₦airaland Forum

Nowenuse:
Stop telling lies. You never showed me any cheap neighborhood. Prove that you did!

I always showed you modern houses half the price of the ones you showed me here in Nigeria.

Umoja is not clean. So many dirty pictures of it with it's multi-Story style, yet still expensive. What is the average monthly income of a low income Nairobian for them to be able to afford such monthly rents?

You never showed me any cheap neighborhood either - you showed me a shitty middle class neighborhood with annual rent prices higher than classy middle class neighborhoods in Kenya. The rest from Lagos (that I showed you) was a slum with overpriced buildings.

Jay254:
The region is almost half the Size of Kenya.. It's Impossible to have a city of a million plus the place crazyly sparsely populated, They trade alot in Livestock business which contribute about 10% of our GDP.

In the towns I have shared here you will get all most everything you will get in a stardard town in Kenya...Banks, Airpots,Hospitals..Some of them like Isiolo and lake Turkana are booming in tourism

Actually Northern Kenya is over half of Kenya with less than 10 million people because it's arid. You're wasting you time with this boy

Here are counties that constitute Northen Kenya
Turkana - Area - 68, 680 sq. km - Population - 855,399
Samburu - Area - 20182 sq. km - Population - 223987
Marsabit - Area - 66,923 sq. km - Population -291166
Mandera - Area 25,978 sq. km -Population - 1,026,000
Wajir - Area 55,841 sq. km - Population - 661,941
Garissa - Area 45,720 sq. km - Population - 623,060
Isiolo County - Area 25,336 sq. km - Population - 143,294

Total Area - 308,660 sq. km = 53%
Total Population = 3,681,550

That's only 3.6 million people living in over 53% of the area. Northern Kenya is basically empty land. Only a fool will expect us to build a city in such land. Kenya's population is very unevenly distributed (since precolonial days) and the only reason for this is climate. You don't expect people to live in dry unproductive lands. Even the remaining 47%, Kitui, Tana River, Kajiado and Narok counties occupy almost 40% of it with a total population of less than 3 million - this basically means 80% of Kenyans live in 30% of the land.

Nowenuse:
Houses are expensive in Kenya. Ask NairobiWalker who has been with me on this battle journey and ran away.

Yeah, I understand that rent is being paid per month in Kenya which comes with it's advantages, However I think it also comes with more disadvantages. What if a salary earner looses his job and it takes him a long period to get another job? He will automatically be evicted from his house.
In Nigeria, after paying rent for a year, you get at least 3-6 months extra of quit notice before you can be expelled from your apartment. This at least gives you enough time and some form of immunity, don't you think?

Umoja contains the cheapest low income houses in Nairobi and all the houses in Umoja seem to have the same style and pattern and therefore should have the same range of costs.

If you say that there are cheaper houses in Umoja compared to the ones we can see online. Can you pls show us how these cheaper houses look like?

Also, why does the Kenyan govt not give private individuals (not estate developers), the access to lands to build houses? If not within the city, at least on the outskirts of the city. This would have made housing relatively cheaper.

You're the kind of man (or is it girl?) who'll claim he's won even when he's been given a knock out. You can be beaten 100 nill but will still pop up a few days later and boast how you won.

Nowenuse:
How come all of you guys could not give me a response till now on why Kenyan houses are so expensive and unafordable for the majority of Kenyans?

After all the bragging from you guys especially that KiberaWalker aka NairobiWalker? Just see how I disgraced and exposed you here.

We are still waiting till now for an explanation.

I think the Kenyan govt does not cut it's coat according to it's size. Why build cities and houses that are unaffordable to the majority of Kenyan citizens? Are they being built for the rich Indians and Somali business men and their families?
If your govt does not stop this madness in Kenya, your slums will keep on growing larger.

In Nigeria, no matter how low your income is, you can still afford a decent housing in any urban area because there are neighborhoods that suit every pocket size.

As expensive as Abuja main city is because it was built from the scratch, there are still many cheaper suburbs and satelite towns within Abuja metro where one can get a decent house for a very cheap price.

Kenya as a country is a scam if you ask me. A very discriminatory country where many portions of the population have less or no rights.

Things are being done in Kenya to impress the world and to show off, not necessarily for the wellbeing and happiness of the majority of the population.


