₦airaland Forum

Jozzy4:
Its not authentic, yet Greek scriptures writers use it as equivalent . You think you will find sheol in the greek septuagint.

The meaning of Hades to a Jew is completely different to a Greek's meaning and understanding of Hades

The Jew have their own interpretation of what the Sheol section of which the Greek's Hades represent means
and the Greeks too have their own interpretation of what their original Hades means to them

Without bias, just try to respect and appreciate the Jewish concept of what the borrowed Hades word is and means
Try and familiarise yourself with how a Jew sees Sheol and Hades
Be faithful, without sentiments, to their viewpoint

Jozzy4:
Regarding this your Rev 20:13 quotation, I doubt you at all have any understanding of the relationship between sea, death and sheol in that verse ?

Mr, Dont avoid that question: tell us why those in the Sea are not said to be in Sheol? Rev 20:13

I am solemnly with the stance that those who perish in the sea are held up in Sheol
Those in the Sea are no different to those deposited into graves/tombs/sepulchres
- all end up in Sheol

It is you who says those in the Sea are not said to be in Sheol
Remember you asked:
Why are those in the sea not said to be in Sheol?

plappville:
Are you saying that Nicodemus saw the kingdom thats why He ask such questions?

What was Nicodemus opening remark?
What does the remark suggest or mean?

plappville:
'seeing' and 'entering' are you indicating different sorts of actions in relation to the Kingdom of God?

Yes I am.
We see things other people are not seeing though we are looking at a thing at the same time

plappville:
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases.
You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going.
So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
What do you understand by this?

My understanding of it will be:
You hear the power or movement of the Spirit of God working. You cant tell where it comes from or where it is going
but if born of the Spirit just like Nicodemus you're able to see and admit the evidences of the Kingdom operating at any moment through the power or movement of the Spirit of God

plappville:
Of course he was talking to the same audience. Not a different

Apart from the doves present in the audience, there were also snakes and vultures there too
This part was for the brood of vipers and vultures in the audience
- the Pharisees were couldnt admit or acknowledge seeing the evidences of the Kingdom operating at that moment and they even were anticipating seeing the 2nd returning of Jesus

plappville:
The kingdom of God is within your midst. Meaning the Kingdom is on earth

The kingdom of God is within your midst. Meaning the Kingdom is on earth
Yes, the former part sounds like a paradox, doesnt it?
- the Kingdom is on earth but it isnt necessarily within alls midst or everyone's heart

plappville:
A Trinitarian wiĺl not agree with you on this

Which part will they have reservations over

Jozzy4:
Whenever you say Sheol has two areas, you are actually saying Hades has two areas.
(and from the verse above, its clear not all the dead are in hades/sheol)
Because Hades is the greek word for Sheol,

You obviously missed the memo I sent Jessicha on Hades.
Nothing spoilt, as though not trying to come across like a broken record, I'll repeat it here, all over again, just for you.

what is Hades? - Here we go again

Hades is the abode of the dead and it is located in Sheol
- it's like saying Lagos is in Naija

Hell which has become synonymous with Hades, is neither Hebrew or Greek in origin

Sheol is, what you'll find in the original Hebrew text for any word for Hell
In other places, Hades or Hell was the Greek substitution for the part of Sheol where the Rich man is from the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus

As a matter of fact, Hell actually finds it roots in the classic Greek mythology, Hades

where Hades interestingly and actually, was the ancient Greek god of the underworld.
This god's name (i.e. Hades) later turned to mean the place or abode of the dead, which actually is exactly what Sheol is, what is signifies or represents.

Talking about Gehenna, well it is a valley, a valley in Jerusalem, used as a dumping refuse site and so was used by Jesus to depict the Lake of fire
(i.e. it is a place of destruction, as in, via incineration, a place for destroying things)

As earlier mentioned, Gehenna was the incinerating refuse dump in Jerusalem
Hades however, historically and originally is the name of a Greek god until it got turned to meaning the place or abode of the dead
It later got interchanged with hell, which is from a German word root
It was bible translators who were substituing the original Hebrew word Sheol (i.e. the part where the dead of the Rich man sort are), with Greek counterparts Hades/Hell that made hell stick with us today

I can draw you further in with unadulterated info on Sheol,
but these small and sliced up bits, so far should suffice
else you'll throw up or choke on the chunkier others

Jozzy4:
An hebrew translation will read :

" and the SEA gave up the dead in it, and death and SHEOL gave up the dead that are in them" Rev 20:13

Why are those in the sea not said to be in sheol?

Just because you have a Greek word for a Jewish word doesnt imply the Greek word is authentic in meaning or concept
- transliteration is not foolproof.

