. Man's error is in ceding the earth to Satan. Satan today is the god of this world. He distributes all the evils and bad things you see around. Meanwhile, things were not so in the begining. Man was the original owner and god of the earth:

Psalm 115:16
The heavens are the LORD’s heavens, but the earth he has given to the children of man.

Man is the architect of his own woes. Out of love, God provided a solution - the lamb Jesus. Someone without Christ would suffer defeat at the hands of Satan. Someone who has Christ goes from victory to victory.

The Amorites were a people given to idol worship. God wasn't even so much angered by that, since He knew that man had lost connection with Him. What angered God was bloodshed. Murders were being committed with impunity. There was too much blood in the land. The people heeded no warnings. They even roasted young kids alive as sacrifice to a God called Molech. There was sodomy and every kind of evil you might think of. So God decided to judge that nation by wiping them off and replacing them with another set of people. Before then, God had to wait over 500yrs for this people to repent. God is very patient.

While God was still waiting for the Amorites to repent, knowing fully well that they would never repent, He told Abraham in Genesis 15:16:

"In the fourth generation your descendants will return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”

The descendants of Abraham were only sent to execute judgement against those people. The proof that God actually used the Israelites for their judgement is that, this people were all Giants. The Israelites referred to them as Anakims. They were also very numerous. The Jews, though short I stature and comparatively few in number did the impossible by dispossessing the iniquitous Amorites. This isn't ordinary.

God is a God of judgement and justice. He forwarned the Israelites to avoid commiting the same sins that He used them to punish the Amorites for. The consequences would be grievous. When the Israelites disobeyed, He did exactly as He said. A God of justice.

If my son is in trouble, and I’m a loving father i will help my son first before giving him conditions.

Your god didn’t create evil, your god is not the Creator of all things.

Steep:
There needs to be one higher than the universal to create laws that is universal.
Murderer can be killed and it will be right.
Juggle justice is wrong because innocent people can become victims.

That means you don’t know what good and evil means, you are only following orders of the “higher”.

Is it right to do jungle justice to a murderer?

Steep:
It is universally wrong to kill babies because you didn't create them.

So killing babies itself is not wrong, it’s wrong because you didn’t create them.

Is killing animals also wrong?

Ever8090:
which Catholic support gay?..

When was catholic against it?
https://www.usccb.org/news/2023/pope-clarifies-remarks-about-homosexuality-and-sin

Steep:
So a judge that order a murderer to be killed i is wrong?
Or a father that took his children out of a toxic environment is bad?

Why is it right for a judge?
Can anyone order a murderer to be killed and it will be right?
Is it right to do jungle justice to a murderer?

The consequences for killing is killing? Is that universally right?

FxMasterz:
Conditions exist because men are evil. They have no regard for God. They're wicked to their fellow humans. They serve their selfish desires. They honour Satan. Conditions exist because justice must be done. God wants to meet you the way He created you. He doesn't want any adulterated humans.

Justice in this context means you get what you deserve. You'rll not be rewarded for good things you never did.

So if If there are conditions before your yahweh can help someone then why is a pastor needed for miracle?
Even if the pastor is given permissions he is powerless except the patient has done the 5 conditions.
This is a lie “Pastors can heal anywhere you meet them. A simple words as 'Please pray for me.' is all the power and authority a pastor needs to start praying for you.”


Who created men with their desires?
Who created satan?
Before creating man, omniscience god didn’t know man will be evil and they will honor satan?

But the reality is we have more bad things happening to us than good things.

When your god was ordering israelite to kill, will they be rewarded for it?

FxMasterz:
Good question.

Everyone is God's creation but not everyone belongs to God. God does not exert ownership on people. You can choose your own owner. But God owns the world, and He'll judge everything in it. You can't choose your own judge.

God has a principle: "Ask, and it shall be given unto you ". Because God would heal only those who merit healing. There are some very wicked fellows who do not deserve to see any goodness.

