FOLYKAZE:

Much like when one goes to see a modern medical doctor, going to the Babalawo starts off with something much like diagnosis right? The doctor will bring out his instruments and check you up. Information gotten from this equipments are what the doctor would interpret and detail you about your body system.

When the doctor physically check you out with instruments such as stethoscope, thermometer, etc. the Babalawo will consult the Ifa on your behalf. Babalawo will places it either on your arm or your forehead and ask Ifa what the energies in your situation are. Even if you do not reveal any symptoms or say details to the Babalawo, they will consult Ifa and Ifa will reveal all. The Babalawo must interpret the divination and they will most usually do so with the use of Ese.

There is this nurse I live with when I was young. She had a digital medical check kit that look pen. I have forgotten it name. When I read info stated on this kit by checking myself, it meaniless to me but it contain some informations which the nurse know and understand. So the Nurse said what the kit stated. Hope you understand?



Note something Mr. English terms does not convey the whole picture of an expression sometimes. That is why I prefer conception than vocabularies.

Ebo in Yoruba = Nourishment in English.

When you nourish energies, it is not in the same sense when we grind food with our teeths and roll it with our tongue.

And again, understand that my explanation on sacrifices wont give the whole picture as I personally do not understand the whole logic around it.

Metaphysically speaking, within the universe we are all connected to each other on earth. We are all connected by energy - we are made up of millions of tiny molecules and so is everything else.

Sacrifice actively recharge an Orisa’s cosmic ase-battery. Sacrificing an animal nourishes the spirits (with blood) and the community (with meat) thereby indexing the powerful link between humanity and the Orisa as they are both nourished by a single ritual process. What sacrifice does is nourish the Orisa’s ase that is intrinsic to their existence which then gives the ase inherent in Orisa pots more efficacy, power, and presence.

Quantum physics is showing that everything in the universe is energy and electrical currents. Who knows if the content in the blood can devise and manipulate this energies? Lets take for example.... Sacrificing a blood to Ogun. Ogun is Iron. What you pour the blood on and the blood itself contain iron in different degrees and charges. Who knows when the two contact, it lead to cosmic ether? The possible way that it works, from a scientific and quantum mechanic standpoint, is that the sacrifice, emits electromagnetic wavelengths. Everything in the universe works on waves, from physical objects, to electricity, to ideas.

Given enough patience and focus, our electromagnetic "brain waves", if you will, can be subconsciously manipulated to alter the way we interact with the universe.

I think i'm gonna call a time out on bullshit. Time out!!!

Magic is an art which does not have detailed explanation yet.

Real Witchcraft is a spiritual art rooted in nature & psychology, not hocus-pocus like fiction.

I didn't claim the person burning with fire is doing magic. I even said the stunt could be trick. So understand me pls

magic is skillful trickery.

there's nothing like real witchcraft. just some magic mixed with superstition and enough fear mongering.

Reyginus: The question cannot happen. It is irrelevant in this case. Feelings are only a function of living things, and not non-living things.

So for your question to be logical enough to evoke an answer it has to be logical enough to admit into its fold things capable of feeling pain.

the question is logical enough. its simple really, do dead people feel anything? I think the answer is no. this means that euthanasia aims to remove the pain associated with the terminal illness. like LB said, its the choice between dying painfully and dying painlessly.

Of course I know that. But in this thread, we have subconsciously assumed 'pain' as the reason behind every other reason. Like a form of synecdoche where a part of the whole is tasked to represent all.
Lol. C'mon! Bro, don't act as if I have deviated so early from the track.

I was only trying to prove a point with that analogy, which is, that even though to a brain dead allowing to die is synonymius to Euthanasia, it is no longer Euthanasia when it is money oriented.

we didn't subconsciously assume anything. we just focused on the pain aspect.

@bold, what is that? lol. are you trying to redefine euthanasia now?

macof:

As I always say "God" is a term of personification

God is anything you want it to be.

Reyginus: Lol. Calm down, bro. We are not doing dialectics. She alone opted for it.

so you wan win argument by trickery abi?

Reyginus: No. What about you?

you'd be surprised

If a dead person experiences no pain, add no pleasure too, which I have been emphasizing on from the beginning, how then were you able to come with the statement that Euthanasia is performed to alleviate the pain?

Or can you claim to alleviate the pain in a thing that doesn't exist?

do you agree that a dead person feels no pain? lets start from there...

Even to that extent, we cannot call a disconnection caused by the lack of money to sustain him, Euthanasia. This is because it was not performed out of a desire to terminate pain but out of insufficient funds. I don't know if you get the point.

There are so many poor people in our society today suffering from ailments far above their income. People who know they are sick but cannot afford to pay for treatment. They just live with it, but instead of falling for Euthanasia they allow themselves to die.

