₦airaland Forum

If you didn't deem it a germane reason then I'm wondering why you brought it up to begin with. These were utility players for the most part brought in to do a job. Ramires and Mikel made key contributions where necessary but they never formed a core of the team in Hazard's time. I jumped on it because it was the most frivolous reason of all.

It's your understanding of the whole point that was faulty not my intention to show valid reasons supporting my point of view. I also raised a left back issue amongst many others. You don't seem keen on discussing that. You have attacked the outlet that gives your whole point false credence.

Good players or should I say star players don't guarantee anything. History is rife with good players that didn't win sh!t collectively so the rubbish is from you tbh

You allowed to change that point pf view to anything. Good players, Star players. However, given that the premise of the debate was that the inclusion of Toni Kroos, Modric, Benzema, Ronaldo, Isco, helps bring out the best in Bale, you are the one saying the rubbish. If you think that this is not the case, ask them to sell Ronaldo, Modric and Kroos and replace them Drinkwater, Emre Can and Slimani; then we see if Bale's productivity will not decline.

Its hardly my fault that you fail to appreciate a player who always gave his best when playing for your team. With his limited abilities he contributed to some of your greatest triumphs in history, a feat Hazard is yet to achieve for all the noise

Abeg. I don't belong to this school of thought. My school of thought is that rubbish players do more harm than good. In actual fact, statistically, the utilization of the likes Ramires has contributed in total, to more failure than success and such, I don't appreciate these things you try to point in my face.

Whether you like it or not it is impractical for a team to field 10
attacking players, certain players need to do the grunt work and you find out that the truly elite teams I assume you are trying to emulate all defend from the front

Again, faulty understanding of the wholesome point, which cannot be attributed to me. There is a difference between asking for Alaba (instead of Azpilicueta) at left back, to assist Hazard in attack (drawing away the constant 3 against 1 marking we constantly see) and asking for 11 attacking players.

No matter how much desire and enerygy Ramires puts into games, he can never match (let alone surpass) the output of Kante - offensively and defensively. I repeat, good players. Right players. Technical players. Offensively and defensively. Not 11 attacking.

That's your faulty understanding at work. Not my own point.

raumdeuter:
Hazard roams around as much as he want for Belgium only that he is very ineffective, A lot of his NT goals are Penalties

How was the Brazlian confed team mobile ? The same Oscar that Hazard fans claim is poor and dulling Hazard, is what Neymar is putting up with in Brazil for the Cinfed and world cup add a Fred and Hulk to it

So out of 4 attacking players i Brazil 3 are useless (Oscar Fred Hulk) yet Neymar didnt fail to deliver. The man at his age is on the way to becoming Brazil highest goal scorer ever Is that the same man you are comparing to a local champion like Hidden Hazard?

You are saying Matic and Fabregas are useless, will you take Gustavo + Paulinho over them? or is it Renato Agusto you would take over them?

Those are the dross Neymar has to deal with in Brazil yet has won a Confed, Olympics and took them to the world cup semi until injury struck

You all keep saying Barca helped Neymar, Before he got to Barca he was already a great player in South America winning Santos copa libetadores or was it Messi and Suarez that made him win for Santos too?

Neymar CL quarter semi and final scored to help his team to the treble and this is the man you dare compare to Hidden hazard who has 2 goals all his career from CL open play

This is not how it works. Players don't switch on and off their form at will. There's never been a time in history where a player suffers from a decline in form for club; then goes back to Country to turn it on.

You guys will bring on the Belgium thing over and over again. Hazard is not a robot. Hazard will not feel deflated at club, showing lack of form from instability and unfavourable tactics to abilities, then go back to Country and turn it on.

This is not the case for the likes of Neymar, Bale etc. Neymar plays in a system all year round. The system is designed to get the best out of him. And the best of him the club gets. Psychologically, it is then easier to return to Country and replicate that form; leading Country to glory when expected.

The same cannot be said of someone who's suffered from a lack of form. You cannot expect a player who feels psychological depressed at club to turn up and feel upbeat for Country. Tell me I am wrong on this.

If this point gets lost on you fellas, then it's a shame. I just watch you guys every week debate this topic, concluding on utter rubbish without in-depth analysis. You and A40 are very intelligent guys. You can see this from a mile away. How you are not reaching this conclusion defies belief.

