₦airaland Forum

Maximus69:
[s]Yes Sir i only wanted to clarify issues further!

When Christendom Churches speak of "fellow believers", they often pretend as if everything is OK.

For instance, Adeboye will publicly refer to Celestial Church of Christ (CCC) or Cherubim and Seraphim (C & S) as fellow Christians, but will never officiate in any of their gatherings nor allow them to officiate in his own Church as the phrase "fellow believers" truthfully means.

So Jehovah's Witnesses on our own refer to members of our organization ONLY whenever we say so, that's why we won't even pray with you if you're not one of Jehovah's Witnesses! [/s]

Maximus69:
Bless you Sir!

Maximus69:
I'm deeply sorry for the blunder Sir!

I thought you referred to JWs as your fellow Christian brothers, but since you've clarified it now it's OK.

Thanks for the compliments Sir!

Maximus69:
@ MuttleyLaff

The underlined is where i got you wrong Sir, please i tender an apology!

The underlined is where i got you wrong Sir, please i tender an apology!

Maximus69:
Today Jehovah's Witnesses (True Christians) don't speak in strange tongues, prophesy new things or know secret thing our fellow Christian brothers don't know!

Maximus69:
[s]I have corrected you countless times on this notion Sir!

If you're not one of Jehovah's Witnesses, you can't possibly be my brother!

There are three circumstances that makes people refer to one another as brothers:-

Blood
Trade
Faith

I never knew nor seen you before, we are not related in anyway, you and i aren't partners in business, so what exactly makes you my brother tori Olórun?

Jesus said all people around me should be viewed as my neighbours {Luke 10:25-37} so you're one of them, i must love you the way i love myself.

But as for members of my FAITH Jesus imposed a commandment on me saying
"a new commandment i am giving you, that you should love one another just as i have loved you (not as Maximus69 love himself) so you must love one another, by this all will know that you are my disciples if you have LOVE amongst yourselves" John 13:34-35

Note that Jesus called this "a new commandment" which totally differs from the ones every Jew have been taught before! Mark 12:32-33

So the love i must have for someone like you should be equal to the one i have for myself, but the one i must have for my JW brothers must surpass that, the type of love Jesus had for me. He sacrificed his life for me, that's the kind of love that JWs must cultivate amongst ourselves!

So you can now see that you're not my brother in anyway, nevertheless you are my neighbour! [/s]

kkins25:
if i keep reading things like this one day muttley i would facepalm myself to death.smh

Daejoyoung:
But the God of the old testament never tolerated the worship of several gods. If there are so many local gods in african traditional culture, how can all of them be a reference to the same God of Israel?

eplanning:
Infact, if you're looking for the children of Israel today, you will most likely find them bowing down to idols. This they did even when they were in the land of Israel, how much more after they were chased out.

Deuteronomy 4
"And the Lord shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the Lord shall lead you.
And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell."

Even those children of Israel in Christianity, are worshipping idols like Easter, Xmas, white Jesus, cross etc

Electricboy:
i totally agree with you, but please what is wrong with the cross?

MuttleyLaff:
"⁹When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God shall give thee,
beware lest thou have a mind to imitate the abominations of those nations.
¹⁰Neither let there be found among you any one that shall expiate his son or daughter, making them to pass through the fire: or that consulteth soothsayers, or observeth dreams and omens, neither let there be any wizard,
¹¹Nor charmer, nor any one that consulteth pythonic spirits, or fortune tellers, or that seeketh the truth from the dead.
¹²For the Lord abhorreth all these things, and for these abominations he will destroy them at thy coming.
¹³Thou shalt be perfect, and without spot before the Lord thy God.
¹⁴These nations, whose land thou shalt possess, hearken to soothsayers and diviners: but thou art otherwise instructed by the Lord thy God.
¹⁵The Lord thy God will raise up to thee a PROPHET of thy nation and of thy brethren like unto me: Him thou shalt hear"
- Deutronomy 18:9-15

"²⁹Jesus answered,
“The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel:
The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
³⁰And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’
³¹The second is this:
You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
There is no other commandment greater than these"
- Mark 12:29–31

You are no better than those bowing down to wood (i.e. the cross) and stone (i.e. the Kaaba) You're actually worse off than they are, lmao donnie. You better repent before it gets late to.

Maximus69:
The GIFTS of any tree is no more significant once the FRUITS are produced! Matthew 7:16-18

Maximus69:
Jehovah's Witnesses (true Christians) totally differ Sir! 2 Corinthians 11:12-13

Maximus69:
So don't expect to hear of your deception in our midst!

Maximus69:
Paul in his letter said

"ALL THESE GIFTS WILL NO MORE BE IN USE, WHEN CHRISTIANITY BECOMES FULLY MATURED" 1Corinthians 13:8-11

Today Jehovah's Witnesses (True Christians) don't speak in strange tongues, prophesy new things or know secret thing our fellow Christian brothers don't know!

