₦airaland Forum

Finallydead:
Greetings Acehart,
Thanks again for the mention and nice display of transparency and character back there. Tbt is I'm in agreement with hoopernikao's understanding of kainos and neos. In fact, he has handled that aspect quite well. It's just the plain truth that any greek scholar will tell about those two words. Anyone who is in disagreement either needs to do further study with greek lexicons or is just in plain denial.
I also agree with his understanding of "laeg" in Is28:11 and that was exactly Paul's point in 1Cor14:21-22
The problem however is we've spent too much on that and are yet to get into the meat of tongues. If you guys won't agree on that. Then maybe y'all could move on.

Hey hoopernikao, if your wish is actually to get to 1Cor14, you could just do so already. You don't have to get everyone to agree to make your point nor to get distracted your reputation.
A good teacher must be able to maintain focus on his points and not be derailed by all that.
Hey Mutt, it seems you're combining two different spiritual experiences into one.
I can totally relate to your experience and you're right to say that such groaning is praying in the Holy Spirit i.e. the Holy Spirit groaning/sighing through you WITHOUT words as per Rom8:26, a quite unpleasant experience that releases probably the greatest spiritual power though.

Finallydead:
But praying in tongues is another kind of praying- your human spirit(NOT Holy Spirit) praying with vocalised, distinct angelic words.(1Cor14:14) A very refreshing experience on the contrary.
I already touched on speaking in tongues in my initial post.

Goshen360:
No, I'm saying I understand your perspective and interpretation in the light of the words usage in question and hence, you threw more light on the word usage.

So questions further asked above for you to now put those explanations in perspective to what I further asked. I get your understanding of neos and kainos now though.

You know I'm in a learning mood and just a student learning in this thread/discussion.

Goshen360:
Well, I think we've been having a mature and healthy conversation so far and you yourself will have to slow down on slightly loosed hard words used to MuttleyLaff so we can finish up in good faith.

Let's continue to your outlines and rebuttal from others. Also, I need you to finish up on that Acts 2 - Another/Other Tongues because I got some questions for you depending on your explanation on what actually happened in Acts 2....I'm "assuming" you have a different interpretation of what happened but I'll let you explain first before I conclude if my assumption is right or wrong.

traihit:
2012 it is ...was just wondering why the album fits more now than 2012.

Acehart:
Acts 12:21-23
On an appointed day Herod, having put on his royal apparel, took his seat on the rostrum and began delivering an address to them. The people kept crying out, "The voice of a god and not of a man!" And immediately an angel of the Lord struck him because he did not give God the glory, and he was eaten by worms and died.

Earlier, we saw some synonyms of the word “Language”. They include: speech, dialect, jargon, terminology, lingo, vernacular, word, style, and sound. Other synonyms include: Command of language, accent, voice, vocabulary, word, sound, mother-tongue, sound, expression, terminology, lingo, idiom, style, enunciation, manner of speech etc.

In the text above, King Herod gave an address to a people in their language (mother-tongue or lingo); and the people who heard his address yelled: “The voice of a god and not of a man!”

Did he really have a voice like a god? The Greek word for the English word “voice” is “phōnḗ”, from which we have the English word “phonetics”. In the Greek, phōnḗ means “the speech of a tongue or language”. It also expresses the way a speech’ language is enunciated.

Herod’s language style, expression, articulation, command of the mother tongue, and manner of speech elicited such a response - “The voice of a god”. Let’s not forget the Assyrian stammering (mockery).

The following are synonyms of mockery: ridicule, derision, jeering, contempt and scorn, to name a few. “Ridicule” means: the subjection of someone or something to contemptuous and dismissive language or behaviour. (Oxford dictionary). The English translation for “mockery” is indeed the same as the Hebrew translation for “stammering”. The Assyrian’s manner of speech, expression, enunciation, and command of Judean lingo were the focus and intention of first part of the prophecy of Isaiah; so it is the intention of Luke in expressing this event.

However, this isn’t my focus; my focus is the cause of Herod’s death: ‘he did not give God the glory’; he didn’t give GLORY, doxa, to God. This word then drives me to a part of Paul’s second letter to the Corinthians - 2 Corinthians 3.

