₦airaland Forum

Nihilist:
Low Key im not surprised Conte is going for a target man striker of the Carrol's physique.

I think hes trying to replicate the Llorente - Tevez, big man-little man combo that worked well for him at Juve.

Thats probably why he went back in for Llorente sef and why he is said to have preferred Lukaku

Morata is supposed to be that target man to hold up the ball for Hazard and othera, but the Spaniard keeps falling down into the sunken place - Lord lift him up.

Spot on! Which is why I sugggested a few posts ago (before the Andy Carroll link) that Conte should try Batman and Morata in the 3-5-2 and Hazard in a free role behind them. I do believe the system could work. However, it will not work in isolation. The WBs need to be top draw.

All that said, I find it difficult to think that Conte asked for Andy Carroll personally. I am shocked Conte even knows Andy Carroll. I see the discussion going more like "I need a big man up front for my 3-5-2 to work...........Aubameyang?" and some oga at the top replies saying "Well... Nice try....... We only have a £30m budget. How about Andy Carroll?" .....

Greatihex:
BREAKING: Chelsea manager Antonio Conte is having a medical at Stamford Bridge after being linked with a £30m bid for West Ham striker Andy Carroll...�

Nihilist:
Normally the name Emenalo would have been attracting many curses by now....

My nigga Griffon would have been posting articles from acclaimed Chelsea writers blaming the man...

Diggz for don dey shout fvck Emenalo

Conte say he no dey sign players.


Emenalo no dey around


We no get TD sef.

Brotha diggz, who we gon swear for today bruh?

Hehehe.

Nihilist:
One fool on twitter said Mane + Salah is the best Muslim attack since 9/11

My God

raumdeuter:
I am very anti-Hazard so when I ask this same questions people think I am scapegoating him

This is mid January your main striker has 10 goals, the other attacker has 6 goals (2 from penalties). See those chances Liverpool scored, Morata would have fallen, Hazard that wont fall will be turning like a wall clock while the Pedro and Willian that can at least try are on the bench

Then what is the purpose of playing Bakayoko and Fabregas at the detriment of the attack

Bench Bakayoko and Hazard play Pedro and Willian

Your last statement is the premise of this debate.

Conte plays Hazard because most Managers will do the same - hope that their star man can play themselves out of bad form. However, for Bakayoko, Conte intends this to shore up the midfield. To not do so is to expose our feeble midfield of Kante-Fabregas to the fire power of big teams. And we have seen repeadly that this is easily overrun.

Unfortunately, last season, Conte didn't have this problem because he had Matic. So it worked. This season, there is no single player who is a Matic - one that can sit and allow Kante surge forward and one that can join attack himself and retain possession effectively, thereby contributing to offensive play.

It was a no brainer. Fab had to be dropped. Even though this was at the expense of some creativity. This season, not one of Bakayoko, Drinkwater or Fab, as it seems can replace Matic and as such, an extra player is required, which means one forward player dropped.

I for one think Conte should try Hazard in a withdrawn position, at the top of the midfield in the 3-5-2, if he continues to be shy on goal and pair Batshuayi and Morata in a flat two at the top. I really believe this can work. But Conte doesn't fancy Batman, so here we are.

airmark:
I remember when i was telling nateevs here, last august, that morata's misses would be unpalatable for chelsea, he said hating had consumed me. He kept on defending him, in the face of many gifs exposing why zidane preferred benzema to him.

Blast from the past.
Now who will rescue chelsea upfront converting most of the chances? Nobody yet.

Well at least your post passively implies that even if we had bought Bellotti, we still will be battling this same problem at this moment in time.

Nihilist:
I'm not being facetious here, even though I do tend to take the mick from time to time. I'm only trying to point out how yours is an argument of convenience. One good performance and suddenly much disparaged liverpool players are instant upgrades on the midfielders you once lauded this season. This is not to say you don't have a point, but I suspect that your point is more derived from a desire to 'protect' Morate from perceived scapegoating, rather than a genuine intent to make a factual submission about the current Chelsea team's capabilities.

I'm just trying to debunk your claims in the only style I ever use - through humour and a dose of post digging.

