₦airaland Forum

nazzyon:
You won't be disappointed.


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Does anyone here use BackTrack?

@nazzyon;
I used BT3 sometime ago. I also use ubuntu 9.04 and justy recently took the plunge into win7. any probs?

:-x

step in the right direction

ok, i thot u had a problem with the trains

anyway, if u have an idea of kaduna state, its one of his main achievements; reviving the railway transport there, which seemed to be an impossible task.

so on the part of his supporters, what better way to campaign for him, than to go and put up his posters there. As for me, i dont hav a problem for 2 reasons;
1. The trains had no label saying; "POST NO BILL"
2. The trains actually look uglier without some form of "DRESSING"  

lastly, i dont think the man even has an idea of who put up the posters; thats just what supporters like doing in 9ja; u cant really control them. Believe me, there are worst places I have seen campaign posters been put-up which could actually be dangerous e.g. like highway signs, u'll just see someone covering up the signs or reflectors with posters etc  

@gekko,

are u against his efforts in reviving the kaduna state train system OR are you against his pictures on campaign posters?

I just heard on the news that as at this time; 2:45 pm today, no name has yet been forwarded to the senate house from the Presidency. i hope this is not just a rumour?

KING - spurs

:-x

ronaldo eclipses any player he plays with. for example, when he was in united, Rooney was in the shadows but now that he is gone, Rooney has appeared like a sunshine. The same goes for kaka, it seems that kaka doesnt even exist at times in madrid

frosbel:
Proponents of sharia banking rest their case on many verses of the Holy Koran that outlaw usury, not interest.

Verses that address the question of loans and debts include:

Al Baqarah (2:275): God hath permitted trade and forbidden usury;

Al Baqarah (2:276): Allah does not bless usury, and He causes charitable deeds to prosper, and Allah does not love any ungrateful sinner.

Every English-language translation of the Koran has translated the Arabic word riba as usury, not interest. Yet, Islamists have deliberately portrayed bank interest as usury and labelled the current banking system as un-Islamic. Instead, these Islamists have created exotic products with names that are foreign to much of the world's Muslim population.

@frosbel,

Word Origin & History of USURY;
c.1300, from M.L. usuria,  from L. usura  "usury, interest," from usus,  from stem of uti  (see use). Originally the practice of lending money at interest, later, at excessive rates of interest.
source: Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper

you say that the word is translated as 'usury' not 'interest', so doesnt the word usury encompass the usage of interest? check most dictionaries that have an etymology, they'll tell you that usury means interest, but in the modern sense, it refers to 'excessive interest'.
moreover, in addition to interest, one of the main principles of the islamic form of banking is that there must be profit and loss sharing. (check this principle in many hadiths), if there is interest, it means that once u enter into a business u only share the profit and not the loss, so whatever the outcome of the transaction, one party gains.

Mr. Saleem not only dismisses the founding premise of sharia and Islamic banking, he says, "Islamic banks do not practise what they preach: they all charge interest, but disguised in Islamic garb. Thus they engage in deceptive and dishonest banking practises."

if some or most islamic banks dont practice what they preach, doesnt mean that the underlying principle is wrong OR that we should abolish everything altogether, afterall the other so-called banks are not following the correct principles and guidelines which they have, and thats why most of the banks were in troube a few months back! So cutting corners are a feature of all bankers irrespective of their principles!!

@toba,

Let me Educate u. The topic says 'Islam preaches peace' Whereas it doesn't.

i deviated from the topic because i was responding to a post on the issue of the curse put on the jews by Muhammad (pbuh), in case u hav 4gotten, u were the one that posted the verses and i was replying to them. so did u 4get what the topic was, when u asked the question.

Mohammad had pray to allah to rain curses on his behalf. From the above verses u qouted did any1 prayed to God to invoke curses or God did that himself?

in case u have 4gotten, Muhammad (pbuh) is a messenger to deliver a message. The issue which you are trying to avoid but you have now agreed to is  that God has coursed the jews himself even centuries before Muhammad (pbuh). Now, did you hear God himself curse the jews or did you hear it through someone. In this case that someone is just a prophet like Muhammad (pbuh). and by the way, why are u not blaming isaiah for saying God has placed such a curse?

