₦airaland Forum

Jeromejnr:
I want you to enlighten me on this scripture:

25Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother.
26The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh.
27Finally, the woman died.
28Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?”

29Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.
30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
31But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you,
32‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’b ? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

33When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at his teaching.

As to the issue of resurrection from the dead. And if saints are in heaven or paradise right now or not?

https://i57.tinypic.com/34sp9j4.gif
Enlighten you?
- see enticement with banana and an opened cage trap door, LOL
Next time, I rather you say or ask, what's my take
and not use ''enlighten me''

Jeromejnr:
Guy free me na. Your friend has given up since

I am a one-man MOPOL

Jeromejnr:
All so called scriptures you've brought I have countered them

Bhuhahaha-haa-ha
You made me laugh. In your dreams you have.

Jeromejnr:
Anytime you are ready, feel free to choke me with scriptures.

Just ask me what specifically you want scriptures to back up or support, then your wish will be my command

My gloves are not off yet, so it hasn't gone bloody yet :-)

Jeromejnr:
All you just said now was your own opinion. No scriptures at all. Just what you think

Is that what they now call facts and truth. Opinions? "Just what you think"?

Jeromejnr:
When you are ready to use scriptures to convey your point then tell me

Is this your get out of jail free card, get out of a corner card?
What have I been doing since the beginning of this thread?
You want me to choke you with scriptures when the ones already provided is giving you stomach ache, hmm?

OK if you tell me what exactly you need scriptures to back up with then I'll oblige your special request. Deal?

Jeromejnr:
MuttleyLaff! Leave me alone o. Haha.

Show me the white flag, then I'll give you a breather LOL

Jeromejnr:
My friend,

Prophesying the counsels of God is different from foretelling the future?

Tell me something I don't already know. I threw all in the mix so that you won't be tempted to manuvoure. I was spoiling you with choices.

Jeromejnr:
Familiar spirits can say something and with help of other spirits orchestrate an event to happen as they said

LOL listen to yourself doing confused.com
Familiar spirits with the help of other spirits indeed. So how and where do these other spirits get their help from.
You don't half made me laugh here - he-he-he

Jeromejnr:
But what we saw from that scripture, was what God was going to do and what He eventually did, the spirits can't orchestrate or move God's hand to do anything.

And usually if you know how evil foretelling works, they don't happen always as said and usually don't go as far into the future

and that for you is when allows a lying spirit have the day

Jeromejnr:
God does not use evil spirits to prophesy. That was why even as that slave girl said what we will call the truth concerning Paul and his partner, they still had to cast out that spirit

That is what you think bro.
What about when God allowed the lying spirits to enter the prophets in Israel so that they gave false prophesy?

Jeromejnr:
I mean, why didn't God just leave the Spirit in her since it was helping them "preach" the gospel?

That is God's prerogative. At the appropriate time He put an end and stop to it.

You only haven't learnt a lot today but you have a lot more to learn LOL

Jeromejnr:
You are saying what you yourself said.

OK then, what are you saying and implying about spirit?

Tell us, how did/do they come about their information, how do they come about the knowledge and ability to prophesy, predict or foretell?

Is it guesswork or they have privy to God's mind and plan.

Do they see into God's mind?

Tell us what, in your own words, you're saying about spirits etcetera

Isn't you who asked this question:
"How did the evil spirit know the counsel of God? or did God tell the spirit?"

Answer that too please, in your response to this post

Jeromejnr:
Read my reply to your Bros and don't be ignorant.

Typical response

What's your point here anyway?

That spirits know the mind of God, that they are able to prophesy, predict the future or foretell? Either cases without God permitting it or authorising it?

Isn't that what you're saying? That spirits are to some degree, all knowing just as much as the Omniscient God is, isn't it?

Jeromejnr:
From the classic example like you said.

The slave girl, did she foretell what God was going to do in ppl's lives?

How did the evil spirit know the counsel of God? or did God tell the spirit?

But yet we saw from Saul's case, what God was going to do was foretold.

You don't even know how foretelling works.

You na never jam questions yet

of course she did but you keep on playing the selective reading game.
Keep on conveniently ignoring already mentioned facts and truth that it's only when God allows it. Sogbo?

Do you not want to admit that nothing goes past God. That nothing happens without God allowing it. Even prophecy or is it foretelling, as you want to hide behind that word. LOL

Reiterating, God allowed the familiar spirit and that young girl to prophesy.

Go brush up or dust up your Bible to read about God giving prophets to lying spirits

Nothing happens or gets done on earth, especially if it is going to go against that rule "let man have dominion on earth etc" without God's saying so or authorisation.

Spirits don't have the mandate to operate on earth. They are only allowed if God permits.

Anyone that wants to operate on earth needs a body, without one that operation is done illegally, ALSO unless if God permits them to bypass the protocol or rule like that familiar spirit at Endor, Moses & Elijah at the mount of Transfiguration etcetera

Jozzy4:
Keep deluding yourself bro

Act 16:16-19 , a servant girl that had the spirit of PRedIction , she predict future happenings perfectly that her masters made HUGE PROFIT from it .

I pity ya .

You dey mind him, the delusion is legendary gan ni.
Told me God allows the spirits to predict whenever He deems fit

That one you pointed too is another classic example, but you know our friend won't bulge, first want to hear it or wouldn't have none of it

Jeromejnr:
@ MuttleyLaff ...You were told by your Sunday school teachers it was a familiar spirit, we were all told.

But if you had studied the scriptures, you would have known that a familiar spirit or an evil
spirit cannot prophesy the future.

They only know the past or the present.

Go and study the book of Jeremiah.