Your digging is great work and funny many times. But it needs to be kept in context of the prevailing debate and must consider everything in between. There is no plane of existience where people are not allowed to change their minds. There is a massive dfference between flip flopping and admitting wrong or seeing a different point of view. As long as it can be explained, then it's game. What matters is consistency in philosophy.

You should go find the views of people on here when Salah was at Chelsea. Mine inclusive. You will be shocked. Now people are cursing JM for selling him off. I am not a big fan of JM (sure everyone knows this) but to be fair to him, Salah was not very good while he was here. That's just the truth and he had many chances to prove it. Now going back to dig people's comments on Salah will just be a futile exercise without considering everyting in between. It's just for humour.

On Morata: You have missed a post (after the Arsenal game) where I did openly admit that Morata could have done well with the chances he got. I stated categorically that the narrative must be put on hold. So I am confused why you think I am protecting Morata. I am not. I am only elucidating the point the likes of LordFalcao are making - why can't others score ?

On the post on Drinkwater and Yoko: Not checked but I think I do remember this post was right after the Aletico game. It looked good and everyone admitted it did. Even the much now scolded Hazard was unbelievable. Hence my assertion, "we COULD be goood this year. This is not to say I wasn't dissapointed in the summer and this is not to say that after the Atletico game, it's not all gone to pieces and we all have not seen where the issues are. We all registered our displeasure at the sigings, so I am not sure what this is about.


On this:

We've faced City 3 times in the league in the last two years. On two of those occasions, we managed to put at least 2 goals past them - Eden Hazard and Willian scored against City last year. They are still at the club today.

But why can't I expect Morata to score 2 of the 4 goals against City sef? Firmino and Salah could have easil had a brace or even hattrick yesterday. Do they have two heads?

The idea is to do so without the inclusionof Morata. What will be our options, since you feel that Morata is the problem. And we are not talking about the City over the last two years, we are talking about City of yesterday and Chelsea of two days ago. Who are the Chelsea players on current form that will score 4 goals if Morata did not feature at all?

This is not an argument of convenience, this is the problem.

Nihilist:
This is you on Emre Can, putting him in exactly the same category as Drinkwater who he will 'Upgrade in an instant'


This Ibime on Ox. There was even one post where he said Ox runs to much to play in midfield. I just can't find it.





Now all of a sudden, Oxlade and Can are the players Wise Heads like yourself and Ibime have been calling for, for a long time.

My stance on Bakayoko is linked to a bet. I expect to win a pair of trainers based on his exploits on the pitch. You don't expect me to badmouth someone I am emotionally and financially invested in, do you?






Wow...a month truly is a long time in Football.

I am not sure what the point you are making is. I can see fan boys already cheering you without checking.
So what if some people made statements about what they saw at the time? What they saw at the time was exactly what it was - what they saw at the time.

Jeez, go and check what people were saying about Sterling and Lingard this time last year. Do you mind helping us with digging?
This month, people are saying Sterling and Lingard are light years above Hazard. Why? Because of what they see now.
So yes mate, one month is a phucking long time in football.


I am not sure what the exercise proves. It's just one of those things that people do in a futile atempt to score one on others. It doesn't make a difference because you are evading the crucial question and clutching at straws.

Do I want Can and Wijaldum in my team? Are you phucking kidding me? You know I campaigned for two seasons straight for Koke and Verratti. So imagine my shock when we ended up with Yoko and Drinkwater.

Are Can and Wijaldum elite level? Hell No? Do I want them ? Hell No! Despite this, will they upgrade Yoko and Drinkwater? Absolutely!

So what's the point you proved?



Answer the question Nihilist and stop dodging.
If we don't have Morata playing against City; and as such, no one to "scape-goat", who is/are going to score 4 goals against City? I need you to answer this question.

Dongorgon5:
You've raised good points sir....I'm not a big fan of Morata,but I feel Egbon nihilist is looking for a scape goat,We have bigger problem with the likes of bakayoko Alonso moses and co who are average at best

Alonso has been top draw. That is one fine footballer. He may not have pace like Pedro and Willian but his football brain is top level.

Nihilist:
The liverpool midfield that would 'walk into our team' include Oxlade, Wijnaldum and Can

If i bring out comments from this thread about each of those players, you go fear fear. Oxlade in particular was being priced by Conte as a reserve fullback.