So in your own judgement if a messenger/envoy brings a message to you, you will blame him rather than the person who sent him?
and in your own logic, if yar'adua now (who no one can see) says that "I wont provide electricity to nigerians till the end of my tenure". and you here this in the news, you will go about trying to blame the newscasters and journalists abi? instead of trying to address the president?

what is a curse?according to the dictionary is: to wish or invoke evil, calamity, injury, or destruction upon.  a person or group OR to excommunicate OR to afflict with great evil.

incase, u didnt understand the meaning of a curse, it doesnt matter whether u say that u hav placed a curse or u are wishing God to curse someone, the action of punishment (on that scale) can only be approved by Gods will, Muhammad (pbuh) doesnt hav the power to unleas such destruction on anyone himself

the truth which we bioth agree upon is that the God in the bible has already placed a curse, so please try to deal with that, whether he placed it himself or someone says he placed it, or someone asks him to place the curse or anyother thing that is related to that course

~Lady~:
I just want a simple answer to this question o.

The Quran states that no one can change or alter the word of God, and that the Quran is the word of God.

The Quran also states that the Jews altered the word of God.

So my question is this?

Why was the word of God able to be altered by the Jews, when no one can alter the word of God?
Was Allah not powerful enough to stop the Jews from changing his word in the first place?
Or did he just automatically become powerful in the time of the Quran?

An honest direct answer to my question would siffice. Thanks in advance.

@~lady~,

one of the verses, that people refer to when saying that no one can change the word of God is Q6:34. the solution is in referring to the arabic word itself. The arabic word can be translated as WORD, but it can also take other meanings, like DECREE or LAW. In just the same way, the word COP can mean a PIG or POLICEMAN.

The verse is
Asad translation; 6:34 (Asad) And, indeed, [even] before thy time have apostles been given the lie, and they endured with patience all those charges of falsehood, and all the hurt done to them, till succour came unto them from Us: for there is no power that could alter [the outcome of] God's promises. And some of the histories of those apostles have already come within thy ken.
Yusuf Ali translation; 6:34 (Y. Ali) Rejected were the apostles before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those apostles.
picktall translation; 6:34 (Picktall) Messengers indeed have been denied before thee, and they were patient under the denial and the persecution till Our succour reached them. There is none to alter the decisions of Allah. Already there hath reached thee (somewhat) of the tidings of the messengers (We sent before).

I have deliberately quoted 3 translations of the verse from popular translators, so u could have your pick. However, since the muslims insist in reading the qur'an in its pure arabic form, the meaning is never in doubt. therefore, there has never been any confusion/disagreement within muslim scholars as to what the verses mean. The verse clearly means the PROMISE/DECREEof Allah cannot be changed.

As for the possibility of changing the word of Allah (in the sense of what Allah has revealed), yes, the jews did alter their revelations. and yes, Allah promised to protect the Qur'an from such alterations. Allahs promise was to protect the Qur'an , but not the books before it. And Allah is true to his promise of protecting the qur'an in its pure form. That is why the Qur'an stands out as a book that even without the manuscript today, millions have memorised it word for word in its original form, so it can still be reproduced.

Finally, the christians say that JESUS is the WORD of God; (In the beginning was the word), did they mean a set of alphabets? or a spoken or written word or what? this shows that word could take different meanings

Hope this answer helps and is simple enough

@duroe,

Duroe:
@Ogaga, Chaluka.
You have to answer this question: Have you got any other book that could claim the title 'the word of God'?
Which of the books on the earth is so divinely inspired as revealed in accurately fulfilled prophesies and detailed analysis of the program of the creator of heaven and earth regarding all creations?

i personally believe that the Qur'an is the word of God and you cannot pick out a historical inaccuracy or an unfulfilled prophecy. As for the program of the creator for his creations, his purpose is clear in the Qur'an, no ambiguities. Thank you

toba:
Sahih Al-Bukhari HadithHadith 4.660        Narrated byAisha and Ibn Abbas
On his death-bed Allah's Apostle put a sheet over his face and when he felt hot, he would remove it from his face. When in that state (of putting and removing the sheet) he said, "May Allah's Curse be on the Jews and the Christians

Sahih Al-Bukhari HadithHadith 4.666        Narrated by Ibn Abbas
I heard 'Umar saying, "May Allah Curse so-and-so! Doesn't he know that the Prophet said, 'May Allah curse the Jews for, though they were forbidden (to eat) fat, they liquefied it and sold it."