@bold, euthanasia is performed for several reasons, not just to alleviate physical pain.

@red, euthanasia is not forced on anybody. you can choose to suffer through the pain till you die, your call. the issue on ground is, what if someone should decide to go for it? why is it wrong?

^^^
that was a trick question he asked.

Evolution, like nature, is neither good nor bad. it just is. it is our perception that tries to give it a moral character. why don't you ask the 99% of extinct species whether evolution is morally good or bad?

Reyginus has specialized in false dichotomy in this thread. lol

Joshthefirst: hello troll. Sorry, but people like me always come up to adress foolishness and delusions.

ok.

kolawaxxy: let me answer this; I do not know. I wish I knew. I would have gladly worshipped whatever it is that caused God to be. But since I've not yet known, I'll keep worshipping God.

but somehow you know God caused this universe?

Reyginus: It is not really hinged on that. It is but a possibility whose efficacy we must not neglect. It is possible, my friend.

lol. have you ever been in a real situation where euthanasia is being considered?

But my argument is hinged on why a person by committing evil, and sending a person into non-existence, will claim to have alleviated his pains even though he is not alive to experience it.

Read my response to logicboy.

you are introducing a false dichotomy. it is not a case of pain or pleasure. there is pain, no pain, and then pleasure. a dead man experiences nothing, that is, no pain. that is the aim, no pain. definitely better than pain to me

Just as real as it sounds, he is allowed to die. The words are simple, I need not explain anything.

i'm afraid you do not fully grasp the question. a brain dead man IS on life support, which takes a lot of money to maintain. 'allowing' him to die means turning off his life support...

macof: @Wiegraf, I am surprised u don't know that everything is conscious including Matter.

This shows how ur atheism is a fake, because ur master scientists bosses know this

everything we see is matter. is everything conscious?

@bold, why do you continue in this folly?

FOLYKAZE:

the priest. Considering what Ifa stated in relation with your Ori.

what ifa said? pls explain more...

for example, if you say all these are just abstract energies what then does killing a goat do for the 'energies'? pls don't tell me it is humans that eat it. we know that already...my question is, why kill a goat for, say, gravity/thunder/lightning? is there a non-mumbo jumbo explanation as to how sacrificing anything to an abstract energy is useful?

lol. I heard alot bro.

But I have seen stunts live in a movie production group. A guy was burnt....and his skin was not touched. Note, this could be trick but it amazing and there is no jupiter like that can tell me to play with fire.

@bold, bros this is no way magical or spiritual or anything. there are solvents you can rub on your body etc anyway, that is beside the point...

hello Josh, I thought we had been finally relieved of your nonsense.

JMAN05:

Read above, and update.

oh! mysteriousnesesssesss. cool

texanomaly:

What did i do now?

You are easy to scare!

@Reyginus, you don't want to explicitly say it but I have a feeling that your whole argument is hinged on the fact that maybe a miracle could happen if only we could just hold on for longer.

like LB said, the options are Painful long drawn death and quick painless death...no option of 'running away from zombies' or 'mimicking their steps to stay alive'.

Reyginus: If they cannot afford it, he should be allowed to die.

this is what you answered. what do you think is being done when a brain dead man is 'allowed' to die?

texanomaly: hello Mr Troll

macof:

When u go to a Babalawo he would dafa for u and Ifa's message would read in symbolic representation, it is the Babalawo that would interpret for u.

how convenient!

macof:

Have u wondered why natural disasters don't happen around pure spiritual practices?

pure what? like where? btw, have you heard of tectonic plates? volcanic mountains?

Yes science stated that- that's how flawed it can be, so by trying to say wat science hasn't proven is Bs means that years ago when Heart was established as the centre of emotions, anybody running around claiming Brain was just saying Bs

care to show proof for this?

macof:
The priest, who knows the mysteries behind these Energies and how they can be manipulated to Human benefit.

Nourishing an Energy with blood-which has the Highest level of energy in one physical entity.
This Nourishing is to create channels between these energies that could start up convertion to something else or just keep a certain Element in balance with it's atomic structure.

For instance
Sacrifice to Orisha oke prevents landslides, Avalanche and other disasters caused by Mountains

Orisha Olokun prevents floods and raise in sea level over the inhabited land.




I couple of years ago human physiology stated emotions were stored in the heart now we all believe it's the brain.

@bold, hehehehehehe. bros, I don tire abeg. at least pagans no de disturb us for night with loud speakers in the name of night vigil.

@red, huh? human physiology said that? there's a difference between generally accepted bullshit of old and actual scientific assertions o! think again.

rationalmind:

Erm... Since you appear to be in the medical line, what's the name of the drug given to patients for euthanasia?