Sorry to burst your bubble I do, the Sunday schooling, myself to others
this isnt a ''told by your Sunday school teachers'' case

Now @Jeromejnr, were you not taught by the Spirit of Truth
or did the Spirit of Truth not reveal to you that God ALLOWED the familiar spirit, to the relish & ''win lottery'' delight of the spirit, to prophesy?
The witch was a 419, which is why she got the shock and fright of her life when an unexpected spirit and an actually talking one showed up

Keep on digging yourself deeper in the ground you're stubbornly holed in

Jeromejnr:
Well, I know folks that have gotten involved with such.
And they don't get exact prophecies of things to come.

The spirits only know what is happening. So you mean to tell me evil spirits have the power to forsee events?

Now that is new. Even Tarot card readers or crystal ball gazers only focus on the past and the present.

Old boy, SMH, look at the questions you're asking. SMH
(i.e. So you mean to tell me evil spirits have the power to forsee events?)
Of course they dont get exact prophecies
because they are merely using high technique guess works
based on being familiar when the person and events surrounding the person's life etcetera
but when God allows/permits it, they prophesy 100% correct
Sometimes God allows them and/or false prophets to mis-prophesy and/or prophesy jargons

Jozzy4:
Eeyah, very soon you will say God have intestines, kidney, pancreas and that he literally roar like a Lion . And at least since you have p*nis , he have too! Guy you are commiting grave errors .

Go and read up Anthropomorphic expressions.

Like in the brief explanation above

Jeromejnr:
So your point is God does not have a tongue?.

Why is it that most human beings, just prefer to act like they don't have the capacity to think?

Why?

Who knows, maybe your the type that swallows everything you hear from the pulpit.
If they tell you swallow snake you will swallow snake.

What point are you even trying to make sef for God's sake. What does this toungues issue have to do with anything.
If not that the person I was debating with was just going round the world looking for something to say.

I just with saw the thread you opened and I understood where the problem lies. Why don't you ask the Holy Sprit (that is if you believe in Him anyway) to help you in understanding His word.

Chai! Na wa o.

Haba, how you manage as, you're about rapidly falling from hand on this one bro

Jozzy4:
The same reason he doesnt have a p*nis or blood.
You need to understand anthropomorphic expressions

A rich MAN begs for physical water to cool HIS TONGUE .

And you take that literally, whereas you know his tongue has been buried with him in the grave .

You need to think.

He doesnt understand that parables, hyperboles and anthropomorphism are used to get message across by ''painting pictures'', using exaggerations and using personifications to come down to a level we can relate with to understand the message

Jeromejnr:
Okay, I have heard sir. Spirits don't have a tongue they just speak through *********(fill in the blank)

The rich man's tongue was an expression for *******(fill in the blank)

He had a mouth to beg but not a tongue.

Yea I get.

''a mouth to beg but not a tongue'' please note, we dont always communicate with the mouth you know
Or need the tongue to communicate.

Sure you've heard of the phrase ''idi ti o nsọrọ''?
Shey yansh get tongue ni?

This ought to settle it for you bro
Food for thought
Jesus glorifed body after He resurrected? Remember it?

John 20:26
A week later Jesus' disciples were again in the house, and Thomas was with them.
Even though the doors were locked, Jesus stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!"

chikweezy:
Yeaa...I think he has goofed too. He seems to have a knack for bringing in very unrelated events into an argument thereby complicating wat could have been a simple, straight4wrd issue i.e talking about Saul and Samuel

Dont mind him, bringing in familiar spirits into the mix

chikweezy:
even Moses and Elijah wia I have mentioned even with biblical ref that those guys neva died and so should definetly no fit into this kind of argument especially given the event of Elijahs demise stated explicitly in the bible(caught up they a chariot of fire) and even the fact that there is no record of moses being buried. OK let us look at this again how would those DAT died before Jesus be judged with the same standard as we born after Him - given dat dia was no Christ den to believe in, and the blood of goats and animals wia only used to atone for sins, not blotted out (paper over cracks)

Moses and Elijah both died bro.
I can dig up a thread on which this Moses and Elijah subject was earlier explained.
Or just thrawl through my posts to find it, otherwise it is for another day's explanation

chikweezy:
Don't you think dat the standard of their judgement will be different?

This is where we should be thankful that God is a Just God. He can be trusted to be have a listening ear as all make account of themselves, as well as be fair after considering all the evidences, circumstances etcerera
He, by the way is going to be firm but fair
Also all will have the FREE service of the best Advocate available , to argue individual cases for them

chikweezy:
Also, talking about pple going into their bodies after it has been mutilated. Like seriously, we are dust for Christ sake and d bible says we would return to dust. Therefore, the soul has no part to play with the dead body. Come to think of it, how will souls of men be in either paradise or hell (according to you) then later dey will go for judgement. That is not biblical in any way./quote]Bro, it is 110% biblical, please make no mistake of that
You do know that ''the life of the flesh/body is in the blood, and that the life of the SOUL is in the spirit/breath?
Also you surely have read if not yet in the bible, at least on this thread,
about ''people having the power to kill the body but God has the power to kill both body and soul''

[quote author=chikweezy post=37297231]Mind you, I am not a proponent of the soul-sleeping concept, however, among the several school of thought surrounding this understanding within the christendom, it seems the most plausible and biblical. i.e that man will only resurrect into eternal life and others following the white throne judgement into eternal damnation. Please think through this.

''soul-sleeping concept'' means the soul is only conscious in the realm of the dead
and not conscious of happenings going on in the land of the living

There is nothing personal in ''eternal damnation'',
it's just as there is nothing personal when at the end of day, you throw stale or out of date stuff from the kitchen into the rubbish can

''eternal damnation'' simply means permanent and irrevocable get rid off

Jozzy4:
Dream indeed

Sorry,

Show us the scripture that says, God a spirit being without flesh and blood have tongue ?

chikweezy:
OK...it obvious dias no point again. You have taken so many scriptures at face value.
May God help us.