Hence, there are certain checks that guide healings. Someone who's suffering for his own wickedness cannot get healed without being first forgiven and mercy granted. In forgiveness, justice must still be served.

God is a God of fairness and equity. He must avenge the weak who has been wronged. Some sicknesses or problems are actually as a result of nemesis. Just as some sudden goodness are as a result of Providence.

Someone who has absolute disregard for God when all things were going well for him cannot suddenly call on God when trouble comes. God isn't anybody's puppet. A man may do evil for as long as God continues to wait for him to repent. One day, he would be visited, and at that time, no one can help him. Not even a doctor, if his case happens to be a sickness. So, not everyone can be healed. People die in hospitals every day. Not everyone a pastor prays for is healed. Justice must be done because God is a God of judgement.

A rebellious fellow must pay the price for his rebellion some day. That day, no one would be able to help him. There's just one day. It's called the The Day of Visitation. Prayers won't be answered except for a divine prerogative of mercy. Hence God cannot distribute miracles or healings just like that. Not everyone would be healed.

Sometimes, a pastor would pray for someone in calamity, and it would be clearly revealed that he's suffering punishments for some past wickedness. At such point in time, only mercy can speak for that person because justice must be served. God loves humans, and any evil done by a human to his fellow human receives a just retribution. God doesn't bend His rules because of anybody. He's down-to-earth. He's a just Judge.

So if God would heal a man, then he must:

1. Have a relationship with Him. He's not your standby generator.

2. Acknowledge Him as God

3. Live a life of genuine love for your fellow humans.

4. Trust Him that He'll do it for you because He loves you. God hates distrust.

5. Call upon Him, and He'll answer. It doesn't matter where you are or what you're facing.

If these 5 conditions are met, miracles come speedily. If any of the conditions is lacking, there may be a little glitch before a breakthrough occurs. And if the it's a divine judgement on the individual, miracles may never happen except by a divine prerogative of mercy.

Even your yahweh is under his own principle.

If there are conditions before your yahweh can help someone then why is a pastor needed for miracle?

FxMasterz:
I have told you different ways in which miracles can be performed by pastors even without being in the hospital. I told you how pastors can pray for specific persons by name from any location. Didn't I? Must I always be repeating previous discussions when discussing with you?
I don't know how many times I've done that today alone. And it has always being like that. You always want a discussion to become a roundabout whenever you feel cornered? Or, Do you want to tell me that you forget too soon? Or you just want to be disturbing me unnecessarily?

Thanks for your time anyway. Bye. I won't reply you again except it's on something I've not touched in the course of our discussion so far. I don't have time for such.

Why can’t yahweh just heal everyone in the hospital in the whole world, why does yahweh need specific names?

FxMasterz:
We're talking about permission now. We only want to know why pastors need permission isn't it? Just barge in there without permission. Distribute food, money, drugs or even perform healing. Okay?

Go and do as advised. I'm done with you.

The pastor can only perform the miracle in the hospital.
He can’t pray to his deity anywhere and he will heal the people.

How do you “perform healing”?
You are making it sound like it’s performing a physical surgery.

FxMasterz:
I don't know why pastors need permission.

You can experiment yourself. Take food to go distribute in a hospital to the sick. That's a good thing isn't it? You're being nice.

Barge into a hospital without permission and start distributing food in every ward. Come back and tell me how it went.

What exactly is the physical thing like food thay the pastor is taking to the sick?

How you are able to relate this to a pastor staying in his home and praying to yahweh to heal all the sick in the hospitals to taking food into an hospital shows the effects of religion lol
If i go to the hospital i will be stopped, who is going to stop your yahweh from healing the sick?

FxMasterz:
Pastors are humans. They're not Yahweh. A sick person anywhere can call on God in the hospital directly and be healed. That was how Kenneth Hagin got healed when he was left to die oh his hospital bed at age 16. God does not need permission to heal if you acknowledge and call upon him directly. Human beings who live in a regulated world needs that.

