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Christianity Etc › Re: I Should Speak In Tongues, Right? by MuttleyLaff: 7:19pm On May 24, 2020*

Myer:
Your explanation though.
I don't think there's a way to expain it away.
It was a faux pas.

If by "... It was a faux pas ..." you mean Acts 9:7 and Acts 22:9, then brother, with all due respect and humility I demur.

I am, at all front, currently preoccupied, doing a lot of chasing & catching things up, here and there, so can't right now, begin to start explaining how Acts 9:7 and Acts 22:9 doesnt have any contradictions and inconsistencies between them

Myer:
There are other contradictory verses and inconsistencies too but there's no need going that route today.

"For God, is not a God of confusion ..."
- 1 Corinthians 14:33a

Atheist brothers/sisters like to spin this line, when trying to knock, dismiss or belittle the Bible, lmao, but the word of God is bigger than them. It is only inexperienced believers who succumb to such incredulous misconceptions. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying the Bible hasn't got bad/wrong/incorrect mistranslations, dubious insertions and/or omissions et cetera. No, those are calculated and/or deliberate works of flesh, but the Bible as spiritually inspired from on high, to put on paper, has no contradictions and inconsistencies. Yes I am aware the Vulgate, the late 4th century Latin translation of the Bible was once jokingly referred to as the Vulgar because of loadsa copyists' errors

Every other pseudo contradictory verses and inconsistencies (i.e."... It was a faux pas ...''), from describing them in more detail and/or revealing related relevant facts, all easily becomes clear, as nothing other than false positive contradictions and inconsistencies.

I see you, keep saying "There's too much contradictions and inconsistencies in the bible" because you are unable to unravel what seems to look as if they are "too much contradictions and inconsistencies" when really they aren't

God, is not the author of confusion. Glory be to God in the highest. Amen.

Christianity Etc › Re: I Should Speak In Tongues, Right? by MuttleyLaff: 6:09pm On May 24, 2020

Myer:
Lol you want to start another argument altogether.

This only goes back to prove that the bible is full of contradictions and inconsistencies.

Guess we'll never know which is true between Acts 9:7 and Acts 22:9.

It trips up, a lot, quite a few of our Muslim and Atheist brothers/sisters and it leaves me laughing very hard. On the face of it, they appear contradictory and so you find some argumentative Muslim and Atheist brothers/sisters come up waving those two verses about crying blue murder, that they are inconsistencies, when they aren't, lmao. Doing a thorough or detailed review of the verses would have saved them from slipping on that banana skin.

The construct used in the two verses, we also often use it too, when conversing in Yoruba.

Case in point 1:
"Ẹ ku irọle, sir". Though you heard me, but you, pretending not to have heard, prolly from still nursing an earlier vex, will respond "Mi o gbọ ẹ"

Loosely translated means:
"Good evening, sir". Though you heard me, but you, pretending not to have heard, prolly from still nursing an earlier vex, will respond "I don't hear you"

Case in point 2:
"Good evening, sir". Though you loud and clearly heard me, but since you don't understand nor speak English, will in Yoruba, honestly and truthfully say "Mi o gbọ ẹ" ( i.e. ''I don't understand you'')

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Christianity Etc › Re: I Should Speak In Tongues, Right? by MuttleyLaff: 12:06pm On May 24, 2020*

Acehart:
Okay. Give me a few hours. I’ll just read now and meditate on it.

I am just trying with those two verses that seemingly appear contradictory show how the absence of correct understanding could easily make some misinterpret the narrative(s).

We won't go into what language, it was Apostle Paul heard spoke to him. If heavenly language or not, lmao grin

Just them two verses, that even trips up a lot, quite a few of our Muslim and Atheist brothers/sisters

PS: Thank you Myer, for showing that strawmanning expert and delusional racist's assistant, filling in for the absent head honcho pepper.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: I Should Speak In Tongues, Right? by MuttleyLaff: 11:25am On May 24, 2020*

Myer:
Why is it difficult for you and hoopernikao to accept that there were 2 different forms of tongues manifested in the scriptures? Distinctly mentioned in 1 Corinthians 13:1.

I am sure you studied English grammar, in at least secondary school during English language lessons, from where your English teacher would have introduced you to Conditional Particle Or Conjunction.

Now Greek speaking people, follow a similar principle when communicating in Greek. You are imposing your English understanding of conditional upon an opposing Greek way of understanding conditionals. Go read up on it because the NT originally want written in English, it rather was in Greek, so this means the rules in Greek grammar applies, not the rules in English language grammar.

Myer:
One which was human language (tongues of men) that could be understood by bystanders in their various dialects. Acts 2:6-12

You're trying so very hard to make fetch happen. For what purpose, to what end? For a gift that the lowest of the lowest on the hierarchy ladder

Myer:
And the second (tongues of angels) which no one understands except by the inspiration of the gift of interpretation? 1 Corinthians 14:2

I have said enough on this verse et al, I just right now, aren't anymore bothered. Whatever floats anyone's boat.

You knew answering my asked questions, will find you out, that's is why you stepped them over, not bothered to reply to them

Christianity Etc › Re: I Should Speak In Tongues, Right? by MuttleyLaff: 11:06am On May 24, 2020*

pressplay411:
That is just an opinion, which is contradicted by other opinions in the commentary.
He claimed Angels made inaudible sounds, how then do we explain angels sing Holy Holy in heaven?
How them does Angel Gabriel deliver good tidings?

Another opinion in the commentary below contradicts that position and seems more plausible as it agrees with other scriptures.

i. In Paul’s day, many Jews believed angels had their own language, and by the Spirit, one could speak it. The reference to tongues of… angels shows that though the genuine gift of tongues is a legitimate language, it may not be a “living” human language, or may not be a human language at all. Apparently, there are angelic languages men can speak by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Acehart:
Hi, I just want to take a cue from Habakkuk 2:20 to say a contradiction may not exist.

"But the Lord is in His holy temple. Let all the earth be silent before Him." (Habakkuk 2:20)

In the vision of Isaiah (when he say the Lord enter into the heavenly temple), he saw the seraphims cover their faces and feet. One writer wrote: They covered their faces because they didn’t find themselves worthy to gaze upon the glory of God; they covered their feet because they didn’t find themselves worthy to stand before the presence of God. In covering their faces, they covered their mouths with their massive wings that even spoken words would be inaudible. If as we pray: thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven, then as Habakkuk speaks of silence of the whole earth as the Lord enters His temple, so it is in heaven, right? Then how did the seraphims cry, Holy, Holy, Holy! until the frames of the door posts trembled? We may not know all about the power of angels but we know that they were purpose-built for their heavenly environment; didn’t Jesus say that they have no need for procreation?

We know they spoke to men in uncovered faces. Men understood them when understanding was made in man’s language. We see that when the voice from heaven said: “I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again”, some people said it thundered while some said an angel spoke. In what language did the “angel” utter those words?

"¹Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the disciples of the Lord. He approached the high priest
²and requested letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any men or women belonging to the Way, he could bring them as prisoners to Jerusalem.
³As Saul drew near to Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him.
⁴He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?”
⁵“Who are You, Lord?” Saul asked.
“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” He replied.
⁶“Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
⁷The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless. They heard the voice but did not see anyone"
- Acts 9:1-7

"¹Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you.
²(And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,)
³I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.
⁴And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.
⁵As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.
⁶And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.
⁷And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
⁸And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.
⁹And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of Him that spake to me."
- Acts 22:1-9

Let's jazz up the conversation a little with Acts 9:7 and Acts 22:9

Christianity Etc › Re: I Should Speak In Tongues, Right? by MuttleyLaff: 10:06am On May 24, 2020*

Goshen360:
Let me or us pick two things from the above:

1. If tongues in Acts is what Paul explained, please help us understand 1 cor 14v2

For if you have the ability to speak in tongues, you will be talking only to God, since people won’t be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious.

Here, the speaker is ONLY talking to God because people doesn't understand him

But in Acts 2:

The speakers was speaking to men NOT to God and people understood the speakers.