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In 2 Corinthians 3, we see perhaps the only passage of the scriptures where the words “language” (glôssa) and “new” (Kainos or καινός) kiss each other. It is the only passage in the scriptures that contrasts extensively the difference between the “new” (Kainos or καινός) with respect to “old” (palaios). Please let’s juxtapose the characteristics of the new (Kainos) testament (Diathíki) and the old (palaios) testament (Diathíki) with the hope that its applicability is universal throughout the scriptures where Kainos and palaios are mentioned with regards to the gospel of Christ:

1. The Kainos Diathíki produces life. (v.6)
2. The Palaios Diathíki kills (v.6).
3. The Palaios Diathíki had brightness and splendor but it’s brightness dulls and its splendor is fading. (v.7)
4. Kainos Diathíki’s brightness and splendor is excellent and abides forever. (v.7-8,11).
5. The Palaios Diathíki is limited and therefore terminated (v.9,11).
6. The Kainos Diathíki is abundant and abides.
7. The Palaios Diathíki is hopeless (v.12).
8. The Kainos Diathíki gives one hope (v.12).
9. The Palaios Diathíki hinders one from the knowledge of God and hence, makes one’s heart grow hard. (v.14).
10. The Kainos Diathíki makes one fruitful in the knowledge of God (v.18).
11. The Palaios Diathíki condemns all men and has the opinion that all men as worthless. (v.7-9).
12. The Kainos Diathíki gives all men a sense of worth and it dignifies one; and it clothes one with splendor or righteousness. (v.7-11).
13. The Palaios Diathíki dulls one’s mind. (v.15)
14. The Kainos Diathíki transforms one progressively into the image of God’s glory, Christ. (v.18).
15. In the Palaios Diathíki, there is bondage (v.17).
16. In the Kainos Diathíki, there is freedom. (v.17)
17. In the Palaios Diathíki, people focused on Moses (v.7, 13-15).
18. In the Kainos Diathíki, men will look to Christ (v.14,18)
Because of the qualities of the Kainos Diathíki, Paul says his language (manner of speech) is with plainness of speech (language) or fearless confidence. Therefore, the new tongue of Mark 16:17 is a manner of speech (doxa), boldness, which the Apostles will turn people’s faces away from Moses and sets them on Christ and His glory. How fitting is the language for a bunch of fearful men who went into hiding when the Master was captured and crucified?

they began to speak the word of God with boldness (Acts 4:31)
cc: Kobojunkie, Muttleylaff, Finallydead, Toyorlee1, Nebes, Maximus69, Eulalia, Vickydankal, Goshen360, PharmaGirl

MuttleyLaff:
I say, in the age of information, ignorance is a choice

I dont need assistance to cover up nothing. I was impressed someone else is rightly dividing the word of truth and correcting your biased, erroneous or unfair interpretation of Romans 8:26-27, so drop your negative comment(s) already, unless you're jealous, brother connectikut89 is better informed than you are on this subject

The gloves are about comiing off. You asked for it

"When Jesus therefore saw her weeping,
and the Jews also weeping which came with her,
He groaned in the spirit, and was troubled,"
- John 11:33

"Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities:
for we know not what we should pray for as we ought:
but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."
- Rom 8:26

Rom 8:26 and John 11:33 for that matter, arent verses that support Jesus spoke in tongues.

John 11:33 is a combination of groaning and display of empathy and not a proof that Jesus spoke in tongues

Rom 8:26, is not speaking in tongue. It is, to some degree similar to John 11:33 above, (e.g. moaning or groaning expression coming from within induced the spirit) and so equally like John 11:33, Rom 8:26 too, doesnt qualify to serve as proof, that Jesus actually spoke in tongue

Moaning or any other sounds made during or in the heat of passion and groaning done to convey pain, despair, pleasure et cetera
or any other sounds made when cornered and backed against a concrete wall isnt speaking in tongues

By the way, though old habit are difficult to die, its close to 14 years now, that I've managed to curtail doing this gibberish or nonsense
and I deliberately said, managed, because it sometimes wants to subconsciously rear its ugly head and slip back in

Mind you, I do groaning in the spirit (i.e. that's where & when applicable) but dont anymore do gibberish. Aside the different kinds of groaning out of pain, out of despair, out of pleasure etcetera, there is a distinction) between groaning in the spirit and talking gibberish (i.e. particularly in regards to when praying

Jesus groaned in the spirit (i.e. John 11:33 and John 11:38) but it wasn't the sort of gibberish thing we have and see in modern believers settings or gatherings

As said, I, too, when praying intensely do experience groaning in the spirit
- it usually is making deep inarticulate sound(s) or grunts during praying, out of pain, anguish, desperation or some strong emotion

I strongly want to believe, its similar to, if not on par with that, Hannah style of praying (i.e. 1 Samuel 1:10)

Pray, you aren't cornered that bad, that you need to resort to groaning when praying. It's out of exasperation, that groaning comes out. Jesus, out of exasperation too, groaned, at sight of Lazarus dead/sleeping

I can go more, on praying in the spirit and praying with the spirit, but will pause, so as not to, cause information overload