I can see that you fully understand all that I've said but you decided to unnecessary drag the discussion, and I've given you the best of my time. You're gradually tending towards mockery. Laughing that I said Yahweh needs permission when nothing in our discussion points towards this direction.

When pastors are given permissions who do they call on?
Now that they are not given permissions, why can’t they call on the same thing?
Why exactly do pastors need permissions?

FxMasterz:
To do so, you need the permission of the hospital. Yes, it's been done but not publicised. There are a few hospitals who grant such permissions. Meanwhile, you should understand that a hospital is a business place where doctors make money from the sick. Any other form of healing stands as a direct threat or competition to the medical healing business. Pastors respect that.

Yahweh needs permission from the hospital lol

FxMasterz:
I don't even understand what you're hitting at because it doesn't represent anything I have said.

You don’t understand what you are saying, religion has messed with you.

Why don’t you go to hospitals and ask patients if they want to be healed, and what if it is a coma patients, your god is powerless against those?

Yahweh worshipper lol

FxMasterz:
Jesus Christ!!

Please read my post again. I can't continue repeating myself. I even made an example of my home in relation to Tinubu. I also explained that a doctor can't operate in another hospital without given the authority to treat people there.

What's your profession? No matter what you do, you can't go to another place to do a job without being given permission or authority to work there. it's not a doctor/pastor thing now. Who doesn't know this? You want a pastor to enter a hospital and start healing without being invited. Does he own the hospital? Who gave him the permission to do so?

Pastors can heal anywhere you meet them. A simple words as 'Please pray for me.' is all the power and authority a pastor needs to start praying for you.

Your examples are flawed, can’t you see what religion is doing to you.

So if you pray to yahweh now, he can’t help those in the hospital because you don’t have permissions from the owner of the hospital, yahweh is powerless?

FxMasterz:
We're talking about a pastors place of influence where you can go meet him. I've explained how pastors could operate outside the church. All I've said is to explain to you what I meant by 'place of influence'.

Just as the doctor who does not own a hospital can operate where he's given authority to operate. A pastor would perform miracles where he's given authority to operate as well, whether he owns the place or not. Church or no church.

Pastors can only be met in the church just like native priests.

A doctor doesn’t need an hospital to operate, and he doesn’t need to be given an authority.
Before you can use yahweh to perform a miracle you need to be given authority from who please?

FxMasterz:
Are we talking about the job of a doctor to own or not to own? We're talking about a doctor in relation to a pastor. And for justice, we can only accurately juxtapose that pastor with a doctor who owns a hospital because pastors usually own churches which I called their places of influence.

Even if the doctor does not own a hospital, he still has authority and power according to the limits given to him by the owner of the hospital. Still he can't operate in another hospital where he has not been given any authority or power to operate. In both scenarios, whether he owns the place or not, people go to the hospitals to see doctors. They go to church to see pastors.

Only pastors who owns a church can perform miracles, got you.

If a pastor goes to another church he can’t perform miracles untill he gets authority from the owner of that Church, got you.

FxMasterz:
In my context, I'm talking about a doctor who owns a hospital because that's at par with a pastor who owns a church.

The job of a doctor is not to own an hospital.
Only pastors who owns a church can perform miracles, got you.

An owner of anything has influence on his property, thats common sense.
What has this got to do with the discussions?

FxMasterz:
That's still in tandem with all I have been saying. There's no contradiction between what you've said and what I said. I never said a doctor needs a hospital to operate. And I never said a pastor needs a church to operate.

Power and authority in my context is the ability to do what you want the way you want to do it without being directed by anybody. That's the advantage of her doctor's place of influence. That's why I clarified that in places other than his hospital, he can only advice or even take permissions before doing anything. In his hospital, he send a staff away especially if he owns the hospital. He has that authority and power. He can admit or reject a patient. He has the authority and power. He makes the rules. It's his place of influence. That's the same with a pastor in his church.

A doctor can't treat patient even in another person's hospital without the permission of the authorities in that hospital. He's a trespasser there. He could be arrested and jailed. In his own hospital, he can treat anyone. Outside his hospital or home, he needs permission.