@toba, jesus

First let me complete your quotation of sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith 4.660; Narrated 'Aisha and Ibn 'Abbas: On his death-bed Allah's Apostle put a sheet over his-face and when he felt hot, he would remove it from his face. when in that state (of putting and removing the sheet) he said, "May Allah's Curse be on the Jews and the Christians for they build places of worship at the graves of their prophets." (By that) he intended to warn (the Muslim) from what they (i.e. Jews and Christians) had done. (Book #56, Hadith #660)

Nowit is clear from the above that the reasons why the Prophet cursed them is because, they build places of worship at the graves, and the jews ate fat even though it has been forbidden for them. Is it not true that they do what he is accusing them of? if its true then they are cursed! and Muhammad (pbuh) isnt the first to curse them. Even the Lord has cursed them, Muhammad (pbuh) is merely a messenger repeating the message.

what is a curse?according to the dictionary is: to wish or invoke evil, calamity, injury, or destruction upon. a person or group OR to excommunicate OR to afflict with great evil.

Now let us examine what your Lord says in the Bible about the people who carry out the actions in the hadith.

Leviticus 3:17It shall be a perpetual statute for your generations throughout all your dwellings, that ye eat neither fat nor blood.
Deut 27: 26 "Cursed is the man who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying them out." Then all the people shall say, "Amen!"

CURSING THE JEW THAT EATS FAT, above. then below, the bible CURSES the grave worshipper

Isaiah 65: 3 All day long they insult me to my face by worshiping idols in their sacred gardens. They burn incense on pagan altars. 4 At night they go out among the graves, worshiping the dead. They eat the flesh of pigs and make stews with other forbidden foods. 5 Yet they say to each other, ‘Don’t come too close or you will defile me! I am holier than you!’ These people are a stench in my nostrils, an acrid smell that never goes away. 6 “Look, my decree is written out[c] in front of me: I will not stand silent; I will repay them in full! Yes, I will repay them—7 both for their own sins and for those of their ancestors,” says the Lord.

Finally, why are u even panicking? afterall, the bible says:
Like a fluttering sparrow or a darting swallow, an undeserved curse does not come to rest. (Proverbs 26:2)

toba:
Sahih Al-Bukhari HadithHadith 4.791        Narrated byAbdullah bin Umar
I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "The Jews will fight with you, and you will be given victory over them so that a stone will say, 'O Muslim! There is a Jew behind me; kill him!' "


Sahih Al-Bukhari HadithHadith 4.662        Narrated byAbu Said
The Prophet said, "You will follow the wrong ways, of your predecessors so completely and literally that if they should go into the hole of a mastigure, you too will go there." We said, "O Allah's Apostle! Do you mean the Jews and the Christians?" He replied, "Whom else?" (Meaning, of course, the Jews and the Christians.)

As far as hadith 4.791 is concerned, it has nothing to show that the Prophet (Pbuh) cursed the jews and xtians (which was my question, for u to produce proof of cursing the jews & xtians). The only thing that this hadith shows is that the Prophet (pbuh) has predicted an event that will happen towards the end of time. It is now left for us to wait and see if it will happen or not, then we can start concluding. And it was not a command but a prediction/prophecy, the same logic we cannot say because Jesus (pbuh) or Muhammad (pbuh) or even nostradamous predicted that there would be natural disasters at the end of time, doesnt mean that they wished or willed the natural disasters.