May God help us indeed.
Jeromejnr, similarly, as can be seen from the below excerpt,
an earlier to VLadipo surely seems to be dreaming and taking this anthropomorphism of a thing too far

VLadipo you seem to be taking the anthropomorphism and anthropopathism in the Bible literally

To get biblical messages "understood", attribution of human form (e.g. noses, eyes, ears, etcetera)
or other characteristics (e.g. smelling, seeing, watching etcetera) to beings (e.g. God) other than humans,
is used in the Bible, often as a method of describing the moment or event with things/physical features we as humans relate to

It's like when adults play with babies and they come down to the babies' level,
by starting to do baby-talk, making speech-like sounds produced by babies.
Adults dont talk like that but in want of communicate with the babies, they temporarily adopt this manner of talk, the babies can relate with

As with the baby-talk above, views and interactions with God in the Bible, uses language of human personality, characteristics, features and activities to communicate with us

Anyway, God is noncorporeal, so any anthropomorphism, anthropopathism or personifications used in the Bible or other literature is to make sure the communicated messages gets across understood

Examples of Personification:
1) The long ARM of the law caught up with him
2) The moon WINKED at me through the clouds above
3) The car BECKONED me from across the showroom
4) The lagoon DANCED in the moonlight.
5) Tamedo didn't realize that opportunity WAS KNOCKING at his door
6) Time creeps up on you

God has means or mechanisms to appreciate, approve etcetera, but they arent humanoid or physical in nature

John 4:24
God is a SPIRIT: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth

1 Timothy 1:17
Now unto the King eternal, immortal, INVISIBLE, the only wise God,
be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

https://www.nairaland.com/2493568/scriptures-expounded-lord-also-sense/1#36988951

Nice effort. Very good...
but is it in public knowledge that there is a conflict of opinion out there about the number?
That the controversy is about whether the ''mark of the beast'' is number 666 or number 616?

The truth is, the devil has done at good job of selling us a red herring and as usual uses the backdoor to slip something in
- Infomaz, a lot of people will be surprised what the REAL ''mark of the beast'' will boil down to
and that is really has nothing to do with a number per se, receiving marks, stamping stuff on foreheads etcetera

It must be said that, yes, the ''end is truly near, and that we dear people need to be watchful and careful in all we do''
as the ''Seal of God'' and the ''Mark of the beast'', as we all SHOULD know, are BOTH, NOT physical seals or marks
They BOTH, have to do with ''what you think with the head'' and ''what you do with the hand''

https://s15.postimg.org/x50z3l6tj/Seal_Naija.jpg
^{Seal of the President of Nigeria}

Seals are about authenticity, validation etcetera
Authenticity is about genuineness, prove it's not fake etcetera
Validation means something is right something is done right, some one is doing/has done something right
Unlike like the Naija President's seal above which is a physical seal, 'the 'Seal of God'' and the ''Mark of the beast'' is a spiritual one
- ''what you think with the head'' and ''what you do with the hand'' spiritually

MARK this - sorry for the ''MARK'' pun, it wasnt intentional,
Now, MARK this, ''Seal of God'' and the ''Mark of the beast'' will be important and be a deciding factor when the terrible time comes
The ''Seal of God'' or the ''Mark of the beast'' separates the sheep from the goats

Trust me, for anyone around at that time, fight or flight WOULDN'T BE an option.
As for anyone around at that time, such one, will have to make or be forced to make a stand, by choosing life or death.

That coming terrible time will be more like Daniel in the Lion's Den or a Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego déjà vu
(i.e. it will boil down to: comply and self-preserve OR do not comply and be killed)

Excerpt from: https://www.nairaland.com/2489697/please-beware-drink-pictures/1#36520446

^^^@dolphinheart
so what in three sentences is the summary for those verbose LONG & WINDY three posts going to be?

dolphinheart:
@ jeromejnr
@ jozzy4
@ mizjanet
@ muttleylaff

My understanding of who man is , the spirit in man and what happens at death. (part 2)

Now that I've shown my view on man being flesh , ill go into my view of what the spirit in man really is.

In surpport and continuation of what is recorded in genesis 2:7 we read this in job

"The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life" - job 33: 4

Now is that breathe of life/ spirit the man, Part of man or just a force that enables man to be alive and live . Let's look at the scriptures for answer.

If he should set his heart to it and gather to himself his spirit and his breath, all flesh would perish together, and man would return to dust. - job 34:14,15

From this verse I learn that
(a) God can gather the spirit he have man back to himself if he wants to , hence ending the life of such man (a view that goes along with death)
(b) flesh/ man will perish if God does this .
(c) for a fact that it says man will perish means the spirit is not man but a force that makes him to stay alive, not perish , not return to dust.
(d) I noticed that the word "spirit" is used here , not "spirits " when it was talking about men (more than one person) do humans have the same spirit ? i.e the spirit or force in me is the same spirit or force in you?


"When you hide your face, they are terrified; when you take away their breath, they die and return to the dust.
When you send your Spirit, they are created, and you renew the face of the ground.


I learnt here that
(a) man/ animals / living things that has the breathe in it die and return to the dust.
(b) it did not say "part of man returns to the dust" or "flesh of man returns to the dust" it said "they" in reference to all living thing with breath return to the dust.
(c ) this verses goes along with the issue of man in genesis and ecclestiastis .
(d) this verses goes along with the view that man is "flesh" and not "spirit" or "spirit in flesh"
(e) I noticed again that the word "spirit" is used and not "spirits ". Do we all have one spirit operating in all of us?.


"Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:" -isa 42:5

I learnt here that
(a) the breathe of life is more than just breathe.I it includes a force that enables us to live.
(b) The breath sustains man
existence, the spirit energizes and is the life-force that enables man to be an animated creature, to move, walk, be actively alive. This is further butressed when we read acts 17: 25,28 .
(c) I noticed again here that the word "spirit" is used instead of "spirits". Does this mean that it is the same spirit that God gave all mankind .

Taken from a source:
(((While nesha·mahʹ (breath) and ruʹach (spirit; active force; life- force) are sometimes used in a parallel sense, they are not identical. True, the “spirit,” or ruʹach, is at times spoken of as though it were the respiration (nesha·mahʹ) itself, but this seems to be simply because breathing is the prime visible evidence of the life-force in one’s body.— Job 9:18; 19:17; 27:3. Thus at Ezekiel 37:1-10 the symbolic vision of the valley of dry bones is presented, the bones coming together, becoming covered with sinews, flesh, and skin, but “as regards breath [weruʹach], there was none in them.” Ezekiel was told to prophesy to “the wind[ha·ruʹach],” saying, “From the four winds [form of ruʹach] come in, O wind, and blow upon these killed people, that they may come to life.” The reference to the four winds shows that wind is the appropriate rendering for ruʹach in this case. However,
when such “wind,” which is simply air in motion, entered the nostrils of the dead persons of the vision, it became “breath,” which is also air in motion. Thus, the rendering of ruʹach as “breath” at this point of the account ( vs 10) is also more appropriate than “spirit” or “life- force.” Ezekiel also would be able to see the bodies begin to breathe, even though he could not see the life-force, or spirit,
energizing their bodies. As verses 11-14 show, this vision was symbolic of a spiritual (not physical) revivification of the people of Israel who were for a
time in a spiritually dead state due to their Babylonian exile.

Since they were already physically alive and breathing, it is logical to render ruʹach as “spirit” in verse 14, where God states that he will put ‘his spirit’ in his people so that they would become alive, spiritually speaking.)))

" And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them." - Gen 6:17

"And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.- Gen 7 :15:22

The verses above shows us that the breathe of life/ spirit is present in both man and animals.
The verses below surpport, butress and cormfirm the on above .

"I said to myself, “This happens concerning people, so that God may test them and they may see for themselves that they are like animals.” For the fate of people and the fate of animals is the same. As one dies, so dies the other; they all have the same breath. People have. no advantage over animals since everything is futile. 20 All are going to the same place; all come from dust, and all return to dust.

"I said in my heart concerning the matter of the sons of man that God might cleanse them, so as to see that they themselves [are] beasts.
For an event [is to] the sons of man, and an event [is to] the beasts, even one event [is] to them; as the death of this, so [is] the death of that; and one spirit [is] to all, and the advantage of man above the beast is nothing, for the whole [is] vanity. 20 The whole are going unto one place, the whole have been from the dust, and the whole are turning back unto the dust.- eccl 3:18-20

From this verses I learned that
(a) the spirit, breathe God gave man is same as that of animals (b) there is only one spirit in all men, ur spirit/life force is no different from mine. Hence the use of the word "spirit" and not "spirits " when using it in reference to all mankind.
(c) the bible has been consistent with the fact that man is dust, man is flesh ,cus flesh is dust.
(d) it is clear that now that the “spirit,” or life-force or breathe of life is impersonal(it is not the man)

With all the verses above I'm able to learn that the spirit in man , same spirit in all men is not man, but a force that enables that man to live, to become animate , to function, to move, to become a soul . Man must sustain that spirit in the body or that spirit in the body will not sustain man .

This view is further supported by the scriptures below.

"Do not trust in princes, In mortal man, in whom there is no salvation.
His spirit departs, he returns to the earth ; In that very day his thoughts perish".

"Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
His breath goes forth, he returns to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish." -ps 146:4

I've learnt from this verse that
(a) these writer supports all the other writers quoted so far .
(b) that all of them mentioned who or what man is in relation to his spirit
(c)that none of them ever related man to be "spirit " or "spirit in a flesh "
(d) that all the writers surpport the fact that man as a being returns to dust when he dies.
(e) that the spirit (not man), goes out (some went further to say "goes to God who gave it! (the "it" there signifies its inpersonal.)
Will continue in my next post

As the saying goes: slow and steady, wins the race
I read you touching and picking up ''breath/spirit'' there. Well done...
It is going to be interesting to see what you'll post next
and see how you end up getting the ship in port, safe
as what so far you've posted has already in some shape or form already been talked o suggested

Am waiting for you to tidy up your post before properly responding
(i.e. you can do this by putting[/quote]at the end of ''...as recognised by Peter, James or John?'')
You've goofed by bringing in Saul and the Witch of Endor in to this

Jeromejnr:
What does this your question have to do with anything?

It was how you brought Moses and Elijah in with soul ''sleeping''

Jeromejnr:
What point are you trying to prove sef?

Have you never thought about how Moses and Elijah was recognised by Peter, James or John?

The point, actually is that though Peter, James or John saw Moses and Elijah
Moses and Elijah didnt acknowledge nor were not conscious of them
Those in the realm of the dead are not conscious of what is going in the land of living
The rule was relaxed for Peter, James or John, to at the least see Moses and Elijah
Apart from Jesus none of them were or had any interaction with Moses and Elijah

Jeromejnr:
BTW, its like you were a fan of the wacky races .

I just like the mutt's sniggers as I like and enjoy laughing.
Speedy Gonzales is more up my alley

Jeromejnr:

Jeromejnr:
I just answered some of your questions.