Again, the three recorded evidences of speaking in tongues in the bible, occurred for a purpose and/or to serve that purpose, and each instance of the three recorded speaking in tongues happened with articulated utterances, that were, coherent enough to other present audiences admitting and understanding the spoken tongues. For the three occurrences in the Bible , refer to Acts 2:8, Acts 10:46 and Acts 19:60

"For Jews demand miraculous signs (i.e. ask for signs)
and Greeks ask for wisdom (i.e. philiosophy)"
- 1 Corinthians 1:22

"So you see that speaking in tongues is a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers.
Prophecy, however, is for the benefit of believers, not unbelievers."
- 1 Corinthians 14:22

For all the 3 recorded times, speaking in other tongues occurred in the bible,
it is visibly noted that, it happened each time, for the benefit of unbelieving Jews

For any that might have been misinformed, it is a well documented truth, as seen in 1 Corinthians 14:22 above
that speaking in tongues is not for believers, rather it is used as a sign for unbelievers (i.e. 1 Corinthians 1:22a)

Petra\1, the primary purpose for speaking in tongues, was/is not for use as a talisman, neither to be used as quicker or easier mystical shortcuts to prayers or worship. Nor is it's purpose, to be used as a form of means to confuse the devil or demons from understanding whats been prayed

But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,
- Jude 1:20

Jude 1:20 has nothing to do with speaking in tongues but means what it says out of the tin
(i.e. it means literally pray in the Holy Spirit, as in like one of those ''thy will be done'' prayers)

Kobojunkie:
If Paul meant to say "pray the will of God", I believe he would have simply said that.

Kobojunkie:
I asked to be taught what it meant to pray in the Spirit just yesterday, and what came out were the groanings, so I think I will stick with that as the meaning for a bit longer. Jesus didn't say anything about groanings, but He did speak of how the Spirit of God will lead us into all truths.

Kobojunkie:
Given that the Holy Spirit, who we received after Jesus died, is the seal of the Covenant we have in Christ, I think it is safe to assume that Jesus didn't need to groan or pray in the Spirit to show us how it had to be done.

Kobojunkie:
The Spirit of God after all is our teacher and our guide through this Christian adventure. He is all capable afterall He is God Himself.

Still the message from Paul to the Ephesians was that they pray in the Spirit at all times.

hoopernikao:
[s]You are so swift to pressing out scriptures that you know nothing about. Don't you read at all.

You really need to start learning how to learn and unlearn. Maybe you can start by removing your hands from the keyboard and start reading more. You have demonstrated here over and over again that you have no single knowledge of even John 3:16 and there is so much to learn and unlearn for you.

Every scripture you provided in all instance here showed you understand nothing about the Bible. When you don't even know what is referred to as letters, but quick to be typing up and down. Isn't that sad.

If you can miss it on this, you can miss it on anything and anyone dependent on your knowledge is in danger of hell. A so called believer that can't differentiate to know that God's words are light to him, the instructions are direction to him will surely call it law. Laziness to study has taking its toll on you.

You need someone to help you by taking your right of access to your uneasy fingers on the internet so that you can start to do more learning and unlearning. That is what can save you.

@Ace\hart, I guess he is your brother, either from this end or the other . Help him by replacing his phone with a physical bible, he needs it more and you will be delivering him from his blasphemy.[/s]

hoopernikao:
[s]Your lies will find you out. When you have nothing to say again, you will surely result to lying and manipulating my words Or is it an ability to read well.

This is what I said. Maybe you should read it 10 more times to understand.
"AS AN ASIDE:
I guess i didnt let you know from beginning my stand on scriptural doctrine and practice. Please note this is my believe in bible explanation. I believe absolutely in the authority of the scriptures, I mean absolutely (100000%).

If you show me anything and i can see it written as such in the bible, that is final and will make correction immediately. But trying to show me what isnt written or want me to go by reading meaning to the authors intent when it isnt documented.

I will rather lay my life down than compromise the scriptures on that. The written word is above all"

Point to where I spoke about not respecting the intent of the author. You don't read at all. If you so, you will know that not less than 4 times in this thread I have mentioned that all interpretation is to reveal the authors intent and stay with it. It will take comprehension issue to believe that authors intent can be known when you don't honor the authors word, usage of words or his letter.

Is it not obvious to you how you have dishonored the scriptures and its author just to drive a point? who between us is not honoring the intent of the author.

Below is written by you to Kobo\junkie

Your language to bible author is very sad.
You need a class on honor serious. It is Paul you mentioned just like that? This is serious.

You should know that giving false witness is unchristian but I won't be surprised as you have even done that to the scriptures by calling it letter of the law.

Did you actually read that before pressing send? I almost want to start seeing you as an unbeliever when I read that.