Tongue, an organ of speech, is a member of the body of a human being, not celestial beings and also is the language or dialect used by a particular people distinct from that of other people, so again my dear brother Goshen360, that is the kind of language or tongue, what Paul was talking about in 1 Corinthians 14:2

Think about it Goshen360, if I speak in a tongue, no one understands, then in the absence of interpretation, no one will understand me. It's just me who will understand all I had to say. Even if I do it in private prayers, like for example, recite it in a foreign language I don't know or understand but can recite by sheer pronouncing the seen words as much as I possibly can, then my spirit prays, but my intellect and mind has no understanding and clue of what I've said and/or recite. I know in my spirit that its a good or well wishing prayer, but intellectually pfft, I won't be able to tell you what its all about

Another important thing about 1 Corinthians 14:2, is that, "unknown" was never in the original Greek verse. It is a latter addition by translators, just as I had earlier mentioned on page 6 of this thread, if not even earlier than there

Watch this, for the sake of this discussion and hypothetically speaking, say Goshen360, you, Acehart, Myer, Finallydead and I, are in a gathering comprising of like minded people with Igbo, Yoruba, Fulani, Hausa, Edo etcetera language speaking backgrounds, who dont speak nor understand each other's languages (i.e. each others Igbo, Yoruba, Fulani, Hausa, Edo language is unknown to the other), the only common language each understands is English, now when it is time to pray, teach or preach, which language in the absence of interpretation or someone to interpret into each of Igbo, Yoruba, Fulani, Hausa, Edo, will you speak, pray, teach or preach in?
What language please?. If its you only who understands speaking in Yoruba and you get up to eloquently speak in Yoruba, who is benefited there? Apart from you, who understood all you said in the Yoruba language? You and who?

1 Corinthians 14:2, is telling you that, in the above setting I've mentioned, if you speak languages that others don't know, God will understand what you are saying, though no one else will know what you mean. You will be talking about mysteries that only the Spirit understands. The others will just be second guessing all you've said

Goshen360:
2. If Peter explained Acts 2 as prophecies and interpretations, doesn't that suggest signs and wonders (miracle)? Because how do you explain that someone a language that wasn't learned and others who owns such languages can clearly understand the speakers. Or better still, explain what you mean by Peter explained Acts 2 as prophecy and interpretation?

If Paul, not if Peter.
"Oje lọbọ oju ẹ, pẹlu omi, lmao", loosely translated literally means "make do, go rinse you face with water"

1/ Do you at all understand what's the meaning of the "lost sheep of Israel" phrase Jesus was throwing about?
2/ Do you know anything about what's called the "lost Ten Tribes" and what that is all about?
3/ Do understand what is required, expected and happen during the Passover festival at all?
4/ Do you understand why Acts 2 was done in the hearers' native languages?

Christianity Etc › Re: I Should Speak In Tongues, Right? by MuttleyLaff: 10:06am On May 24, 2020

pressplay411:
That is just an opinion, which is contradicted by other opinions in the commentary.
He claimed Angels made inaudible sounds, how then do we explain angels sing Holy Holy in heaven?
How them does Angel Gabriel deliver good tidings?

Another opinion in the commentary below contradicts that position and seems more plausible as it agrees with other scriptures.

i. In Paul’s day, many Jews believed angels had their own language, and by the Spirit, one could speak it. The reference to tongues of… angels shows that though the genuine gift of tongues is a legitimate language, it may not be a “living” human language, or may not be a human language at all. Apparently, there are angelic languages men can speak by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

When you talk in dreams or see angels in visions, do you or the angels talk with a physical organ tongue?
When you walk in dreams, are you walking physically, hmm?
The rich man that was begging father Abraham, to please get Lazarus to help him have water dropped on his tongue. Was he talking of a real tongue or was he communicating in Sheol there with real physical tongue, erhn?
Angels when permitted or authorised by God can make communication(s) audible

Christianity Etc › Re: I Should Speak In Tongues, Right? by MuttleyLaff: 9:01am On May 24, 2020

Truth has no agenda or preconceived ideas about something, you've already formed an opinion about it before you've had correct enough information and/or right understanding

Christianity Etc › Re: I Should Speak In Tongues, Right? by MuttleyLaff: 8:58am On May 24, 2020

pressplay411:
Bible Commentaries
Enduring Word.

1 Corinthians 13: 1-2

ii. Poole has a fascinating comment, suggesting that the tongues of… angels describes how God may speak to us in a non-verbal way:

“Angels have no tongues, nor make any articulate audible sounds, by which they understand one another; but yet there is certainly a society or intercourse among angels, which could not be upheld without some way amongst them to communicate their minds and wills to each other. How this is we cannot tell: some of the schoolmen say, it is by way of impression: that way God, indeed, communicates his mind sometimes to his people, making secret impressions of his will upon their minds and understandings.”

Gbam!

Christianity Etc › Re: Rome, Bantus And The Demon- White Jesus by MuttleyLaff: 8:55am On May 24, 2020

Electricboy:
A surprising number of people, do not understand that Museum Art, Movies, and Television, reflect what is called "Artistic license" (also known as dramatic license, historical license, poetic license, narrative license, licentia poetica, or simply license), it is a colloquial term, or euphemism, used to denote the distortion of fact. Using examples above: Modern Man evolved in Equatorial Africa, though the temperature there is perfect for unclothed Man (min. temp. 69 F - max. temp. 79 F): But it is also the place were the Suns UV intensity is at it's maximum (11): An unclothed White person in that environment, would Sunburn in less than 15 minutes, and die from Sunburn or Skin Cancer in short order - Nature gave Black Skin to natural Humans for a reason, it has a Function!

Beginning during the renaissance and even earlier, European artists took to depicting historical people, as they hoped or imagined them to look. And in doing so, they made everyone White, but that is not reality. In reality: as shown by REAL artifacts, ancient White Greeks, who originated in Central Asia: by the classical period, were mostly a mixed-race people, owing to admixture with the original Black Europeans they encountered when they arrived in Europe (circa 1,200 B.C.). Troy was an Anatolian City, REAL artifacts clearly show that Anatolians were Black people. Jesus was a Hebrew, REAL artifacts clearly show that Hebrews were Black people, same with Persians and Egyptians. But one special mention concerning the Egyptian image: that does not reflect "Artistic license" rather, that reflects a simple attempt to lie! Because in fact, it is the image of a real ruler of Egypt: a GREEK ruler of Egypt during the Ptolemaic period. Greek and Roman artifacts from their respective periods of occupation in Egypt, are routinely used, along with fake and re-worked artifacts of Egyptians and others too, by degenerate racists to portray them as REAL Egyptians, thus indicating that Egyptians, and other ancients, were White people. That is purposeful revisionist history - a lie!

eplanning:
Very intelligent submission... It's a deliberate attempt to lie! May God bless this awakening in Nigeria so we might escape the coming judgements.

MuttleyLaff:
Dont mind eplanning ojaare. He is filled of disgust at how seemingly hopeless the state of affairs are, with not so much of a glimmer of hope light inside the tunnel, so him and donnie need someone to point accusing fingers at as the cause of whatever woes is going on
They forget when to point a finger to someone three are pointing back at you and one pointing to where you are standing.

You'll find out that whoever controlled the presence then, rewrote the past, rewrote history lmao. History, is always written up by conquerors, by winners and victors anyday. C'est la vie, that's life.

MuttleyLaff:
You have Bible nah. Show me where in there, history allegedly has been rewritten. Don't you get tired of lying like a cheap flea market Persia prayer mat ni? Smh.

You think everyone is like you who goes on a copy and paste spree, all just to drive a black skinned face on the MESSIAH

I have red-skinned Isrealites. I have for David, during his coronation et cetera, but I am not going to present them yet, so mock as much as you like, just know I am going to have the last laugh and you know what that means, don't you, lmao.

It is only a fake arse Israelite, a wannabe BHI who wouldn't know, understand and recognise the Numbers 19:1-3 historical red heifer sacrifice, lmao

The Israelite shepherdess was that dark reddish brown skinned (i.e. upper end of the olive-skinned/reddish brown spectrum) she felt, she had to apologise to the other light reddish brown skinned women of Jerusalem for her darkness.