All of a sudden, he would stroll into our midfield.

Also im not scapegoating Morata, i was making a point about the argument with lordfalcao where he said Morata did not get any clear cut chance against Leicester.

I could be really petty and remind you about how Morata is supposed to be enabling his team mates score more goals.

The only point im making is the same one ive been making since the start of the season - Morata needs to fall less, and score more. He needs to escape the sunken place.

And im sure you know I've been shouting for Hazard to improve his mentality in the box for the last two years, so it's not like there's a bias ting.

Can, Wijnaldum and Oxlade will upgrade Drinkwater, Bakayoko and Moses in an instant. If anyone is stil in doubt about this, then they have not been paying attention. It matters less what has been said on this forum. Wise heads like Ibime, Griffon et al have been talking about midfield strength for eons. I joined in late on the topic but I came to terms when I saw the srength in their arguments. So this will not happen "all of a sudden". It has been brewing for ages. Then we made it worse by spending £75m on average midfielders.


The scape-goating continues I see. I never see you criticise Bakayoko for a single second. And you say there's no bias? Even you know this Nihilist.

Does Morata need to stay on his feet more? Yes! Could he have converted some of his chances? Yes! But the main question is still being evaded. If we don't have Morata playing against City; and as such, no one to "scape-goat", who is/are going to score 4 goals against City? I need you to answer this question.

Nihilist:
Btw see the kind of goals that liverpool scored today...i dont think any were from a clear cut chance sef.

Oxlade drimbled a player and scorec from outside box.

Firmino their number 9 bullied John stones to chip the keeper

Mane fired one hot shot from one corner

And Salah chipped a rebound over the keeper from 30 yards

You can tell none of these guys are in the sunken place.

No one corner dribbling or falling down when a defender just breathes on them.

Just making magic out of nothing.

Make i bend like crayfish if Morata score that kain Firmino goal.

He for don fall down like dice on a ludo board as usual, looking for yellow card and whining when the ref says play on.

Quick stat: Morata has received 5 yellow cards this season....ALL have been for dissent.


I have absolutely zero interest in responding to any triggered dusty comments.

Goodnight.

In summary, four different players from the same Liverpool team created chances for themselves and scored.
Who are the four different players in Chelsea capable of scoring against against City.

Morata doesn't score and the team whole goes to s.hit! THis is what you should be concerned about.
This effectively means that if Morata does not play, then we have less chances of scoring.

I understand you may not like Morata and even as a big fan of his, I can see why you may not. That's understandable.
Morata has not helped himself over some games. I get it. So banter must follow - from opposition fans and fans opposed to Morata. The posts must be funny, so everyone can cheer. Very understable.

This does not take away the fact that what you are doing is scape-goating. Because when all the cheering is said and done, the crucial question beckons. What happens when Morata cannot/does not play? This is the crucial question.

Can we beat City without Morata? Can we have four different players scoring? Can you confidently say that without Morata on the picth "falling like dice on ludo board", we can score 4 goals against City? I'd like any Chelsea fan to take me on on this, with sincereity.

Anyone of us who is prepared to put sentiment aside will quickly find out the answers to this question. We have a serious problem. I am a big Hazard fan but I say dude has to step up. Then we have the average players littered all over the place.

Sit Kante, Hazard and Morata away from the team and Mane, Firminio, Salah and the whole of Pool's midfield will walk into our team right now.

That's the problem.

Nihilist:
Nateevs, Conte making almost exactly the same argument here, even though he's obviously making his statement in a way to protect Morata.

Defence is not a problem.
Chance creation is not a problem.
Formation is not a problem


FINISHING is our problem.

How can we play three 0-0 games in a row and be looking at the defensive midfielder instead of the striker?

Did you watch the game today? Probably not.
I need you to show us a clear cut chance that should have been scored but wasn't. I am struggling to see the finishing that was the problem today.

Conte has a duty to balance press responses and hide the true nature of things sometimes. You cannot always take every he said as the real reason.

Nihilist:
We've not been forced into any formation. That's a fallacy and automatically renders the rest of your post invalid

Playing 3 at the back is not a must.

Another thing, we've started 343 in 13 games this season, won 9 and only lost 2 of those games, so that's another nail in the coffin we'll use to bury this argument.

