₦airaland Forum

iblawi:
If the MI-35 is meant to carry troops to battle ground then what is the use of Mi-17? We have MI-17 helicopters armed with weapons too.


When did Russia start using MI-28 and Ka-50?

Again doctrine!


Like I said APCs can only deliver troops but support them! An IFV will carry troops and support them

Even if you mount a HMG or cannon that will still be inefficient.

If the Hind design was so effective you would have seen the world developing such a helicopters with troop carrying capabilities. But from Europe, India to China attack helicopters are still taking the shape of the Cobra with a tandem cockpit and no troop carrying capabilities.

jteku:
"It has outstanding "hot and high" performance, illustrated by its 5,545m "out-of-ground effect" hover ceiling (the height at which it can hover without the cushion of air caused by rotor downwash). The next best is the US Apache (3,866m), followed by the Russian Mi-28 and Ka-52 (3,600m); the Franco-German Tiger (3,200m) and the Chinese WZ-10 (2,000m).[font=Lucida Sans Unicode][/font]


With this statistics above does that mean Rooivalk is better than an Apache or MI-28 or Ka-52

In terms of raw flight performance it indeed is.

kabe1:
What sort of a silly comparison are you making with the Tucano? Does the Tucano produce 27,560 lbf of power from it's engine?



The Rooivalk produces 1,904 shp of power from each engine, while the MI-35m produces 2 200 hp of power from one of it's 2 engines. The MI-35m produces more power than the Rooivalk.


There is nothing like a dedicated attack role. The MI-35m is an attack helicopter just like the Rooivalk, MI-28, KA-52, Apache, Euro Tiger. It can perform all the roles these helicopters can perform and is significantly better than the Rooivalk.


The Russians in Syria use the MI-35m/MI-24 for over 65% of their combat missions. Despite having KA-52's and MI-28s deployed.

Improvements made in the MI-35m vastly improves the capabilities of the helicopter. This is why the Venezuelan Air Force also went for the MI-35m.


I'm sorry, but you're making no reasonable point.

The primary role of aircraft like Apache, Rooivalk, Z-10 etc is to conduct airstrikes.

Analogy: Main battle tanks and Infantry fighting vehicles.

The role of tanks is to provide direct fire.

Infantry fighting vehicles carry troops to the battle and provide fire support.

Infantry fighting vehicles can offer some of the capabilities offered by tanks but will lack in areas such armour protection, fire power etc.

END!


The Hind design philosophy is similar to Infantry fighting vehicles by carrying troops then unlike utility helicopters or APCs which will retreat back from the front line. The Hind will drop it's payload and continue the supporting the troops.

This characteristic means the aircraft silhouette is increased.

Mi-28 is a dedicated attack helicopter the inclusion of a small space for personnel doesn't change that. Similar to the Merkeva main battle tank it has a small compartment for personnel that doesn't mean the tank is an IFV.

Performance!

South Africa during the so called boarder war operated helicopters in areas with an average height at times of 1000m+ above sea-level. This places restrictions on the capabilities of helicopters. In fact the Super frelon which was larger than the Puma was out performed by later's latest at the time.

The Puma being able to carry far heavier payloads in those conditions conditions than the Frelon. Today the Oryx still out performs lastest helicopters like the Cougar in those conditions.

In those conditions the Rooivalk out performs the Hind. It isn't as agile.

Armament:

The Denel helicopter carries heavier payload.

Chin mounted cannon: F2 20×139mm gun firing a longer round with a higher muzzle velocity compared to the twin barrel Gsh-23 23×115mm gun on the hind. Longer range!

16 Air to ground missiles can be carried!

kabe1:
Isn't it better to deploy an AGL with a blast radius of 10 meters at squad level, then call in fire support from a 23mm Infantry Support Vehicle.


Don't you lose that area effect with a hand held 20mm weapon?

Remember you can fire at an effective range of between 2 - 4 KM with a grenade launcher. Of course much lesser with a hand held one.

