₦airaland Forum

WildOne:
All I fathom from the above is blah, blah, blah, blah. Exactly what are you yakking about?

Have you read the article?

Nezan:
All your responses are becoming more and more duh. . . I will respond when you make a reasonable explanation on why a fatwa, placed on Salman by Ayatollah, which you claim acted stupidly, was validated in all islamic countries. If Ayatollah acted stupidly, why did all the other islamic rulers support him, eh? It goes a long way to show how muslims are desparate to cover up the satanic verses saga, even discrediting write-ups related to it.

Okay. Got you.

Tell me, with proof, of these countries.

Ayatollah is a human. And so am I. How should I justify someone's action? Is he I or am I him?

Nezan:
As per abrogation, we Christians never believe in abrogation, when Jesus came, He did not abrogate Mosaic laws, but merely summarised them up. So much for abrogation. . . . . .God changing His mind? Never!

You claim that?

Promise me what would you do if I prove abrogation in the Bible? Where clearly Jesus's law abrogated that of Moses?

Awaiting your reply. . .for am leaving in a moment. Thanks

Nezan:
So 12 for mohammed and 4 for other muslims? But he married about 30 in his life time.

There's a difference in doing what the Prophet did and what he told us to do. There were certain commands from Allah that only he had to do.

For more example, the other one which I can think of now is Qiyaam Al-Layl (The Prayer during the 3rd half of the Night). Prophet Muhammad was obliged to offer it every night but for his Ummah it is not an obligation but a Sunnah. And we don't have to offer it every night.

I mean this OP is about a wife leaving Islam. . .right?

Thus I say open a fresh on that issue. Period.

I've been waiting for your response for an hour, Nezan. And you are still online--even making replies to other threads.

Greetings,

This section is not probably the right for stuff like this. But something made me to unavoidably bring fourth this issue seeing how some ignorant non-Muslims are enthusiastically and eagerly opening myriad threads relating such a topic.

Personally, ain't making any trial to depend that Arab guys' actions. Yet the whole issue remains difficult for the non-Muslims who foolishly and naively think it were only Muslims who feel the bitterness guarantee by the so-called "freedom of speech" law in Europe and America.

We can glaringly clear see the biasedness and shamelessness of those campaigning for that thing.

Any comment?

Thanks

A fresh thread may be more appropriate for such a subject, Nezan. Thanks

Dutch to prosecute Arabs over Holocaust cartoon

By TOBY STERLING (AP) – 2 days ago

AMSTERDAM — Dutch prosecutors said Wednesday they will charge an Arab cultural group under hate speech laws for publishing a cartoon that suggests the death of 6 million Jews during World War II is a fabrication.

The public prosecutor's office in the city of Utrecht said the cartoon insults Jews as a group and is therefore an illegal form of discrimination.

Prosecutors plan to press charges for "insulting a group and distributing an insulting image."

Spokeswoman Mary Hallebeek said the maximum punishment is a year in jail, but a fine of up to euro4,700 ($6,700) is more likely, given that the charges are against the group.

The Dutch arm of the Arab European League said it doesn't deny the reality of the Holocaust, but published the cartoon on its Web site as an "act of civil disobedience" to highlight a double standard.

AEL chairman Abdoulmouthalib Bouzerda argued that prosecutors had not pressed charges against Dutch lawmaker Geert Wilders for his film that included cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad.

Charges against Wilders, who campaigns on an anti-Islam and anti-immigration platform, were dismissed after prosecutors said his insults were aimed at Muhammad, not all Muslims, and were not systematic.

The charges against the AEL "illustrates what Muslims have been saying for decades," Bouzerda said in a response published on the league's Web site. "Freedom of expression is only a pretext to make life bitter for Muslims , and if (they) try to bring this hypocrisy to light, that right is denied them."

Bouzerda said anyone should be allowed to publish insulting material in the interest of public debate.

The cartoon shows two apparently Jewish men standing near a pile of skeletons with a sign that says "Auswitch," presumably representing the largest Nazi concentration camp, Auschwitz.

One pokes a bone with a stick and says "I don't think they're Jews" and the other answers, "We have to get to the six million somehow."

Ronny Naftaniel of the Center for Documentation on Israel, which filed a complaint against the cartoon, said Jews had nothing to do with the Muhammad cartoons, so it didn't make sense for the league to retaliate in this way.

"Imagine if Dutch Jews insulted Muslims every time they heard an anti-Semitic remark. What kind of perverse world would we be living in?" he said.

After a strong immigration wave in the 1990s, Muslims make up around 6 percent of the 16.5 million Dutch population.

A popular backlash against immigration has dominated politics here since 2001, and it intensified in 2004, when filmmaker Theo van Gogh was murdered by a Muslim radical over perceived religious insults.

That further fueled debate over immigrant crime and the need to preserve traditional Dutch values.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ghpgjpRnt2PNCpbU_8N6rI1nSJJQD9AF53S81

Nezan:
The impression I wanted to correct was that, just as we have different versions of the Bible, the same goes for the koran, no need over flogging this issue.