What Jesus said will remain as mark of true Christianity during the endtime is LOVE! John 13:34-35 compare to 1 Corinthians 13:13

God bless you!

hoopernikao:
Do JW believe in Prophecies or not?
Paul listed it as part of the 1 Cor 13 you quoted. Just thinking

Maximus69:
I have answered you my guy, it's obvious you're expecting a response that will sooth the idea of false religions claiming Christians around you today!

Maximus69:
So calmly go through my response again to know what true Christians are supposed to be doing now Sir!

Maximus69:
Christianity has passed that childish stage! 1 Corinthians 13:8-11

Finallydead:
There are indeed Nephilim amongst us. Just like the Lord said "As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the coming of the son of Man". It is a confirmed fact. Some high profile European dignitaries are among them especially in Germany, U.K., forming an army for the Beast.
The problem is you can never convince humans cos they look just like the average humans and the media is even controlled by them to persecute and label anyone as a conspiracy theorist who finds dirt about them.
Without the Lord opening one's eyes, they'd never be known. Perilous times we live in. It is time to take cover under the blood of the Holy Lamb and seek true righteousness which is our only protection.

vanida6:
Zion kor
kor name him lion nah

Goshen360:
Why is you laughing at me naw? .

Goshen360:
E be like say you don become ghost appearing to me in my dream abi na me dey dream you, I no even understand. But anyway, you're literally pulling my ears in the dream saying to me, "Goshen360, are you also without understanding"?

Goshen360:
Anyway, I think we have different gift in teaching....some people need "one step at a time" method of teaching because different understanding of audience while some can handle much at a time.

You, my brother is a good teacher just as I am and we're both students of the word

Goshen360:
However, try this most times in your teaching approach: "Ẹ gbiyanju, kẹ ma ti ibi pẹlẹbẹ fi mu ọlẹ jẹ .... "

Maximus69:
Paul in his letter said

"ALL THESE GIFTS WILL NO MORE BE IN USE, WHEN CHRISTIANITY BECOMES FULLY MATURED" 1 Corinthians 13:8-11

Today Jehovah's Witnesses (True Christians) don't speak in strange tongues, prophesy new things or know secret thing our fellow Christian brothers don't know!

What Jesus said will remain as mark of true Christianity during the endtime is LOVE! John 13:34-35 compare to 1 Corinthians 13:13

God bless you!

Acehart:
I faired better than Elijah.

Goshen360:
@ hoopernikao, Myer, Finallydead

1. It is clear from scriptures that what was spoken in Acts was understood by the people that gathered. Hence, we cannot argue on that as we all agreed.

2. So I came to 1 Corinthians 14 with open mind to investigate and practically apply this misunderstanding of the word "unknown"

3. Because I'm from Lagos state, Badagry so I decided to apply the tongue language of badagry man, "Egun"

4. Because the word "unknown" wasn't in originally translation, I simply read it out everywhere it occurred in 1 Corinthians 14 and everywhere I read "tongue or tongues" in KJV I replace with "language or languages"

5. Since the word "unknown" was added by translations for better understanding, I asked myself, what language or languages is unknown anyway? So I quickly brought my "Egun" language in as practical step......

Is you following me slowly.... ....Btw, that's loosed African American English called ebonics just like we have pidgin or broken English in Nigeria.

6. I STOP and pondered on this word "unknown" and decided to do some imagery in the setting of 1 Corinthians 14, that is, I brought in imagination of worshippers with different languages. So here we go....

So I'm the preacher....so I'm the preacher with egun language and in the audience are French, English, Spanish and Yoruba ( let's limit to those four). Now, remember I STOPPED to practically investigate the word "unknown" assuming I want to use this word while I read through 1 Corinthians 14. So, definitely "egun" language is KNOWN to me as the preacher but UNKNOWN to the listeners. Hence, that word "unknown" is not some sort of language(s) that's from nowhere adding the fact that it was added by translations. SO THAT WORD "UNKNOWN" doesn't apply to ME as the preacher BUT to the listener. In this practical case, egun is UNKNOWN to the listeners.

7. So I started reading slowly, inserting my practical languages and at the same time questioning the texts of Apostle Paul. So here we go: I re read the whole of 1 Corinthians 14 with that concept and it makes much clearer.

PART 2.

I did the SAME thing in the steps above BUT IN THIS CASE PART 2, Instead of using my Egun language, I decided to use the commonly taught and believed speaking in tongues taught us in churches in a practical manner but alas, I was caught in several verses of 1 Corinthians 14. How? So in this scenario my language is NOT egun but "unknown" as in UNKNOWN to me and the listeners....like, this below:

h t tps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ne5ZyWsP7Lk

Again I STOPPED and asked myself....why will I even speak in such WHEN EVEN ME NOR THE LISTENER DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THIS SO CALLED "unknown"? But I continued anyway to see my final outcome....

So, I used this option to practically interpret 1 Corinthians 14 to the end, i came to conclusions this OPTION 2 DOES NOT LINE UP WITH MANY VERSES OF 1 CORINTHIANS 14, verses such as.....verses 2 to 6, 13 - 14, 23 - 36.