Or is it classified information?

Otapiapia.

macof:

Then I would say u are not exposed

lol, ok.

macof:

Pls stop giving useless excuses.

The Bible creation story is incomplete and NO CHRISTIAN WOULD AGREE WITH YOUR DELIBERATE TWIST OF THE BIBLE

This is not about creativity, I only interpret not create.

nnofaith: The method of worship of all this orisas are not the same the differ from one orisa to another, take ogun for instance the mode of worship is for a black dog to be beheaded at the shrine, i beg weting "energy" wan carry dog blood do?!
The typicall yoruba society was organised along cult lines each family has it personal orisa cult the family belongs to, you can easily know a family's cult from the family name, if a family worships ogun for instance the family name has ogun prefixed to the family members name like ogunmola, you have ifakolade, osunbiyi etc. and every family has a family shrine.
what follykaze is trying to do is trying to marry yoruba myths with science, he has cherry picked a lot of stuff to marry the yoruba myth with science. just imagine christians waking up one and saying yahweh is energy?!

well, if all Yoruba ifa adherents will agree with him don't you think it be beneficial?

no need killing each other over what Yahweh Sango wants and does not want

FOLYKAZE:

Evening bro. Actually i dont know about the supernatural claim christians are making on behalf of their pastors. But I know one thing as a spiritual atheist that most of what we called supernatural are what we dont really have explanation for....either logical or scientifical parallel and are attributed to Spirits or Gods.

When you take it from a pantheist angle, spirit or God is an energy. Lets assume we have an explanation for this supernatural phenomena, it will become a norm and add up to knowledge. Like I tried to explain bullet proof Jazz, I used electromagnetic possibilities. Truely if this magnetic force can be detected on this charm, dont you think we can modernize it after critical or scientifical explanation have been deduced. Herbs and local medicine is an example here.



1. Worship mean different things to different people. Why are we worshipping our country, money and scientifical theories?

2. Incantation works perfectly. Have you heard about sound therapy? There is this neurolinguistic programmes.... They are sound used to control the brain mechanically. Song make a child sleep....you know? If this is well practicalized and mastered, dont you think incantation can work too? This is mere sound energy which can be transformed to anything.

Incense, music, other aids in spiritulity are aromatherapy, sound, etc-- all known scientifically to stimulate different parts of the brain.

Incantation or Spell in spirituality is neurolinguistic programming in science. (this is explanable bound of science from spirituality)

Herbs/brews/potions in spirituality are herbs, which biochemically act on the brain to produce and achieve the desired effects or heal ailments.

Energy manipulation is the main door post of spiritual acts when science said everything is made of energy on an atomic level; including thoughts and mind.

If people can do these when there was no logical explanation and critical analysis provided to their points, why cant we lodge in our scientifical knowledge into it rather than looking for already-made west fantasy?

good explanations.

3. Sacrifice to the best I know are nourishment for both the spirits (energies) and we human. We eat meat sacrificied right? The blood is an energy and contain lot of elements....this can have effect on our natural environment when they relates.

who asks for the sacrifices to be made?

Calm down. Personally I didn't claim anywhere that I saw someone breathing fire. I even said I dont the claim because I haven't witnessed it. But that doesn't make this false. Have you moved to confirm this?

i'm sure you must have heard of such claims na.

@bold, a basic knowledge in human physiology will make you know that such feats are physically impossible. that is why we don't need to run to every magic demonstration in other to debunk them.

FOLYKAZE:

I give up.

Try to understand this. I respect and so much love your perspective on this argument. You right on some points and I cant agree on some points too.

I believe people should help patient from taking euthanasia as next option. We should build up on pain management and others.

Nice to have you around for this. Catch ya another time. Cheers

ok. cheers.
note though, euthanasia is never an easy decision to undertake. sometimes we all want to have hope that somehow somewhere a miracle cure will come, just in time, if we just hold on for longer. but the reality is that some illnesses are incurable and as such the best possible way is to make sure the patient dies as painlessly as possible.

frank3.16:


Very convincing, since u don't know, I now understand why u strongly believe, now I believe

macof:

So wat if I say "people don't go into space. It's impossible"

pls don't try to justify mental slavery.
a man who is quick to accept western views and dismiss his ancestry is nothing but a slave

do you know anything about the laws of nature at all?

there is nothing western about scientific views. in your desperate attempt not to appear like a slave, you actually come across as foolish, irrational and dogmatic. I dismiss bullshit irrespective of origin. why should I hold unto bullshit just because it is local?

dragons don't exist, donkeys don't talk to humans, people don't breathe fire nor spit thunder. bullshit remains bullshit no matter how dressed up you try to make yours.