[img]http://media4./media/mmRmDX9Y3Q7NS/200w.gif[/img]
You've answered jack nothing, and by the way, I only asked you one question
as in:
Lastly for now, food for thought.
How were Moses and Elijah recognised by Peter, James or John
They both existed hundred of years before Peter, James or John were born
- point is, the spirit doesnt need physical mouth to eat, physical eyes to recognise
Peter, James or John's spirit recognised Moses and Elijah,
just like John the Baptist recognised Jesus when they both were in the womb

Jeromejnr:
Enlighten yourself with this
https://www.nairaland.com/2544404/difference-between-hell-sheol-paradise/1#37259527

Are you a robot?
If not why are ''Enlighten yourself with this'' repeating yourself after asking you to compare your content
You've a habit which is just as bad as most of the chaps here

Tjayjosh:
When i told that man is triune. This is what i meant:
And the lord God formed man of the dust of the ground (Body),
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life (spirit);
and man became a living (soul).

The soul and the spirit is the non material part of you that never dies, that is why the scripture uses the term spirit and soul interchangeably.
The soul is who you are, it is a part of your SPIRITUAL component.
This is your individuality, your "I AM" so to speak (made in God's image), your "heart."

Although your individual soul did not exist before your mother and father procreated you, it will exist forever.

It cannot be killed by man:
"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul:
but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."(Matt. 10:28 KJV)

When your body dies your soul (YOU) will leave the flesh:
"And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him called him Benjamin."
(Genesis 35:18 KJV)

There you go Jozzy4, its a wrap
if you can just humbly think about Tjayjosh's all the above and what so far was posted today, you'll be sorted with getting the understanding

Jozzy4:
rubish.

Two Gods that are not one

They are one alright
only that you obviously dont know who Agent Smith is
I recommend you go watch the movie in order to get a handle on this
- Agent Smith is not even remotely divine, yet pulls it off

Jozzy4:
if truly they are one why didnt God the father died when the other God the son died?

I'll repeat it, as it seems to conveniently chose to ignore the earlier response
God the Father, is a totally divine being which cannot die
God the Son was part human part divine, it was the human part that biologically died

Jeromejnr:
Mark 9:48 "If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell, where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED. "For everyone will be salted with fire.…

This isnt verse Mark 9:48 but rather it should be Mark 9:47

Not really wanting to do a Priscilla & Aquila-Apollos here nor rain on your parade
#1) You have a good work here but you still ought to compare its contents with what I posted in the below link
https://www.nairaland.com/1923809/lake-fire-hell-what-difference/1#34753696

#2) chikweezy is right, you seem to have taken the soul-sleeping concept too far
#3) Jozzy4 is right, you seem not to understand how Jesus was using a hyperbole with Mark 9:48
#4) You're muddling up Sheol with Hell /Hades which is Greek mythology in origin
and also muddling up Sheol with Gehenna which is a refuse dump site in Jerusalem
#5) Jozzy4 is right about Matthew 13:34-35,
as, Jesus was merely using these parables or Jerusalem's Gehenna or Abraham and Lazarus in Sheol, as allegories to get a message home.
#6) See how Jozzy4 is about having a field day making mockery of what and how you posted it

Lastly for now, food for thought.
How were Moses and Elijah recognised by Peter, James or John
They both existed hundred of years before Peter, James or John were born
- point is, the spirit doesnt need physical mouth to eat, physical eyes to recognise
Peter, James or John's spirit recognised Moses and Elijah,
just like John the Baptist recognised Jesus when they both were in the womb

dolphinheart:
@ jeromejnr
@ jozzy4
@ mizjanet
@ muttleylaff

My understanding of who man is , the spirit in man and what happens at death. (part 1)

The scriptures says these at the creation of adam, the first man.

"And the LORD God formed
man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils
the breath of life; and man
became a living soul." -Gen 2:7
From this verse above, I Learnt the following.
(a) that man is formed from the dust.
(b)the verse did not say man came into the body or God blew man into the body.
(c) that the spirit in man can be described as the breathe of life (d) that man was in existence before breathe came into him , though he did not have life.
(e) that god formed our flesh from dust.
(that that man was not giving a soul but became a soul.

Later , after judgement was passed on to the man cus he sinned, the process at which he came alive was reversed which showed to me that death is the opposite of life.

By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.” - Gen 3: 19.

I learnt that
(a) man came from the dust and no where else .for that verse says "from it you "(the man, adam) "where taken".
(b) the verse did not say "part of you came from the dust" nor did it say " I remove you from that dust I formed".
(c) the verse re emphasised the " you" and "dust" again by stating " for dust you are " .this shows again that the "you"(man/adam) is dust .
(d) this dust was formed into flesh by God and made a soul(become alive) by blowing the breathe of life into it .
(e)that this process is reversed when that breathe/spirit leaves the flesh and this process is called dying , with the end called death.
(f) that at death, man/adam returns to dust and no where else for God told adam in that verse " to dust you(adam/man) will return ".

With that understanding of the creation of man, what man is and what happens to him at death, I now go further into the scriptures to 1. Find additional points to surpport this views and 2. Find out the condition of man after death.

"And, behold, I, even I, do bring
a flood of waters upon the
earth, to destroy all flesh,
wherein is the breath of life,
from under heaven; and every
thing that is in the earth shall
die." - Gen 6:17.

The verse above shows that the flesh that is living has the breathe of life /spirit in it .

"And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years."- Gen 6:3

This verse shows me that
(a) God refers to man as "flesh", not as "spirit which is present in man" or as "spirit".
(b) other translations use " only flesh " "mortal " "he is flesh"

"And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.- Gen 6:12

This verse helps me understand that
(a) again God who created man called man "flesh" and not "spirit in flesh" or "spirit" . God specifically said "flesh"
(b) that it is the flesh that will be purnished .
(c) that adding this with the initial quotes , that flesh will be purnished with the reversal of live , which is death.