A40:
Ramires had his strengths, Mikel was at best a squad player. The idea that Hazard was held back by these guys is total baloney and I'm wondering why you are bringing them up at this juncture. They weren't the key players behind Hazard in his magnum opus season so it is rather dubious of you to mention them. Hazard's inability to shine is not a construct of Mikel and Ramires. Find another excuse

No one has claimed Özil or Sanchez were duds but the stats you uploaded further buttress my point. They produced but their production was deemed insufficient and they were subsequently shipped out! Their replacements have since gone on to do better. Facts

Now if the unproductive Willian can outshine Hazard tell me what would be his fate at Madrid or Barca? Its not bad enough that he was outshined, its how little Willian needed to do to achieve this. You should be very ashamed for even trying to defend that. What does a player that can get outplayed by goddamn Willian want to go and do at Barca or Madrid?

You ninjas are just full of excuses. Its not today sha. When I and others told you Torres was past it you people conjured all kinds of excuses shekpe keeping, lack of MAZACAR and chose to blame everybody but the player involved

You played negative vs Atleti? Whose fault? Look at their squad and look at yours? If a team perceived to be better than the Champions of Europe are playing negative vs Gabi, Juan Fran and co then C'est dommage

Let me add that I am merely stating the prevalent opinion that has been held in the past and what I am seeing right now. What I attribute to you I state explicitly so I don't quite get the rationale of your last sentence

You only see what you want to see. I have maintained in my last three posts, a combination of several factors. Then you take just the Mikel and Ramires factor, and decided to concentrate on that. Never mind other points.


I see you have (and rightfully so) distanced yourself from that last statement. Good players don't guarantee anything. That's just complete rubbish!

Now we are talking about Ramires' strengths. The opinion we normally fall back to when we are talking about a complete dud. Why don't you ask Bayern to go after those strengths?

If you think the difference between the combination of Mikel, Ramires, defensive football, negative tctics, attacking outlet relying solely on Hazard, Azipili at left back, Mr Mourinho and now Alonso, Kante, Matic, positive football, method of attack, Hazard not having to defend and Mr Conte is not crucial to Hazard's performance this season so far, then you and I have nothing to discuss and we better end it now.

I mean you are emotionally invested in the anti-Hazard brigade, you cannot see that Chelsea, as a whole, had an off season because of some single dude, and not necessarily that Hazard failed to produce. Some much, you claim Willian only had to do little to be better than him?

But where's the little Willian is doing now, in a team and system that seems perfectly made for Hazard to shine? In fact, Hazard has already doubled Willian's tally for the whole of last season in only a third of the season.

But let's leave facts alone. Common sense must not be allowed to get in the way of obscene declarations. Chelsea did not have a bad season with all players under-performing because of a toxic manager, it was all Hazard's inability to perform. Let's drive the anti-brigade train to an easy conclusion.

Complete confusion. So much, that you are making an argument and somehow completely oblivious to the fact that the present Hazard is already proving everything you are saying wrong.

You think the introduction of Kante has not allowed Hazard to go out in front and be superb? Play one-twos with Costa and blow away weak teams?

Heck even Pedro and Costa are looking like new beasts on the back of a new system. Playing out of their skins, passing with their eyes closed and remaining a constant threat at goal. But somehow, Hazard is excluded from the benefits of introducing a complete midfielder in Kante. We are not allowed to make this case for Hazard. Even though we can see with our eyes how transformed he had been in a short while.

Instead, WE, are making excuses and Hazard must be judged by a different sets of rules.

In fact, according to you, it doesn't matter that Kante is there. Let's just stick Winston Borgarde there. Good players don't guarantee jack. Complete midfielders don't help.

Confusion specialists! It's 2016 abeg. I am not doing this yeye arguments.

The football this Liverpool are playing ehn, no be from this world.

A40:
I like this. Give Hazard the credit when the going is good, blame the mediocre teammates when sh!t hits the fan. When we were pointing out the contributions of Diego Costa (top scorer) and Fabregas (assists leader) everybody was shouting Hazard as if he was the only one on the pitch.

The idea that playing with Kroos, Benzema, Neymar, Modric, Iniesta, Rakitic guarantees anything is a lazy argument to make. The likes of Sanchez, Özil, Fabregas are proof that playing at Barca or Madrid guarantees zilch. Infact you are under mind numbing pressure to produce and standards are higher

It was on this same thread that Chelsea fans gleefully proclaimed 8 players from their team would get into Bayern treble winning XI, The days of MAZACAR et al.

Shey una play negative football reach Atleti? Is their squad better than yours. Did Willian ever get put amongst the elite? The same Willian you are deriding now was your best player last season oh.