This is far from truth, Nezan. And am sure you know that.

Dutch to prosecute Arabs over Holocaust cartoon

By TOBY STERLING (AP) – 2 days ago

AMSTERDAM — Dutch prosecutors said Wednesday they will charge an Arab cultural group under hate speech laws for publishing a cartoon that suggests the death of 6 million Jews during World War II is a fabrication.

The public prosecutor's office in the city of Utrecht said the cartoon insults Jews as a group and is therefore an illegal form of discrimination.

Prosecutors plan to press charges for "insulting a group and distributing an insulting image."

Spokeswoman Mary Hallebeek said the maximum punishment is a year in jail, but a fine of up to euro4,700 ($6,700) is more likely, given that the charges are against the group.

The Dutch arm of the Arab European League said it doesn't deny the reality of the Holocaust, but published the cartoon on its Web site as an "act of civil disobedience" to highlight a double standard.

AEL chairman Abdoulmouthalib Bouzerda argued that prosecutors had not pressed charges against Dutch lawmaker Geert Wilders for his film that included cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad.

Charges against Wilders, who campaigns on an anti-Islam and anti-immigration platform, were dismissed after prosecutors said his insults were aimed at Muhammad, not all Muslims, and were not systematic.

The charges against the AEL "illustrates what Muslims have been saying for decades," Bouzerda said in a response published on the league's Web site. "Freedom of expression is only a pretext to make life bitter for Muslims , and if (they) try to bring this hypocrisy to light, that right is denied them."

Bouzerda said anyone should be allowed to publish insulting material in the interest of public debate.

The cartoon shows two apparently Jewish men standing near a pile of skeletons with a sign that says "Auswitch," presumably representing the largest Nazi concentration camp, Auschwitz.

One pokes a bone with a stick and says "I don't think they're Jews" and the other answers, "We have to get to the six million somehow."

Ronny Naftaniel of the Center for Documentation on Israel, which filed a complaint against the cartoon, said Jews had nothing to do with the Muhammad cartoons, so it didn't make sense for the league to retaliate in this way.

"Imagine if Dutch Jews insulted Muslims every time they heard an anti-Semitic remark. What kind of perverse world would we be living in?" he said.

After a strong immigration wave in the 1990s, Muslims make up around 6 percent of the 16.5 million Dutch population.

A popular backlash against immigration has dominated politics here since 2001, and it intensified in 2004, when filmmaker Theo van Gogh was murdered by a Muslim radical over perceived religious insults.

That further fueled debate over immigrant crime and the need to preserve traditional Dutch values.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ghpgjpRnt2PNCpbU_8N6rI1nSJJQD9AF53S81

You can say that again.

Nezan:
Who reported them to be unreliable?

Some unreliable bunch of people, of course!

Can you tell me more about islamic writings that were later reported to be unreliable?

Writing depends. Which sort do you mean?

Let look at this very scenario: had the "Satanic" verses existed, it must have been reported in authentic ahadeeth, or even unauthentic ones. But no record of any hadeeth report!

Do you see how funny you people are? Koranic verses that seem to potray your religion in bad light are later abrogated (may be allah changes his mind after revealing them) and all reference writings to the abrogated verses are later claimed to be unreliable.

It's not so. Not at all.

And the issue of abrogation is nothing new in God's scriptures. There is it in the Bible both OT and NT. You probably don't know thats why you are making such an aimless fuss!

You have not told me why the fatwa on Rushdie was celebrated in the muslim world if the satanic verses saga was a ruse.

Have actually said a lot on that. And you know!

:d

Assalamu alaikum,
[center]
It has been narrated on the authority of 'Abdullah b. 'Umar that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Behold! the Dispensers of justice will be seated on the pulpits of light beside God, on the right side of the Merciful, Exalted and GlorioUS. Either side of the Being is the right side both being equally mrneritorious. (The Dispensers of justice are) those who do justice in their rules, in matters relating to their families and in all that they undertake to do.


Muslim :: Book 20 : Hadith 4493[/center]

LOL

Noetic here and there. No time to comment. Later inshaAllah. . .

Well, you don't have answers to the other questions, huh? Lets carry on. . .

Nezan:
Then why did al-Tabari and ibn-Sa'id refer to them?

They are reported to them from a very unreliable, soundless and worth discarding sources.

Remember, the verses are never reported in any Hadeeth. It's his book of Tareekh, i.e. history book, that ever reported it. And he further made a "disclaimer" that he should not be held account for any false account; he faithfully transmitted what he got.

Many Islamic exegeses, historian, Qur'an commentators and the likes of reliable stand fourth-with threw his poor quality account. While non-Muslims started dancing, for they got "one chance" to defame, dent, and ridicule Islam and Muslims.