Just as I read that Garissa and the entire northern Kenya were just connected to the national power grid in 2016.

https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2000201941/northern-kenya-is-finally-connected-to-national-grid

That means that since independence till now, almost the entire northern region of Kenya with it's millions of people never had access to electricity while Nairobians brag of enjoying 24 hours electricity?? Is that fair? Is that not discrimination at it's highest level?

As far back as decades, the entire Nigerian urban areas all over the nook and crannies of the country had access to power. In the state where I live, some rural areas even enjoy more stable power than those in urban areas.

My small hometown of origin with barely 30,000 people in the more vast underdeveloped northern region of
Nigeria has been connected to electricity many years before I was born.

Only mostly interior rural areas of Nigeria have not been connected to electricity till now, but in every state in Nigeria, at least half to 3/4 of the population have been connected to electricity for long.


You can imagine, Since there are millions of Somalis and Oromos in Kenya. I asked for you guys to show me at least one native Somali or Oromo city or urban economic centre in Kenya and I couldn't get any till now.

So, why has a large part of the country been kept so underdeveloped till now? What sort of discrimination is that? So these Somalis and Oromos have to travel hundreds of miles to Nairobi to access major urban amenities or services that can only be available in cities?


Now I see how different Kenya is from Nigeria and how different your development is from ours.

Nigeria as a country has the mentality of 'A father dividing one loaf of bread equally among his 10 children so that everyone has a taste no matter how small it may be'
WHILE

kenya is more like 'A father dividing a loaf of bread among some children, satisfying them well, while leaving the others to starve'.

I showed you pictures of better and cheaper and cleaner neighborhoods than those slums in Lagos that you don't want to call slums. I wonder why you're so hellbent on your notions that Kenyan houses are too expensive for the ordinary citizen. lol

Nowenuse:
Pls this chart is very outdated! What is the source? And what the heck is floating class?

Like I told you before, stick to women's handbags and women's dresses. Economics is not for you if you don't understand what floating class is. The source of this data is Afdb

https://www.afdb.org/fileadmin/uploads/afdb/Documents/Publications/The%20Middle%20of%20the%20Pyramid_The%20Middle%20of%20the%20Pyramid.pdf

TayserMahiri:
Obama's dad's dyck was enough to make a president. Whoever would've raised him wouldn't matter.

They are mad Kenya produced an American president.

Nowenuse:
Stop being stupid and think and analyze before you write.
That picture of open defecation was different from the first one. Look closely!

Also look at this picture below. A flood washed away litters from a dump site into this street. The water will dry up leaving this litters behind. Will that make this street a slum? It will simply leave it an unsanitized street. Get the difference! Don't just rush to make a comment cos you want to make a point!

The photos I posted are definitely not of litter washed by floods. Look son, look.
www.nairaland.com/attachments/3724192_ajegunlelagosslumnigeria_jpege7c935ae2d296c980caf68e5fa8834e9

theenchanter:
but if a Nigerian posted GDP whatever, u guys don't believe it, why?

Well, I still think the $410 billion is pretty overstretched for Nigeria considering the kind of shi.t.ty your country is but I take it just because I got the data from IMF.

Nowenuse:
You of all people should know that middleclass percentage is not a direct function of the GDP nor per capital of a country. It is how well the wealth is evenly spread.
Kenya's GDP might increase by 2 folds, but what difference does it make if the additional fold is limited to the hands of Indians, Somali business men, Kenyatta and their families?

Also, tell us the source of your chart. What is the source? Is that so difficult?

Definitely when an economy is doing well, everything improves. You would be an idiot to think the GDP can more than double while the middle class remains stagnant.

Nowenuse:
Yes they do. Post the full pictures of the houses and let us analyze them, and not just the front side or a part of it.

I don't see how that open defecation picture relates to the subject of houses.

You must not make a fool of yourself all the time.

You're really pathetic. The whole street is a sewage, there are people defeacating openly in the same neighborhood and you're really adamant. lol. So according to you that's not a slum?

TayserMahiri:


But the name you gave him is really and I mean really mean! And im not saying no-ones-, I mean Obab

They reason like those respective names so I don't think I am that bad a guy.

Nowenuse:
Pls this chart is very outdated! What is the source? And what the heck is floating class?

The current one is even more embarassing to you. See.

Kenya's GDP 2010 = $40 billion
Kenya's GDP 2018 = $88 billion
% Increase = 120%

Nigeria's GDP 2010 = $369 billion
Nigeria's GDP 2018 = $410 billion
% increase = 11%

It's clear Kenya's mid class has increase way more than Nigeria's.

