₦airaland Forum

patches689:
blast from the past

Belongs in the trash can.

ActivateKruger:
So do you suggest an acquisition of a Denel modified Super Puma?

A Super Puma would be like modifying the Oryx offering nothing new.


Maybe a local EC275.

ActivateKruger:
Maybe getting 2 Eurocopter EC725 per year would do then enlarge the fuel tanks like the Oryx to give it longer range... As you said, days of large arms acquisition are over and they tend to attract so much unnecessary media attention while the red-barret opposition party demands freebies.

As for the Russian equipment = poor-man's army.

The EC725 will replace the Oryx on paper.

Cause Denel's old antelope out performs that bird. In SAAF operational environments the EC725 will be like Super Frelon promising a lot on paper but in reality the helicopter was equally matched in performance by later models of the Puma.

Large arms acquisition is the way forward or else will end up with multiple weapon systems serving the same purpose at different efficiencies. By large acquisition I don't mean arms deal type of acquisition where all needs are bundled into one deal.

But deals like the Badger IFV.

The best deal would for an international company partnering with Denel or Paramount and offer a highly modified bird. The A109's performance is disappointing.

ActivateKruger:
How useful could a Chinook or its equivalent be in our own Air Force provided we had a budget for it?

Supporting light forces during rapid response missions: Light artillery, Airborne assault infantry reinforcements, Helping vehicles cross obstacles( Eg Rivers), Communications support etc

The SANDF needs the capability to airlift an entire paratroopers battalion with fixed wing aircraft at a single wave.

That must also be the case with the Airborne assault infantry chaps.

I believe if we were to fight against a well organized enemy(conventional force) in areas like the DRC it would always be easy for them to break contact.

Hrmnn:
Thanks for the welcome!

Yes, I was speaking specifically about all the advanced electronics in the T-90, sorry if that was not being made clear.

I'm a little confused as to why Ratel90s never went out to hunt tanks, because if I'm remembering my SANDF history right they were organised into "anti-tank troops". Why would they call it an anti-tank troop or anti-tank platoon unless they were specifically used to kill tanks? Perhaps you can enlighten me on this.

Also, were the Rooikat and Eland ever deployed against T-55s? I wonder how they performed, would make for interesting reading.

Ratels are lightly amoured to take on tanks.

The Rooikat entered service after fighting in Angola came to an end.

Yes, vehicles like the Ratel-90 did destroy a lot of T-55s tanks.

Name the vehicle and unit for 10 internets.
"Operationally used"
"Proven concept"

Henry240:
Wars are not won like that. Numbers on paper don't mean sh*t when actual combat begins. Like in 1976, the Israelis would use the Arabs to mop the floor again.

Same thing in the "6 day war".


In 76, the numbers were stacked against Israel, men and equipment. The Israelis took on Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, yet the Israelis still came out on top.

Depends on USA support.


Israel can't like many countries fight a war without war supplies running dangerously low within weeks.

jln115:
Yet Ratel 90s and Ratel ZT3s killed many many more enemy tanks than our own Olifant!! hell we deployed less than 30 Olifant vs 150 enemy Tanks at Cuito, yet look at the result!

The Ratels did score many tank kills but crews were endangered.

But look at factors:

1. SA deployed EW capabilities.

- Communications jamming.

2. Incompetence of the Angolan tank crews. In the late 80s that was starting to change.

- Angolan armour soldiers were starting to be of higher quality than their regular infantry.

The Ratel.

The Ratel-90 sought of replaced the Eland-90. Using the same turret and gun. To kill a T-55 MBT the Ratel-90 had to get up close and had to use more than one shot or one luck shot to penetrate and kill it.

The deployment of the Olifant alongside 4 SAI was cause of the threat of the T-55s. There was no effective tool in dealing with them.

Initially South Africa deployed "specialists" to hunt and destroy them (T-55s) but the Angolans would simply use infantry to screen them.

The Ratel-ZT3 was still a prototype and these are under command of the battalion OC. Covering the flanks of attacking force etc. They didn't get many kills with their "Mongol missiles".

I'm personally not a fan of putting larger guns of Infantry fighting vehicles. As they have larger silhouettes cause of their infantry compartments. Making them easier targets. As larger guns means they'll be utilized as tanks killers. Lacking armour.

Being used outside their intended role. Just like Eland and Ratel.

Vehicles like Ratel-90, Rooikat should be used for tasks such as combat reconnaissance not combat against tanks. They'll be a snack for competent MBTs crews!

jln115:
Well , new tank development isn't going to come from down South, we figured out that the whole idea of the tank is a short coming in Southern Africa!

Not really.

Nothing is more effective at destroying main battle tanks than another an enemy main battle tank.


Southern Africa might not be "tank friendly" environment but encountering a foe with MBTs. Will have you wishing you had tanks too. The SADF deployed the Olifant cause units of the 20 SA brigade in the Angola had to be cautious attacking enemy units reinforced with tanks.