I hope you will prove otherwise after you start reading patiently and properly. [/s]

Kobojunkie:
If Paul meant to say "pray the will of God", I believe he would have simply said that.

I asked to be taught what it meant to pray in the Spirit just yesterday, and what came out were the groanings, so I think I will stick with that as the meaning for a bit longer. Jesus didn't say anything about groanings, but He did speak of how the Spirit of God will lead us into all truths.

Given that the Holy Spirit, who we received after Jesus died, is the seal of the Covenant we have in Christ, I think it is safe to assume that Jesus didn't need to groan or pray in the Spirit to show us how it had to be done. The Spirit of God after all is our teacher and our guide through this Christian adventure. He is all capable afterall He is God Himself.

Still the message from Paul to the Ephesians was that they pray in the Spirit at all times.

Kobojunkie:
Well, Jesus didn't say anything about praying in the Spirit

Kobojunkie:
Paul did. And Paul suggests, at least in Ephesians 6, that all should pray in the Spirit all the times.

lukui:
DJ spinal sign am LAGBAJA MASKING NO BE CHINA!!!

Fela, Lagbaja, Alariwo, and many others were the real deal in Nigerian music industry.

Happy birthday man

DJ please play me "200 million mumu" by lagbaja

traihit:
Lagbaja in Yoruba means 'somebody ' (literally 'anonymous'). Artistes that combined modernity with Africa culture and social issues are really rare. Lagbaja is a legend in that regard. Happy birthday to him.

There's so much uniqueness in African music even if they seem close. The same feeling I get when I listen to Iyogogo by Onyeka Owenu is the same as some of Lagbaja's classics.

By the way, does anyone have any idea when "200 million mumu" was released?

¹⁰To end my letter I tell you, be strong in the Lord and in his great power.
¹¹Wear the full armor of God. Wear God’s armor so that you can fight against the devil’s clever tricks.
¹²Our fight is not against people on earth. We are fighting against the rulers and authorities and the powers of this world’s darkness. We are fighting against the spiritual powers of evil in the heavenly places.
¹³That is why you need to get God’s full armor. Then on the day of evil, you will be able to stand strong. And when you have finished the whole fight, you will still be standing.
¹⁴So stand strong with the belt of truth tied around your waist, and on your chest wear the protection of right living.
¹⁵On your feet wear the Good News of peace to help you stand strong.
¹⁶And also use the shield of faith with which you can stop all the burning arrows that come from the Evil One.
¹⁷Accept God’s salvation as your helmet. And take the sword of the Spirit—that sword is the teaching of God.
¹⁸Pray in the Spirit at all times. Pray with all kinds of prayers, and ask for everything you need. To do this you must always be ready. Never give up. Always pray for all of God’s people.
- Ephesians 6:10-18

Kobojunkie:
Paul suggested it...
that seems to be the reason

Kobojunkie:
I waited and I think the answer is here

I think it refers to what Paul described as groaning sounds. I was just sitting with my laptop, attention between my show on Hulu and Nairaland. And just like that it started. Words are not coming out, just groaning of some sort. When I open my speak wide to speak, just sounds (no words) coming out, no matter how hard I try to force myself back to using words.
I would not describe it as a pleasant experience. I don't know about anyone else but the feeling of being "remote controlled" by some ALIEN entity remains I kept hoping my roomate would not walk into the room wandering why I was groaning and looking like I was freaking out. LOL

I wonder what the experience of others with this is. I too would like to know How others really do this praying in the spirit thing.

MuttleyLaff:
Tell them brother
Hope pẹtra1, Ronpẹt777, rhẹktor and Company brothers understand this.

My brother, you're blessed.

I don't know about any of your experiences, but let's just put it this way, and I must say, I wouldn't wish it on my enemy to be caught in dire straits like that

So, there are two occasions in my life, when I was in dire straits and a right pickle, where whilst in these unpalatable situations, I prayed to God, the prayers got to a point, that I couldn't articulate or put in words anymore what I was praying about, that I just groaned and sighed.

The groans, came from the inner deep fibre of my being. It felt like I was at the end of my tethers, and actually had no more strength to pray, that I just have to resort to sighing, at the situation and made groans, literally crying for the help and mercy of God

MuttleyLaff:
... So, there are two occasions in my life, when I was in dire straits and a right pickle, where whilst in these unpalatable situations, I prayed to God, the prayers got to a point, that I couldn't articulate or put in actual human being language words anymore what I was praying about, that I just slided into and resorted to groaning and sighing.