To surpport this view other writers said thus below:

"For he remembered that they
were but flesh; a wind that
passeth away, and cometh not
again."

"He remembered that they
were only flesh, a wind that
passes and does not return."- ps 78: 39

" as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed
our transgressions from us.
As a father has compassion on his children, so the LORD has
compassion on those who fear him; for he knows how we
are formed, he remembers that we are dust.
The life of mortals is like grass,
they flourish like a flower of the field;" - ps 103: 13-15

We are dust, we are mortals, we are flesh .

"For all flesh is as grass, and
all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord
endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you. - 1 pet 1: 24,25.

"For the LORD will execute
judgment by fire And by His
sword on all flesh, And those
slain by the LORD will be
many."

"For by fire and by his sword
will the LORD plead with all
flesh: and the slain of the
LORD shall be many." - isa 66 :16

"And all flesh shall see the
salvation of God." Luke 3:6

Note: it is not derived , god said man is flesh.

To be continued in my next post

You are doing well bro
So far, so good, the rudimentary knowledge and fundamental basic facts are spot on.
I like the way you're crawling before you change and switch gear to speed up and gather momemtum for the additional stuff
(i.e. like when you will move on from flesh or body, unto soul and spirit/breath, when you'll touch on how the created Adam became a living soul,
like when you'll touch on the dual meaning of Sheol, as at times, its a grave and at the other time, its like an ''airport transit lounge'' etcetera)
All, up to this point are satisfactory but I cant vouch to say similar when you continue in your next post
Keenly looking forward to read what next you have to post

Jozzy4:
Dont be scared, am a Beliver

You are slacking if you trully and really are a believer.
Brush up the bible man, seems you're at risks of developing truth decay

Jozzy4:
Again: None of this verses say Jesus is a sinner

Of course, none says Jesus is a sinner,
nor has anyone here or elsewhere suggested that Jesus was or is a sinner

Jozzy4:
so how could he be spiritually dead

Jesus wasnt spiritually dead
How can He have ever be spiritually dead, if in Luke 23:46 He cried with a loud voice saying:
"Father, into your hands I commit my spirit."

Note, this is not to say he later didnt die spiritually, as He did, when He gave up the breath/spirit

Remember the saying: the life of the flesh is in the blood and the life of the soul is in the breath/spirit

Moving on a bit, out of seven words uttered on the cross, the dying last four words of Jesus Christ were:
4) Matthew 27:46 & Mark 15:34 - My God, My God, ...
5) John 19:28 - I thirst.
6) John 19:30 - It is finished (or "It is accomplished'')
7) Luke 23:46 - Father, into your hands I commit my spirit

Please note these above verses informs us of the dying moments of Jesus Christ on the cross
it however, are verses like Mark 15:37, Luke 23:46 and John 19:30 that emphatically shows us how and when Jesus died spiritually

Mark 15:37
Then Jesus uttered another loud cry and breathed his last.

Luke 23:46
Jesus called out with a loud voice,
"Father, into your hands I commit my spirit."
When he had said this, he breathed his last

John 19:30
When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished."
With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

Jozzy4 hope you noticed among the above verses how and to whom Jesus Christ surrendered or succumbed His spirit to

dolphinheart:
No you have not answered the questions sir.
Where does the bible say the spirit goes after death.

Does the bible say the spirit die?.

My question is, when did that your spirit enter ur form in flesh.
The scripture you quoted said nothing about ur spirit.

What does the bible say happens to you when you die ? Does the bible say you lose consciousness?

Jeromejnr:
Okay, Okay, Lets trace our steps back.
What point are you trying to drive at? cause I have been debating with so many ppl I dont even remember why we even started this debate.

What are we trying to reason at now?

dolphinheart, Ol boy, go over all the posts submitted today,
all you've repeated above have been abundantly and judiciously answered and backed up with various and all kinds of verses.

Dont say you want to be spoon-fed, or is it you want it bottled up as milk. Haba.

MizJanet:
Two Gods, Really?

One God, who can be at more than one place at the same time.

Let me bring it home to you, more down to where you can relate with this, without it going over your head

Think of Agent Smith. Hmm, yeah, something like him only that Agent Smith isnt divine.

MizJanet:
A God dies while the other God is alive .

I think everyone is now accustomed to your legendary display of ignorance

After helping you modifying your remark, yes, in a roundabout way, you actually are right ''God dies while the same God is alive''
but hey, am going to feed your ignorance a bit, please dont to choke on it, else you'll throw up
God in the person of God the Son, Jesus Christ who came as man with the divine nature,
obviously as a human being, died a biological death, the spirit/breath left Him, after He exhaled and drew His last breath
so the fact is, it wasnt the death of God the Father, who is Spirit and a totally divine being who died

MizJanet:
You have just proved the point. Death is a loss of consciosness

Yes, besides varying degrees of deatrh and the different types or kinds of death, the loss of consciosness is relative

MizJanet:
Lol @ underlined, only his useless flesh dies While the real jesus himself escapes death

His flesh was sinless. He was a sinless man. No sin was found in Him
Lots of others such Pilate, the Roman guards etcetera attested to this truth

Did you really think His flesh was useless?
Madam, I asked before but will re-ask again.
Are you familiar with with the facts that, the life of the flesh is in the blood and the life of the soul is in the breath/spirit?

MizJanet:
, cant stop laughing

I will curtail that laughter if I were you,
as this is serious soul saving business,
besides on that day, boys wont be laughing,
instead there will be more of weeping and gnashing of teeth when thrown out after sighting Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God

MizJanet:
But your bible always paint sinners as spiritually dead, isnt it?

Tell us something we all dont already know

MizJanet:
Wow, you just proved jesus is a sinner too for dying spiritual

It proves nothing, except for, that Jesus was ready and willing to lay down His life
Everyone know John 3:16, why dont you?