"⁵Dark am I, yet lovely, daughters of Jerusalem,
dark like the tents of Kedar, like the tent curtains of Solomon.
⁶Do not stare at me because I am dark, because I am darkened by the sun.
My mother’s sons were angry with me and made me take care of the vineyards;
my own vineyard I had to neglect."
- Song of Solomon 1:5-6

Let's talk of Madiba, aka, Nelson Mandela RIP. It will be incorrect to SPECIFICALLY describe him as being black in complexion because he wasn’t black in complexion, even though he was clearly a "black man". You'd right, if you say he was dark brown in colour or dark reddish brown in colour because either would be more SPECIFIC description for Nelson Mandela's complexion. The same goes for the MESSIAH, aka Jesus. The MESSIAH, IS NOT BLACK IN COLOUR, the MESSIAH aka Jesus, IS REDDISH BROWN IN COLOUR, with of course black skinned ancestry in HIM.

In Sahih al-Bukhari 3438 Book 60, Hadith 109, Musa pbuh, aka Moses or Moshe, the Hadith says he's has the same skin of Adam dark reddish brown and had long, limp, and straight hair (i.e. not kinked hair like Africans)

So what should I do with this info about Buddha not being spared. Haven't you heard that winners, victors and/or conquerors take it all ni, hmm? Smh.

donnie, it is necessary for you, as a duty and responsibility, to instead of indiscriminately be copy and paste photos, maps, dodge info, BHI revisionist materials et cetera to first understand the facts, the context and history accurately before going on a spreading orgy repeating regurgitates without analysing, examining or comprehending beforehand. Look at how you mixed up Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus with Leo Africanus, who have more than 1600 years gap apart between them, just like S400 confirmed.

You made matters worse, when even you said Africa was named after Scipio, when it was the other way round, as Scipio only added Africanus to his name on the back of the Roman senate naming the continent Africa, after the land they discovered on the opposite side of the Mediterranean occupied then by a Berber tribe living in the Carthage area (now modern-day Tunisia)

The Berber word "Afri," the origin of the word Africa, means cave and is referring to the Berber tribe, place of the cave-dwellers, so "Afrika" or "Afrika terra" meaning "land of the Afri'') Just on a sideline, "Ifri" the plural of Afri, is a Berber goddess, the goddess of fortune and fertility

Imagine, you are caught disseminating so much false information like about Scipio and this issue of a black-skinned Jesus, although we already know from day 1, that you've been and are lying all along, yet you still continue to lie, as if lying was going to go out of fashion. Now, the thing is, only God knows what else you've got wrong and misunderstood but you still are dishing out incorrect and inaccurate info, hmm? On top misleading and confusing others with them. Bad. You're being very naughty and bad for doing all this.

The one who furnishes people with falsehood, is, a speaking devil. The one who remains silent about the truth, is, a speechless devil. You have had a good run at spreading falsehoods, it is about time donnie, you give up, stop doing this blatant craziness lies, smh and pack everything away. This mad obsession of trying so hard to forcibly pin a black skinned face on the MESSIAH has become so so boring

Christianity Etc › Re: I Should Speak In Tongues, Right? by MuttleyLaff: 8:33am On May 24, 2020

Bible > Commentaries > 1 Corinthians 13:1
◄ 1 Corinthians 13:1 ►
"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels,
and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal."

EXPOSITORY (ENGLISH BIBLE)
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers

"Tongues of men and of angels"
—The gift of tongues (see Notes on 1 Corinthians 14) is placed first as that most over-estimated at Corinth. It is useless without love. It would be impossible to define love, as it is impossible to define life; but the best conception of what St. Paul means by love can be found from the description which he subsequently gave of it.

Benson Commentary
1 Corinthians 13:1-3. "Though, &c."

— The apostle having observed in the last verse of the preceding chapter, (with which this chapter is closely connected,) that he would show them a more excellent way, that is, a way more wise, holy, and useful, than that of striving to excel each other in miraculous gifts, now proceeds to do this, directing them to pursue the divine grace of love to God and man, as of the highest excellence, and of absolute necessity.

"Though I speak with the tongues of men and angels"
— That is, all the languages which are spoken upon earth, and with the eloquence of an angel; and have not charity (i.e. Αγαπην) love; namely, the love of God shed abroad in my heart by the Holy Ghost given to me, and the love of all mankind for his sake;
I am become — Γεγονα, I am, or have been, before God; as sounding brass
— No better than the sounding instruments of brass used in the worship of some of the heathen gods; or a tinkling cymbal
— This was made of two pieces of hollow brass, which being struck together made a tinkling, but with very little variety of sound.

Some have thought that the apostle mentions the tongues of angels, because in the patriarchal ages angels often spake with men. But as they then spake in the language of men, their tongues, thus understood, are the same with the tongues of men.

And therefore by the tongues of angels, the apostle doubtless meant the methods, whatever they are, by which angels communicate their thoughts to each other, and which must be a much more excellent language than any that is spoken by men.

Barnes' Notes on the Bible

"Though I speak with the tongues of men"
- Though I should be able to speak all the languages which are spoken by people. To speak foreign languages was regarded then, as it is now, as a rare and valuable endowment; compare Virgil, Aeneas vi. 625ff.

The word "I" here is used in a popular sense, and the apostle designs to illustrate, as he often does, his idea by a reference to himself, which, it is evident, he wishes to be understood as applying to those whom he addressed.

It is evident that among the Corinthians the power of speaking a foreign language was regarded as a signally valuable endowment; and there can be no doubt that some of the leaders in that church valued themselves especially on it; see 1 Corinthians 14.

To correct this, and to show them that all this would be vain without love, and to induce them, therefore, to seek for love as a more valuable endowment, was the design of the apostle in this passage.

Of this verse Dr. Bloomfield, than whom, perhaps, there is no living man better qualified to give such an opinion, remarks, that "it would be difficult to find a finer passage than this in the writings of Demosthenes himself."

"And of angels"
- The language of angels; such as they speak. Were I endowed with the faculty of eloquence and persuasion which we attribute to them; and the power of speaking to any of the human family with the power which they have. The language of angels here seems to be used to denote the highest power of using language, or of the most elevated faculty of eloquence and speech.

It is evidently derived from the idea that the angels are "superior" in all respects to human beings; that they must have endowments in advance of all which man can have. It may possibly have reference to the idea that they must have some mode of communicating their ideas one to another, and that this dialect or mode must be far superior to that which is employed by man. Man is imperfect. All his modes of communication are defective. We attribute to the angels the idea of perfection; and the idea here is, that even though a man had a far higher faculty of speaking languages than would be included in the endowment of speaking all the languages of human beings as people speak them, and even had the higher and more perfect mode of utterance which the angels have, and yet were destitute of love, all would be nothing.

It is possible that Paul may have some allusion here to what he refers to in 2 Corinthians 12:4, where he says that when he was caught up into paradise, he heard unspeakable words which it was not possible for a man to utter. To this higher, purer language of heaven he may refer here by the language of the angels. It was not with him mere "conjecture" of what that language might be; it was language which he had been permitted himself to hear. Of that scene he would refain a most deep and tender recollection; and to that language he now refers, by saying that even that elevated language would be valueless to a creature if there were not love ...

... It is this love whose importance Paul, in this beautiful chapter, illustrates as being more valuable than the highest possible endowments without it. It is not necessary to suppose that anyone had these endowments, or had the power of speaking with the tongues of human beings and angels; or had the gift of prophecy, or had the highest degree of faith who had no love.

The apostle supposes a case; and says that if it were so, if all these were possessed without love, they would be comparatively valueless; or that love was a more valuable endowment than all the others would be without it.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

"speak with the tongues"
— with the eloquence which was so much admired at Corinth (for example, Apollos, Ac 18:24; compare 1 Co 1:12; 3:21, 22),
and with the command of various languages, which some at Corinth abused to purposes of mere ostentation (1 Co 14:2, &c.)

"of angels"
— higher than men, and therefore, it is to be supposed, speaking a more exalted language

For (saith the apostle)
though I speak, that is, if I could speak, or admit I did speak, with the tongues used in all the nations of the world, and with the tongues of angels; by which some understand the best and most excellent ways of expressing ourselves.