You can practically do this PART 2 applying those verses and see how those verse starring at you in the face with the outcome....or better still, practically apply PART 1 using your language of choice to interpret the whole 1 Corinthians 14.
I hope we go back to RE-learn or unlearn somethings taught to us in the church while we're new born babes in the Lord.

MuttleyLaff:
"To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits;
to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:"
- 1 Corinthians 12:10

Tbh and if truth be told brother, you actually are on the forefront of those, I sincerely hope will be grabbed, arrested and get convicted through the workings and help of the Holy Spirit about this misunderstood, misused and abused wonderful spiritual gift. It is one, out of the 9 possible different displayed evidences of having the Holy Spirit that could publicly be seen of anyone that's a believer (i.e. 1 Corinthians 12:7-11)

Maximus69:
I can only speak of the JW language/tongue Sir!

VBCampaign:
COVID-19: Why Places of Worship are Essential
By: Deji Yesufu

This past Friday President Donald Trump of the United States of America made a statement that might be considered the most controversial in his tenure in office to date. Trump said that places of worship were “essential” and thus should be allowed to open in various states right across the United States. His exacts words:

“Some governors have deemed the liquor stores and abortion clinics as essential, but have left out churches and other houses of worship. It’s not right. So I’m correcting this injustice and calling houses of worship essential… The governors need to do the right thing and allow these very important essential places of faith to open right now – for this weekend. If they don’t do it, I will override the governors.”

President Trump also added that America needed more prayers and not less. For this reason, he said churches, synagogues and mosques should be given the liberties to open for worship.

Personally, I received that story with great joy and I published a link to it on my social media handle with the comment “God bless President Trump.” A number of responses to me on that thread have elicited this article. I hope you would be able to bear reading this piece with the liberty of heart with which you left scathing criticisms on my Facebook wall.

Let us begin with the word “essential” and why Donald Trump decided to throw his weight behind the matter by labeling religious gathering important. We do not need too much thinking to realize that our world today is a post-religious world. There is a rabid disdain and anger against religion and religious people. The world looks on centuries past and concludes that religion has been the greatest albatross to science and progress in the world. Therefore, if irreligious people could have their way, they would wish that all religion be banned in the world. If you cannot ban religion, at the least consider it non-essential, especially at a time like this when the world is battling a pandemic – they would argue.

While irreligious people consider religion as non-essential, they would gladly label essential work and various businesses that bring money people’s ways. They would also call restaurants and liquor stores essential, and in the words of Donald Trump, they even think abortion clinics are also essential. Clearly, as we would soon see, one man’s meat is another man’s poison. If the irreligious would consider religion as non-essential, the religious have the right to call faith essential and thankfully they have the backing of the world’s most powerful man. Therefore, God bless Donald Trump!

I think what I consider most sickening about all these labeling of essentials and non-essentials is the hypocritical position that half-hearted religious people have taken on the matter. While we live in a post-religious world, it is still not very fashionable to call yourself irreligious or atheist in our world today. So what happens is that halfhearted religious people, people who do not keep the tenets of their faith firmly at heart, quickly buckle to the sentiments of their irreligious neighbors and lawmakers, and join the bandwagon of criticisms against religious people and their commitment to their faith. They are the ones that are increasing the volume against the opening of worship centers – publishing statements from men like Pastor Donnie McClurkin, with no concern as to knowing what McClurkin truly believes. McClurklin may be a pastor but he might not understand the intricacies of his faith and thus his pandering to the sentiments of the irreligious.

We must consider the fact that a pandemic like this one is not only novel but that no one actually knows the best way of dealing with it. New theories of what we are dealing with is emerging every day and one of the things people are discovering is that a total lockdown is simply not practical. If everyone is being allowed out, why would the world then frown at worship places opening too? What is clear before us is that this disease is going to be with us for a very long time. And anyone who is serious at all would realize that a continuous lockdown for the next two or more years is actually not practical. The earlier the world comes out of its shell and faces this disease the better.

Another thing that we might want to consider is this: there is no way the irreligious will be able to label religion as essential when in fact they do not even subscribe to religion in the first place. Their very profession of irreligion is saying that they regard religion as non-essential. On the other hand, those who choose religion think that religion is essential. So, who would decide on the way forward for the two groups?

In the United States of America a certain church in Phoenix, Arizona, the Apologia Church, never once closed their door of worship. They have held worship gathering since the pandemic broke out. They could do this with more liberty because the cases of Coronavirus infection in their city were about the lowest in the USA and they believed they could put in modalities to ensure social distancing and hygiene during worship. More importantly, this church thinks that the religious world was too hasty in falling in line with government admonition for places of worship to shut down. They weighed the pros and cons, and decided to continue to fellowship. Besides, this gathering of believers, a reformed church, is committed to a tenet of Christian worship that most churches have paid very little attention to. This is the matter of the Lord’s Supper. This church takes the communion every Lord’s Day and they are convinced that there is no way one can do this when the church is on lockdown. Thankfully they have carried on worship up until this time, even as the debate on church gatherings continues.