The groans and sighs, came from the innermost deep fibre of my being. It felt like, I was at the end of my tethers, and actually had no more strength to pray, that I just have to resort to sighing at the situation and made groans, literally crying for the help and mercy of God. Recollecting now, is giving me goose pimples. So trust me, I have lived Romans. 8:26. Jesus too, in two or three occassions, went through this experience

"But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit,"
- Jude 1:28

Apart from Jude 1:28 reproduced above, verses, like John 3:8 and John 4:24 promptly flashed through my mind when about to respond to you concerning the Romans 8:26 you referenced

You've grossly misunderstood Romans 8:26 nwanne. The Spirit is free, it is like a wind, we dont see it, we cant touch it but we can sense it, we can hear it. It moves, one minute it is quiet and still, next minute, it can be howling and noisily slammimg doors shut another minute too.

God, is a Spirit, we, as spirit beings try to connect with God, so we pray in the spirit, to associate ourselves with what is happening or is about to happen in the Spirit realm, link with what is hapening in the Spirit's world, as in, God's great/​grand scheme of things. So when we pray in the spirit, we literally are positioning our "satellite dish or antenna" for good and maximum signal strength to get sharp pictures and/or clear broadcast signals from God, as we pray in tune or in accordance with His "Thy will be done" and not our will

Without tuning in, (i.e. without praying in the spirit) distortions, bad reception, ugly feedbacks, clashing stations etcetera will be the end product, and we end up praying out of tune. Now, here is how Jude 1:20 comes into the fray. Jude 1:20 has nothing to do speaking in tongues but means what it says out of the tin. It means to literally, pray in the Holy Spirit, as in, like, to pray in line with the Spirit, similar to that ''thy will be done and not my will" Jesus' prayer and not to be praying in some uninteligible and inarticulate language

Nwanne pchukwudiẹ, jiggazẹ and Chi59ẹ, do you know what a ''thy will be done and not my will" Jesus' prayer is?

"After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;"
- Revelation 7:9

"⁹Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
¹⁰That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
¹¹And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
- Philippians 2:9-11

Nwanne, pchukwudiẹ, my dearest beloved brother, this thing is very cool, simple, straight up and uncomplicated, only that you, jiggazẹ and Chi59ẹ dont want to adjust your "proper & holistic understanding meter" on this matter of gift of tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:2 is easily understood and needing no explanation because of the greek word "glossa" used in it, which funnily enough, means word, and it is how we have the word, glossary, so pchukwudiẹ, obviously, "glossa" simply means human beings word(s). So tongue(s) in essence means human being language(s). As you can see from Revelation 7:9 and Philippians 2:9-11 above, tongues is closely associated and/or suggestive of being related with human beings and not celestial beings or a heavenly language

So, now going straight on to one of my favourite scripture, which is the 1 Corinthians 14:2 you quoted and brought up, the tongue Paul was talking about in this same 1 Corinthians 14:2, is the language or tongue of human beings. He is talking about the tongue and/or language associated with human beings. This means, the language or tongue Paul was talking about in 1 Corinthians 14:2 is, one in reference to a human being's style or manner of speaking.

Tongue, an organ of speech, is a member of the body of a human being's anatomy, not celestial beings. It also is the language or dialect used by a particular people distinct from that of other people, so again my dear nwanne, that is the kind of language or tongue, what Paul was talking about in 1 Corinthians 14:2

Think about it nwanne, pchukwudiẹ, if I speak in a tongue no one understands, then except God and/or the absence of interpretation, no one will understand me. Even if I do it in private, and then my spirit prays, but my mind has no understanding and clue of what I've said or prayed about.

Tongue, an organ of speech, is a member of the body of a human being, not celestial beings and also is the language or dialect used by a particular people distinct from that of other people, so again my dear brother pchukwudiẹ, that is the kind of language or tongue, what Paul was talking about in 1 Corinthians 14:2

Think about it pchukwudiẹ, if I speak in a tongue, no one understands, then in the absence of interpretation, no one will understand me. Even if I do it in private prayers, then my spirit prays, but my intellect and mind has no understanding and clue of what I've said.

Another important thing about 1 Corinthians 14:2, is that, "unknown" was never in the original Greek verse. It is a latter addition by translators.

Nwanne pchukwudiẹ, jiggazẹ and Chi59ẹ, you are in a gathering comprising of like minded people with Igbo, Yoruba, Fulani, Hausa, Edo etcetera language speaking backgrounds, who dont speak nor understand each other's languages (i.e. each others Igbo, Yoruba, Fulani, Hausa, Edo language is unknown to the other), the only common language each undersands is English, now when it is time to pray, teach or preach, which language in the absence of interpretation, will you speak, pray, teach or preach in?
What language please?

1 Corinthians 14:2, is telling you that, in the above setting I've mentioned, if you speak languages that others don't know, God will understand what you are saying, though no one else will know what you mean. You will be talking about mysteries that only the Spirit understands. The others will just be guessing all you said

Also why do you want or need to speak to God in a language you do not understand what your mind is saying, I ask again, huh?