The 2nd hadith i.e 4.662 is also a prediction/prophecy and u dont even need the Prophet to have told u that. I am sure if it was nostradamous that predicted that the muslims would completely be struggling to follow in the footsteps of the jews & xtians, everyone would have been hailing him for yet another miraculous prediction!!

translation from M. ASAD; 5:51 (Asad) O YOU who have attained to faith! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for your allies: they are but allies of one another [72] and whoever of you allies himself with them becomes, verily, one of them; behold, God does not guide such evildoers. [73] -

@jesus, well that verse is a statement of fact, which stands till 2row. the jews and xtians are always 'in-bed' together. we see it until now, the relationship btw israel and the other xtian nations. As at 1430 yrs ago when these verses were been revealed, it would have been easier to deny the fact, but not now.

@toba (cont'd from above);

and just incase u dont have access to the verses quoted in note 72 and 73, i have quoted them for you;

5:57 (Asad) O you who have attained to faith! Do not take for your friends such as mock at your, faith and make a jest of it-be they from among those who have been vouchsafed revelation before your time, or [from among] those who deny the truth [of revelation as such] -but remain conscious of God, if you are [truly] believers

60:7 (Asad) [But] it may well be that God will bring about [mutual] affection between you [O believers] and some of those whom you [now] face as enemies: for, God is all-powerful - and God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace. -
60:8 (Asad) As for such [of the unbelievers] as do not fight against you on account of [your] faith, and neither drive you forth from your homelands, God does not forbid you to show them kindness and to behave towards them with full equity: [9] for, verily, God loves those who act equitably. -
60:9 (Asad) God only forbids you to turn in friendship towards such as fight against you because of [your] faith, and drive you forth from your homelands, or aid [others] in driving you forth: and as for those [from among you] who turn towards them in friendship; it is they, they who are truly wrongdoers! -

I'll stop here because, i dont like lentghy posts lest the reader gets tired or lost, but i posted some of the references to the above just so u could have a better understanding of the topic


PLEASE respond with ur comment so i know if u are with me or not OR if learning is taking place or not. cheers

5: 51        O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other.  And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them.  Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

@toba,

first, i want u to understand something about translating the Qur'an, because in a previous thread u accused me of lying to u because i posted a different translation. The Qur'an is originally in arabic and as such, like everyother language, if u attempt to translate a word or phrase, u can hardly get the exact meaning. For example, the first verse to be revealed in the Qur'an is Q96:1 "Read, in the name of your lord who createth". But then we have another translation, "Recite, in the name of thy sustainer who created".  you may ask whats the difference? there is a world of difference because reading is different from reciting in engllish. Reading is from a book, while reciting is like a poem or could be without a book. But the Arabic word used could take both words and using any one word does not suffice. On the otherhand, the different meanings a word could take can actually destroy the meaning, for example; if u translate a word that means 'pig', in the same english u could say 'swine' or 'cop'. Now if i say muslims shouldnt eat 'cop', someone could run around and say, muslims are not aloud to eat a policeman!. That is the main reason why muslims are proud to stil have their book in the language it was originally sent down, so that u hav the exact words that were used and evene if the translated language words, loose its meaning, u always have a reference.

Now end of of the tutorial (and hope it was helpful).

take a look at this translation from M. ASAD; 5:51 (Asad) O YOU who have attained to faith! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for your allies: they are but allies of one another [72] and whoever of you allies himself with them becomes, verily, one of them; behold, God does not guide such evildoers. [73] -  

now let me cut and paste, the exact foot note for the verse as found in that translation;

Note 72 (Quran Ref: 5:51 )
According to most of the commentators (e.g., Tabari), this means that each of these two communities extends genuine friendship only to its own adherents-i.e., the Jews to the Jews, and ,the Christians to the Christians-and cannot, therefore, be expected to be really friendly towards the followers of the Qur'an. See also 8:73, and the corresponding note.(Quran Ref: 5:51 )