While I cannot speak authoritatively for mosques and synagogues, I can say confidently that churches that are deciding to gather together to worship are doing so with the utmost sense of responsibility. The Christian Church has always, in every age, led in the matter of community development and public safety. The modern era in most countries was brought about by Christian influences. Christians influenced education, government, law and so on all around the world. Africa would not be what it is today if not for Christian missions. There is no reason why anyone should think that churches would today be the fulcrum on which the pandemic will continue. My argument is that if places of business are opening, markets and liquor stores are opening, then by all means, the places of worship should open. Besides this, places of worship are gathering where people not only listen to God’s word but also have the opportunity to plead with him collectively to intervene in the nations of the earth. Like Trump said, we need more prayers in these times and not less.

I am using this opportunity also to appeal to the Nigerian government to also begin to allow places of worship to open up. I look forward to my own local assembly, the Chapel of the Resurrection, University of Ibadan, opening. It would be a wonderful re-union with God’s people, as we rejoice like the Psalmist who said “I was glad when they say let us go to the house of the Lord.” While the church building is not the church, the people who gather in it make up the church and it would be wonderful to be back worshipping with God’s people again. Any politician, government policy, law or idea that would restore the gathering of God’s people in these days of lockdown is a blessed idea. And while the irreligious may think it is not important, we think it is not only essential but also might serve as the very means of bringing an end to the whole pandemic. Why, you may ask? It is because the church, the place of worship, is the light of the world. We dispel darkness and this includes the darkness of a period like this one.

MuttleyLaff:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/54/cc/9f/54cc9ff76bb14696978fe7ecea0cc2b3.jpg

IceLip:
Hmmmmmmmm

Righteousness89:
Awesome

petra1:
Nice one Church is not individual. Church is assembly, the body of christ need to assemble without hindrance.

MuttleyLaff:
Kei144, let's confirm we are signing the same hymn.
1/ What colour skin (i.e. skin complexion) were the assumed Israelites that migrated down the Nile across over to the west African coasts et cetera please?
2/ The dates don't add up, when you say:
"... Judeans moved down to Egypt in the 6th century BC. They apparently reached Igboland in 9th/10th century AD. It wasn't even the original Judeans that left Judea for Egypt that migrated, but their descendants that were born in Africa. The Jews that migrated from Cush (South Sudan) were born in Cush ..."

The dates are upside down, so which is which, I ask kei144?

Kei144, fyi, in their first defeat, the Israelites were taken captive by the Assyrian and forced to resettled among 120 other nations spread across the vast Assyrian Empire, hence how the phrase the Ten Lost Tribes aka lost sheep of Israel came about. There were no escapes, they were either killed or taken prisoner to be exiled, so I don't understand you now saying prior to 70 AD, an Israelites migration, in the 8th century had already begun, when in actual fact their migration didn't start until after Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD (i.e. the 1st century)

Similarly, in around the 6th century, when the Babylonians attacked the Southern kingdom, House of Judah, there were no escapees, the crop of the society who weren't killed were as exiles taking to the Babylonian royal courts, only to return back later to build the second temple et cetera. You haven't thought this through properly kei144 because the Israelites easily could pass for an Egyptian or Eithopian, but not except the Israelite has been mongrelised will he/she pass for a black skinned West African.

By the way I thought Ramsey Noah was Lebanese nah. Anyway, he's by the side lines. Back to the Israelites proper, your historical facts are wack and not kosher bro. There are no historians ever make mention of Israelites/Jews presence beyond the Nile earlier than the 1400s

Yes it does Kei144 and fyi, Cush in that verse, is not referring to modern Ethiopia (i.e. called Abyssinia, in the old), but the area along the Nile just south of Egypt, you can see in the snapshot, ancient Nubia, underlined in red. They settled there in the 5th century. The pasted map has all the verifiable dates.

I'll paste a link for below for you to see, review and even use the magnify/expand feature on it, if necessary to see it larger.
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-02add098486b361b836d6799999b94d4

Kei144:
June Is the Month of Revealing!

Kathi Pelton
Fredericksburg, Virginia

I believe that we are at the end of a long night, where we went to sleep only seeing signs of spring and signs of the budding of flowers, but as the dawn is beginning to awaken on this quarantine, and we are able to come face to face with one another once again...we will see that the Bride has blossomed!

I love to watch the spring bulbs as they come up out of the ground and the buds appear. I am filled with anticipation for the unveiling of the beauty hidden within. Then each year I will go to bed one night with only buds and the next morning wake up to see that they have blossomed! It is like a prince came and kissed each one during the night and they opened their eyes and arose to display their beauty and to release their fragrance.

This is what is happening with the Bride! Before this global shut down we were a bud just waiting to be kissed by the Son and awakened. But suddenly, the night is coming to a close and we have received our kiss and are in full bloom. We are in the newness of morning.