Have you, got it? Epiphany yet?

Etifinity:
Please how do u pray in the holy ghost?

Acehart:
Hi. Please create a thread asking this question and I’ll give you an answer.

hoopernikao:
[s]You may really need to take a good lesson in bible study maybe from using book of my bible story as it is obvious there is a lot you really need to learn about the scriptures and you should start from your cradle. That you cant even understand what letter and spirit means is really a big concern as a Christian. You called God's inspired written, documented word as letter of the law? I doubt you have regard or honor neither knowledge of who God is. This is very shameful for such to proceed from a so called believer.

What do you know about the spirit? If we throw it open on move and abilities of the spirit, what do you know or have experienced? You just disdained God's word with your utterances. A very big shame. This same word was preserved by men of old with their blood and life. Men who gave all so that you can have same thing you just disdained because of your laziness to study and read properly. Is that not shameful enough? Men were burned just to hide a copy of your "letter of the law" so that it can get to you, yet you mocked it. Very saddening. You truly dont understand what you just said and whoever is teaching you God's word is either doing a very bad job or you are wasting his time.

That same letter (the written word) you called letter of the law is God's Inspiration (2 Tim 3:16), do you know what that means? that same letter is what gave life to many today serving Jesus if you are among.

You must be one of those people who read their bible upside-down to have referred to God's word as letter of the law. Men like are the roots of all misconception about Christianity and source of many loosing their faith. A man who cant trust the truth of God's word, a man who cant honor the scriptures as what God truly breath out, as the absolute and only inspired document for mankind is talking about the spirit. I am truly ashamed of your comment. And it seems there is nothing someone wont see on this Nairaland.
Bro, you are just a stone throw from Atheism. Just a minute late for it, better start praying and repent because with these utterances, you will soon call God a liar.[/s]

hoopernikao:
AS AN ASIDE:
I guess i didnt let you know from beginning my stand on scriptural doctrine and practice.

Please note this is my believe in bible explanation. I believe absolutely in the authority of the scriptures, I mean absolutely (100000%).

If you show me anything and i can see it written as such in the bible, that is final and will make correction immediately. But trying to show me what isnt written or want me to go by reading meaning to the authors intent when it isnt documented. I will rather lay my life down than compromise the scriptures on that. The written word is above all.

I say this so that it will guide your response as i am not seeing you using scriptures but reading meaning to events to interpret.

Acehart:
If you don’t see mockery, derision or ridicule in the speech, wetin I go do?
See you tomorrow, God willing

hoopernikao:
Bro, your explanation subtlety changing the meaning of neos. And it is either you are mixing things up or you are deliberately manipulating the scriptures even in the face of all evidence in the bible in that word usage.

I have given you twice from the scriptures how neos is used. The very verse you quoted showed you what neos is (young). It is unpleasant to try and change the meaning of words when it doesnt exist.

Neos was never used for something without a past, i have made that clear to you earlier as below.

The above is the simplest way to can explain neos in English. Trying to modify this as to replace or mean same as kainos is wrong.

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Even looking at the verse you pointed to:

¹² And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
¹³And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.

Is it not clear to you that neos was constantly used as young not in existence but age. Young man, young child. Kainos is not young, it is new.

.........USAGE OF KAINOS IN SEPTUAGINT.............

I will try to still help in giving you extended study to OT.

The Septuagint (Greek translation of Hebrews scriptures) used kainos 53 times in OT. As least the Septuagint is one of the oldest if not the oldest translation into Greek you can have, It existed even before the birth of Jesus and read by the Apostles. Let me show you how it used kainos in the OT

1 Samuel 6:7
KJV 7 Now therefore make A NEW CART, and take two milch kine, on which there hath come no yoke, and tie the kine to the cart, and bring their calves home from them:

Such CART was never in use or existed before. You cant look into yesterday and find the cart. He said MAKE, that is enough for you to know it never existed before now. That is the new (kainos)

David used it severally when referring to a NEW SONG

Psalms 40:3 KJV
And he hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD.

New song here means to compose a song. That is not learning an existing song. To compose and get a song that hasnt being song before. That is how kainos was used all through in the Old Greek.

