₦airaland Forum

goldfish80:
There you go.. AvP = Average pass per game

but that's for the Europa league alone and two of those matches were against last season's beaten semifinalists, Athletic Bilbao. You don't expect him playing for Genk to average 100% against Athletic Bilbao that was even difficult for Madrid to defeat? The fact that he won the man of the match in one of those games should tell you what he does

goldfish80:
LOL.. Passing is not one of Sammi's greatest assets. His stats could be up to such percentages because of the team he plays for.
Real Madrid got rid of him because of this limitation which was exposed in the el classico and got Toni Kroos after that dreadful game Barca beat them 5=0...

Ndidi can press but not as good as Onazi. Remember Ndidi is a CB by trade who was converted by Genk to a DM.
His energy levels can't be compared with Onazi who was trained as a CM...
Am sure you will understand my point.

And Barca haven't destroyed Madrid ever since? I remember 6-2, 4-0 and so on.

Khedira left, so also did Ozil and DiMaria, what was their faults too? There is a madrid fanbase called www.managingmadrid.com, they still miss Khedira till this day, he wasn't sold because of his limited passing stats but because of his injury records. In fact, in that team Di Maria was more of the runner then and not Khedira, don't know why you are misinterpreting these things just to suit Onazi, the fact is that there is no room for a poor passer in a good team as simple as that.

Drobga was a CB turned CF, does that mean he can't press? On the contrary, he used to play as the lone forward for Chelsea, pressed the hell out of most defenders back then. I agree with the intial tactical breakdown of the German system, I just disagree with two facts, that the Runner need not be a good passer and that Ndidi cannot be that runner

goldfish80:
He averages 51 passes per game and has a percentage success rate of 74%,while Ogu averages averages 59 passes per game and has 85% success rate out of those 59 passes.
He's basically twice the passer Ndidi is.

source?

goldfish80:
This is exactly what I've been saying. Alot of people overrate Ndidi's play making abilities. Especially his passing,while Statistically it doesn't add up.
Ive followed his stats closely and I can tell he is not a very good passer and this should be no surprise becaus he was trained in his early days as a CB.
However, he is incredible in ariel duels and some other defensive aspects.
Ogu juts like I pointed out earlier is the best passer out of the DM s....

actually those stats are for his Europa leagues alone, check his league stats and see

goldfish80:
Your points are well noted.
But you have to factor in that Rohrs favoured formation is 4-2-3-1 formation. Which is the German national team's formation. Its not strange for Rohr who has worked within the DFB setup for a while to employ this formation.

Coming to the midfield analysis in this formation, it requires a double pivot of a play maker and a runner.
Germany played with Schweinsteiger as the deeplying playmaker while Sammy Khediera is the runner....
Shweinsteiger is required to recycle the ball and hit long passes to the wingers and forward runners to setup a lightning quick counter. While Khediera presses high up the field and distrups the opposition from getting to mark out Shweinsteiger, just like Gattuso used to do for Pirlo and later Vidal at Juve.
The Germans really on Khediera's incredible big engine to drive them from midfield. Midnight you, Kross can do same job Shweinsteiger used to do.

Coming to Nigeria, Onazi could just be our Khediera while Mikel our Shweinsteiger. With either Iwobi or Etebo playing the Ozil role.
In this role, onazi doesn't really require to be a pass master since he has a Mikel playing beside him. His job will be to take away markers from Mikel, while Obi sets attacks from deep... Just like Onazi, Khediera is not a pass master but he uses his energy to steam role teams.

Alot of teams who play 4-2-3-1 formation most times have a player who is limited in passing range in a double Pivot.
Just like Arsenal plays with Carzola the deep lying playmaker and Couqline the energetic but limited passer.

Let's not throw Onazi away yet. He could add alot to the team in a dual pivot role.

point of correction. Khedira is not a limited passer at all, he had an average passing percentage of 87.2% in the Euros. I agree with what you said about the tactical part but even in such a system the runner is never a limited passer. In the semifinal, Can who played that role had a passing percentage of more than 80 as well, Onazi is getting closer to 70 not 80 and that is a major problem. You are making it sound as if Ndidi cannot pressure high up the field? If we really want somebody who can do what Khedira does then it has to be Ogu, if we want someone who can do what Kroos does then we have to play Ndidi. Mikel should be playing the Ozil role with little defensive responsibilities, even if Mikel has to start as the deep lying playmaker, Onazi still isn't the best runner we have, his passing stats are just too poor

OdenigboAroli:
But bros, you no too like Onazi...lol
On a serious note,if I was the coach Ndidi,Ogu and Agbo will all be ahead of Onazi. Don't get me wrong ,dude works hard but I am a lover of ball playing. Get the ball and stretch a sweet smooth pass...No long balls.