Get ready to be intoxicated by the fragrance of the Bride and her Bridegroom. The beauty of oneness has blossomed, and it will not just last for a short season; this garden is an eternal one with no end.

Can you see the dawn awakening? Can you smell the fragrance of what has blossomed? Can you feel the anticipation of the Father to reveal the Bride as she has been prepared?

May is the month of blossoming and June is the month of revealing—get ready for a holy intoxication of beauty!

https://www.elijahlist.com/words/display_word.html?ID=23717#word-truncate

The first seal of Revelation 6 will be opened in June, by full moon. Manifestation of the sons of God will commence; starting with the firstfruits, the 144,000 Israelites.

Maximus69:
If you think there is no argument, then it's fine!
Whatever anyone (including JWs) says about speaking in tongues is correct and there shouldn't be any need of exchange since each person will stick to whatever his/her religion practices anyway!

But as for we Jehovah's Witnesses, count us out when you're not ready to subscribe to our opinion on the concept!

Maximus69:
We only believe (trust) in FAITH that is yielding PRACTICAL BENEFITS Sir! James 2:26

MuttleyLaff:
"²⁷Now My soul is troubled, and what shall I say?
‘Father, save Me from this hour’? No, it is for this purpose that I have come to this hour.
²⁸Father, glorify Your name!” Then a voice came from heaven:
“I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again.”
²⁹The crowd standing there heard it and said that it had thundered.
Others said that an angel had spoken to Him"
- John 12:27-29

Of course only Apostle Paul would have understood the voice, and this because or from the fact that, he speaks tongues/languages more than any of his contemporaries do. Often times, people like to put unfounded mysticism spin(s) on things they don't seem to understand or what puzzles them

Anyone could be an angel, we have celestial/extra-terrestrial beings as angels and we have a terrestrial/earth based being aka human beings as angels. Angels are messengers, are anyone sent out do do the bidding of God or to deliver message(s), announcement(s), proclamation(s) et cetera. The Angel of the Lord, wrestling with Jacob, was God. The Angel of the Lord with accompanied two other angels, was God visiting Abraham. Angel of the Lord is an Avatar of God.

I expect Jesus to have communicated to Apostle Paul, in a language or spoken in tongue, possibly only him alone would understand

1/ What sort of angel voice would this be that Jesus allegedly spoke with?
2/ Why couldn't it be just a simple, nondescript, ordinary and normal Jesus voice?
3/ Was the voice at John 12:28, that said: "“I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again.”" spoken IN AN ANGEL VOICE?
4/ What tongue/language does God use when personally communicating with you?

Maximus69:
You asked me about my own faith Sir.

So it's left to you to talk about yours.

Maximus69:
My God speaks to all my brothers and sisters globally in the JW language/tongue.

Maximus69:
That's why everyone can testify to the PERFECT understanding amongst us throughout the earth! Zephaniah 3:9

Maximus69:
You guys are arguing about speaking in tongues while i have concentrated on the BENEFITS of the concept.

Maximus69:
Language is the gift of speech God gave intelligent creatures (angels or humans) the purpose is for mutual understanding in God's Organization! John 17:20-23

That's the greatest evidence of God's presence in the midst of his worshipers! Isaiah 2:2-4

JW language!

Myer:
I just edited my response.

Your explanation is flawed because it was not the soldiers who were recounting the event here but the same Paul who stated that they heard a voice in Acts 9:7 also stating that they did not hear the voice in Acts 22:9.

But I understand you will go to any length to try to defend the bible. But would do the same for other religious books such as the Quran if they made they same goof?

Myer:
Maybe we need to juxtapose both verses for you to know that your interpretation is flawed.

Acts 9:7
And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

Acts 22:9
And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.

The contradiction is inexcusable sir.
He was not speaking of understanding here.
As you rightly said, Luke was a medical expert. Makes you question his attention to details though.

He said they heard a voice in Acts 9:7 but then said they did not hear a voice in Acts 22:9

He was not in any of these verses referring to their comprehension of the voice but that they did not hear the voice at all in Acts 22:9.

This brings to mind the baptism of Christ, where he saw the heaven open and the voice of God saying he is truly the Son in whom he is pleased. Yet only Christ heard it and no one else, maybe only John the baptist. And several other divine communication between God and Christ.

Although I'm still trying to understand why you decided to compare me to Caiaphas.lol come on, am I that bad?
They say God can speak through any vessel. He even spoke through a donkey right?

Maximus69:
Please how do you comprehend this when a Yoruba man say~

Mi o gbo nkan to nso

loosely translated

I don't hear what he's saying

Of course what this means

I don't UNDERSTAND what he is saying
That doesn't mean he never heard anything!

I could recollect back in school when one of my mates asked our English teacher (Briton) "do you hear Yoruba?"

Mr Franz responded enthusiastically "Yes"

The girl spoke Yoruba and asked Mr Franz to translate, surprisingly he said "i heard what you said but you never asked if i understand the language!