Regarding this your Rev 20:13 quotation, I doubt, you at all have any understanding of the relationship between sea, death and Sheol in that verse?

I hope you and EnigmAries who incidentally is equating graves/tombs/sepulchres with Sheol, will compare your verse with Matthew 27:52

And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
- Matthew 27:52

EnigmAries:
1 Cor 15:55(KJV) O death, where is thy sting? O GRAVE where is thy victory?
(Amplified): O death, where is your victory? O DEATH, where is your sting?

Which part of it don't you understand?

Why you preferred to stick with the KJV version when its the Amplified version which word for word matches whats in the original text are reasons best known to you
- the original text, just as in the Amplified version, mentioned death twice

I had mentioned before that grave is synonymous with Sheol,
however grave when used for Sheol has meanings more than your average 6-foot dug out hole in the ground
Note that when Sheol is oversimplified, it is referred to as grave

EnigmAries:
...Daniel 12:2 ...'And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.'
Matthew 27:52 ...'And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose.'... At Jesus' resurrection He gave gifts to some and resurrected them also from the dead. But what were they doing before they were resurrected by Jesus? They were sleeping. In other words they were in their graves not knowing anything.

Take a look at this Bible verse ...John 5:28-29 ...
'Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;
and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.'...

Am sure you will admit there is only ONE Sheol
There are graves but make no mistake that, there is more than one Sheol

EnigmAries:
Where are we when we hear His voice? IN THE GRAVE.
This is where we will be when we die, in the grave.

The grave used in that context means Sheol brother
We wint be in graves BUT will be in Sheol
Just because Sheol gave up the souls in it via the graves/tombs/sepulchres doesnt mean the souls were in graves/tombs/sepulchres

EnigmAries:
Acts 2:29,34 ...'Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. For David is not ascended into the heavens.'

Valid point and I have no qualms with this verse
however granted that David's body was placed into the ground but where is David's soul?
Is David's soul in limbo?

EnigmAries:
Matthew 9:24 ...'He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.'

This has some relationship with your next and below quote so I will address and explain along with it

EnigmAries:
John 11:11-14 ...'These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.'

So Jesus spoke of death as sleeping

Yes, Jesus spoke of death as sleeping because death is unconsciousness
Whoever crosses from the land of the living to the realm of the dead is unconscious to events or happenings in the land of the living
The living are unconscious to events/happenings of the dead and vice versa the dead are unconscious to events/happenings of the living
If you're married and do regularly consummate the marriage, then you will know about ''La petite mort'' aka ''the little death''
and that split seconds moment, when you slip into unconsciousness and the ability to maintain an awareness of self and environment is lost
If you havent being noticing this brief unconsciousness, maybe because you're so caught up in the bliss of the orgasm, then consider actual sleeping.
When we sleep, until when woken up, we are unconsciousness of events or happening going on in our surrounding
That is what Jesus was implying about the young maiden and Lazarus, Martha's brother.

Food for thought, but take it in bits and thoroughly chew though before swallowing, else you might choke and throw up
- Chomping is not allowed
Would it have been possible AFTER 3 days, to raise the young maiden, Lazarus as in Martha's brother or any of the others in the Bible returning back from the dead back to life?

EnigmAries:
Not about going to heaven or hell (in your own case, Abraham bossom) when we die, but sleeping.
And until when do we sleep in the grave?

We sleep in the grave aka Sheol until when resurrected with a glorified body
If not beyond 3 days, it is possible without a glorified body to bring one back from sleeping aka unconsciousness

Depending to some extent on environmental conditions, approximately after 3 days, the body and specifically its organs starts to decay
Nowadays, we are able to stop this process with people already dead, by keeping them on machines pumping blood through the body
- Leviticus 17:14 is now making sense erh, doesnt it?

The life of every creature is in its blood. That is why I have said to the people of Israel,
'You must never eat or drink blood, for the life of any creature is in its blood.'
So whoever consumes blood will be cut off from the community.
- Leviticus 17:14

EnigmAries:
...John 11:23-24 ...'Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.'...

Martha knew that Lazarus would rise again at the resurrection, which would be Jesus' second coming, but as we know, Jesus decided to resurrect Lazarus there and then.
These are clear Bible verses.

It is clear in that passage Jesus was referring to a different rise
and wasnt referring to a rise in a glorified body Martha was thinking about

EnigmAries:
It is now up to you to continue to cling to parable of Jesus which He used as an illustration and not an actual place
- at best, a future location.

If something is told as a joke, it doesnt mean the joke is devoid of some elements of reality in it.