FOLYKAZE:

how?

do you understand why in Christianity there are tithers and non-tithers? Trinitarians and Unitarians? hell fire and no hell fire proponents? all using one bible?

and finally Obadiah777?

macof:

Goes to show how slave minded u are.

People like You are willing to accept that their origin is Mecca when Oral history clearly states Ile-Ife

let me stop this nonsense right here. just because it was said by my ancestors doesn't in anyway make it true. there is nothing slave minded about accepting scientifically verified findings even when they contradict previously held beliefs or when they are different from your ancestral history.

people don't breathe fire. it is impossible. so even if the most respected ifa adherent with the best memory says it, I will not believe it. simple and short.

FOLYKAZE:

You know what is what. The only thing you looking for is a old monster called Obatala who got drunk. You want this for mockery.



Yes.... Eledumare is the cosmic singularity where the universe is birthed through massive explosion.

Obatala is the light particle that caused the explosion and which spread. The drunk state mean the cooling state of light particle.

Oduduwa is the womb of creation. The dark energy which produces the atom and compounds. It is said that it continued the task of Obatala when the later was drunk...cooled.

^^^does the above related with modern theory. Big bang?

Ogun is Iron leading the other Orisa into planet earth. Science said the outer and inner crust made up of Iron.

Yemoja is the icy comet that bombarded the earth. Yoruba people said she fell when she was running...and her belly gushed out water....from there vegetation and life came out. Modern Science said water on earth was as a result of icy comets that fell on earth. And this produces the life.

We were told Orisas climbed down on a chain in the water body....that is symbol which mean chain equates to dna and life sprang out of water body.

^^^does that sound like a primordial soup?


African man will accept anything of foreign even when they have the exact at home. This is inferior complexity on you.

Now tell me the philosophical state is only in my mind. You are embarrassing.

nothing person no go see for nairaland.

when you can claim something is a metaphor then everybody will have a private interpretation of it.

Reyginus: Hmm. This is getting interesting. Can any good profession be for and against itself?

As in, can something like a good buying and selling be something entirely different from a good buying and selling?

did you glean this your conclusion from my post?

But you cannot be speaking of reducing suffering when the life whose suffering you are trying to reduce is no longer in existence.

Imagine that you were asked to reduce the rusting in a mechanical engine. After some effort you came out defeated. The only option left was to discard it. Which you did.

Have you reduced the rust in any way?

your analogy is flawed. a better analogy is this... imagine that the rusted engine has no possible means of reducing the rust and in so far as the rust is in the engine, it won't work. what would be the best solution? keep it for sentimental purposes?

the suffering being reduced here is not only of the patient but also of the immediate family members.

imagine a medical case where the patient is brain dead and it takes about $2000 per day to keep the patient alive. what do you suggest the family do in such a case?

FOLYKAZE:

Try to understand me Mr. I agreed with you if the patient give this condition. But since euthanasia is employed to escape pains and suffering, we should firstly check if the person is psychologically balance. Reason for this is that no rational person at any point wants to die. Human are built with the instinct to fit and survive. If it psychological imbalance problem, we can help balancing that.

And in the case when the pain is unbearable, the option should not be death. That was the reason I said we should work for greater education in pain management.

of course we should aim for better health practice in general but the reality on ground is that we are not there yet. now, what do you suggest in a case where the pain is unbearable in a terminally ill patient?

And lastly when the patient cant make decision, you have no right to do for... Death is irreversable. What if the patient is not considering euthanasia?


And in this sense the family should kill others around because they cant cater for them?

here we go again. we are talking about a TERMINALLY ILL person! the patient is sick. there is no available treatment for him. he is going to die soon but meanwhile, it is taking considerable emotional and financial cost to keep the patient alive, not because they are waiting for treatment but just because they can't bear to see the person die. this exerts considerable toll on the emotional and financial capacity of the surviving relatives while at the time, the patient is in excruciating physical pain while waiting to die. what exactly is your best option?

You ignored the life insurance gain and inheritance case where people can hide behind euthanasia to terminate others.

Why do you think those sentence to death are protected from taking their life themselves? Afterall they will still die.

What if there is cure tomorrow?

tomorrow as in, the next day...or future indefinite time?

I find all this interesting, though I don't believe all of it. what I usually have against all this is when pagans or anybody for that matter start making claims of fantastic 'supernatural' manifestations by one babalawo or pastor.

you say Sango is not actually a being, so why do people worship it/him/she? why make incantations to invoke its supposed powers? why make sacrifices to a metaphor or an abstract concept?

stories of people breathing fire? really? spitting thunder? Nigger please!