..............USAGE OF NEOS IN SEPTUAGINT..................
In all cases of usage of neos in OT from Greek translation, it was never used to mean NEW but YOUNG. See below all the places NEOS was used in the OT.
Genesis 19:31 to the younger,
Genesis 19:34 to the younger,
Genesis 19:35 also: and the younger
Genesis 19:38 And the younger,
Genesis 25:23 the younger.
Genesis 29:26 the younger
Genesis 43:33 and the youngest
Genesis 48:14 who was the younger,
Joshua 6:26 and in his youngest
Judges 6:15 and I am the least
1 Samuel 9:21 the least
1 Kings 16:34 of it in his youngest
Job 30:1 But now they that are younger
Job 32:6 I am young,
Psalms 68:27 There is little
Psalms 119:141 I am small
Isaiah 60:22 and a small one
Jeremiah 14:3 their little ones
Jeremiah 48:4 her little ones
Jeremiah 49:20 Surely the least
Jeremiah 50:45 Surely the least
Micah 5:2 though thou art little
It was never an issue in OT at all to mean new, only kainos was used for new. Neos will relate to something existing already while kainos means not existing. Trying to wrestle this because of your set mind to adhere to your teaching on tongues is wrong. It will mean dishonesty.

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In all, it is your choice if you cling to your understanding even when it is obvious you are wrong, but it is very bad when you chose to consistently write in public space what is not true and you know it. You are deliberately manipulating the word of God. Dont forget that people have access to these bible materials and concordance, dont present yourself in bad light because of this struggle. You have no gain in that. You wont only be hurting yourself but others you intend to convince.

You cant because you want to defend tongues as human language then manipulate what new tongues means. Be careful the position of your heart in this discussion. And now that you have seen that all through the OT, neos was used to only mean young not new and kainos was consistently used as new, i hope you can submit to scriptures.

donnie:
Wetin consign me with egg?

donnie:
The scriptures have sufficient information on those years. Esau had many of those books removed from their canon, others were destroyed or hidden. And besides, what they had those years were paintings and sculptures and we have a good number of them

donnie:
They are not lost. Helpless liars.

Goshen360:
^ ^ ^
Now understood and will put that into perspective as the discussion continues
while we wait for hoopernikao to comment and hopefully we can move on in the discussion.

donnie:
Check them, they are mixed, Latinos, etc.
See that oyinbo below with red shirt...Is that afro?

See the people who caused this thing... The MOORS. They captured and had sex with as many white women as they could. They are responsible for whitening the so-called middle East, Mediterranean, Arabia, North Africa etc.

donnie:
You have accused me of many things simply because I tell tell the truth. If MESSIAH was white, I will still not have a problem with it. But don't tell me lies.

All those lies shall be exposed and uprooted from the hearts of many before the end comes.

Image123:
Reading any part of donnie's exchange with Muttley, anyone would easily notice that donnie is indeed a scammer, picking and choosing what he feels soothes his ridiculous agenda. The black angel is yet to tell us what his doctrine saves us from

donnie:
The word of YAH is what it is.

donnie:
No one asked for your analysis. We all have eyes to see and brains to think.

Image123:
Jacob and Esau are twin brothers, duh. Meaning they are family.
You are a racist, you hate people based on water colour, skin colour, binta and bintu bla bla.

donnie:
Speaking of Japhet... See his seed... the early Etruscans aka Romans ...of Italy.
See your red people hia....
You wish they were oyinbo ba?

donnie:
I care less about what you think. I can lecture properly about Malcolm X. And how far did he go after his "new revelation" from Mecca? Who raised him until he became such a voice? Even Martin Luther King who preached integration began to correct himself in his later years. Abeg leave wetin no consign us. Israel in Nigeria will have to wake up to this truth or perish. Judgment is already close and the nation is overdue for judgment.

donnie:
Are you not quoting from those books? There are books like the Book of Enoch and Jasher that are undoubtedly scripture. There is a Spirit of truth that guides.

donnie:
That's your hubby.

donnie:
You've been caught several times.

donnie:
You will have to repent and believe the truth. These are the last days, truth will hide no more.

Goshen360:
@ MuttleyLaff, first dont assume I'm of the opinion that the kainos tongue we're talking about is that of Angels as you mentioned in your response above. That's even another hole entirely so I'm not of such opinion. However, I'm reading and deeply following debates on both sides.

However, let me ask a question: if I say my wife just delivered a new born baby boy. What does that mean? Does this mean the baby existed before or not?

Goshen360:
MuttleyLaff didn't answer my question at all maybe I didn't present my questions well but I see hoopernikao had done justice with the difference between kainos and neos as against the response of MuttleyLaff and Acehart.

So as not to distract the flow of the thread/discussion, I'll still rather sit back to allow them resolved the difference of misconception or misunderstanding of bible words leading to differences in interpretation.

I'm enjoying the flow of conversation though and learning.

Unknown soldier: In all, it still remain that you are giving a distracting response and you arent approaching my submission. Why was tongue called NEW (kainos). Have you checked the usage of that word? Why did Jesus chose such word to explain tongues. This is the focus of this part.