Jesus using The Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus as an illustration doesnt mean it is entirely lacking or is free from a reality of Sheol

The hyperbolic illustration was for the benefit of the listening audience to be aware of the seriousness of the which side in Sheol one finds oneself
- simply a case of the end justifies the means

EnigmAries:
If you know so much, I wonder why you don't know that the Bible teaches that we only return to dust at death and know nothing (Eccles 9:5, 10)

https://s2.postimg.org/s7g977za1/pig.jpg
Whats wrong with agreeing with the latter part statement in Genesis 3:19?
Do you agree with the above pictures AND the decomposition stages to dust, dont you?
Of course you know nothing at death, as your soul after the body becomes dust has no consciousness in relation to events or happenings in the land of the living

Without making this personal, I am respectfully saying, you miss the point on those verses brother, as the Bible and that verse(s) is simply teaching that consciousness is not cross-abode

We are conscious in our respective and current station but when we change the location, we lose whatever consciousness we had in the other or previous location

This is why the young maiden, Lazarus as in Martha's brother or any of the others in the Bible returning back from the dead back to life NEVER had any ''tales'' to tell about Sheol/Hades/Hell and/or NEVER had any recollection at all of having been to Sheol/Hades/Hell

This also makes one wary and deeply skeptical about a few people coming back to life after being pronounced dead, having stories of seeing people in Hell burning etcetera.

Account of events such as these, by people returning from the dead is an elaborate deception perpetrated by scammers.

Jozzy4:
Your two rooms in sheol hypothesis will fall and collapse when you discover that those in the sea are not said to be in Hades .

Rev 20:13
English Revised Version
And the SEA gave up the dead which were in it; and Death and HADES gave up the dead which were in them: And they were judged every man according to their works.
Can you now see that the those that died or drown in the sea are not said to be in hade's ?

The problem here is : considering those who teach Hades as the abode of the wicked, then no matter how wicked a person is, the scripture showed that they dont go to Hades if they died in the sea. Now if hades is a place of punishment like some suggest , IT WILL BE TOTAL PARTIALITY And Unreasonable THAT NO MATTER HOW UNrighteous A PERSON MIGHT BE SUCH a person wont even go to Hades, so far they died IN THE SEA

My brother I thought you're too bright to want to fall for needing to drag out this verse
It doesnt take anything away from Sheol having two areas
It merely shows that there are more than one entry point into Sheol
and people will be returning or are just returning back, via their entry points

dolphinheart:
I dnt believe hades is a part of sheol

What do you believe Hades is?
Where do you believe Hades is?

dolphinheart:
nor do I believe sheol has parts

If you dont believe Sheol has two parts/areas
You'll equally have a hard time stomaching that the two parts have a gulf between them then

dolphinheart:
that is ur view

Oh no, dont be too quick playing ''that's your view'' card because its scripture. Its Bible, not me, not my view

dolphinheart:
so I ask, what happens in that part called hades.

I suppose the opposite of what happens in the other side, everything and anything but short of bliss

dolphinheart:
use the scriptures to prove it.

For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead,
that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
- 1 Peter 4:6

I am He who lived and died, and behold,
I am alive to the eternity of eternities, amen,
and I have the key of Death and of Sheol.
- Revelation 1:18

EnigmAries:
I didn't reproduce anything.

You still havent understood
- type out here what 1 Cor 15:55 says

EnigmAries:
The text where that verse was translated to English reads "hades", same for Rev 20:14. Do yourself a favor by finding that out.

Were you expecting Paradise aka Abraham's bosom aka Abraham's side to be casted into the Lake of Fire along with Hades?

EnigmAries:
Sheol and Hades as used in the Bible means grave.

Tell me something I dont already know or something unsimilar to this I havent posted

EnigmAries:
Thinking there is a world of the dead somewhere is satan deception and is dangerous.

a loaded gun in the hands of a trained professional and not pointed to the head is not dangerous

EnigmAries:
Grave as used in 1 Cor 15:55 is hades in the original greek text, same thing for sheol in hebrew text of the OT.

Type out here what 1 Cor 15:55 says
after which you be the judge if grave is mentioned in it

dolphinheart:
what happened to the rich man in hades, part of sheol

You tell me, I am sensing you're itching to do, so you have my blessing to do just that

dolphinheart:
Bro, but Jesus is said to go to this aka hades. The same part where the rich man went.

Yes, He did my able and equally knowledgeable brother
- He went there to preach the Gospel to souls inhabiting the place
and for something else. Like, over keys? I think

dolphinheart:
It has been modified.