Please get that, Nezan. I'll provide for your reading and others a well-written piece on the unreliability, unacceptability and the likes of At-Tabari's book, composing great Islamic exegeses sayings on the book as well as the author. Thanks

noetic2:
skyone . . . .I am cool. . .hope u are doing well too.

I am not suprised as to the level of illiteracy induced ignorance being spinned out by the mohammedans on several threads. . .it all cracks me up.
keep up the good work though. . .hopefully I can restore my laptop backup soon.  

Go back and reread the the thread replies. Judge fairly who is being advertising his ignorance.

Funny.

P:S

Abrogation in God's scriptures is nothing new. And He is above being questioned over all His deeds.

Don't miscalculate me, ain't saying these verses are ever abrogated, for they never existed.

Any way, let me debunk these two replies as usual:

Nezan:
are you denying? unless you want to tell us that islamic writers now depend on Christians to transmit their writings.

I say bring forth their names. And they don't.

Tell me who coined the term "Satanic verses"? You know this is English, not Arabic. Right?

Nezan:
you mean the abrogated suras? the ones allah revealed after he changed his mind on his daughters?

Refer to Qur'an chapter 112. This terrifyingly untrue. Period!

Quit playing such a game with me, Nezan. At a risk of sounding pompous, I would say my intelligence is far beyond that. And you know!

I asked you myriad questions and you deceptively skip to answer them. Yet you changed from answering to asking me some more questions.  You more over refuse to, apparently, recant your earlier assertion that ahadeeth report the incident. Thereupon after finishing your copy and paste forte action, you still fail.

Simply answer my questions directly.

LOL

Naija and propaganda.

MrCrackles:
hahahahaha. . . .

Let me join you. . .

ahonohai:
Bush boy! Let's wait till Christmas and you'll be claiming the infidels have taken over Lagos

Abuzola described what he saw and further said what he foresees. What then is wrong in doing that? Please think before replying.

I kinda feel disappointed.

ahonohai:
@ May Kelly

I love you, but I think that you need to sort yourself out.

Abuzola I get but you? Strange

Two days, man. Where have you been to?

Missed you.

Nezan:
I believe mohammed wrote this nonsense when he was possessed by one of the demons that made him forget he was having sex with his wives while he was not.

Please, Nezan I don't like to hear you talking in such a wretched manner. We are all here for no reason other than understanding one another. Next time consign the abuse into trash. Thanks

Nezan:
If I can fast without eating for a full day, what makes you think I will not be able to take a heavy early breakfast and a heavy late dinner?

Humans vary. If you think you can do that, most probably one can't. Period.

Nezan:
Does that make you a better muslim than those that eats heavy early breakfast and heavy late dinner?

I know all muslims are afraid of spiritual discourse.

I don't think he said so to mean so.

And what spiritual discourse? You folks are afraid of all discourse, for you barely depend your claim within reasonable circle.

Nezan:
Just as mohammed copied it from Jesus and reduced it to eating heavy breakfast and heavy late dinner?

Muhammad and Jesus, may Allah exalt their mention, are both prophets sent by Allah, the Exalted. Thus what's there if they shared certain practice? Didn't they both preached monotheist, for example?

Nezan:
Just like contemporaries of mohammed edited the koran and abrogated some verses like the satanic verses?what of the different versions of the koran? you can only play those mindgames on people who dont know about islam and muslims.

Hmm. You ran away while we were discussing on the authenticity or unauthenticity of "Satanic" verses in the Qur'an. Why are you then claiming there are those verses? Please don't behave like a small kid, man.

NB:
This discussion is categorically off-topic. If you feel like discussing any of these you can start a fresh thread; there you'll be attended too, inshaAllah. Thanks

You guys: Sleek29 and Nezan, did a little search on my profile, I think.

Tomorrow, inshaAllah.

Read the alleged verses (the claimed one excluded, though):


Verse 11 : The (Prophet's) (mind and) heart in no way falsified that which he saw.

verse 19 : Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza,
Verse 20 : And another, the third (goddess), Manat?
Verse 21 : What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female?

Verse 22 : Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!
Verse 23 : These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!

No one in their Right minds is going to bang on about any such ideas after reading this sura,

What supports the whole saga even there?

Don't think. Let her say it herself, man.

Nezan:
You are a funny fellow, the next minute you discredit al-Tabari and the next minute you quote him? funny dude.

Can't you understand simple thing? Sorry if that hurts. Unintended, wallahi.

I mean thats what he said in his book. Am not backing my points with his words in whatsoever way.

Re-read it justly, fairly. Do that. Thanks

Nezan:
who passed the satanic verses saga to them? was it not acquintances of mohammed?

Yeah. If they were, tell us their names. Only names are OK. I know everyone can make a little search.

Nezan:
Tabari and Ibn Sa’d wrote that Sura 17:73-75 was revealed about the time of the Satanic verses. Muslims even have a special term for the whisperings of Satan, roughly pronounced "wiswas".

And on what page did he say this?

Even if he did, other books that surpased his in authenticity say otherwise. Got them with me.

Quick. Thanks