So don't forget that the writers only had information to pass across to us, we are to bring it home by meditating on similar occurences in our own environment to grasp what exactly they meant by those writings!

Myer:
Actually in yoruba there is a difference.

Mi o gbo could be interpreted as I didnt hear you or I didn't understand you.

But I heard a voice but I did not understand in Yoruba is;

Mo gbo ohun sugbon ko ye mi.

You see how these are 2 distinct scenarios?

Don't try to interprete the scriptures to suit your meaning.
Interprete what the scripture itself means.

It is obviously an inexcusable contradiction.

There's more if you care to see.

MuttleyLaff:
It trips up, a lot, quite a few of our Muslim and Atheist brothers/sisters and it leaves me laughing very hard. On the face of it, they appear contradictory and so you find some argumentative Muslim and Atheist brothers/sisters come up waving those two verses about crying blue murder, that they are inconsistencies, when they aren't, lmao. Doing a thorough or detailed review of the verses would have saved them from slipping on that banana skin.

The construct used in the two verses, we also often use it too, when conversing in Yoruba.

Case in point 1:
"Ẹ ku irọle, sir". Though you heard me, but you, pretending not to have heard, prolly from still nursing an earlier vex, will respond "Mi o gbọ ẹ"

Loosely translated means:
"Good evening, sir". Though you heard me, but you, pretending not to have heard, prolly from still nursing an earlier vex, will respond "I don't hear you"

Case in point 2:
"Good evening, sir". Though you loud and clearly heard me, but since you don't understand nor speak English, will in Yoruba, honestly and truthfully say "Mi o gbọ ẹ" ( i.e. ''I don't understand you'')

Maximus69:
(1) God is the one who gave intelligent creatures (angels or humans) the gift of speech, while angels had their own (higher than man's) humans were also given. Angels could easily grasp our own since they're superior when talking about the likeness of God because they're also spirits. Humans can't grasp their own because we are lesser beings, so Jesus spoke their language but granted only Paul the ability to discern what he said!

Maximus69:
(2) Because those traveling along with Paul were sent on a mission 'to arrest Christians', Jesus need to communicate with Paul (his main target) in a strange language so that none of them might know Paul's next move, note that Paul was only leading the team, so after Jesus had taken Paul away from the team, the Pharisees were highly disappointed and provoked as their best trained scholar now embraced Christianity (the group they wanted dead).

Maximus69:
(3)Of course but the understanding was only granted to his closest confidants while others just noticed that a strange voice probably that of an angel (as they reasoned) spoke with him!

Maximus69:
(4)JW language!

Acehart:
Acts 22:9 And those who were with me saw the light, to be sure, but did not understand the voice of the One who was speaking to me.

Acts 9:7 The men who traveled with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.

These are what I observed:

1. Paul and his escorts heard the voice.
2. Only Paul understood the voice.
3. Paul conversed with the One with the voice in a language Paul understood.

Points 1 and 2, would be the points you would want us to speak about.

Acehart:
Firstly, Paul and his escorts were not saved men

Acehart:
Secondly, Paul’s understanding only came as a privilege so that he would not say, ‘my righteousness bought the privilege’. This privilege to let one in and cast the others out is a mystery. It seems to me that the escorts heard the language of the voice but didn’t understand the message; I say this because the same destination the voice ordered Paul to go to, is the same destination the escorts led Paul to without hesitation.

1 Corinthians 1:18: For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

I have quoted this verse because the misunderstanding of the escorts may not have arisen because the speech of the One with the voice was rendered in a foreign tongue but because the message didn’t sound reasonable to them

Acehart:
The only part they could fathom was the part when Paul spoke and the voice said, “Get up and go on into Damascus, and there you will be told of all that has been appointed for you to do.” I’m almost sure that the privilege of understanding came to them when instruction was given to Paul in plain language - which they also heard.

Acehart:
Do you know that the main character in the story about Joseph and his brothers was Judah. If those events were made into a movie, the title would be “Redemption”. Only a trained eye would see that Joseph wasn’t the main character.

Acehart:
You still haven’t told me your (new) MVPs

Acehart:
Acts 22:9 And those who were with me saw the light, to be sure, but did not understand the voice of the One who was speaking to me.

Acts 9:7 The men who traveled with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.

These are what I observed:

1. Paul and his escorts heard the voice.
2. Only Paul understood the voice.
3. Paul conversed with the One with the voice in a language Paul understood.

Points 1 and 2, would be the points you would want us to speak about.

Acehart:
Firstly, Paul and his escorts were not saved men

Acehart:
Secondly, Paul’s understanding only came as a privilege so that he would not say, ‘my righteousness bought the privilege’. This privilege to let one in and cast the others out is a mystery. It seems to me that the escorts heard the language of the voice but didn’t understand the message; I say this because the same destination the voice ordered Paul to go to, is the same destination the escorts led Paul to without hesitation.