Thank you
Ah bliss. Now much better on the eyes etcetera
Hang on, so its you disputing that Abraham's side aka Abraham's bosom is not a place of bliss aka paradise ROTBL

Jessicha:
Jesus went to Hades too, was he burned? Act 2:31

Where you got that Hades is on fire or burning beats me
Hades is on fire or Hades burning is Greek mythology. That is an imported and non-Jewish concept

EnigmAries:
Grave as used in 1 Cor 15:55 is hades in the original greek text, same thing for sheol in hebrew text of the OT

Why dont you do yourself a favour and spare us this comedy of errors by reproducing 1 Cor 15:55 here

Jessicha:
Hades is not located in sheol! Hades is the greek equivalent of hebrew sheol [ Act 2:31 , Psalm 16:10

Madam you obviously didnt read the memo, so I'll repeat it here all over again just for you.

what is Hades? - Here we go again

Hades is the abode of the dead and it is located in Sheol
- it's like saying Lagos is in Naija

Hell which has become synonymous with Hades, is neither Hebrew or Greek in origin

Sheol is, what you'll find in the original Hebrew text for any word for Hell
In other words, Hades or Hell was the Greek substitution for the part of Sheol where the Rich man is from the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus

As a matter of fact, Hell actually finds it roots in the classic Greek mythology, Hades

where Hades interestingly and actually, was the ancient Greek god of the underworld.
This god's name (i.e. Hades) later turned to mean the place or abode of the dead, which actually is exactly what Sheol is, what is signifies or represents.

Talking about Gehenna, well it is a valley, a valley in Jerusalem, used as a dumping refuse site and so was used by Jesus to depict the Lake of fire
(i.e. it is a place of destruction, as in, via incineration, a place for destroying things)

As earlier mentioned, Gehenna was the incinerating refuse dump in Jerusalem
Hades however, historically and originally is the name of a Greek god until it got turned to meaning the place or abode of the dead
It later got interchanged with hell, which is from a German word root
It was bible translators who were substituing the original Hebrew word Sheol (i.e. the part where the dead of the Rich man sort are), with Greek counterparts Hades/Hell that made hell stick with us today

I can draw you further in with unadulterated info on Sheol,
but these small and sliced up bits, so far should suffice
else you'll throw up or choke on the chunkier others

Jozzy4:
Your response to Jessicha is a pure trash,
why is it that those who died in the sea never go to sheol/hades?

https://s3.postimg.org/gu2g44ub7/Lounge.jpg
Everyone, after drawing their last breath, ends up in Sheol and remain there waiting until boarding to their final and respective destination

Sheol is like being in an airport terminal's departure area
The area where you (i.e. think of the Rich man here) hold your ticket, boarding pass and wait with your luggages before taking a flight to your final destination

Some airlines, as a service to premium or selected passengers operate airline lounges,
providing them with comforts in the lounges beyond those available in the airport terminal's departure area

These choice passengers (e.g. think of Father Abraham and the Poor man here), enjoy plush and more comfortable seating, quieter environments are provided.
Other privileges may include private meeting rooms, telephones, wireless internet access and other business services, along with provision of free drinks and snacks to enhance passenger comfort.
- looks and sounds like a place of bliss, doesnt it?

Sheol too, has a model similar to this:
There is the Rich man's side aka Hades
and there is Abraham's side aka Abraham's bosom aka place of bliss

@dolphinheart @paulgrundy
The bottom half of the above post is so muddled up one doesnt even know anymore who actually said what or didnt say what

plappville:
I dont know if see through is possible. But i can understand that flesh and blood cannot see it. Seeing that after recieving the Holy spirit. We stil remain fleah and blood

This is why I suggested to not hastily respond back without reading and studying John 3:1-3 first

plappville:
...How then can we see it.?

After dark one evening, he came to speak with Jesus.
"Rabbi," he said,
"we all know that God has sent you to teach us.
Your miraculous signs are evidence that God is with you."
- John 3:2

Going back to John 3:2,
Nicodemus in John 3:2 managed to have seen somethings, admitted and confirmed the origin of what hes being seeing
but Jesus switched gear on Nicodemus, changed from ''see the Kingdom'' to ''enter the Kingdom'' only when Nicodemus was wrestling with the Born Again enter mother's womb
- it is a fact, we can see things of thing without entering the thing

plappville:
5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, (('You must be born again.')) 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

What does the wind here signify? The wind is invisable or can we see or hold the wind?