I don't quite get the benefit of having a 20mm at squad level?

From your bedroom network enabled command centre?


Using a Battalion support weapon at the section level?

Are we in the future? Soldiers now have exoskeletons?

Do you know what a squad is?

Every squad in the Nigerian army will carry and run around with an AGL!

How about a ground attack aircraft dedicated to every company too?

Dum.....b..st thing I have heard since augubugubu.

kabe1:
Isn't the Inkuzi basically a 20mm? Why the whole hysteria and what's so special about it besides been a 20mm?

What also makes it different from the 23mm already deployed in the fire support role by multiple armies?

Show me a 23mm hand held weapon system!

That can be utilized down at the squad level!

Inkuzi! A weapon if introduced into service with the SA army stands a chance to do what the Y2 MGL did to single grenade launchers!

Expanding sections?

Adds more fire power!

2iCs in the future might have no poor machine gunners to scream at?: Introduction of highly accurate fire/Specialists.

TrueHeart365:
but seriously, some Nigerians here need to behave abeg.

no be everything be quarrel. how can you compare mi-35 to rooivalk.

they are not of the same class abeg.

one is a dedicated AH and the other isn't

Thank you!

I don't know why we can't just post pictures.

giles14:
free me.
your attack helicopter rooivalk is only of the same as the Chinese n Indian AH program.

tommorow you will say your MBT is in de same class as the T90 ,Abram tank n leopard 2 tank.

Can't see the difference between heavy and light attack helicopters?

Did you know: The Indian attack helicopter uses SA's developed Electronic counter measures?

The Tiger attack helicopter which was developed by European countries started in the 80s and production standard aircraft were too delivered in the 2000s. Though the Tiger is a light scout type helicopter.

Engage in topics you are knowledgeable about!

Picture: Tawazun Dynamics Al tariq guided bomb kit. Operationally utilised by the UAE air force. Modular kit. Boosters, data link, different seekers etc can be added.

giles14:
Mr retarded .
don't forget ur rooivalk development was between 1990~2007.
26yrs old

so Google well b4 displaying ur ignorance.

If you don't know something refrain from making comments. Cause you end up spewing nonse..nse like the above!

Picture: ThoroughTec, they'll be providing the army with the Badger IFV simulators.

giles14:
please stop deceiving urslf.


ur rooivalk is in pair with the Mi24 series.
its not even up to the Mi35p.

rooivalk is an old bird.

Post pictures and stop writing nons....ense.

SA Navy T-craft IPV.

frumentius:
I myself am partial to this argument. A self-propelled G7 would be a wondrous beast.

Yes the howitzer not gun.

Off topic: Al tariq guided bomb kit operationally deployed by the UAE. SAAF still stark with the less capable Paveway.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq2J96Kt15k&fulldescription=1&client=mv-google&hl=en-GB&gl=ZA

frumentius:
Maybe not the 30mm, but a weapon for self-defence.


Haha...no such thing as too much dakka

It will have a MG for self protection.

Provides overwatch. Securing the field by knocking out enemy armour before they interfere or get close to return fire.

I know! Some people are still saying Denel should have equipped the Badger with a 105mm cannon.

frumentius:
The Malaysian ATGM combo with the 30mm is the turret we should have gone for.

The 30mm on the missile would have been useless. Wouldn't it?

Yeah, In the book of Patches the LCT30 with the ATGM means much mooooore di..........k. What I wanna see are the type of sensors intergrated into it.


Like the Fire support variant should have advanced/better sensors and carry more ammunition than the section variant.

bidexiii:
If it's not made in Russia then the other replica are just joke......

What about the war-head/rockets; that's what makes the RPG deadly. There various rockets for different purpose & use made by Russians that are more devastating like the "vampire" that has caused serious loss of the makeva MBT during the Second Lebanon War with Hezbollah in 2006.Tel-Aviv confirmed the loss of eight Merkava tanks. The Vampire is now actively being used in Syria by both armies.