1. New main battle tank.

2. New light armour.

3. New or enhanced medium armour.

frumentius:
It's 4 pods on ops in the DRC. Might be wrong, but I think the outer pylon is for AAMs.

The outer hard points are for AAMs.

4 rocket pods can be carried.

africaken254:
you go offline for almost two weeks,now i am being asked my e mail and being given confirmation code

i was off the grid, i dont want to be a addict

kenya

Too late.

ActivateKruger:
Range of the 30mm cannon it's armed with is 3-5km. At that range, it's known that Soviet era AAs can nock it out.... At night, it's own rounds expose it.

On the ground.


Tracer rounds only.

The are used in low threat areas. But can stay in the air longer and respond when needed.

SAAF used the K-Cars in Namibia and Angola armedy with a 20mm cannon.


Mostly used to support recconaissance units.

That Italian aircraft has PGMs.

ActivateKruger:
Range of the 30mm cannon it's armed with is 3-5km. At that range, it's known that Soviet era AAs can nock it out.... At night, it's own rounds expose it.

On the ground.


Tracer rounds only.

The are used in low threat areas. But can stay in the air longer and respond when needed.

SAAF used the K-Cars in Namibia and Angola armed with a 20mm cannon.


Mostly used to support recconaissance units.

That Italian aircraft has PGMs.

ActivateKruger:
For such (slow) gunships, I would prefer they're also armed with 76mm cannon loaded with AHEAD ammo. I wouldn't want to drop down to 3km to fire the 30mm cannon, too risky.

They won't drop to that altitude.

They are mostly used at night in high risk areas.

They are also armed with PGMs.

frumentius:
The Ugandan camps are far more spartan than the Rwandese ones. Then of course the rumour that the senior cadre in
Rwanda endure the hardship of hotels. I suspect Makenga will surface in Rwanda.

You're correct about our COIN doctrine. There was a flurry of activity 2 years ago when Big 5 made the discovery, but then it died down. A whole bunch of people from Denel, CSIR, DI, SSA and JOps went out there, the right noises were made and then nothing. Back then the ADF had seemingly tried to target Congolese Hind pilots and their East European merc colleagues as they were transported to and from the airport base.

Indeed, "senior" or former rebel leaders like Laurent Nkunda are said to be "under house arrest".

Attention will be given when things really start blowing up.

Anyway surrounded by stable states I doubt they'll turn east DRC into Mali or Somalia.

nemesis2u:
RCWS r always the best options but why dont we see them in larger numbers in technicals?

cost , maintenance , technology intensive , many not replaceable on the field etc etc.

i proposed a cheap bare minimum mechanical solution with circular and vertical traverse together with the mounting pedestal , add a simple optical gun periscope and ur done . this suggestion is for the quad 14.5mm HMG guns i posted about only .

The SROW with the Inkuzi strike weapon looks good and capable. would love to have more info about it

in the end i prefer the RCWS but somebody find me the money to buy and maintain it

The SDROW (Self defence remotely operated weapon) uses light machine guns. The version I posted mounts the 20mm Inkunzi strike weapon

Inkunzi strike weapon.

In my view it is a cross between a machine gun and a grenade launcher.  Using 20x42 mm ammunition with a flatter trajectory. Able to put our between 200 - 350 rounds per minute. It is belt fed. Part of a family of weapons designed around the Denel 20x42 mm ammunition.

SDROW.

Is modular different cameras and weapons can be used. Able to detect human size targets up to 2kms.

Meerkat.

The system houses the the RCWS inside an armoured shell. The system retracts the weapon into the vehicle until it is needed. Giving the vehicle a none aggressive look when around men.

On the technicals question they are mostly used by ill equipped forces or units using asymmetric warfare tactics. They have soft skins. RCWS offer the capability to engage the enemy under armour mounting them on a Toyota land cruiser or an equivalent defeats the purpose.

My problem with the quad guns is that they'll need a lot of power to operate and won't traverse 360 degrees.

frumentius:
I can confirm that as from 22h00 last night, both Ugandan intelligence and UPDF said they do not know his whereabouts.
Personally I do not think the Colonel is into self-flagellation. It has been rumoured that conditions for M23 in Rwanda are far more hospitable than Uganda.

Pertinent for us is the IED which targeted Indian troops on their morning run in Goma a few days ago. 2 years ago the Recces discovered the remnants of what might have been a ramshackle IED "school" deep in the jungle, and there's been unconfirmed reports of Al-shabaab training the ADF ever since.
Speedy recovery to the 32 Indian troopies.

Last I checked they were kept in camps.


Bertrand Bisimwa was political leader of the movement. Seeing many connect the event with the current political situation in the DRC. The postponed elections.