1 Corinthians 1:18: For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

I have quoted this verse because the misunderstanding of the escorts may not have arisen because the speech of the One with the voice was rendered in a foreign tongue but because the message didn’t sound reasonable to them.

[quote author=Acehart post=89934617]The only part they could fathom was the part when Paul spoke and the voice said, “Get up and go on into Damascus, and there you will be told of all that has been appointed for you to do.” I’m almost sure that the privilege of understanding came to them when instruction was given to Paul in plain language - which they also heard.

Acehart:
Do you know that the main character in the story about Joseph and his brothers was Judah. If those events were made into a movie, the title would be “Redemption”. Only a trained eye would see that Joseph wasn’t the main character.

Acehart:
You still haven’t told me your (new) MVPs

Acehart:
Of course you know my answer. Even in my dreams, God communicates with me in symbols I understand and tongues I understand.

Acehart:
I spoke of the angelic tongues because the Jews were really religious people and anything to make them stand out religiously, they’ll hip hop into it. The writer of Hebrews wrote extensively to them that Christ isn’t an angel. So you see how they held angels in high esteem. If it comes to angels, anything and everything will suffice.

Goshen360:
It looks like we might have to slow down and ask ourselves some questions in order to learn or unlearn....depending what angle we're looking at.

So the question I was asking myself is, what's exactly is this unknown tongues or language of angel.

2. What or why do I need to speak language of Angels for if I'm not praying or speaking to Angels?

3. I think there's a misconception or misunderstanding or misinterpretation of the word "unknown" in 1 cor 14v2.

4. I think MuttleyLaff explained it and I also did some extraction and insertion into the whole of 1 cor 14 and its clearer to me now....

5. I did my study insertion AND ALSO extract that word "unknown" and asked questions while studying and that made the whole 1 cor 14 clearer...You might want to do same.

Cc: hoopernikao

Finallydead:
2.) The first thing we should ask is what language did angels speak before the creation of humans. Certainly not human language which came to be in this recent Adamic age.

Finallydead:
Does this mean we can't hear them in our own language? No. But it does mean after coming down to our level to communicate, they would return to their standard language in heaven in keeping with their nativity.

Finallydead:
[s]Now, understand that we have been made sharers in the Holy Spirit hence tasting (because it's only a small measure, more like an imperfect idea) of powers of the age to come (Heb 6:5) or of the divine nature(2 Pet 1:4). Our spirits are the dimension of our being currently carrying this Divine Image/Character as his own nature while our souls retain our corrupt human nature(the flesh). Gal 5:17

The concept of the gifts in 1 Cor 12 is that they are MANIFESTATIONS of the spirit(1 Cor12:7), hence a physical expression of your spirit's nature- things that can never be done by your human nature. Everytime your spirit manifests, its like getting freedom from your flesh which is always in expression and subduing it. It's a victory/liberation for it.

The word of knowledge is like the hearing or seeing (if in visions) of your spirit. The word of wisdom similar but with the understanding hence also expressing it's brain power. Gifts of healing are the expression of divine power in your spirit, also resident in angels to restore creation. So also tongues is the speaking of your spirit in its own native divine language while translation of tongues and prophecy is going further than that to speak God's divine words, not in the spirit's native divine language but like we would hear angels, in our human language for others' sake, in the spirit of true love.

All these are a win for your spirit over the flesh.[/s]

Finallydead:
3.)We seem to be back-pedalling. All these questions were already treated in my previous posts on here.
I said from the onset(https://www.nairaland.com/5860057/should-speak-tongues-right/4#89700832?_e_pi_=7%2CPAGE_ID10%2C9147324460), there's nothing like unknown tongues. It's either known to God (and angels) or men. The word unknown was added by the translators. But removing it wouldn't change any point I've already made on this thread.

Finallydead:
4. I don't think Muttleylaff has explained anything that addresses the real problems on ground.

Finallydead:
What he clearly did though, like he's done to me in another thread, was evade two simple questions I asked that if answered will help clear up 1 Cor 14.

Finallydead:
I was then hoping Acehart would answer it when he also quoted me but well, he got stuck trying to pick whose soprano is better between MC and Satan, lol. Apart from cricket, they seem to be learning a lot from each other, lol. (Easy, easy, Mutt, that's with an "innocent" snarky chuckle, like from Muttley the dastardly dog o, to lighten up the atmosphere, lol)

Finallydead:
These were the harmless questions.

You said so much while avoiding my clear questions.
1.) If were all gathered like as now in person, discussing this issue in fellowship in English. What does God gain in giving Acehart a Korean tongue if no one here including Ace understands it. Couldn't He have received the prayer/praise in Acehart's native (English) language. Why change from native to Korean if none understands Korean.

Finallydead:
2.) If at least any e.g. hooper alone understands Korean, then we have scenario A, where God gave the Korean tongue because He was sending a message to hooper. Tell me then, why in scenario A above, Paul would advise that if none can interpret from Korean-English, Acehart should keep silence and no longer speak the word for hooper who understands Korean and would have been blessed as Paul advised in 1 Cor 14:28 and all through, to keep silence?