Angels have no tongues, nor make any articulate audible sounds, by which they understand one another; but yet there is certainly a society or intercourse among angels, which could not be upheld without some way amongst them to communicate their minds and wills each to other.

How this is we cannot tell: some of the schoolmen say, it is by way of impression: that way God, indeed, communicates his mind sometimes to his people, making secret impressions of his will upon their minds and understandings; but whether angels can do the like, or what their way is of communicating their minds each to other, is a great secret, and we ought to be willingly ignorant of what God hath not pleased, in any part of his revealed will, to tell us.

Neither do I judge it a question proper to this place, where the tongues of angels unquestionably signify the best and most excellent ways of expressing and communicating ourselves to others; as manna is called angels’ food, Psalm 78:25, that is, the most excellent food, for angels, being spiritual substances, need no food, have no mouths to eat, nor bellies to fill; and this the apostle meaneth. Though I could express myself, or communicate my mind to others, in the most excellent way, or in the greatest variety of expression, yet if I have not agaphn, which we translate,

And thus the apostle proveth, that the habit of love to God and man in the heart, is far more excellent than the gift of tongues, which many of the Corinthians had, or coveted, or boasted in, despising those who had it not

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

... what he says here and in the following verses, is in an hypothetical way, supposing such a case, and in his own person, that it might be the better taken, and envy and ill will be removed: he adds,

"and of angels";
not that angels have tongues in a proper sense, or speak any vocal language, in an audible voice, with articulate sounds; for they are spirits immaterial and incorporeal; though they have an intellectual speech, by which they celebrate the perfections and praises of God, and can discourse with one another, and communicate their minds to each other; see Isaiah 6:3 and which is what the Jews (q) call, ""the speech of the heart"; and is the speech (they say) , "which the angels speak" in their heart; and is the "pure language", and more excellent than other tongues; is pleasant discourse, the secret of the holy seraphim--and is , "the talk of angels"; who do the will of their Creator in their hearts, and in their thoughts:"

This is not what the apostle refers to; but rather the speech of angels, when they have assumed human bodies, and have in them spoke with an audible voice, in articulate sounds; of which we have many instances, both in the Old Testament and the New, wherein they have conversed with divers persons, as Hagar, Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Manoah and his wife, the Virgin Mary, Zechariah, and others; unless by the tongues of angels should be meant the most eloquent speech, and most excellent of languages; or if there can be thought to be any tongue that exceeds that of men, which, if angels spoke, they would make use of. Just as the face of angels is used, to express the greatest glory and beauty of the face, or countenance, Acts 6:15 and angels' bread is used for the most excellent food, Psalm 78:25. Dr. Lightfoot thinks, and that not without reason, that the apostle speaks according to the sense and conceptions of the Jews, who attribute speech and language to angels

EXEGETICAL (ORIGINAL LANGUAGES)
Meyer's NT Commentary
ΟὐΔῈ ΕἸ ΜΥΡΊΑ ΣΤΌΜΑΤΑ ἜΧΟΙ ΚΑῚ ΜΥΡΊΑς ΓΛΏΣΣΑς.
The meaning is:
Supposing that I am a speaker with tongues, from whom all possible kinds of articulate tongues might be heard, not simply those of men, but also—far more wonderful and exalted still—those of the angels.

Paul thus describes the very loftiest of all conceivable cases of glossolalia. The tongues of angels here spoken of are certainly only an abstract conception, but one in keeping with the poetic character of the passage ...

Why the apostle begins with the γλώσσ. λαλ., is correctly divined by Theodoret (comp Chrysostom, Oecumenius, Theophylact): ΠΡῶΤΟΝ ἉΠΆΝΤΩΝ ΤΈΘΕΙΚΕ ΤῊΝ ΠΑΡΕΞΈΤΑΣΙΝ ΠΟΙΟΎΜΕΝΟς ΤῸ ΧΆΡΙΣΜΑ ΤῶΝ ΓΛΩΣΣῶΝ, ἘΠΕΙΔῊ ΤΟῦΤΟ ΠΑΡʼ ΑὐΤΟῖς ἘΔΌΚΕΙ ΜΕῖΖΟΝ ΕἾΝΑΙ ΤῶΝ ἌΛΛΩΝ. It had become the subject of over-estimation and vanity to the undervaluing of love

Pulpit Commentary
Verse 1.
- "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels"

The case is merely supposed. The tongues of men are human languages, including, perhaps, the peculiar utterance of ecstatic inspiration with which he is now dealing. It is, perhaps, with reference to this latter result of spiritual exultation, at any rate in its purest and loftiest developments, that he adds the words, "and of angels." It is unlikely that he is referring to the rabbinic notion that the angels only understood Hebrew, and not Aramaic or other languages. The words are meant to express the greatest possible climax. The most supreme powers of utterance, even of angelic utterance - if any of the Corinthians had or imagined that they had attained to such utterance - are nothing in comparison with the universally possible attainment of Christian love

It is remarkable, that here again, he places "tongues," even in their grandest conceivable development, on the lowest step in his climax

Vincent's Word Studies
Tongues
- Mentioned first because of the exaggerated importance which the Corinthians attached to this gift.

Angels
- Referring to the ecstatic utterances of those who spoke with tongues.

Pulpit Commentary Homiletics
Life Without Love
1 Corinthians 13:1-3
E. Hurndall
I. THE APOSTLE DECLARES THE NOTHINGNESS OF LIFE WITHOUT LOVE. He supposes some extreme cases.

1. The acquisition of all languages; the utmost facility of expression; the most splendid eloquence. He does not even limit to humanity, but adds, "and of angels," to show that no acquisition in this direction at all meets the case. The Corinthian Church was peculiarly proud of its "gift of tongues;" its love was not so conspicuous. Our glorying is often false glorying. That which is most praised is not always the most praiseworthy. We are apt to prize most what we should prize least. To talk is not the chief thing; to be is far more important. Talking power without love is noise without music, sounding brass, clanging cymbals. Heavenly language would lose its heavenliness without the royal grace

Matthew Poole's Commentary

"though I speak",
that is, if I could speak, or admit I did speak, with the tongues used in all the nations of the world, and with the tongues of angels; by which some understand the best and most excellent ways of expressing ourselves. Angels have no tongues, nor make any articulate audible sounds, by which they understand one another; but yet there is certainly a society or intercourse among angels, which could not be upheld without some way amongst them to communicate their minds and wills each to other.

Christianity Etc › Re: I Should Speak In Tongues, Right? by MuttleyLaff: 12:17am On May 24, 2020*

[img]https://s7/images/SuppositionGrammar.jpg[/img]

Christianity Etc › Re: Rome, Bantus And The Demon- White Jesus by MuttleyLaff: 11:43pm On May 23, 2020

eplanning:
Please show us live pictures of your so-called red Israelites.
See original paintings of Israelite slaves in Egypt. Are these not our people?
They've already started scraping the images to make them white.

What are each of their skin hue. Are they reddish-brown skinned, black-skinned or white-skinned nah?
Why are you running away from committing yourself to saying what their skin hue is, erhn?

Christianity Etc › Re: I Should Speak In Tongues, Right? by MuttleyLaff: 11:39pm On May 23, 2020

Finallydead:
My day is blessed, thanks a lot. Wish you grace and peace from the Father as well.
Acehart, you must, if you're willing to, learn to put all scriptures in their context. Only an unskilful workman(2Tim2:15) does otherwise.

You just by comparing 1Cor13 with Gal1:8, discarded the context of 1Cor13. You are now guilty of inserting those seeming insignificant words from Gal1:8 that completely change its idea, like Muttley did that I was correcting.
An emphatic NO. It is not one bit the same tone that Paul uses in both.
And how can we confirm that? Follow the two different stories.
In Gal1:8, Paul used those words Mutt was trying to add to 1Cor13
Gal 1:8 KJV BUT EVEN IF we, OR an angel from heaven...
You see those bolded words there, they make it only an unrealistic example flowing with the context that "...some were perverting the gospel of Christ..."(v7).