Everyone has his place of influence. In my house. I'm the power and authority. Tinubu as president cannot command me on matters relating to my family. I'm the decision maker. This is my place of influence.

The doctor can’t do what he wants in the hospital, he needs to treat people that is all.

Are you confusing the owner of the hospital with a doctor?

Is it only in your house that you can command matters relating to your family?

FxMasterz:
A hospital is a doctor's place of influence because that's his jurisdiction. He exercises full authority and power in that hospital. In order places, he can only advice. In his hospital, he makes decisions. It is left for anyone to accept or reject his decision. That's his place of influence.

As there are universally active scientific laws for the operations of our world as well as the universe in which we dwell. The Spirit realm has its laws. A pastor cannot stand in his church and influence miracles in a hospital or mortuary except he is given specific names of persons or groups he must pray for. Yes, the miracle would be delivered to the target persons; but someone must provide those specific details.

A doctor doesn’t need a hospital.
A hospital is just a building.
I don’t think you know what “hospital” means.
He is still a doctor in other places if he needs to treat people, he does not exercise any authority or power in the hospital, he treats people that is all.

You are yet to say anything worthy

FxMasterz:
Similarly, a pastor would help you without bring told. He just needs to ask your permission.

A hospital is the doctor's place of influence. I never said the hospital influences the doctor.

A pastor walking into a hospital to perform miracles is a trespasser in that hospital. He could be arrested and jailed. Pastors usually go to hospitals to pray for individual sick people who invite them, or their church members with whom they have relationship. Most times, other sick people around would ask for prayers, the pastor would pray and leave.

If a pastor would go pray in a hospital, the hospital must invite the pastor. Otherwise, the pastor has no right to enter the hospital to do anything. He's a trespasser.

If you want to see miracles, invite a truly anointed pastor to your home. If a hospital wants to see miracles, they should invite a truly anointed pastor. If you have a hospital and desire to see miracles, invite a truly anointed pastor to your hospital. Otherwise, go meet him in church the sane way you'll go meet a doctor or an engineer in his place of influence.

What do you mean a doctor’s place of influence is the hospital?

Which pastor have been arrested for trespassing?

And why can’t pastors pray in their church and heal those in the hospital and mortuary?
Must they see who they are praying to?

FxMasterz:
A doctor can't function maximally without his equipments. Whether in the ship or in the room.

A pastor is not a pastor because of a church building. That's just his primary place of contact and influence. He can minister wherever he is invited. Sea, air or land. All he needs is an invitation. The same applies to a doctor.

A doctor equipment is not an hospital.
Yes, exactly if there are no equipments in the hospital, the doctor can’t perform maximally.
So How does a building named “hospital” influence a doctor?

Why do i need to go to a shrine before i can see the “miracles”?
Why are they not performing the miracles at hospitals and mortuaries, everyone is invited there.

If a doctor sees someone that needs help and it won’t cost money, they will help that person without been told.

FxMasterz:
Same as the pastors. They visit homes whenever they're invited. Rich or poor. But there primary place of contact is the church, just as it is the hospital for the doctor.

Same as nativepriests too.

Any building can be an hospital, we have hospitals on ships.
A doctor is a doctor without an hospital.

Why do i need to go to a shrine before i can see the “miracles”?
Why are they not performing the miracles at hospitals and mortuaries?

FxMasterz:
My brother, why must the sick go to hospitals so the doctors can heal them. If you want to know anything or clear your doubts medical healings, won't you go to the hospital? That's because a hospital is a doctor's place of influence.

A church is a pastors place of influence. If you want to Kno or clear your doubts about spiritual healing or miracles, go there.

Because the equipments needed are in the hospitals, ANYWHERE the tools are available they can do their job..
The doctor doesn’t need a building called hospital to do his job.
Rich people are treated at home.


What do you mean “ hospital is a doctor's place of influence. ”?