These are aftermaths, said in the context of entering the Kingdom and not in relation to seeing the Kingdom

Also the wind there was about a different thing, talking about the present wave or the another ''wave''
and it was said for the specific attention of a different audience who WERE present in that gathering (i.e. to the Pharisees or Far-to-Sees)

Think and reflect on verses like, and hopefully the Spirit of Truth will help out:

Mark 1:15, Matthew 4:17
and then compare with Luke 17:21

"The time promised by God has come at last!" he announced.
"The Kingdom of God is near!
Repent of your sins and believe the Good News!"
- Mark 1:15

From then on, Jesus began to tell people,
"Turn to God and change the way you think and act, because the kingdom of heaven is near!"
- Matthew 4:17

They can't say, 'Here it is!' or 'There it is!'
You see, the kingdom of God is within you."
- Luke 17:21

Lets pause here a bit and allow time for soaking in, this thing about separately seeing and entering

plappville:
1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Compare this varse to John 3:8
The question i want to ask you is this. After going this verse, I found out that Jesus could not make the kingdom of God too.. Or was He not in flesh when he ressuracted ?? Please help me out here thanks

Jesus is the firstborn of the dead with a glorified body which allows Him to enter the Kingdom
Believers are expected to have similar bodies for entry into the Kingdom too

He will take our weak mortal bodies and change them into glorious bodies like his own,
using the same power with which he will bring everything under his control.
- Philippians 3:21

EnigmAries:
Hades and Sheol simply means, grave.
Read: Gen 42:38b, Psalm 89:48/

Yes, simply grave
but not grave in the sense of a hole dug in the ground to receive a coffin or corpse
There is more to Sheol than ordinarily just a 6-feet hole in the ground
but at an elementary or entry level, simply referring Sheol as grave could do

EnigmAries:
and 1 Cor 15:55.

Not sure how 1 Cor 15:55 fits into all this

vooks:
Thank you Mutley

What are brothers for, asides, I know you'll do the same

paxonel:
i live in Nigeria, africa. We use the word born again to boast a lot

We live in a Culture of Narcissism

paxonel:
infact we use it more than the name christian, because we feel that the name Christian is not righteous enough

Different, different fever Christians na him dey
which is why certain members of the body of Christ have the need of using extra labels and tags for legitimacy and validity sake
Being a believer, a child or son of God in its intrinsic or ordinary sense isnt good enough without advertising, announcing or sounding off spirit-filled, Bible-believing, tongue speaking, washed in the blood qualifications

Jessicha:
Relax, hades is a part of sheol?? shocked OMG @ bold

https://i57.tinypic.com/34sp9j4.gif
Am relaxed,
and as cool as a cucumber whilst sipping my mango daiquiri mix

If you would keep at bay all your English and Naija misconceptions about what Sheol is
- this because they are based on faulty thinking about Sheol's composition or faulty understanding of what Sheol really is
Also if you accept that the Bible is Jewish/Aramaic in origin
and that Jesus was a Jew, who preached and taught in Jewish/Aramaic
then hearing that Hades is part of Sheol shouldnt shock, talkess of rattle you

This is talking of Sheol from a Jewish point of view, and not from an English, a Naija or any others' point of view
Sheol is a Jewish concept through and through, nothing more, nothing less. Capisce

Jessicha:
--- what is Hades?

what is Hades? - Here we go again

Hades is the abode of the dead and it is located in Sheol
- it's like saying Lagos is in Naija

Hell which has become synonymous with Hades, is neither Hebrew or Greek in origin

Sheol is, what you'll find in the original Hebrew text for any word for Hell
In other words, Hades or Hell was the Greek substitution for the part of Sheol where the Rich man is from the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus

As a matter of fact, Hell actually finds it roots in the classic Greek mythology, Hades

where Hades interestingly and actually, was the ancient Greek god of the underworld.
This god's name (i.e. Hades) later turned to mean the place or abode of the dead, which actually is exactly what Sheol is, what is signifies or represents.

Talking about Gehenna, well it is a valley, a valley in Jerusalem, used as a dumping refuse site and so was used by Jesus to depict the Lake of fire
(i.e. it is a place of destruction, as in, via incineration, a place for destroying things)

As earlier mentioned, Gehenna was the incinerating refuse dump in Jerusalem
Hades however, historically and originally is the name of a Greek god until it got turned to meaning the place or abode of the dead
It later got interchanged with hell, which is from a German word root
It was bible translators who were substituing the original Hebrew word Sheol (i.e. the part where the dead of the Rich man sort are), with Greek counterparts Hades/Hell that made hell stick with us today

I can draw you further in with unadulterated info on Sheol,
but these small and sliced up bits, so far should suffice
else you'll throw up or choke on the chunkier others

Jessicha:
Correction: as Jesus Claim - Joh 3:13

Jessicha:
@green ... Its a " Vision" 2 Cor 12:1

... and that third heaven, he Paul, saw isnt Abraham's bosom or Paradise. He saw the real McCoy not paradise

Jessicha:
@ purple ... Thats a lie , Abraham's bossom simply means Abrahams chest.