Note 73 (Quran Ref: 5:51 )
Lit., "the evildoing folk": i.e., those who deliberately sin in this respect. As regards the meaning of the "alliance" referred to here, see 3:28, and more particularly 4:139 and the corresponding note, which explains the reference to a believer's loss of his moral identity if he imitates the way of life of, or-in Qur'anic terminology-"allies himself" with, non-Muslims. However, as has been made abundantly clear in 60:7-9 (and implied in verse 57 of this surah), this prohibition of a "moral alliance" with non-Muslims does not constitute an injunction against normal, friendly relations with such of them as are well-disposed towards Muslims. It should be borne in mind that the term wali has several shades of meaning: "ally", "friend", "helper", "protector", etc. The choice of the particular term - and sometimes a -combination of two termms-is always dependent on the context.(Quran Ref: 5:51 )

Now the true understanding of the qur'an can not be achieved by taking verses in isloation, as such, the references are given for the reader to go and read the other verses that relate to this one. And that is why the qur'an has a science  on understanding the qur'an

@toba, thanx for the references;

When the founder exhibited hatred what can we expect from loyal and dedicated followers?

i'll disregard this comment, cos i'll assume u based it on ur wrong understanding of islam.

on ur part i dont really know what u want to achieve by throwing all these accusations. its either u sincerely want to learn OR u have made up ur mind and u are trying all ur best to propagate what u feel u understand about islam(i can assure u that ur understanding leaves alot to be desired).

because i dont really understand ur motive, it would be difficult for me to reply/engage u in any meaningful discussion.

P.S: the hadithSahih Al-Bukhari Hadith 4.660 u quoted is incomplete. for the context of the hadith, i'll advise u to come back and paste it fully. thanx

Narrated byAisha and Ibn Abbas
On his death-bed Allah's Apostle put a sheet over his face and when he felt hot, he would remove it from his face. When in that state (of putting and removing the sheet) he said, "May Allah's Curse be on the Jews and the Christians

well definitely vaccine isn t the same as a cure, since the former is preventive.

interesting

iwu may be part of the problem but deinitely NOT ALL of it.

@Romeo4real,

The Theory of Evolution and Creationism do not even conflict with each other. The contention arises in attempting to fill in the missing gaps and square them  together.

Again, this does not mean the premise of the book is incorrect.  In fact, the book is still the most concrete body of work regarding Evolutionary Biology today.

well, i agree that Darwins work is regarded as the most concrete work of evoltionary biology, but sorry, the premise of the theory is in total conflict with creation. Creation means man was created and the human specie has always been the human specie (nothing about the human race has evolved unless mayb the colour of skin and languages, if u wish to call such things evolution ). On the other hand, evolution theory says man was previously a different specie and became a man (and probably given more time he may bcom something else). I dont see how u intend to say they are not conflicting. Its either u were created or not!!

Chrisbenogor:
Well that is for the individual atheist to decide, me I really don't care much to know.My lack of belief in anything supernatural has little or nothing to do with Mans origin. But I have read the creation story and it is BS.

@Chrisbenogor,
i respect your opinion of not caring much to know, but seriously its worth knowing. It gives some sense of purpose to know how u came into existence.

Give it sum thot in your spare time

for example, if i blieve i was created, then the next logical questn is that, for what purpose?
if on the otherhand, i believe that i evolved from the same root with a monkey, then my purpose is very clear. i.e the same purpose with my ancestors, give me a banana, a tree and a mate and i am as happy as my ancestor. Honestly, comparing a man with a monkey is degrading. Afterall in some communities, ordinarily saying to someone that ur father is a begger is enof insult

mantraa:
Good question and a very common one.  However, it does not make much sense.

There have so far been found over 20 different species of extinct humans. http://www.amazon.com/Last-Human-Twenty-Two-Species-Extinct/dp/0300100477/ref=pd_sim_b_1

Secondly, it is well known that all dogs evolved from wolves, yet there are stll wolves.

Thirdly, animals evolve through a process of natural selection over millions of years.
I hope this helps you to understand.