MizJanet:
Your own case is special, must you comment

Must you want to muzzle

MizJanet:
Contradicts himself

If it will make you feel better so be it
You would have understood, only if you are familiar with verses like Psalm 90:2

Psalm 90:2
Before the mountains were born, before you gave birth to the earth and the world, you were God.
You are God from everlasting to everlasting.

Answer this question: When God the Son, Jesus Christ died on the cross, did God the Father stop existing? Did God cease to exist?

MizJanet:
God never dies, but your God still choose to die and eventually died

So?
The Good part you conveniently left out was that God the Son Jesus Christ resurrected which means the end justified whatever means God chose

MizJanet:
MUST u comment?

Twice you asking this question.
There isn't anything hurting in my comments except if the truth hurts

Jeromejnr:
So yes the spirit never dies(loose consciousness) but can die (be separated from God)

MizJanet:
read what you wrote up there, confuse man.
Thats what happen when a lie is been fabricated . It has to be twisted and twisted like uv done above.

Madam it is you, plying confused.com with your militant and uncalmingly argumentative spirit

.......................

MizJanet:
An average christian admit Flesh DIE means flesh died, it decays and cease to exist, unconscious

Of course the flesh died, it decays and cease to exist
but its soul, though, conscious in the realm of the dead
it is unconscious of things happening in the land of the living (i.e. it sleeps)

Man afterall, is made of body, soul and spirit
- the Body returning back to the ground aka earth, is what Genesis 3:19, Ecclesiastes 3:20 and the former part of Ecclesiastes 12:7 is all about
- the Soul sleeping in the grave aka Sheol is what Psalms 89:48 and Daniel 12:2 are all about
- and spirit returning back to God is what the latter part of Ecclesiastes 12:7 is all about

Madam, are you familiar with with the facts that, the life of the flesh is in the blood and the life of the soul is in the breath/spirit?

MizJanet:
That agrees with the meaning of death. That simply shows you people know the meaning of death but only decide to twist.

It means that you're trying to find comfort in an absolute meaning of death

MizJanet:
MY QUESTION: did Jesus died a physical or spiritual death? Keyword "sacrifice" .

Lets start from there
Answer ...

Good question and here is the straighforward short and simple answer to it.
Yes! He died both physical and spiritual death

MizJanet:
@ JeromeJnr

Stop this lies

Death is death, total opposite of life.

There are varying degrees and different types or kinds of death

MizJanet:
An evidence that you religiotard guys are bunch of liers is the fact that you say " THE FLESH DIE",
in that context you understand that death is death, it dies. It cease to exist

We have now seen the true meaning of death

As earlier pointed there are varying degrees and different types or kinds of death

MizJanet:
You said the real you is your spirit

The real us, is our souls, we became a living soul when God breathed into us
and when we die, the soul goes to sleep, as when it crosses over, it turns into a state of unconsciousness to affairs on this side of things

Also, at this point, naturally, the breath of God which kept the soul alive before it gave up the breath/ghost/spirit returns to God at death
and at the end of it all, it is the soul that will sing like a canary and tell everything it knows before God about the life lived on earth

Arghh. Too much basics to explain here, too much foundation & groundwork to lay down first
e.g. trying to draw attention to the facts that, the life of the flesh is in the blood and the life of the soul is in the breath/spirit

We ought to take notice of 1 Thessalonians 5:23 and Hebrews 4:12 below

1 Thessalonians 5:23
But The God of peace shall make all of you perfectly holy
and shall keep your whole spirit, soul and body
without fault for the arrival of our Lord Yeshua The Messiah.

Hebrews 4:12
God's word is living and active.
It is sharper than any two-edged sword
and cuts as deep as the place where soul and spirit meet, the place where joints and marrow meet.
God's word judges a person's thoughts and intentions

MizJanet:
and you are saying it cant die or cease to exist.

If you had thoroughly and carefully followed the entire thread, you would have spotted from the posts, the dfferences and distinctions between body, soul and spirit

MizJanet:
MY QUESTION: How could you claim Jesus die for your sins, since the real person called Jesus is a spirit that never dies?

God the Father is a Spirit who turned up on earth in human form, as God the Son, Jesus Christ.
Please dont get this twisted sister
God never dies,
and even if He chose to die, if He chose to lay down His life, He has the power as He already has demonstrated to take back His lfe

Jeromejnr:
1. Sacrifice yourself to save others

2. Dying from pure 100 orgasmic joy from all your wildest sexual fantasies being brought to reality all at the same time, and then being reincarnated so you can play Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare.

3. In your sleep

4. After finishing everything on your bucketlist

5. Fighting for your country in a war

6. Dying of happiness

7. Being Saved by Jesus Christ Before You Die

8. Laughing to death

9. Listening to your favourite song

10. To die fighting for the people you love most

Source: http://www.thetoptens.com/best-ways-die/

cheekilicious:
No 8 tho.

a self destructing megalomaniac would love #8, laughing to death at blowing the earth up

As for me, all of them put together, don't anytime, beat ''la petite mort''
This is the pre-post-orgasmic state of unconsciousness one has, right just before start of and near the beginning of finishing of jigijigi coming.
- ''la petite mort'' is the French phrase that literally expresses this ''little death" experience

dolphinheart:
Sir, "spirtual dead " is totally different from 'spirit dying".
Show me scripture that says spirit die.
So if spirit die and body dies, which one remains conscious after death.?

Note, you did not answer the question concerning the spirit in you.

Your anticipated answers follows in most of the below posts after each of Jeromejnr's quote

Jeromejnr:
And I've long answered this question u asked. But you've refused to get it.