That was why I had to make sure Muttleylaff got caught trying to add those.

But 1Cor13 is very different.
1Co 13:1 KJV If(no "but"/no "even" ) I speak with the tongues of men AND (no "or even" ) of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
You see the absence of those words make a huge difference when you put the text in its context from 1Cor 12:31. The "and" also is very important because it shows a strict pairing and joining of the two into the gift called "sorts of tongues".
The even larger context of 1Cor13:1 begins in 1Cor12:1, which is a branch/new string in the entire letter. We can title this segment "Concerning the Spiritual...(1Cor12:1)". So in 1Cor12, he goes on to list out gifts. After all that, he ends the chapter by saying

1Co 12:31 KJV But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet(or plus) shew I unto you a more excellent way(love)

So in 1Cor13:1, he describes a scenario (not an impossible one but a very possible) hence "if" in which the best gifts(from 1Cor12) are used minus love to show that these plus love is the more excellent way.

With all the explanation I did up there about 1Cor13:1-3, you ought to have already seen that Paul is calling REAL gifts already listed in 1Cor12 in 1Cor13:1-3, not some impossible scenarios. Not one of the gifts listed there was an impossible gift. So, if you want to single out tongues of angels as impossible, do it for every other gift listed in v1-3. Mutt, of course, knows better than to cheerlead you for that.
It's plain and simple, if you are humbly and objectively searching for truth and not trying to hold on to a position.
One last thing, on a field of search for truth, try not to be distracted by cheers and hugs. Maintain your focus until you find truth. If you still honestly don't know, I advise you go back to God in prayer.

God bless you.

Finallydead, do everyone a favour and yourself, please pull out your best ever interlinear to paste here 1 Corinthians 13:1, for a word for word peer review

Christianity Etc › Re: Tribes Of Gad, Ephraim And Judah In Yoruba Land by MuttleyLaff: 11:26pm On May 23, 2020

eplanning:
[s]How can you show Egyptians looking like white people and think I will take you seriously?[/s]
Abeg leave me with your red, blue or green nonsense. All that one na format for lying.

What is the skin colour nah of the pictures on the left hand side column? Are they reddish-brown skinned, black-skinned or white-skinned?

Christianity Etc › Re: Tribes Of Gad, Ephraim And Judah In Yoruba Land by MuttleyLaff: 11:18pm On May 23, 2020

eplanning:
Fake whitewashed images! We know the original when we see it.

See what original pictures look like...

What is the skin colour nah? Are they reddish-brown skinned, black-skinned or white-skinned?

Christianity Etc › Re: Rome, Bantus And The Demon- White Jesus by MuttleyLaff: 11:09pm On May 23, 2020

eplanning:
ROTFL!
Cant, you see that those are fake whitewashed images? How could they be original wall paintings of Egypt? Are they not from a book.
That's the problem with basing your arguments on the popular world view. You just have to stick with mainstream lies. Why do you think the MESSIAH will bring destruction to this world? Because this wold's system built by the white man is founded on lies and on the blood of His chosen people. He is a righteous judge who will never ignore such.

It's not difficult to tell original from the fakes, so please stop that nonsense... Even on the original, notice how they've started scraping off the images so they'll look white. For some others, they break off the noses and lips.

Your second to the last picture, please what colour skin tone are those?

Christianity Etc › Re: I Should Speak In Tongues, Right? by MuttleyLaff: 10:59pm On May 23, 2020

[img]https://s5/images/ezgif-2-bb81ab7ea10d.gif[/img]

Christianity Etc › Re: I Should Speak In Tongues, Right? by MuttleyLaff: 10:25pm On May 23, 2020

MuttleyLaff:
"What if I could speak all languages of humans and even of angels?
If I did not love others, I would be nothing more than a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
(i.e. If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels,
but have not love, I am only a ringing gong or a clanging cymbal.) "
- 1 Corinthians 13:1

You ought to have quoted that Corinthians 13:1 in its entirety.
Why have you cropped out and leave what's left that suits your preconceived idea, hmm?
Tsk, tsk, tsk, that is naughty, dishonest and insincere.

I sure hope you know the implication of those two above emboldened and underlined word in grammar sha.
That is talking of, do you understand what "What if" and "If I" means, hmm?

Acehart:
Hi,

Hope your day was spent in the best way you could? Concerning the angel question, Paul had made a similar statement in Galatians 1:8: But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

Paul wasn’t saying an angel would come from heaven to preach another gospel; He was just stressing the form of creatures who have the capacity of speech to the superlative degree; a statement made by conjecture.

Paul definitely knows he wouldn’t teach anything contrary yet he brings up the sanctity of the gospel and how it should be protected in the hearts of those in Galatia (against men and creatures)

One word: Hyperbole

Acehart:
The same tone is used in 1 Corinthians 13:1. In both cases, Paul is using an “if” condition; I mean: “if” is used introduce possible or impossible situations or conditions and their results.

The situations or conditions can be real, imagined or uncertain. I could tell a conductor who insults me after his bus driver hits my bike:
if I slap you, you go die. I am referring to a possible condition of him dying if I slapped him.
Did I slap him? Yes, two dirty slaps, but he didn’t die. That means the result was imagined.

I hope you understand.

May God continue to increasingly richly bless you with much more understanding

Christianity Etc › Re: I Should Speak In Tongues, Right? by MuttleyLaff: 10:20pm On May 23, 2020

Finallydead:
You'll remember it, when it happens again, ...

www.nairaland.com/attachments/11589388_11587171img20200428wa0006jpeg3e2e1d35eebeaa9c0046e23b9001aed9_jpegf7601e9ef3daa1ff2181c6b9500a1e64

Christianity Etc › Re: I Should Speak In Tongues, Right? by MuttleyLaff: 10:00pm On May 23, 2020*

Myer:
Good question. hupernikao is suffering from a chronic eisegesis disorder. He wants to read his meaning into the scriptures rather than reading what the scripture says.

It is a smh malaise.

Myer:
Clearly, there are two types of tongues, some bible scholars have carefully named these Known tongues (lord tongues of men) and Unknown tongues (or tongues of angels).

With all due respect, does hyperbole, at all have any meaning you're familiar with?

Myer:
Apparently from the interaction in Acts 2:6 we can induce that the tongues spoken by disciples here were tongues of men, as various unbelievers from the corners of the world heard each his own language

"They gathered when they heard the wind.
Each person was startled to recognize his own dialect when the disciples spoke
(i.e. And when that noise occurred, the entire populace gathered and was agitated,
because each one of them heard that they were speaking in their dialects."
- Acts 2:6

The language spoken by the disciples were in dialects of the listing pilgrim Israelites/Jews and likely proselytes too. The Hebrew word used translated as language by some translation bible version is "dialektos" (i.e. speech, conversation, manner of speaking or language)

Myer:
This is different from speaking tongues of angels which would require someone also given utterance of interpretation to understand.
Tongues of angels cannot be understood which is why Paul exhorts that it should be done in private except there be an interpreter, lest unbelievers think the person is mad.

Where is the biblical reference for this ludicrous claim

Myer:
A recent example is a woman who survived a car crash and burst into tongues. While believers understood her worship others thought she had gone crazy.

Our God is not a God of confusion. To what end and/or purpose was this woman going batty like that for

Myer:
That is simply what Paul is saying. Tongues of angels are private affairs except there is an Interpreter.
But today the case different, the whole church is full of tongue-totting believers yet not one interpreter.

I am 1000% certain that Apostle Paul never categorically said anything about tongues of angels are private affairs and except there is an Interpreter.
When Angel Gabriel visited Mary, what sort of language were they both conversing in? What tongue? Angelic language or tongue of man?

Myer:
Makes you wonder how come the gift of tongues is in abundance while there's paucity of the gift of interpretation.

It is because its easier to fake the former

Myer:
What then is the essence of all the mysteries being spoken in tongues if no one understands it?

I want you to please recite this prayer:
"Ya Ubangiji, ka taimake ni kar na dogara da fahimta ta amma ka fahimci komai domin ka iya sarrafa maganata, tunanina da ayyukana. Da sunan Yesu, Amin."