If tongue is called new (kainos) tongue, then it cant be human language. Check by part 2 well i have given you enough scriptures for that else present the reason it is refer to as new (kainos) by Jesus and not strange or foreign tongues.

Jesus called it new, the same way he called his testament new, covenant new etc. This tongue is NEW. and that new is relative to the fact that it is not human language.

Eulalia:
Hmm. God bless you for this.
Very insightful.

donnie:
Yeah right all your interpretations must create room for white folks. Shame on you. I know that Prof. I have watched her videos, includig this one. She is one of those globalists who make effort to be politically correct. That's nit my thing. You can't tell the truth and be politically correct at the same time.

donnie:
Japhet was not white skinned, you bloody liar.

donnie:
The god of this world has turned things upside down. Truth is no longer accepted. You pick and choose and twist whatever scriptures you like so confirm to your lies and them come out with foolish confusions.

You quoted. A scripture it backfired on you, you start talking NONSENSE.

donnie:
YAH says what he means and means what he says. He doesn't need your PR.

donnie:
Caucasians try to say Adam means red so they can include themselves. It still doesn't include them because they don't have red skin. Their skin is white/pale. Its the blood showing through their skin that makes it look red. Besides, Adam doesn't mean red, it means earthy, plus he was made from mud. In many parts of Nigeria for example, we have red soil, if you like the color red so much. But don't try to sneak in your caucasian slavemasters.

donnie:
You tell too many lies ...

donnie:
Please give the exact quote of Josephus and quit telling us what it means, we can read.

donnie:
And Josephus is not bible.

donnie:
And easy with the lies please... there were no white skin nations until men began to mix with neanderthals (the seed of fallen angels) under caves at Caucasus mountains. -And that's not earlier than 500BC.

donnie:
“After a time, my son Mathusala took a wife for his son Lamech. She became pregnant by him, and brought forth a child, the flesh of which was as white as snow, and red as a rose; the hair of whose head was white like wool, and long; and whose eyes were beautiful. When he opened them, he illuminated all the house, like the sun; the whole house abounded with light. And when he was taken from the hand of the midwife, opening also his mouth, he spoke to the Lord of righteousness.Then Lamech his father was afraid of him; and flying away came to his own father Mathusala, and said, I have begotten a son, unlike to other children. He is not human; but, resembling the offspring of the angels of heaven, is of a different nature from ours, being altogether unlike to us.” — Book of Enoch 105:1–3

So we can deduce the following:
1. Why was Lamech afraid if white skin was normal like you LIE about Adam, Eve, ENOCH? etc.
Answer: All men were dark skinned, so seeing a pale-skinned human frightened him.

donnie:
2. He looked like children of angels. Angels were having children on earth with daughters of men.

donnie:
3. NOAH was an albino, not caucasian. A black man can produce an albino. And you will not call albino oyinbo. He couldn't have been caucasian since that type of white skin began under caves at Caucasus mountains.

donnie:
QUESTION: Must you always lie to push your ideas? Is it by force?
The same Apocrypha you forbade, you are shamelessly using ...

MuttleyLaff:
I have asked Néphilim, to share what is the meaning of the Néphilim moniker he has adopted, and to tell what is the essence of being called a Néphilim all about, but he is yet to be forthcoming with anything, lol

Noah’s flood destroyed the Nephilim's bodies, but the gene of the Néphilim survived the flood nah, lol, donnie.

donnie, also, as I almost forgot, please with all due respect, dont insult my biblical intelligence, by you saying, that the Néphilim/giants are the product of intercourse between the watchers, fallen angels and the daughters of men. What the heck does this mean donnie? Especially when, Yahshua Ha Maschiach, Himself, explicitly said extra-terrestrial beings aka angels are asexual. C'mon now guys, get a grip. Pesin dey see road waka nah, even if same pesin dey cry.

Facepalm. Please dont say that. Dont say you believe in the authenticity of the BoE. Smh. No please.

Nobody is hiding anything. Every one who is anyone among the disciples of Yahshua Ha Maschiach read it. I regularly read too. The thing is when read by the easily persuaded it's like giving a loaded gun with its safety catch off to an inexperienced and untrained hand.

donnie:
... You think say na today I start?
You're a shameless somebody.

donnie:
Yeah right...

Maximus69:
Excellent!

donnie:
They were not white, stop telling lies. CHANOK (ENOCH) and his ancestors were all black.

donnie:
NOAH was albino... And it was a strange thing to those who saw him at his birth. To ancient Israelites, white skin was seen as a disease, like leprosy.

donnie:
You must be better than YAHUAH who divided humans by their different races and set their boundaries, hmm?

Acts 17:26
"And He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their lands and territories."