Erm, it isnt a lie actually. Bosom in the Bible has more meanings than literal chest

Jessicha:
Or are you telling us that Hagar went to paradise

No, as because in that particular context, she wasnt in Paradise
she was in that particular instance given to be personally and intimately on Abraham's side

Jessicha:
" at this Sarai said to Abram:
' the injury done to me is your fault, I was the one who put my servant in YOUR [Abraham] BOSSOM'"
- Gen 16:5 .

Sarah's servant is in paradise ryt ?

As shared above, no, she in this instance, isnt or wasnt in paradise because she, Hagar was placed to be on Abraham's side by Sarah or ordered by Sarah to go on Abraham's side

Jessicha:
@ bold .... Another lie , show me one scripture that said Jesus went to Abraham bossom/paradise/second heaven, when he died ?

Jesus told his disciples about a side in Sheol, which is the side Abraham is in (i.e. Abraham's bossom)

In the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus, the poor man was taken by the Angels to Abraham's side or part of Sheol (i.e. aka Paradise)
He wasnt taken to the Rich man's side or part of Sheol (i.e. aka Hades)
- Sheol has two parts: Hades where the Rich man was & Paradise or Abraham's side or Abraham's bosom, where Abraham and the Poor man was

Jessicha:
... Or shut your mouth forever

Coolu temper ooo
Now sheathe the sword and stop scaring the fair ladies with shut the mouth forever ultimatum else learning opportunities will be lost

Demmzy15:
https://s13.postimg.org/8ugc7hrib/equality.jpg https://s13.postimg.org/snsg074w3/justice.jpg
I hope this pictures has taught you something, now does equality and justice exist in your Bible?!

Yes, equality and justice exist in the Bible

The picture painted by Jesus in the Parable of the Talents, evidently teaches equality & justice and shows it exists in the Bible

To one he gave five talents, to another two talents, and to another one talent
--each according to his own ability.
And he promptly went on his journey.
- Matthew 25:15

plappville:
Totally agree with you. But I believe that flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom. So this cancel the so-called "born again" christian on earth. Jesus is the "firstborn from the dead. The only one that has defeated death. There has not been any one else after him. So for the moment, no 2rd, 3rd nor 4th born from the dead yet Until the resurrection day.

Do you believe it is possible to see the Kingdom though without entering the Kingdom

Please study John 3:1-3 first before answering the question, by slowing reading but reading it out loud
Hope you notice how Nicodemus instigated Jesus switching the gear on Nicodemus
Jesus in responding to Nicodemus' admitted observances,
decided to up the ante from ''see'' to ''enter'' after Nicodemus brought in the issue of re-entering a mother's womb

plappville:
The restored church of God will tell you that. There are the one true church that christ has formed. That you must be thi3r member to make heaven

They have a right to their delusion

plappville:
The body of Christ is divided. Almost all claim to be the true while others are false. Ev3n the Baptist where i worship here in France. They have a doctrine am not agree with. But i just dont follow thier all doctrine. They have me look like i am not a true member. But this does not disturb me at all. I worship God not doing this to please any pastor.

The reality is that there is no denomination in the Kingdom

Indeed, the time is coming, and it is now here,
when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth.
The Father is looking for people like that to worship him.
- John 4:23

plappville:
I think the word Born again is only used within Nigeria.
I have never heard any christian in the West call themselves "born again ". They call themseĺves believers or christians

''born again'' is used worldwide
It is used in the Americas, West and Eastern Europe, Australia, Francophone countries in Africa etcetera

Other appendages used with the Christian tag for legitimacy and validity sake are:
spirit-filled, Bible-believing, tongue speaking, washed in the blood

OLAADEGBU:
This leads us to asking: What is a Christian?

When you are done with perambulating, please lead yourself back to the question you're avoiding to answer:
Did Paul explicitly call himself a Christian, did the early believers, disciples or Apostles explicitly called themselves Christians?

OLAADEGBU:
The bottom line is that if you are not a Christian then you do not belong to the party of Christ.

You might as well write that, the bottom line is that, if you are not a negro/nigger then you do not belong to the black race party

Jozzy4:
" and death and hell were casted into the Lake Of Fire" - Rev 20:14

Abi? Here we see hell going to hell to be burned !

can someone throw light on this ? How can fire be burned with fire ?

What does it mean that hell go to hell

It means whoever is the author of the post is uninformed
and the noticeable evidences in the author's post, of living on a diet of ignorance, betrayed the author

Jozzy4:
@ Anas09, thanks for your input

But I pick another translation and see HADES, are you saying the King James Version is wrong for rendering hades as hell ?

welcome to reality. Yes! Rendering hades as hell is wrong

Jozzy4:
And pls my second question is: what is Hade's?

It is not Jewish/Aramaic in origin but is Greek, part of Greek mythology

Jozzy4:
Will hell be burned forever in fire ( rev 20:14)?