TayserMahiri:
Obama's dad's dyck was enough to make a president. Whoever would've raised him wouldn't matter.

Nowenuse:
I understand you, but why should you be comparing old towns built by coastal arabs of east africa to that of black africans.

We all knew that arabs had more exposure and sophistication in architecture than us. No matter how well our old towns are maintained, they still cannot measure up, cos lots of them were built in primitive fashions back then.

Also, some of these our old houses were built during the colonial era and not necessarily pre-colonial. They are regarded as family houses as it was built by great-grand parents and grandparents.
In some of our cultures in Nigeria, it is forbidden to demolish your fathers house, no matter how old it may be.
There are cases where young people will want to demolish these old houses and build newer ones and their parents will rebuke them, claiming that the old house was a symbol of their achievement and pride back in the day. So, they go to the modern parts of the city to build and buy their own modern houses.

There is a very strong cultural aspect to this thing.


So, I want to ask, couldn't the Sudanese immigrants in Kenya at least build houses with some form of modernity or permanent structure? Cos all over Kenyan slums you see no elements of modernity or a permanent structure.

Dude, it's simple................when you have ancient houses in your country, you either choose to demolish them or keep them and maintain them. That's what happens worldwide and that's why those European cities have very old buildings yet they are very clean and beautiful. It's absurd to keep cities this dirty and this ugly in the name of conserving culture - nobody would respect you for having cities that look like this.
www.nairaland.com/attachments/3724294_20130703110715_full_jpeg7ccfede4411bf462e73178e0406d50cc

TayserMahiri:
The only person who gets kicked is you and your boyfriend Nowe. Both from the Kenyan side and the Nigerian side

That one adds no value to this thread other than spectating clueless No-ones-anus

Nowenuse:
Hmm, the last time I checked Ethiopia was still ahead of Kenya. Can you guys show some sources? According to some sources, they are still ahead of you guys.

Besides, that still doesn't make a difference cos Ethiopia was ahead of Kenya. What differences were observed in ET? Since a foolish person asked 'what differences are observed in Nigeria' since we overtook SA as the largest economy in Africa.

Jay254, if you like agree with my points, if you like, do not agree, that is your headache. Your deluded mind still does not change the point that Nigeria has the largest middleclass in africa, largest ongoing projects, largest african start-ups in the last 1-2 decades and largest entertainment industry.

Prove us wrong if you can!

Middle Class is measured by percentages
www.nairaland.com/attachments/5302697_laclassemoyenneenafriqueen2010_jpeg6e185b2b22775f435ba1060118511d36

Nowenuse:
Can you prove that they are slums like Kibera?

Most of those houses you call slums have modern toilet and kitchen pipe facilities.
They are built with concrete blocks and are appartment styled. They have ceilings, cemented floors, a solid foundation.

They cannot be classified as slums in like fashion with Kibera or Mathare where most structures are built with temporary materials.

These houses have toilet facilities and ceilings?
www.nairaland.com/attachments/3724192_ajegunlelagosslumnigeria_jpege7c935ae2d296c980caf68e5fa8834e9
https://i2.wp.com/media.premiumtimesng.com/wp-content/files/2016/02/Area-boys-defecating.jpg?fit=495%2C330&ssl=1

TayserMahiri:
So they did?

Yeah, they did

naijalander:
Here we go again with the Obamaness, we will never have enough of the fact that a man of Luo descent was US president.

Find a better argument.

Remember Nigeria had a national holiday when Obama became president.

naijalander:
You are missing the point.

In the end Nigeria is still better than Kenya.

1800 pages doesn't change the fact that Nigeria is better than Kenya.

Yes, Nigeria is better than Kenya for no reason.

TayserMahiri:
Each time I see Naija pics my brain goes 10th century

Nigerian cities, 90% is dump.

nwoke37:
Eko Atlantic and Centenary City will by far beat any South African City, but it will take some time before these cities become fully operational. I'm also looking a Konza city also posing competition to South African cities.

You guys realize though the whites have a part to play in why South Africa is that advanced.. Now we're seeing blacks taking over the country and suddenly everyone is predicting South Africa might be another Zimbabwe.

No worries though, I have a feeling that African countries will evolve with better managers of their respective countries. Countries such as America and European countries have all passed through our current phase to become what they are today

Nigerians and their low opinion of black people.