Finallydead:
So if you answer 1 and 2, you would see that they both can't be the situation Paul was addressing, hence with all other indication in 1Cor14, like that even the speaker's mind is unfruitful (v14) and all, Paul was speaking of non-human tongues which profits NONE except the speaker's spirit( and not mind btw)

You also ignored what I said about the sign of tongues to unbelievers which clearly shows that it is not to be understood by humans. Don't skip these.

Finallydead:
Btw, Mutt, that was a really funny meme as usual with you, laughed hard. But I'm yet to know what "shalaye" means. You must be a Yoruba, I guess cos that's definitely Yoruba language.

Finallydead:
Hoopernikao, you pointed out that Myer, (in the spirit of humility) has changed his initial stance on 1 Cor 14 being understandable tongues for gentiles and now calls them non-human tongues but you are yourself yet to accept that there are also human tongues as in Acts 2 and several believers' experience today.
How do you ever plan to reconcile the scriptures without accepting? Just do it already, nobody is holding you down. Show us your whole theology on tongues and then maybe we will agree with you. We're not going to all agree with you before you can do this. Having established that 1 Cor 14 is non-human language, kindly show us what you wanna do with 1 Cor 13:1, since I've already shown that Paul listed ONLY gifts from 1 Cor 12 in 1 Cor 13:1-3 without a single hyperbole, like Mutt would believe.

Maximus69:
... the voice Jesus used in speaking with Paul was that of an angel who spoke in tongues only for the one concerned to grasp but if not Paul himself none of those traveling with him could interpret what Jesus said to Paul! 1 Corinthians 14:13

God bless you!

Maximus69:
The Act of Apostle was recorded by a disciple named Luke!

His style of writing is peculiar to that of a pharmacist, always particular with medications and specific when talking about illnesses.

Here Luke wasn't writing this story as an eyewitness of the event but as one penning down what he heard from Paul who was directly involved in the incident.

So in a nutshell, Luke is saying those with Paul were just observers of the event but they can't say specifically what happened to Paul.

They saw the light but since the one speaking from the light had nothing to do with them it never affected their sight the way it did to Paul.

They heard a voice but can't specifically say what transpired between the one speaking and Paul with whom Jesus spoke!
It's good you brought this up and i must confess that it's God's holy spirit that spur you to bring up the issue on this particular thread because the voice Jesus used in speaking with Paul was that of an angel who spoke in tongues only for the one concerned to grasp but if not Paul himself none of those traveling with him could interpret what Jesus said to Paul! 1 Corinthians 14:13

God bless you!

MuttleyLaff:
"¹Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the disciples of the Lord. He approached the high priest
²and requested letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any men or women belonging to the Way, he could bring them as prisoners to Jerusalem.
³As Saul drew near to Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him.
⁴He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?”
⁵“Who are You, Lord?” Saul asked.
“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” He replied.
⁶“Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
⁷The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless. They heard the voice but did not see anyone"
- Acts 9:1-7

"¹Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you.
²(And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,)
³I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.
⁴And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.
⁵As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.
⁶And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.
⁷And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
⁸And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.
⁹And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of Him that spake to me."
- Acts 22:1-9

Let's jazz up the conversation a little with Acts 9:7 and Acts 22:9

Acehart:
I’d like to speak about the “tongues of angels”. I had written that the synagogue in Corinth essentially read the Tanakh - the Pentateuch, the Prophets and the Writings. These Hebrew texts weren’t written in Gentiles languages; they were exclusively written in Jewish tongues. Some of the books didn’t make it to our Bible but we see someone like Peter referring to the Book of Enoch, one of the apocrypha.

Just for information: Angelic tongues referred to sung praise in Second Temple period Jewish books. Songs of the Sabbath Sacrifice is the principal source for angelic tongues. The Songs describe worship around the throne of God in the heavenly realms. Reference is made to angelic tongues. Throughout the thirteen songs there is everything ranging from accounts of how the angels lead their prayer service in the temple on high to detailed descriptions of the inner throne room where the presence of God and the other god-like beings reside.

In 1 Corinthians 14:7, Paul speaks of a “stringed” instrument - the harp. In one of the sources of angelic tongues hymn books, The pseudepigraphical Testament of Job, Job gives one of his daughters a stringed instrument. In verse 15, he speaks of “singing with the spirit, and singing with the mind”; and giving thanks in verse 17. (Psalms of singing and thanksgiving tongues are sections of the Songs of the Sabbath Sacrifice)

If there was a deep yearning by the Gentiles to display the “spiritual gift“ of knowing the angelic tongue or the Hebrew tongue illustration of how Angels speak rather, would not the meaning verse 1 Corinthians 14:23 be clearer as all the citizens of Corinth who were members in the church at Corinth all speak in Jewish tongue and a fellow citizen (an unbeliever) enters the assembly and see such a manifestation and declare his fellow citizens mad?

Acehart:
You still haven’t told me your (new) MVPs