2nd to 3rd is the beginning of a moonwalk out of the top 4 if care is not taken. Defensively we've been solid. Only Man City in the league has conceded less goals than us.

Offensively however, we now officaially have the most wasteful striker in the league. You know how you said Morata was keeping pace with Aguero in big misses? Morata has gone from keeping pace to surpassing the Argentine forward.

Here's another stat for you, as at this afternoon, Morata as a striker had received more Big Chances than any other striker in the league. He gets the most,he wastes the most.

You'd better start thinking about how to rescue Morata from the sunken place

Too many things to reply to.

Every time I see you type 3 at the back is not a must. What exactly should we play and how tactically, doe sit provide an advantage over a 3-4-3? I will like to know. Let's start from here.

raumdeuter:
But you didnt, you played 3-5-2 with Morata and Hazard upfront and Fabregas- Bakayoko in support plus Moses and Alonso

Many teams play 4-4-2, 4-2-3-1, 4-5-1 and still create chances if plyers like Hazard play up to their wages

Let's rewind. THis is what you said.

No formation prohibits chance creation and shot taking

How are you able to say this and continue to defend it? Forget what Hazard did or did not do.

Nihilist:
We havent had to play 352. We started the season with 343 and were winning. So the idea that we've been forced into 352 seems strange to me.

Morata is almost directly responsible for 4 dropped points in our last 3 games. If our striker cannoot bury simple chances that are coming his way, i have absolutely no idea what Bakayoko has to do with our lack of goals.

We have been forced into the 3-5-2 as soon as it was clear that Bakayoko is a poor midfielder. We always knew Fabregas was not a two-man midfield guy. Conte proved this last season with Matic's inclusion and winning the league. Then we have Drinkwater.

If we play with an escort in midfield, we create no chances and defend against no attacks. There's no disputing this. So to create chances from midfield, Fabregas needs to be drafted in. To play Fabfregas, one forward player needs to be sacrificed; hence the 3-5-2. How is this not straight forward?


Meanwhile, if our striker had picked up 4 points for us, we will be second. Now we are 3rd. It changes nothing about the way we play and the chances we create.

You posted the stats yourself. We create far less chances than the bigger teams. How is Morata's lost 4 pts going to change that?

raumdeuter:
No formation prohibits chance creation and shot taking, the number of Hazards ball sent directly to the opponent in the first half alone was more than 6

Really? So if we played with a 3-6-1, you will not be amazed if we didn't create a single chance?

atheist5:
stop being rigid,defensive and outsmarted and it for in case you didn't notice we were severely outplayed by Leicester today

Christ. This is no suggestion. Tell us in concrete terms, using real-life examples of "less/reduced rigidity".

So once more. What exactly should Conte do that he is not doing?

raumdeuter:
Chelsea had more shots after Hidden Hazard left, abi what creativity was Hazzard providing

Chelsea were playing with a 3-4-3 after Hazard left. Chelsea were playing with a 3-5-2 with hazard on.

atheist5:
conte is the biggest fraud in.Chelsea

Mate. It's enough. We have heard. You like to repeat this without any back up.
Your point falls on its head when exposed to little srcutiny.

What should Conte do now that he as not done? Tell me.

Nihilist:
I admit I'm reaching a bit with the Gabby Jesus drop.

However Crouch has 3 goals and 2 assists in the league this season

Bats has 2goals 0 assists

Crouch is almost 100 years old and plays backup for Stoke who just sacked their manager.

Batman has to at least outdo Peter Crouch in the race for best backup striker.

It will be interesting to compare minutes and goals in all competitions between both players.

Nihilist:
What will you now call the likes of Gabriel Jesus, Giroud, or even Peter Crouch

I want to see Batman have a regular run of games out on loan, but I'm not optimistic considering that he has only ever had 1 decent goalscoring season under his belt.

2 if you count his exploits in Belgium.

I don't believe Gabriel Jesus is a back-up striker. Gabriel seems to me to be on the bench because of a change in system. He was City's main striker last season for an extended period up until his injury. Just the way you wouldn't have called Aguero the back up striker last season.

Batman was bought for this reason. Back up.

I should also clarify that the word "best" refers to ability and willingness to perform the role.