Don't also forget the PG-7VP, has a tandem charge; the first acts as a decoy for the tank’s reactive armour, while the second punches through the armour and also the thermobaric rounds.

The RPG 7 is a product design of the 80's and it's still a treat to any modern MBT till date. So why compare it with something recent.

"decoy for the tank's reactive armour".

Off topic: Malaysian army AV8 Gempita Infantry fighting vehicles firing it's EMAK 30mm gun.


Designed and produced by Denel land systems for Project Hoefyster(Badger IFV) but as seen already exported to Malaysia.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLz75ry5-LY&itct=CBMQpDAYAyITCPT9yZ3sodECFVyiVQod5zoFK1IfQmFkZ2VyIElGViBmaXJpbmcgaW5nd2UgbWlzc2lsZQ%3D%3D&gl=ZA&hl=en-GB&client=mv-google

61mech:
It was largely funded by Saab. The IP is theirs to do with what they want. The SANDF have not been able to fund anything in the last decade.

These cooperative projects are the only way the local defence industry will survive. Its utterly pointless for them to rely on the SA gov. for contracts. Companies like Paramount don't even cater for the SANDF and focus exclusively on the international market.

The army funded most/largely the development.


The SANDF has funded some projects. Like the Marlin missile demonstrator, the Umbani/Al tariq PGM (now combat tested) etc.


Skills maintained. But Denel products need operational usage by the defence to create damand.

africaken254:
just saw photos of a turkish army Otokar Cobra vehicle with a mounted turkish remote weapon system,it was undamaged .it looks like the occupant just fled and left the vehicle now in the hands of ISIS.Whats wrong with turkey army !

Coup effects.

jakeporeshenko:
Haha you're asking me ? This video was in the press briefing by theatre commander operational lafiya dole, in this same video it is highlighted that the aircraft is an A-jet it did not specify who's it is, but I hope you're definitely convinced that not an su-25

Probably Cameroon's.

Or the Nigerian air force adopted the camouflage scheme for the ground attack role those jets are used for. The ones from the US.

nemesis2u:
ATAGS firing in howitzer mode

Based on the FH77/A 155mm howitzer?

nemesis2u:
The Swedish defense company SAAB and Indian company Tata Power Strategic Engineering Division (Tata Power SED) have started the process of manufacturing Self-Protection Systems for Land-based Platforms, for the Indian market and for export to SAAB’s global market.

According to the company’s’ announcement, the partnership will also involve joint development of the next generation Self-Protection System. ‘The process of Transfer of Technology for production of initial orders for SAAB’s global customers has already commenced at Tata Power SED.’s facility in Bangalore.’ Saab announced, Tata Power SED will eventually manufacture a large part of the system in India and also do final assembly. Tata will also be responsible for marketing the system in India.

At Defexpo 2016 Tata displayed a model of T-90 fitted with LEDS 150 active protection system, comprising radar sensors and traversable countermeasure dispensers designed to protect the tank from anti-tank missiles and RPGs.

http://defense-update.com/20160330_leds_india.html

until now, LEDS has been manufactured by Saab's South African subsidiary Saab Grintek Defence, with the new deal marking the first time the system will be produced not only in India but anywhere outside of South Africa. The Indian LEDS 50 units will initially be manufactured at Tata Power SED's eleven-acre manufacturing facility in Bangalore.

Denel Dynamics Mongoose missile.

Development in the freezer cause the army lacks funds.

africaken254:
off topic:another western piece of junk ,baptism by fire in Syria

There's a reason why Russian special forces are kitted like their western counter parts.

Wingback:
There's this video of Frosting troops shooting BH from both sides Left and Right and they all looked skinny with Ak47s and shít...Those are the real Troops not all this special forces that warm their beds every night with some fancy Chinese ware, does anyone have the video?

The video where they are taking cover behind some road during contact. Then suddenly someone supposedly a section commander orders his men to engage the enemy behind them?