TayserMahiri:
But these guys with the ugly yellow

Nigeria should be painted yellow on the map

Everything is yellow and brown over there.

rvp20182:
Old towns - except in Nigeria - is not dirt - it's more narrow streets and really old (centuries building)
Mombasa Old Town - dating many centuries
[img]http://2.bp..com/-mmAOoUokUfw/VVI-LiycVCI/AAAAAAAADZ8/IzDBRk6IA0k/s1600/MB4.jpg[/img]

Mombasa Old Town resembles spanish and Portuguess cities. Always clean with narrow streets.

nwoke37:
That's how you know these Kenyans are jokes,
They called Enyimba a city

It's a football team

The City is Aba, my bad

Jay254:
This guys make me feel like Kibera ain't aslum by what they say...

When rich Asians In Kenya are part of the super Rich they are not Kenyans but Indians despite being born and bread here.

When Arich Lebanese is in charge of Eko Atlantic, He is a Nigerian.

When a Kenyan Town is well organised and beautiful, its a City for the Rich.

This guys are just bitter.

They are funny dudes. They come here and swear there are no slums in Nigeria whilst they keep regurgitating the same photos of Kibera and Mathare yet almost all their cities are slums.
Onitsha
www.nairaland.com/attachments/3724671_oni1_jpegb5851e96fac17733f187ee8805af6752
Enugu
www.nairaland.com/attachments/3724655_enuguslum1_jpeg44135297e945c466606d6caef1eae590
Aba
www.nairaland.com/attachments/3724656_ariaria_jpegaa3ee344d82a1c2287215aab1a2fd217
www.nairaland.com/attachments/3724664_aba4_jpeg068f3df5da76a49ba730edfc4e12d878


www.nairaland.com/attachments/3724657_aba3_jpeg8729fb00f4dbf22072d4806eb61d053b

nwoke37:
And those numbers are mostly in rural areas...

Does it really matter?

theenchanter:
that's agbogbloshie in Ghana, it's not Onitsha.

Onitsha is the most polluted city in the world - that's funny for a city with almost no heavy industries.
http://spectascope.com/post/1867/WHO-records-Onitsha-as-worlds-most-polluted-city-Aba-Kaduna-and-Umuahia-also-mentioned-in-statistics-below

Here are more photos of Nigerian Cities - See how slummish they look.
Enugu
[img]https://www.nairaland.com/attachments/3724495_mn_jpeg1993648204cff54bc4f67f309527b77e
[/img]
www.nairaland.com/attachments/3724494_20140707100446_jpeg172c698491ba9be941a22558b6541862
Jos
www.nairaland.com/attachments/3724467_tinroofsjosnigeriaa24fpr_jpeg6b672334c9c900661960cc48ed6711bf

Akure
www.nairaland.com/attachments/3724378_sam2350_jpegac47447fcfd2822599e1c38a8dc92ad0

Ibadan
www.nairaland.com/attachments/3724297_dsc00362_jpeg2ebfd22a0744a7222672879fed0d7569
www.nairaland.com/attachments/3724296_mathareslum_jpeg64e51504d0eb6c4bd7b4e4bb8deb3e81

Jay254:
Nigerians don't visit our forums they come to our country..

Nowenuse:
Okay. Let us get the differences here. Cos I see that Kenyans have been echoing a misconception about Nigerian cities for a long time now.


In Nigeria, there is a very very strong indigeneship context. Every city or urban area has natives.
The natives of a city are not usually relocated in the expansion of a city. And this is what usually give rise to the poor areas and older sections of Nigerian cities which you guys think is the major definition of the city.

In Warri city where I live for instance, the modern parts of the city mostly dominated by non natives are very different from the slumish like houses in which most of the poorer natives live.

Look at this first picture below. It is from the city I live.

Can you see the B part of the picture? See how crowded and rusty the houses look? It is dominated by the natives. Look at the A part, can you see the difference?

NairobiWalker, Jay254, mtis, TayserMahiri, kikuyu1 et al

It doesn't matter how a slum is formed. We don't care if the devil came with it from hell in the middle of the night and dropped it in your city. What matters is it is a slum.

theenchanter:
oga, this is not Nigeria..

Onitsha to be specific. 90% of Onitsha is a huge slum.

Daejoyoung:
But so many dispute this 88 Billion dollars and call it fake, even Kenyans themselves, and according to rvp2018, the IMF is not reliable source for GDP. So what do we believe now?

Can you bring us any source disputing it?