If you are, who, I think you are, I've sent you an email

Jeromejnr:
My spirit (the real me) came directly from God
and existed in eternity before even creation of the world in the mind of God.

Genesis 2:7 and Zechariah 12:1 confirms this but I just lurve 1 Corinthians 2:11

Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Zechariah 12:1
This message concerning the fate of Israel came from the LORD:
"This message is from the LORD,
who stretched out the heavens, laid the foundations of the earth, and formed the human spirit

1 Corinthians 2:11
After all, who knows everything about a person except that person's own spirit?
In the same way, no one has known everything about God except God's Spirit.

The real us, however, is our souls, we became a living soul when God breathed into us
and when we die, the soul goes to sleep, as when it crosses over, it turns into a state of unconsciousness to affairs on this side of things

Also, at this point, naturally, the breath of God which kept the soul alive before it gave up the breath/ghost/spirit returns to God at death
and at the end of it all, it is the soul that will sing like a canary and tell everything it knows before God about the life lived on earth

Arghh. Too much basics to explain here, too much foundation & groundwork to lay down first
e.g. trying to draw attention to the facts that, the life of the flesh is in the blood and the life of the soul is in the breath/spirit

We ought to take notice of 1 Thessalonians 5:23 and Hebrews 4:12 below

1 Thessalonians 5:23
But The God of peace shall make all of you perfectly holy
and shall keep your whole spirit, soul and body
without fault for the arrival of our Lord Yeshua The Messiah.

Hebrews 4:12
God's word is living and active.
It is sharper than any two-edged sword
and cuts as deep as the place where soul and spirit meet, the place where joints and marrow meet.
God's word judges a person's thoughts and intentions

Jeromejnr:
I was only just given a form in the flesh when I was In my Mothers womb.
As God said "before you were born I knew you and formed you in your mothers womb."

Jeremiah 1:5
"Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you.
Before you were born, I set you apart for my holy purpose. I appointed you to be a prophet to the nations."

Just like how, before a magnificient house was built, it was first known ABSTRACTLY,
as in, the idea about the build was formed in the architect and client's head before the build's actual construction,
- it was first known as an idea, then was on paper before it was known, on ground
similarly so, Jeremiah 1:5 means, we existed in God's Thought
or existed as an idea of His, before having our physical existence or before being given form in the flesh when we were in our mothers wombs.

Jeromejnr:
What is the second death?

This is like the original Gehenna of Jerusalem, the refuse or dump site at the outskirt of Jerusalem
It is where and how souls, death and Sheol/Hell/Hades are thoroughly and permanently gotten rid of

Revelation 20:13-14 explains and paints a beautiful picture of this, better than I would, so here it is:

Revelation 20:13-14
¹³And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them,
and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
¹⁴Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire.
This is the second death, the lake of fire.

Jeromejnr:
Final separation of spirits from God in the eternal lake of fire.

Correctly, it is more of separation and destruction of souls than a ''final separation of spirits''
Lets take notice of Matthew 10:28 and Luke 12:5 for a clearer understanding

Matthew 10:28
"Don't be afraid of those who want to kill your body; they cannot touch your soul.
Fear only God, who can destroy both soul and body in hell

Luke 12:5
But I will show you whom you should fear:
Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell.
Yes, I tell you, fear him.

The original intent and mission is accomplished
- This whole thing was all about sin, it is all about going through the whole process of ridding the world of sin,
right to the point where it never will rear its ugly head ever again.
Sin has been allowed to wrought out all its worse and worst

If according to Romans 6:23, the wages of sin is death, but down towards the end of the Bible, Revelation 21:4 says: death is no more,
then by deductive reasoning we can be rest reassured that by the strength of Revelation 21:4 there will no more be sin

Romans 6:23
But the product of sin is death and the gift of God is eternal life in our Lord Yeshua The Messiah.

Revelation 21:4
He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or sorrow or crying or pain. All these things are gone forever."

Jeromejnr:
Death does not mean loss of consciousness as you are accustomed to, but falling from grace.

Death is always about separating or separation.
It always is about an end to the existence of someone or something

Jeromejnr:
You talking that way because you are very used to physical death
and all you think of is a loss of consciousness

Loss of consciousness is otherwise known too as, sleep of unconsciousness

There is consciousness in whatever realm one finds oneself, and the consciousness is limited to the boundaries of the resident realm
so in effect, cross-consciousness doesnt exist,
as in those in the land of the dead are not consciousness of the happenings in the land of the living
and vice versa, those in the land of the living are not consciousness of the happenings in the land of the dead

Hence the reasoning behind the phrase, the dead are sleeping, as in they are oblivious to our surroundings in the land of the living
just as like, when we physically sleep, we, until when we wake up, are oblivious of our surrounding and all the going ons therein

Jeromejnr:
When Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus, were they unconscious?

Not unconscious to Jesus
but though Peter, James and John could see Moses and Elijah, they were unconscious to/of Peter, James and John
and except with Jesus, there was no interaction between Moses and Elijah, and Peter, James or John

Jozzy4:
GOD speaks " in the sweat of your face you will eat bread until YOU RETURN TO THE GROUND , for out of it you are taken , for dust you are and TO DUST YOU SHALL RETURN "
Gen 3:19

To where did he say Adam will return when he died?

SMH, dont know what to do about you my dear friend,
as you really want the gloves to come off

OK, here it is, food for thought but be careful and dont choke on it.

Man is made of body, soul and spirit
- the Body returning back to the ground aka earth, is what Genesis 3:19, Ecclesiastes 3:20 and the former part of Ecclesiastes 12:7 is all about
- the Soul sleeping in the grave aka Sheol is what Psalms 89:48 and Daniel 12:2 are all about
- and spirit returning back to God is what the latter part of Ecclesiastes 12:7 is all about