And Death and Sheol were cast into The Lake of Fire
- this which is the second death.
- Revelation 20:14

You are having difficulties understanding the hyperbolic Hebraic usage of ''forever''

And they will vanish like smoke vanishes,
and as wax is melted before fire, the wicked shall be destroyed from before God.
- Psalm 68:2

If Psalm 68:2 still doesnt do it for you, then for clarity sake, ask more questions

dolphinheart:
.........

Hello youguyz( the gay oriented pastor)

Jessicha:
Gud deepthought questions that they cant answer ! Meanwhile, do you mean the underlined?

dolphinheart:
Yep, I do mean the bold.
All these post they are posting is an attempt to take one away from the questions asked. They did not realise that they will hook themselves further with their scripture quotes.

Imagine, they both want to be entertained, or probably its just one person that wants to be entertained on two different monikers.
Paulgrundy had at one time posted he was paul grundy and he owns the website. Only for him to start speaking pidgin.

He put a picture of someone else(an oyinbo ) with a child that is not his. putting someone else picture in ur moniker shows you have no character .

He also will not tell you his religious affliation or church he attends.

dolphinheart I still have your hand, though you slipped a bit in my hands,
the ad hominem on paulGrundy/Yooguyz was unnecessary & uncalled for
You shouldnt have needed to stoop so low to pick up such ammunition to score cheap points
or tried to temporarily disorient paulGrundy/Yooguyz senses with such cheap distractive tactics
Stick to the theme of the thread and leave individuals character or sexual orientation out of it

Jessicha:
GBAM! @bold You err again, the scripture didnt put the comma, its the work of the translators .
Meditate on this conversation with Mary 3 days after :
"stop clinging to me , for I have NOT YET ascend to the Father " John 20:17

Bravo! You're on form.
- the scalp collection must be growing
I am never ceased to be amazed that to some extent and in certain areas,
you come across, as biblically knowing more than most of your opponents do

plappville:
Continues....

You have to be very careful and be mindful of the bones in the food some of these men of questionable character or doctrine dish out

I agree all written in the ''interesting article'' is 85% correct,
however disagree with where it is being suggested that, without ''entering the kingdom'', its impossible to ''see the kingdom''

I must confess I used to hold Herbert W. Armstrong in high esteem
and also used to request for his organisation's free book and Plain Truth magazine
even made requests for his book and the magazine for friends and family
but all the book requests and the respect I once had for him stopped the moment, around in 2005 or thereabouts
when I began reading and learning about some of his misleading and misguiding viewpoints
- some where books and articles with racist thoughts

David C. Pack, is the author of the above article and was a protégé of Herbert W. Armstrong
- as such, the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree

When Is a Christian “Born Again”?
http://realtruth.org/articles/140311-001.html

What Does “Born Again” Mean?
http://rcg.org/books/wdbam.html

Jozzy4:
Forever be with him in his arms

''Rush into the arms of the Bridegroom and forever be with Him'', is totally different to what you have typed up here.
Clearly ''... in His arms'' is your addition and you misquoting me or wrongly paraphrasing me

Do married couples have to be in each others arms in order to qualify as be forever together or be forever with each other?

Jozzy4:
why do you now initially said the bride will be separated from him? Groom in heaven, bride leave him in heaven and depot to earth?

Who is the bride, and who is the Bridegroom?
Are they yet married? No!
The Bridegroom is coming back for His bride

I'm as protective of you as God is.
After all, you're a virgin whom I promised in marriage to one man-Christ.
- 2 Corinthians 11:2

Jozzy4:
Together in heaven? Or the groom will be in a house (heaven), while the bride will be in another house ( earth)?

Jozzy4, am respectfully typing that you're punching above your weight here
Look up Revelation 21:1-3 yourself, if you didnt read the memo

OLAADEGBU:
No they don't

and what does ''no they dont'' mean

OLAADEGBU:
Not necessarily

SMH, OK then the word Christians in those three verses refers, to believers in Christ in an endearing and complimentary

OLAADEGBU:
Let's go back to where the word "Christian" was first used:

"And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. and it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch"
(Acts 11:26).

The name "Christ" to the Jews was a title which means "the anointed One," that is, the Jewish Messiah but the Greek speaking believers in Antioch became known as Christians as the verse depicts and this has been the case ever since

You dont want to admit that the Christian word did not originate from God, Jesus or any of the Apostles
which is why you're forever faffing around, and not answering the simple question about:
Did the early believers, disciples or Apostles explicitly called themselves Christians?