1/ Did you recite it?
2/ Did you understand the prayer above you just recited?
3/ If your answer to #2 above is No, then what was the essence of all the mysteries in the prayer you recited above, if you didn't understand it?

Myer:
Or maybe no one understands it because not one of them is actually speaking in tongues but everyone has been taught this charade we nowadays call tongues.

Gbam!

Christianity Etc › Re: Rome, Bantus And The Demon- White Jesus by MuttleyLaff: 9:26pm On May 23, 2020

eplanning:
he has nothing to show

MuttleyLaff:
Be deceiving yourself there. Hebrew ko. Ibru ni

[img]https://s7/images/image009.jpg[/img]
FIRST HALF OF CARAVAN SCENE

[img]https://s7/images/image011.jpg[/img]
SECOND HALF OF CARAVAN SCENE
Notice the design of the clothing.
Unlike the Hebrews, the Egyptians basically wore plain white linen.

[img]https://s7/images/seti_0.jpg[/img]
From the tomb of Seti I:
Syrian, Nubian, Libyan, Egyptian
Now do you want to have another go trying your hands on this,
but this time be correct

[img]https://s7/images/image013.jpg[/img]
HEBREW MEN

[img]https://s7/images/image021.jpg[/img]
SHEMITES

[img]https://s7/images/image023.jpg[/img]
JAPHETH (EUROPEANS)

You can continue deceiving yourself as much as and as long as you want. The thing is hieroglyphics like these above don't lie

Christianity Etc › Re: Tribes Of Gad, Ephraim And Judah In Yoruba Land by MuttleyLaff: 9:14pm On May 23, 2020

eplanning:
yes, that's how God moves people to confess the truth even though they don't want to.
And by the way, the very dark image is a Hebrew.

Be deceiving yourself there. Hebrew ko. Ibru ni

eplanning:
He has priestly attire and dressing. His headwear and earings too.
See picture of Israelites (Jacob's children) as slaves in Egypt. With the same headwear, earrings, and negro look.

[img]https://s7/images/image009.jpg[/img]
FIRST HALF OF CARAVAN SCENE

[img]https://s7/images/image011.jpg[/img]
SECOND HALF OF CARAVAN SCENE
Notice the design of the clothing.
Unlike the Hebrews, the Egyptians basically wore plain white linen.

[img]https://s7/images/seti_0.jpg[/img]
From the tomb of Seti I:
Syrian, Nubian, Libyan, Egyptian
Now do you want to have another go trying your hands on this,
but this time be correct

eplanning:
History shows that many Israelites settled in Nubia.
In fact the majority of those in Africa once settled there before migrating further down.

[img]https://s7/images/image013.jpg[/img]
HEBREW MEN

[img]https://s7/images/image021.jpg[/img]
SHEMITES

[img]https://s7/images/image023.jpg[/img]
JAPHETH (EUROPEANS)

You can continue deceiving yourself as much as and as long as you want. The thing is hieroglyphics like these above don't lie

Christianity Etc › Re: Tribes Of Gad, Ephraim And Judah In Yoruba Land by MuttleyLaff: 7:45pm On May 23, 2020

eplanning:
[s]Instead of answering my questions you come and start abusing donnie.
So you know more than the well-reputed Zondervan bible dictionary?
Show me your Israelite or Israelite complexion today if you're not a scam. The fraudulent maps you posted are the result of the whitewashing of history. Anyone that thinks can see that.

Many of you prefer to deal with God or the bible as myths or something abstract. Bible scholars like Zondervan or folks like donnie bring it home. [/s]

https://www.gci.org/files/ramsesIII_0.jpg
Different nationalities depicted in tomb of Ramses III:
Libyan, Nubian, Syrian, Bedouin, Hittite

Take a lucky guess what colour skin are up there
Whats your birthday. Need to get you a dictionary so you can use to look up meaning of abusing. Smh.
Makes me wonder why no one else aside Zondervan has Negroes invented, but not the Egyptians. Smh

Christianity Etc › Re: Rome, Bantus And The Demon- White Jesus by MuttleyLaff: 7:23pm On May 23, 2020

eplanning:
show us a sample of a living human today you will regard as an Israelite or having Israelite color

The National Geographic statute facial reconstruction of 1st century Judean man, around the time of Jesus is actually reddish brown skinned if you want to be honest, sincere and truthful

Christianity Etc › Re: Tribes Of Gad, Ephraim And Judah In Yoruba Land by MuttleyLaff: 7:20pm On May 23, 2020

eplanning:
So you think because your sources called them jews they are white? It was a well-known fact and not something for debate that ancient Israelites/ Jews were black. The grand plan to deceive the world wasn't in full effect in early years, hence the accurate sources from donnie. There has been an ongoing agenda to rewrite history, change maps etc. You are only being willfully ignorant.

Zondervan bible stated it clearly that the Negoes are not children of Ham. Meaning they are not like the Egyptians, Lybians, Ethiopians etc. If they are not Hammites so who are they?

You're only setting yourself up against the truth for whatever reason. A global deception has been unfolded and this thing donnie is doing won't stop. The truth is already spreading like fire around the world.

What skin complexion were the Egyptians, Libyans, Ethiopians et cetera and what skin complexion were the "Negroes", whatever Negroes" in that context mean?

Your friend is self deluding himself, he is an identity thief, coveting someone else's identity. If by a fluke, he really is a BHI, he'll have to be mongrelised, that is the only way you'll turn out be an Israelite, because the Assyrians, killed every captive Israelites, none escaped, the ones they didn't kill, they took to their big empire and scattered their among the 120 nations within their empire, then made them to intermarry and lose their Jewish identity. That is where the phrase the lost sheep of Israel, note not the lost sheep of Judah, but the lost sheep which happened to be the 10 tribes taken away in exile. Similar thing happened around 200 years later of the Northern kingdom of the House of Israel, the same thing happened to the Southern kingdom, the House of Judah, when the Babylonian conquered the Assyrians, and then after descended on Judah, they took everyone captive and exiled, only to allow some to return and rebuild the temple a second time. The last time assault happened on the Israelites was in 70 AD, when the Romans razed Jerusalem to the ground, killed and took millions as slaves . The fleeing Israelites are those you see in the above map. Jesus 40 years earlier had warned them about this, and thats how some had earlier before the Romans turn up had been fleeing

Christianity Etc › Re: Tribes Of Gad, Ephraim And Judah In Yoruba Land by MuttleyLaff: 6:39pm On May 23, 2020

eplanning:
Poeple are showing authentic ancient sources, you're showing ESAU-manufactured 2014 sources.

Verifiable dates with comments made by credible and reputable historians. Do you see no gaps, no suddenly appearing somewhere out of thin air in 1400s something

Christianity Etc › Re: Rome, Bantus And The Demon- White Jesus by MuttleyLaff: 6:37pm On May 23, 2020

eplanning:
you dey show me painting. is that not my color there? Why deceive yourself?

That is ruddy reddish brown skinned king David there.

Christianity Etc › Re: I Should Speak In Tongues, Right? by MuttleyLaff: 6:35pm On May 23, 2020*

Acehart:
Nay. Don’t you see what we are doing? We speak about an “unknown” wonderful game in a known tongue but it seems like gibberish to many. Whether we speak about the “unknown” beautiful game in a known or unknown tongue, we would sound gibberish until the “unknown” game becomes “known” especially in known tongues. Oops!

This is beautiful. I stood clapping, giving it a standing ovation. Just so succinct and brilliant.

Maybe we should do angelic tongues next time Acehart, lmao grin

Could you believe that Juanita Bynum, the other day on Facebook was praying and typing out tongues displayed. She packed it quickly after the backlash and advice that she was taking the piss and pushing the thing too far

Christianity Etc › Re: Rome, Bantus And The Demon- White Jesus by MuttleyLaff: 6:29pm On May 23, 2020

eplanning:
You are yet to show us samples of your reddish-brown humans. Only cows.

[img]https://s7/images/KingDavidRedBrownSkinned.jpg[/img]
The “Bristol Psalter” is a pocket sized 11th-century manuscript
contains the Greek text of the Psalms followed by the biblical Odes.
Pictured here is King David.