Please don't say Peter Crouch. Will you actually choose Peter Crouch over Batman?

I stand to be corrected but Batman is best back-up striker in Europe. Not even Tammy Abraham will play the role that Batman has played. Solanke has already pissed off to Liverpool. Batman should be embraced and shown that he belongs.


Meanwhile, these Conte out rumours should cease. We should be careful what we wish for. The Chelsea job is no longer attractive. Decent players, the level of Dembele and Coutinho now cost upwards of £100m. Such money is just not available.

atheist5:
whaaaat,change wentin,na was for you oh,we play 3atb all the time a smart coach won't do that especially when it has been figured out,like I said go to reddit or any forum ask any juventus fans about conte and come back to me

You keep harping on about 3 at back. I am not sure what you mean. Conte arrived at Chelsea trialling 4-2-4 and then 4-4-2. It was quickly changed to 3 at the back when nothing was working.

3 at the back is not shipping goals. So I don't know why you have a problem with 3 at the back. You are just looking for change where there shouldn't be one. What tactical advantage in terms of forward play, does 4 at the back have over 3 at the back? I am not sure you can come up with any.


I don't care what Juve fans think on their forum. All I know is Conte won the PL. End of!

What you need to be worry about is what Conte does not have. What Conte does not have is players who are not Willian, Pedro, Moses, Alonso, Bakayoko, Drinkwater. These players are okay but no one of them is guaranteed to give you more than 12 goals and/or 12 asists a season when Hazard, Morata and Fabregas are not scoring. And these playrs are 80% to 90% likely feature in every single game. So I am not sure what playing 4 at the back will do about that.


The truth is that transfer-wise, we have done poorly over the last 3 seasons. We have failed to improve.

atheist5:
dude,this was a boring game,forget these tiny chances,the guy is too stocked ,just one formation/style tell me how you will succeed when everyone and their mom knows the formation you intend to play?,watch the game again,against that pathetic arsenal defence na,na those chances will fit create throughout the game?, the issue of rigidity was what juvetus fans complain of,they have been to two champions league final in 3 years since he Left,yes Chelsea should buy players but that doesn't cover the fact that conte is lacking big time,so open your eye make you go they find us coach

I think you just have something against Conte. Tell me on Manager you know in the PL that has changed playing style/system/formations more than Conte. Mention just one.

Finance

Ibime:
This is false. Chelsea will never sign 3 year contract only on a player that cost so much. It will be 5 year contract.

Good pick. I missed the 3 years. It will definitely be 5 years.

Tval:
Photoshop.

You are saying it cannot be true?
We once did this for Robinho before the deal was agreed, leading to Real pulling the plug on the deal.

Someone's saying they saw this on TOCWS before it was quickly taken down. Although, this happened in December.

Not sure what to make of it.

Ibime:
True, but there are always ways round FFP like PSG getting their state owned company to pay £400m for sponsorship. City did something similar. Roman can easily do a similar wuruwuru through one of his associates to get cash for transfers.

Indeed.

Ibime:
Can you produce 1/10th of what you are worth in cash to pursue a hobby overnight?

Roman is worth $10bln, most of which is tied up in companies as assets/shares, not cash.

He's got a £1bln commitment for new stadium plus a pending divorce that could hit him for a couple billion.

In order to start competing on this level, Roman will have to start producing £200m in cash from his pocket every season which is nigh on impossible.

Is the Chelsea hobby worth 1/10th of Romans life? He has already produced £1bln for Chelsea over the years.

In addition, you have to remember that Roman sold his oil assets before the oil boom and bought steel assets just before steel crashed. His net worth has dropped $8bln from these poor business decisions in the intervening years. He was once worth $18bln, now just $10bln.

I am not sure this situation is relevant anyway. Even if he had the cash to compete, he just couldn't. FFP will not allow it.
And I believe it is more about FFP and Chelsea's affordability to buy as a business than Roman's cash flow or lack thereof.
Roman is not even allowed to pump the cash directly into the club by way of player transfer.

This is why stadium talks, increased capacity and youth academy improvements have been receiving attention lately, as these are the only channels where he can infuse direct cash without Chelsea being in trouble.

Unbelievable. Very painful to watch.

Officially no shot on goal throughout the first half. In fact, no attempt on goal.