Ok I no agree with that Agbo own but Ogu and Ndidi? Absolutely. Fact- You can't run around the field with thesame intensity for 90 mins
Fact- You can pass the ball with thesame intensity for 90 mins, if we can make the Algerians chase the ball for more than 30 minutes altogether in the first half, by 60 mins they will be asking for a 'volleyball time-out', and can we do that with Onazi? Fact- NO
can we do it with Ndidi or Ogu? Fact- YES
but I would prefer Ndidi because he can score once in a while

tbaba1234:
https://www.whoscored.com/PlayerComparison

how convenient of you to use the Europa league alone for Ndidi while you used the entire league ratings for Onazi. Do not forget that the Europa league isn't easy and that he has had to play 180 mins out of the 360 minutes there against Athletic Bilbao. Please, look for the complete stats, last I checked it, Ndidi was closer to 87 and not 70

tbaba1234:
These are the passing stats of Onazi, Ndidi and Ogu.
Ogu has the best passing stats. Ndidi uses more of long balls Onazi has a higher passing % than Ndidi.

source please.

tbaba1234:
I don't agree that our failures to qualify was just because of Mikel-Onazi combo.. I believe that it is a combo that can work well. Onazi is not that terrible a passer. He has better passing stats than Ndidi.

Onazi has better passing stats that Ndidi where and when? I will assume that you made a mistake there.

It wasn't 'just' because of that, we had NFF issues too but it wasn't as if we were playing good football on the field at all, so they do share a bulk of the blame. Midfield is the base, we werent creating chances, we weren't dominating teams even Tanzania

tbaba1234:
Is this stats for one game 51 passes? That is not a good measure. You need more to properly assess.

I believe both Ndidi and Onazi can play together.

yes they absolutely can.

If we were to play a 4-3-3, the midfield will be basically Ndidi as a DMF, Onazi as the CMF that does all the running and Mikel as AMF. In this way, whenever Onazi employs his marking abilities and wins the ball he will always have someone close by who will literally take the ball off his feet so he makes no mistakes, if he wins it near our box, Ndidi will collect it from him straight, if he wins it further upfield, Mikel collects it. Basically he will told to run around like crazy and win possession and just drop the ball when he wins possession which is literally what he does now. But if our coach isn't sold on the idea then Ndidi should be starting ahead of Onazi as our DMF anyday of the week and twice on saturdays

goldfish80:
If it's choice between Ndidi, John Ogu and Eddy. I think John Ogu could be better when playing out from the back...
His pass % stands at 84% from 59 passes, while Ndidi has 74% from 51 passes.

Also let's not be top quick to push Onazi out. This team is used to playing with Onazi, he has the confidence of the defenders and the other midfielders.
His partnership with Mikel haven't been so bad over the years.
We must be careful not to tweeker too much with the team dynamics. Its very important. Just saying...

Just had to add my voice here about Onazi. Onazi and Mikel have both combined briliantly when we have another midfielder in a 4-3-3 formation which Keshi used, first it was Mba and then Babatunde, but the AMF we are using these days plays more like a Suport Striker than an actual AMF so the imbalance is there. If we had another midfielder in there, maybe Aluko for example who will fall back to defend or who moves with the ball then Onazi will start with Mikel, but recently it is usually just Mikel and Onazi in the middle and this has exposed Onazi's defencies, the results? 2 failed Afcon qualifying campaigns, so it's time for an upgrade. I always make reference to what someone said here not long ago, if we are going to play a 3 man midfield then I don't have any problem with Onazi, he called it a marker-ball carrier-runner system or so, but if we have basically 2 persons in midfield then Onazi won't work, his passing abilities is just too poor. A DMF is a position that does not really need 'trust', if a CB gets the ball, there is no other passing outlet for him na,he must pass to the DMF

forgiveness:
Oga, you are wrong. Onazi played as an AMF for Lazio youth team and sometimes as a St/SS.

Before I begin answer ya questions, have you agreed that Onazi is more experience than Ndidi?

as in how? National teams or European tournaments?
And at the 2009 U17 with Obuh, he was registered as a CMF, unfortunately his stats does not exist in whoscored so hey! You can lie sha and I won't catch you

forgiveness:
Oga, e bi like say you just prefer Ndidi to Onazi and that explains all what you just yan nau.

Are you serious! Ndidi is more experience than Onazi?

When it comes to all round Football Onazi na still be d baba.

Do you know the position Onazi played in Lazio youth team?

i have already told you before when we had this discussion that I know he played as a CMF.