Chief, I have boku here. Just bear with me. I got caught up in other business here. Just so you believe me. I'll paste one here, but will return much later to prolly to remove it and edit this post. I am just posting it here to satisfy you

Christianity Etc › Re: I Should Speak In Tongues, Right? by MuttleyLaff: 6:14pm On May 23, 2020*

Finallydead:
Believing is impossible before the eyes(spiritual or at least physical) perceive the object of belief.
Mutt, when you come to a public forum littered with people who have read the Bible as you also have, be careful to present your perspective with modesty.

In regards to what specifically does the emboldened mean please because I don't follow

Finallydead:
Also, remember we all know only a bit and can learn while we teach.

Assuming you believe Paul wasn't pulling legs when he said "tongues of men and of angels" (1 Cor 13:1),

"What if I could speak all languages of humans and even of angels?
If I did not love others, I would be nothing more than a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
(i.e. If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels,
but have not love, I am only a ringing gong or a clanging cymbal.) "
- 1 Corinthians 13:1

You ought to have quoted that Corinthians 13:1 in its entirety.
Why have you cropped out and leave what's left that suits your preconceived idea, hmm?
Tsk, tsk, tsk, that is naughty, dishonest and insincere. I sure hope you know the implication of those two above emboldened and underlined word in grammar sha. That is talking of do you understand what "What if" and "If I" means, hmm?

Finallydead:
let me answer you.

Thank you for your generosity in answering the questions. This isn't something that often happens, as questions are either ignored, over looked or half heartedly answered, so much appreciated you answered them. Let me now review your responses

Finallydead:
Answers
1.)Paul 1Cor14:5a,15a. Also everyone who said we should pray in the Spirit

"I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, (i.e. note, pray in an angelic tongue) but I would rather have you prophesy.
The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues,
unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified"
- 1 Corinthians 14:5

"So what shall I do?
I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding;
I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding."
- 1 Corinthians 14:15

Smh, just as I thought. Where in the so call 1 Corinthians 14:5a and 1 Corinthians 14:15a is "... pray in an angelic tongue" hmm?

Finallydead:
2.)1Cor14:14a

"For example, if I use an unknown language in my prayers, my spirit prays but my mind is useless.
(i.e. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind (i.e. understanding) is unfruitful."
- 1 Corinthians 14:14

Smh, again I ask where in 1 Corinthians 14:14a is there angelic tongue, is about your spirit man itself praying and sanctioned by the Spirit to do so

Finallydead:
3.)1Cor14:18(both Paul and also they all in the church in Corinth whom he corrected for using it publicly)

"I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you"
- 1 Corinthians 14:18

I can't believe you'll have the cheek to produce 1 Corinthians 14:18 as your biblical proof or instance of anyone using angelic tongue/language to pray, smh. Speaking in tongue/language (i.e. speaking in English) has now become praying and no more speaking. Where is angelic tongue in that verse?""

Finallydead:
4.)1Cor14:4a (personal edification, your spirit expresses itself in its native(heavenly) language, it fellowships with Divinity)

"The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself,
but the one who prophesies builds up the church"
- 1 Corinthians 14:4a

Smh. Totally flabbergasted. It just renders me speechless

Finallydead:
5.)1Cor14:5a,15(pray and sing with his spirit). Praying in the Holy Spirit, meaning whatever manifestation of His was the standard of all the apostles (Jud:20, Eph6:18)

"I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy.
The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues,
unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified."
- 1 Corinthians 14:5a

"So what shall I do?
I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding;
I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding."
- 1 Corinthians 14:15

"Pray in the Spirit at all times and on every occasion.
Stay alert and be persistent in your prayers for all believers everywhere"
- Ephesians 6:18

"But you, beloved, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit,"
- Jude 1:20

With the manner you've answered the whole five questions, I've now got to understand the meaning of the tone at the beginning now and why. Smh.

Where in any of those verses, does God or any of the Apostles, sanctioned praying in angelic tongues, as a preferred mode of praying or recommendation?

Finallydead:
Now Mutt, let me undertake to show how flawed the thought is that the tongues here are human.

Please be my guest and on the conditions you tell
1/ Why is it necessary to pray in angels' tongue/language?
2/ Why is praying in my spirit (i.e. not audibly praying, meaning praying silently in the spirit) if not better than, not as good as this your imagined angels' tongue/language?

Finallydead:
Is this language for the unbeliever?
Clearly answered by Paul. By quoting the prophet Isaiah, Paul shows that God's judgement on the rebellious/unbeliever is that "...YET they will not hear..."(1Cor14:21) hence the tongues here are a sign showing/pointing out that humanity in its separation from God can never hear/understand the divine. This tongues is a sign/pointer to that fact. So, this is not tongues with any intention to communicate to humanity but a different purpose.
One might ask but even the believer himself may not understand. Yes, the believer's mind is unfruitful but it is the same believer who spoke the divine language, hence the believer has at least a something of divinity in him, albeit yet to be developed to the point of hearing unlike the unbeliever who can neither hear nor speak the divine.

Notice also that Paul clearly says the unbeliever(note that this is ALL unbelievers as he does not specify a unique category, i.e. all anywhere on earth) a.k.a unlearned will NOT be able to relate when these tongues are spoken(1Cor14:23)

Is this language when spoken understandable to the believer?
1 Cor14:19 makes it clear that it will not readily be understandable to the believer except with translation hence Paul would rather speak just a single understandable word in the congregation than tongues and he makes them desist from public use of the gift.
1 Cor14:2 makes it equally clear that it is NOT TO MEN but only to God and in fact NONE understands the tongues. Furthermore the gift is said to be a speaking forth of MYSTERIES not knowledge(hence hidden from the congregation) and not to the audience but IN THE SPIRIT

A Useful Illustration
Imagine we all on this thread meet in person for a closed room fellowship and our present written conversation is as our spoken exhortation to one another.

Scenario A
So we've all been flowing up to this point when suddenly Acehart ceases speaking in English because God initiates Korean tongue through him(I assume none of us understands). What would God be achieving but speaking into the air(1Cir14:9)? Neither Acehart nor anyone else will be blessed.
Then again, if hoopernikao(because it sounds a bit Korean, lol) understands Korean. Then we would assume God was trying to pass a message to hooper that even Acehart himself would be ignorant of. Now, God would have achieved something(for hooper). Let this be Scenario A.

Scenario B
Consider then scenario B, where rather than Korean, Acehart begins to speak angelic tongue(not the mimicked gibberish promoted in several churches tho) which of course NONE understands, not even Acehart's mind but only his spirit man(1Cor14:14) partaking of the divine nature.

If scenario A was what spoken of in 1Cor14, take note Myer, Paul would be wrong to advise 1Cor14:28 that for a lack of a Korean-to- English translator to help the rest of us, Acehart shouldn't have spoken. As a matter of fact, if God did the tongues, He was intent on getting hooper's attention.
So, Paul wasn't referring to scenario A, but to scenario B(tongues of angels as well as all through 1Cor14), hence he recommends only private use where your spirit, being a partaker of divine nature, speaks it's native heavenly language/hence gaining the liberty of expression and refreshing itself in that.

And to quell Myer's fear, let me answer his question clearly. Yes, it is a common experience for people to speak unlearned foreign tongues in preaching the gospel similar to scenario A or Acts2. This is at best called tongues of men. But what Paul referred to in 1Cor14 was tongues of angels.

First we can all agree that all humans on earth can be broadly categorised into two according to the gospel as also here in 1 Cor14- believers and unbeliever

[img]https://s3/images/ObamaMuttley.gif[/img]
So? After you've mixed apples with oranges, abi?

First as early as Genesis human according to Israelites customs were categorised as descendants of Abraham and then Gentiles (i.e. Genesis 22:18, "goy" is the Hebrew word for Gentile) same Hebrew "goy" used for heathen, then da da da da da used for unbeliever, as in unbelieving Jew(s), not believing the Messiah and the gospel He proclaims, then after the flood gates were flung open, anyone thats anyone out yet to believe the gospel, as there now is no Jew or Gentile,

Consider also this gift according to the 1 Cor12:10 pairs with another gift- "translation of tongues".
This is also why we know Paul is not referring to human tongues. You see there's no use interpreting a human tongue which has already reached God's target audience in their learned language as it would already be a prophecy to them just as in Acts2, nobody had to translate. Translation only goes with tongues of angels.