Henry240:
What almost all look the same.

The kit used by the ST units in Syria. The helmets, uniform, rifles etc.

africaken254:
how! it seems your not understanding the kind of environment i am talking about ! at which distance can you see with you Mark 1 eyeball! your carrying a G-3 rifle with a range of Effective firing range 500 metres,how effective are you going to be against an ATGM ! so did saddan with his countless T-72 tanks during Gulf war 1,the russian thought their numerical advantage would help them in the first chechen war campaign but ended up being a disaster

The T-72 would have been successful if they had modern ammunition, fire control system and not the mechanical driven turret.

How do infantry deal with snipers, mortars, machine guns and other weapon outside the effective range of their assault rifles?

Henry240:
** I'll like to correct an error i made a couple weeks back on the size of Turkey in NATO. I initially said Turkey has the 4rd largest military in NATO behind the US, UK and France.

Actually the Turks have the 2nd largest military in NATO, only behind the US.

In my opinion, Turkey deploying Tanks and IFVs, without large scale Infantry was a very bad idea. Syria sits right on the border, the idea of copying Western partners in sending only SF is a bad, terrible idea. Not like their Special Forces have been effective anyway, i mean, when compared to the Russians, the other SF units operating in Syria seem to be a bunch of over-pampered babies.

The Turks would eventually take Al bab, but the losses we are currently seeing could have been avoided.

Other special forces from the coalition seem ineffective cause of the strategy western nations have adopted.

unrelated: They all almost look the same.

africaken254:
whats will infantry do when your enemy is targeting your armour using ATGM with ranges of 4 -7km !(most of the clashes between ISIS and turkish troops aren't in densely urban areas) also turkey having more personnel does equate to strength.china has the second largest air force in the world but most of the planes are second generation MIG-21 variants

They provide a screen.

In Angola in the initial stages of the 88 battles South Africa deployed "Tank hunter teams" equipped with missiles. The Angolans simply used infantry to screen the tanks.

They aren't destroyed at long ranges.

Patchesagain:
Sorry for off topic

But... The Turks (and their Leo 2A4s) aren't doing so well...

The Turks aren't doing well.


Great time for Denel and Saab to market their LED-150 active protection system. Still wish since the active protection system was funded by the army that it was intergrated into Project hoefyster or Arum Lily.

Henry240:
I remember specifically making this comment. Didn't you see it in the post you quoted?

You don't think that's the reason I asked?

Henry240:
Nigerian navy NNS Aradu in the dock.


*I don't know when the photo was taken, I have no answers to any question(s), that might or might not be raised .

Is she in dry dock?

africaken254:
Off topic :ISIS just released propaganda video burning to death two Turkish soldiers captured,like they did to that Jordanian pilot .erdogan need to wake up,this are demons

Stripping off the military's biggest and elite units it's senior and general officers having an effect.

Certain understanding of employment of weapon systems in complex environments is needed.

Henry240:
Not am excuse. Special forces are built specifically to fight unconventional battles. This is what Syria is, they got the air power, they regularly sling cruise missiles from 2000km away, they got highly trained commandos, they got thousands of other allied local soldiers, they all carry ATGMs, yet they still aren't making any progress .

This is what Syria is, a giant cluster fvck were none of the big powers have done anything.


If the commandos can't fight the unconventional warfare , what then can they actually do?


What makes them Special?

Not necessarily. Semi-conventional.


If one of the wanted any major city they would have done it within weeks.

The quality of the special forces on the ground means those countries can avoid deploying heavy and high number of troops.

Henry240:
Speed and firepower compliments the lack of protection as long as you don't employ it in a direct fire support role. If Armies, when i say armies, i mean African armies use them in the suppose Recon and Unconventional role.

For now, only South-Africa, Zambia and Namibia, possibly Egypt use them. The Nigerian Air Force also uses them, but for Base defence only, hopefully this would change in the future.

Botswana etc.