Meanwhile tell me how Onazi is the better all round player please? Has Onazi ever being in a team that finished second or even third in their league? No, and even when he was in a top 4 team, he was a bench piece, a squad player, so please(with facts too)tell me how he is better

TheGoodJoe:

As for me, the best of the best is Xabi Alonso. Amazing guy.

you are there. If you are asked to name the best 5 DMFs of all time, 4 or even 5 of them will almost definetly be in the mold of Ndidi(thats the Alonso/Busquet type).

TheGoodJoe:

Please when talking of defensive midfielders and build-up plays, do not leave out Fernandinho before I lose my Temper. LOLS.

Sorry Oga oo! There are just so many examples. Fernandinho is another apt example sef, check his stats, his pass completion percentage is higher than everything else then his chances created too aren't bad at all, I would assume that if he looks at the guy's stats he won't believe that he is a DMF

TheSuperNerd:
As in eh!!! Really Really Overrated! Even Ndidi of 2016 and Onazi of 2013 go join chook mouth for the matter sef.... Experience is important ooo BUT VERY OVERRATED!!!!

I liked this comment because of the part that I highlighted.

TheGoodJoe:

I think philosophy and set up matters when it comes to making this kind of choices. Rohr's built this Super Eagles team with ball players. From the keeper, Ikeme, to Ekong, Balogun and Omeruo, to Mikel, Iheanacho, Iwobi and Ideye.

All these pass well except Onazi. So if we want a smoother transition of the ball from midfield to attack, we need a player like Ndidi, who can shield the defence and help build attacks.

the problem I have with what he is saying is that he thinks Ndidi cannot shield the defence at all. This is what Ndidi is good at, because he does not run around doesn't mean he is immobile, against Athletico Bilbao, he covered the second most distance for any player in that game, he covers more distances than Onazi on the average according to whoscored and transfermarket, I don't just know, let me look for some youtube highlights for him

TheSuperNerd:
Agreed! Not outstanding buy just a good game. I concur... You're really speaking my dialect today.... Wetin hit you??

I received your E-wine today, so there is a good chance that we are drank the same wine this morning.

lakesidepapa:
Smile., As for blocking and covering four, it's the same defensive mid fielder. The former was just an old school. U can't school me, understanding is what matters here. A defensive mid fielder shield for the back four, he cover the space the full backs left when they attack. sometimes, a DM can become a defender and marks the opposition S when the need arises. he connects the defense with the central mid field and lots more. We all knw this.


In my team as a coach, I'll choose Eddy as a DM ahead Ndidi and i'll tell Ndidi to watch Eddy on how the coverage is been done to my taste. I'll wire discipline and tell Onazi to stay at the DM region and avoid running forward. Coverage is the bedrock of a DM, That's all.

you have to change with the climate bro. How many teams in planet Earth still play this style of DMF that you just mentioned? All you just explained are the defensive duties of a DMF not the entire duties of a DMF. A DMF is the passing outlet from the back, it is impossible for Chelsea to build an attack right now without either Matic or Kante touching the ball, same thing happens at Barca with Busquets and so on, so if your DMF cannot pass the ball well what do you do? You start going through your fullbacks and any good opposing coach will immediately counter that because the spaces there are limited. You are talking about the DMFs of the 80s not even the early 2000s, these days a DMF has to have a better passing range and percentage than even a CMF talkless of an AMF, so passing is vital for a DMF now, that's why Onazi is playing for a team fighting against relegation in Turkey and Ndidi is playing in a team who have almost already qualified for the second round of the Europa league.

And thank goodness you aren't a coach, they will sack you after your first training session

TheSuperNerd:
Kelechi had like 3 shots on goal before Siasia took him off.... I was crazy with that decision!!!

Just when Nacho was now growing more influential in the game, you take him off??!!!!!

What rubbish!!!! Siasia messed up then mehn!!!

StatsFacts: Nacho had more attempts than any other Super Eagles player at the time Siasia took him off.

Nacho DID NOT have a poor game

Cc Mickael2

I said he didn't have an outstanding game sha. You can be playing a good game but there was someone who played an outstanding game in the training session who is on the bench, if the coach subs you for such a player it doesn't not undermine your own contributions,it just shows that your game hasn't been outstanding but not really poor. Now if that person comes into the game and tension destroys his nerves, we will all blame the coach but that's the importance of having a team psychologist so it isn't really the coaches' fault.

Nacho didn't have a poor game but he wasn't outstanding either

safarigirl:
talent isn't the ultimate, but it is equally important...that's what the rest of us are saying

then we can agree on that. Let me not reply your other comment then, but what we need is a balance between the two isn't that about right? Some people perform exceptionally well in the training section and then freak out in the main game while others don't, I think that has to do with temperament, that's why good clubsides have excellent physios who will know the psychological condition of the players before the matches and duly psyche them up so that they don't get overwhelmed, but I don't think we have that in the national team that's why using the clubsides to counter this experience argument for the national teams is somehow inappropriate

TheSuperNerd:
Finally!!!! Someone who speaks "English"

lol

lakesidepapa:
Sorry, Ndidi scored a goal against Bilbao. Yes I don't believe in the stats because those that put it in place don't consider some factors.