As I've said above, you are conflating two things, lmao and you are doing this so to engineer towards your pre-conceived notion of imagined angelic tongues/language

You are combining Acts 2:8, Acts 10:46 and Acts 19:6 which had a best-before date with the no best-before date, no used-by date spiritual gift of speaking in tongues. The former was specifically "neos" "kainos-ed" for the lost sheep of Israel first. Jesus always gave the lost sheep the first serving. The Samaritian lady wanted to jump the queue, He declined saying no that He came for the lost sheep, only to relent and yield to the woman's determination. Jesus, sent the 12 disciples to the lost sheep first, (i.e. Matthew 10:5-15) warning them not to attend to anyone else, saying "... Do not go onto the road of the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans" It was after they returned back from their training expedition amazed of what they achieved that He now thereafter sent out the 70 disciples, saying "... Go! I am sending you out like lambs among wolves .." to preach to everyone (i.e. Luke 10:1). It has always been the Israelites/Jews first before anyone, before the floodgates were flung open. It is just protocol, nothing else more to it than that, lmao.

Anyway, Jesus upon resurrection, before ascending to heavens. Remember He was killed before the Passover, was in the tomb just before the Sabbath and rose on Sunday after the Sabbath, meanwhile non-Jerusalem Jews have converged into Jerusalem for the Passover festive. Meanwhile, the Passover Lamb has just been sacrificed for the sin of the whole wide word, the Ha Mashiach, aka the Messiah aka Christ, the Yahushua, aka Jesu, aka Saviour has advanced advised the disciples to wait in Jerusalem, so to receive power from on high (i.e. Acts 1:4, cool

and so they did, that on the 50th day, the day of Pentecost, with a loud audible sign, they heard a gust of wind, run sweepingly into the house they were in, fill the whole place up, then people in attendance saw a visible manifestation of a flame of fire shaped in the form of a human being's mouth tongue, forked in shape (i.e. two-pronged) descended on the disciples heads seating there, of which thereafter from this powerful and visible unction, they began to speak in tongues/languages they have never learned before, so much to the surprise of the pilgrim Israelites/Jews in attendance (i.e. Acts 2:4)

Now there was the chance, to have the Gospel proclaimed and announced to the pilgrim Israelites/Jews, and so it was done in their different and individual languages (i.e. Acts 2:7-12). This was best-before date #1 rolling out of the spiritual gift of speaking in tongues/languages.

The second best-before date, happened at Cornelius' place, who happened to be a welcoming and generous Roman Gentile, but who had the fear of God in him. It was Apostle Peter, who had the honours, albeit, he first was dilly dallying, anyway he went there inside and found many people, already there gathered together (i.e. Acts 10:27). To cut a long story short, Peter began as if like a singing canary bird preaching about the Messiah et cetera, soon the power of the Holy Spirit fell on Cornelius, his household and other believing Gentiles so much that they tools in Acts 2:4 earlier were speaking in tongues, that the Jewish believers who came with Peter were amazed that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles, too (i.e. Acts 10: 44-46)

Swiftly, to the third and final best-before date spiritual gift of speaking in tongues/languages. Here again cutting to the chase. It was Apostle Paul, involved in this one and it had to do with the yet unbelieving John the Baptist disciples. Please go read Acts 19:1-7 for the full gist. Long story short, after preaching, Apostle Paul laid his hands on them, that the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied too.

So there we have it the two-pronged spiritual gift of speaking in tongues. The cloven or two pronged earlier shape signified a split as in divided in two. Those first three were the first leg or first part of the split, the second leg or second part of the split tongue/language was what's given and/or made available, as a general spiritual gift of the other part of speaking in tongues/languages, as we now have for building the church with

"For with ~~stammering lips and~~ another tongue He will speak to this people,
(i.e. Indeed, with ~~mocking lips and~~ foreign tongues, He will speak to this people)"
- Isaiah 28:11

"²⁰Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be mature.
²¹It is written in the Law:
“By strange tongues and foreign lips, I will speak to this people,
but even then they will not listen to Me, says the Lord.”
²²Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers.
Prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers"
- 1 Corinthians 14:20-22

Fast forward to the second leg of the spiritual gift of speaking in tongues symbolised by a cloven/forked/two-pronged human mouth organ tongue unctioning/anointing. We now have Apostle Paul almost grovelling and almost literally on his knees trying to make the Corinthians see sense and spiritually grow up. He then launched into Isaiah 28:11 quoting it but stripping out "stammering lips" or striking out "[i]mocking lips[/I]" because that bit wasn't relevant nor related to his present situation, to say that so it was written in law, that God will have it the people spoke to in tongues/languages that are foreign/unlearned/new/another tongue, but that sadly in spite of that His people will hear but won't listen. After Apostle Paul conceded that, yeah the benefit of speaking in tongues/language is not for the one who already has faith, who believes, but that rather it was for the one without faith, the unbelieving. Prophecy, he concluded, is whats for the one with faith, believers, but not the already lacking faith unbeliever, who does in first place believes

Finallydead:
Let me pause here so as to not disturb Mutt and Ace's, cricket match on a tongues thread field since they both believe tongues has reached its best before date.

Are you really like this in real life. Smh.

Will you quit showing yourself up in public. Please stop making out as if best-before dates means the gift of speaking in tongues is not/no more available. As I have explained above best-before date speaking in tongues and the one of the nine manifestations of the Holy Spirit, the gift of speaking in tongues is what the two-pronged human being mouth organ tongue symbolised. Phase one has gone, we are with phase two of the unction/anointing.

The problem with most guys on here, is aren't familiar with Jewish custom, idioms, festive et cetera. Most don't even know what Pentecost is. They don't know about the "Feast of Weeks" and/or the "Feast of 50 days" that every Jew is expected to travel down to Jerusalem as pilgrims to come celebrate. People with al sort of foreign language, dialect, accents et cetera. I am sure they don't even know that all Jesus' disciples were from the tribe of Benjamin, hence had a Galilean accent, ring or twang of speaking, that was how Apostle Peter was caught out from his speech when he denied Jesus three times and even swearing just to save his dear old skin, lmao. Now c'mon, lets be real here, there is going to be some real potent effective new improved upon thing going on to make these Galilean village disciples have clout to effectively and efficiently do this business of God for Him

Finallydead:
Maybe Goshen360 will come around with more questions to restore both to the purpose of the thread

Did you have to end your post with such sarcasm. So Acehart educating me on cricket was that so bad paining you, you had to become irritable. It is a different light of you, I am first seeing and a side of you I never knew. I didn't know you had. Smh.

Christianity Etc › Re: Tribes Of Gad, Ephraim And Judah In Yoruba Land by MuttleyLaff: 5:17pm On May 23, 2020

[img]https://s7/images/main-qimg-02add098486b361b836d6799999b94d4.png[/img]

[img]https://s7/images/main-qimg-4a9df8bdd49298fc640c9a2d7fb11e15.png[/img]

There is no way the Israelites would have travelled down to the west African coast et cetera. Their yet unmongrelised skin first would be a disadvantage and would work against them, except anyone erroneously believes that the Israelites were black-skinned, meaning as dark skinned as you were. that being you would say they were black. Hmm, lmao?

Now fyi, the above two snapshots shows the historical migration of the Israelites in a picture, with verifiable dates. There are no anthropological nor archaeological findings of Israelites findings anywhere in the west African coast et cetera. The only thing usually brought up, as already done on this thread are 15th century upwards photos, and whats the reason for the gap between up to the 1400s? It is because there are nothing earlier than that migration to the west African coastal.

Interestingly, it was the papal bull and expelled mongrelised Jews from Portugal who had brought in some seemingly Jew culture to parts in Africa. You won't find any records or finding earlier than the 1400s. It's just non-existent, not there. Even historian keep schtum because they record don't exist.

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