OLAADEGBU:
You are putting words into Agrippa's mouth here

No just repeating what Agrippa knows about the name the heathen at Antioch called the believers

OLAADEGBU:
Go back to the scriptures:

"Then Agrippa said to Paul, You almost persuade me to be a Christian.
And Paul said, I would to God, that not only you,
but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am,
except these bonds" (Acts 26:28-29)

You sure do notice that Paul didnt seize the opportunity to be called a Christian according to what Agrippa understood Christian to mean
but he opted for:
''... “Short time or long—I pray to God that not only you but all who are listening to me today may become what I am, except for these chains''

As earlier mentioned, the word Christian, did not originate from God, Jesus or any of the disciples,
and here is Paul, not latching on to an ample opportunity or not embracing the word in describing his mission with Agrippa

OLAADEGBU:
If you read the whole text with an open mind you will come to the conclusion that Paul was using strong persuassion to make King Agrippa become a Christian even though Agrippa put the decision off for political or financial reasons

If you read the whole text with an open mind you will come to the conclusion that Paul was using strong persuassion to save King Agrippa's soul
but Festus, thought Paul is crazy, and Agrippa concluded that Paul was trying to persuade him to be a Christian
Paul was into the soul winning business, and no doubt some souls that listened were saved (i.e. became all that Paul is, except for the handcuffs)
shame, the big fish Agrippa slipped the bait off the hook, and ate without getting caught by the fisherman's line

And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul?
Is anything worth more than your soul?
- Matthew 16:26

OLAADEGBU:
Speak for yourself

I rather tell it as it is, rather than speak for myself. Thank you very much.

OLAADEGBU:
I see, you are "the son of"

Have you any resevations over that?
Are you not a son of God?
Oh, or are you still a child of God?

OLAADEGBU:
I said one word

The ''morale-boosting'' compound or hyphenated word qualified it better and properly
but if you insist on one word, then we can settle with ENCOURAGEMENT

OLAADEGBU:
Just say that you are eager to call me nigger, don't keep it in the corner of your cheek, spit it out

I know you're too bright to think this has anything to do with eagerness to call anyone a nigger
You mentioned tautology for as necessary so as to drive home the clearness of a meaning, so I replied this can be argued with nigger too
If you arent comfy with nigger, why christian, afterall they both have hurtful undertone histories

OLAADEGBU:
Anyone who read the verses will know that the word Christians there refers to believers in Christ

Anyone who read the three verses will know that the word Christians there refers, to believers in Christ with a hurtful/insulting undertones

OLAADEGBU:
What's the difference between "learners" and "followers"? Both refer to the word "disciples" of Christ.

No there are distinctions and furthemore both words do not refer to disciples of Christ
First Christian in the context of those three verse has an etymology and meaning different to ''learner'' ''follower'' or ''disciple''
Just as Jesus in the Bible days, had some many followers, so today and now, we have so many people follow Jesus
People follow Jesus about for some many and different reasons
It is no different today, to the Bible days, where not all followers of Jesus, were disciples or learners.

Replying, disciples are followers and/or learners but not all followers are disciples or learners

You've again, refrained conveniently from answering back or absent mindedly still not responding to whether or not, the early believers or Apostles explicitly called themselves Christians?

OLAADEGBU:
There is no doubt that Paul was trying to persuade King Agrippa into becoming a Christian just as he (Paul) was except for the bonds

Paul was persuading King Agrippa, aiming to have him become just as Paul was except for the bonds and not to become the narrow-minded-dont-mind-looking-death-in-the-face Christian which is according to King Agrippa's understanding of what believers were

OLAADEGBU:
By the grace of God 'am a Christian

You really do not know what Christian is,
You really do not know the background behind the word
You really dont know what the word was all about.
Think of the era of usage, think Roman, think of the persecution of believers then, now think Caesar, think those loyalty to Caesar even when facing death, (i.e. Caesariani as that is what the followers of Caesar were called) now compare with believers in the face of adversity.
King Agrippa chose his derisive word carefully when he said Paul almost make him a Christian

Believers had this unshivering loyalty to Jesus, even to the point of death,
Many believers were persecuted by the Romans, suffered burnt at stakes, fed to the lions in Roman Colosseums etcetera but never once renounced or denounced their faith
So believers were given the Christian tag then, not as a compliment but with derisive undertones
- similar to when calling someone a negro/nigger is not necesarily complimentary
but is a slur with intent to insult and/or ridicule

OLAADEGBU:
What about you?

If you must know, am the son of the Most High God

That is why Christ did not honor himself by assuming he could become High Priest.
No, he was chosen by God, who said to him,
"You are my Son. Today I have become your Father."
- Hebrews 5:5

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God,
even to them that believe on his name:
- John 1:12

For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God
- Romans 8:14

OLAADEGBU:
If you are to use one word to describe the above, what will it be?

Morale-boosting