Ndidi scored two goals in two games against Bilbao, one yesterday and another in the first leg, great goals too.
What factors don't they consider? Sentiments? Or tribalism? Which factor

lakesidepapa:
Coaches have different philosophy and style, If a coach that plays heavy attacking possessing have Ndidi and Eddy in his team and feel Ndidi is fitter and can contribute more into his system, Fine but in general that doesn't say Ndidi is better than Eddy as a blocking four.

which one is a blocking four? Who still plays a blocking four?! Chelsea won the champions league with Mikel as their main defensive midfielder, is Mikel a 'blocking four'? People play with 'covering four' if I may borrow your style of diction, 'covering four' and 'building four', covering four in the sense that the person covers spaces not that he marks the opposing strikers and midfielders one on one.

Infact, for his clubside, Onazi has played more games as a CMF this season because the coach knows that his erratic passes could be dangerous in and around the boxes, he plays as a box to box for them, his main job is to win possession and surrender it to the AMF and arrive late at the box so as to get on the end of any loose ball and shoot. If your discussion is on who is the better CMF, then Ndidi still edges it for me but it will be tight but when it is who is a better DMF?! Nawa o

shogz89:
so the difference was the keeper? Courtois faced chec in the champions league and chec was on the receiving end how about that?

experience isn't the ultimate but it is important. That has been my point all along

TheGoodJoe:

Onazi is a beast when you look at the distance he covers, the high intensity he plays with and the astonishing number of tackles he makes.

But, if we look at it from the Super Eagles being a unit in building repeated attacking plays, Onazi reduces that coherency.

Ndidi can also Marshall the midfield defensively although I doubt he can do it like Onazi but he helps in build-up plays. Remember his combinations with Raheem Lawal in the friendly. Onazi can not make such contributions.

With Mikel, Iwobi, Iheanacho in the team, Ndidi will make a smooth addition to the passing pack.

this is why I like you bro

lakesidepapa:
See lemme tell u something, I don't believe in all these stats. Those statisticians that bring these up don't put in some considerations.

lol. oh conversation ends here. you don't believe in stats? ok so you think scoring two goals in two games against Athletico bilbao is easy? Ronaldo couldn't even manage one. Onazi actually scored his two goals in a single game

safarigirl:
Kelechi wasn't outstanding in the first leg, is it not his rebound that got you your lone goal? Where were all your experienced players when he was hustling his behind for a goal? .3 Sometimes y'all will just switch your narrative to suit your argument

Thank God you didn't try to justify Iwobi's exclusion.

Experience cost us our AFCON place

scoring a goal does not make you outstanding. a player can score a hat trick and still have a poor game.
anyways that ship has sailed, like I said he didn't replace them with experienced players either so I don't get your point

lakesidepapa:
I'm telling u if Eddy have his way to Genk, he will demote him to the bench. Did u watch the Nigeria game against france in 2014? Club doesn't count here and it doesn't play any role. We are talking about quality player. Ndidi is good, not doubt about that, he should come to a very competitive and better league.

How will he come to Genk? will he fly there? If you play good football then you will be signed. if he is good, why did Lazio ship him out? What exactly are you saying? are you comparing the Belgian league with the Turkish league? how will Onazi have his way to Genk? as in if he finds himself in the training ground? but he is.not even good enough to get there. Also if you watched France vs Ecuador in that same works cup, there DMF did a similar job, not to undermine Onazi's achievements but the present Ndidi would have done Vetter and I can almost certainly swear that you haven't watched Ndidi's matches before

TheGoodJoe:

Iheanacho was our most dangerous player in that game. The goal came from his shot if I remember well. Siasia opting to drop Iheanacho and Iwobi was a big mistake.

my point is that he didn't replace them with experienced players either that is entirely different from this our case now

shogz89:
Bros don't overrate experience,, there are some situation that your experience won't help you but individual brilliance... If that's the case petr chec won't have been sold to arsenal... All this keeper stuff self,, if you don't have a good defense, even the most experience goalie will concede stupid goals... Example De gea, courtois of last season and so on.. Our major concern should be the defence.

Arsenal with Cech finished above Chelsea with Courtouis, never underestimate that factor called experience

TheGoodJoe:
What happened to all the experienced forwards that Iwobi and Iheanacho are ahead of them in the Super Eagles. Experience is overrated. Play the best.

but we all know the coach didn't invite the best for that match, that's different