Anyway like some said before the SANDF needs an incentive to upgrade the COIN doctrine as mostly is based on unit structures which no longer exist. Association with oppressive apartheid regimes should be stopped.

patches689:
He that desperate to get clobbered again?

This time the Rooivalk gets an international order.

I doubt the reports though. He had health problems during the last days of the campaign in the DRC.

patches689:
He that desperate to get clobbered again?

This time the Rooivalk gets an international order.

I doubt the reports though. He had health problems during the last days of the campaign in the DRC.

Multiple sources reporting Colonel Sultani Makenga has left Uganda with a bunch of rebels for the DRC.

He's a former commander of the disbanded M23 rebels. Though the rebels called him a Brigadier General he defected from FARDC with the rank of Colonel.

Fled and surrendered to Ugandan authorities after being defeated by FARDC force supported by MONUSCO's FIB which SA has a battalion group.

frumentius:
Personally I think it's a vanity project for the politicians [what other planned Denel product has made it onto a ministerial and presidential speech?] . That market segment is saturated. Other than "it's African", what else? Denel will never achieve the economies of scale to compete on price. I'll tell you what though: I have no doubt they'll produce something great and that's fantastic for all the young engineers at Denel. Not so great for SA as the big boys will scoop them all up as usual .

Seeing Denel isn't exactly awash in funds, shouldn't they have completed the myriad commercially-viable military projects they have on their books? Bateleur MALE UAV, Mongoose etc...Hell, the Armour guys were just saying they need a Scout car lighter than Rooikat and more robust than Eland.

The Mongoose is developed with Saab as part of an active protection system.


The armour guys need both a new medium or light armoured cars.

The Rooikat is getting old. Hybrid drive, New FCS, new gum, armour, protection system etc.

The reason some of those projects are on ice is that most projects are funded by DoD.

nemesis2u:
interesting
remotely operated quad 14.5mm HMG can be used as RCWS (myanmer)

against BH alshabab ISIS etc countries can make something like this and put it on the 4X4 vehicles (technicals)
operated by a jot stick make it lighter and compact maybe , with simple gun sight periscope , low tech, maintenance free, cheap and effective

Technicals are a short term solution.

Wouldn't it be a bit huge for vehicles such as the Toyota land cruiser?

Anyway since we are on RCWS(s)! An interesting RCWS: The SROW with the Inkuzi strike weapon.

Henry240:
The Super Tucano according to the Air Force would replace the Alpha jet which have 2 or 3 years of service life left. They are needed.

My problem with the arhlac is, it is a new platform. What we need is a tested platform that is equally nimble enough to turn in a dime.

The Super Tucano will never replace the Alpha jets.

Different.


Nigeria needs fighter training aircraft to bridge the gap between your air force basic flight training aircraft and the F-7 or the JF-17 if it is be acquired.

Maybe the L-15(type acquired by Zambia).

Odunayaw:
except new weapons start flowing from wherever de get it..the best they have is a 12.7mm (in vertical position )

Looks like this. The Lynx!

Designed to operate in low threat environment

DEATHMACHINE:
hmmmmm God knows best ,he was a great man ,at the heat of the gwoza battle I feared the worse when BHT lowered and fired a 105mm pack howitzer on his tank, countless VBIED yet he kept charging forward.his voice always had this assurance of victory. we are glad knowing you are in a better place as a hero.we pledge to keep killing on till we get to the last vermin.

105mm.

giles14:
since wen did Iran buy d jf17

Lmao!

Dude he just the said the picture was photoshopped.

Tochex101:
We need our new jets ASAP!

Why ASAP?


The death of the officer will have no strategic impact on the war. BH have been on the back foot.

Henry240:
Like i've consistently argued, these vehicles can only work effectively if the operators have dedicated air support.

Work?

They have been utilised for many decades. And have proven their worth in reccon, raiding etc.

overhypedsteve:
or a few of these.

Pics: Gun truck used by a rebel group in Libya.

Carries heavier fire power and indirect fire support weapons.

overhypedsteve:
OK. But we can be sure that when it comes under fire from an ambush the men in that thing may return home in brown boxes wrapped with the flags of our fathers. It is too exposed. Maybe it would work during the dry season in the Nigerian Northeast but now the vegetation there makes planning an ambush very easy. Such vehicle should move in columns.

MNJTF CTCOIN.

Nope.

Unless they are ambushed by tanks.

Henry240:
For his gallantry performance at the battle field, lt.col
Muhammad Abu Ali was promoted by the Nigerian Army to
the rank of Lt.col and he was decorated by the Army Chief,
Lt. Gen. Tukur Buratai in Sept 2015.
His subordinates hail and celebrate with him.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zey0wu5SAMo

How long are these guys deployed? Two years?

IbnSultaan:
Oga Ali rest in perfect peace

Opinion: Should images like this be shared?

Is this the image your military wants "people" to have in their minds when they remember their hero? Body bag!