Respects

@mantraa

un4tunately i'll have to disagree wit u, the questions make sense

1stly, its unfortunate i hav no money to purchase that book, so i couldnt read it
2ndly, the whole idea of creation is that ALL SPECIES WERE CREATED. so your example of dogs and wolves still in existence doesnt hold water, since the creationists believe that both the dog and the wolf were created and as such both should still exist. if anything, the wolf should be no more.
In the same vain, a specie could go extinct not becoz it has evolved but for many other reasons. Eg hunting, or more ecently species like whales due to poaching, or even the dinosaurs that we were told went extinct after a meteorite strike etc. if that falls under natural selection, then its another thing entirely!!

agathamari:
all apes and human subsets evolved from a comon ancestor - which is no longer around. same goes for bears, wild cats, wild dogs, crocodilians, song birds, etc. evolution is like a tree. the common ancestor is the trunk while its decendants are the branches

@agathamari;

i am sorry to say that in my opinion ur example above makes no sense. Hav u ever seen a tree that went extinct and left its branches living?

dexmond:
@Frosbel

The narrator in order to sound like a liberalist made a distinction between radical Islam and Moderate Islam. The truth remains that there is nothing like moderate Islam. Islam as we know it, is a religion that requires blood to appease allah. Mohammed's method of spreading Islam is to come to his victims and tell them that they should believe that he was a prophet or they will not have their head on their neck. Let me bring a quote from the Hadith:

Bukhari Vol. I: 13

"I have been ordered by God to fight with people till they bear testimony to the fact that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is his messenger, and that they establish prayer and pay Zakat (money). If they do it, their blood and their property are safe from me"

The meaning of the above verse is that, Bombimg, Killing infidel instead of preacing to them is ordained in Islam. Do not be decieved, Islam is not of God, it is designed by the Devil to counter the spread of Christianity. By their fruits, Jesus said they shall be known. Can a bad tree bring forth good fruits?

@dexmond,
could u please enlighten us where u got your quotation from; what i have is that:

Bukhari 1.13:
Narrated Abu Huraira: "Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose
Hands my life is, none of you will have faith till he loves me
more than his father and his children."

@SapeleGuy,

its under the crime section, so it equally has to go under politics abi?

@texazzpete,

and yes, the book says that some of the attackers (i think about 3 of them not sure) left footage of their plan. but no mention of bin laden was made in that footage. if the attacker leaves footage of his intent, how does that translate to bin ladens admission?

texazzpete:
Bin Laden admitted to the WTC attacks. Video footage of the attackers dictating their wills have been outed. WTF do you mean by 'logical assertions'?

I stopped taking you seriously after reading this. Were i frosbel, i'd take all your reassurances with a pinch of salt.

@texazzpete, bashdecash;

bin laden never admitted to the 911 attacks. Go and read the official 911 report. There is the declassified 911 report compiled by the US congress committee on 911, it is now in the form of a book, so u can read it. However, there is a guy nicknamed KSM (Khalid Sheikh Mohammed), who is said to have confessed as the master mind of the 911 attacks. He was suposed to be tried in NY but among other things, recently he has denied any guilt and is claiming he was coerced.

Bin laden is just the number one suspect because he is the alleged leader of AlQaeda. Infact, his statement after the attack is that: we are not afraid of saying we have attcked the enemy. Though we didnt attack the enemy, we are very happy and fully endorse the act. (or sumthing like that)

As far as bin laden; he should 1st be caught and convicted in a court. I think they say that a man remains innocent until otherwise proven guilty.

At this point, just for clarification, I FULLY CONDEMNED THOSE ATTACKS. i'm just reacting to your post that bin laden claimed responsibility

mazaje1:
. . . . As for knowing about the power and intelligence of gods I know that Yahweh and Allah are not more intelligent than the people they allegedly created. . . .A simple reading of their books(bible and koran) says so. . . .

@mazaje,

very good reasoning, why would theists think that God/Yahweh/Allah is anymore intelligent than what they created? afterall, the humanbeings are not anymore intelligent than the cars, computers, airplane etc that they have created so far! I agree with u.

furthermore, it is hoped that oneday, the cars, computers, airplane etc wuld be intelligent enough to deny they were created, so why do we keep bothering? very true

Infact, my point would be proven in a century to come when, the cars, computers, airplane  etc evolve as in terminator 3 and take over the entire world. Humans will be in the brink of extinction!!