This year Costa has been the hitman, other players like Pedro, Kante, Moses are contributing at a high level but as usual its all about Hazard

Anyways never in the history of niggardom has a bad workerman failed to blame his tools

If signing the likes of Kroos or Iniesta guarantees zilch, then why don't recommend signing Ramires and Mikel next season for your team? Sell Alaba and buy Azpilicueta; then play him at left back instead. Sell Costa and Coman and buy Willian.

What is the exact point of that statement? Sanchez scored 47 goals for Barcelona in 3 seasons. It's not like he was a dud. Ozil scored 27 goals in 3 active seasons. Fabregas scored 42 goals in 3 seasons for Barcelona. So what is the point of that statement? That Hazard is not guaranteed to do well in those teams? Do tell me if I am missing something.


What you are doing is the same thing over. Taking apart, what should be a more holistic debate and then taking its individual parts to make arguments that don't hold water.

For instance, in one fell swoop, you are telling me that a Ramires who averages 50% percent pass completion rate against a Toni Kroos makes no difference to forward players. It doesn't matter when Ramires or Mikel plays, Bale and Ronaldo will still score the number of goals they do and reach the heights of success . This is what you are saying. How ridiculous!

So what if Willian was our best player in the league last year? That's another silly argument to use in this instance. Because in another argument, you would be discussing analytically, how senseless it is to not put that season in perspective. Willian scored 4 goals in the league. But now, it seems to fit for purpose. This is despite the fact that rational heads like mine have been calling Willian for what he is for eons - unproductive!


You are asking if we are as negative as Atleti but whenever we faced them, we were always the ones who parked the bus.



Finally, you need to treat each poster differently. What's the point grouping all posters as the same? I am not one of those fans boys who think Kante, Matic, Moses, Costa have not been as instrumental to our seasons as Hazard has been. My post has only attempted to bring to you possible hindrances to players' performance, that get constantly ignored, for the purpose of winning an argument.

If anything, you are the one telling me that it doesn't guarantee anything that you have good players. Why don't you try without good players?

Nihilist:
I thought Airmark was based in naija but with biz interests in the US. I didn't know he was there full time. Please leave thr money for him o. Trump will be voted in on Tuesday and that 100 pounds will be going towards his repatriation funds.

I heard Raumdeuter has already moved back home to Ogbomoso till after election

Hehehe.

A40:
What is he doing to make that team better in elite Europe? Blame what team? American wonder!

Chelsea fell from top 10/top 5 in Europe to not mentioned at all and banking on overrated players like Hazard is a big reason why

The likes of Suarez and Bale helped their clubs end 4 and 12 year CL droughts. KDB in his first year at City helped them to their first ever semifinal. Tell me what Hidden Hazard has helped Chelsea achieve?

At Lille he did nothing, in Chelsea he is doing nothing

Everyone knows I am a big Hazard fan. I don't join in the Hazard debate because truly, some of these young fellas are extremely ridiculous, in their support for Hazard. However, a few times, I see overly misplaced like the quoted above and I cannot help but say something.

Statements like these are just bogus and intentionally deceitful. They are only posted here for the sole purpose of winning points on an argument and willfully designed to be incoherent.

Yes Bale and Suarez helped their teams win CL but let's just play dumb and never mind that Bale also had Ronaldo, Modric, Kroos, Ramos, Benzema to name. As a matter of fact, those other players did 5hit. Bale did 95% and the rest only had marginal input. Let's pretend it doesn't help to have Ronaldo and Kroos alongside you.

Let's forget that Suarez plays alongside Messi, Neymar, Iniesta, Busquests, Pique, Rakitic. Let's pretend it doesn't help to have Iniesta and Messi.

Let's just shelf football analysis and ignore that instead of world footballers of years gone by, Hazard is playing alongside Willian who himself score only 4 a season average. Who hardly assists. Let's forget that instead of Neymar, he is playing alongside Pedro who himself was moved on because highly rated Neymar arrived. Let's ignore that Hazard was playing alongside Ramires and Mikel in midfield instead of Kroos and Modric.

Let's ignore that it is common knowledge that Hazard was constantly mandated to stick close to his left back at all times, in the world's worst negative tactics. Let's ignore that, until recently, Hazard was playing for 3 seasons, in front of a non-overlapping right back at left back. Let's ignore that until recently, Chelsea was known to never attempt any form of decent attacking football.

Let's just go for the easy and convenient and say "Hazard did nothing" as though, all the others he's being compared with, did it all by themselves. It wasn't a combination of several factors blending into one whole functional system. Let's just say Hazard did nothing to help his team, it's all his fault.



There are ridiculous arguments on the pro-Hazard front but then there are equally intentionally deceitful arguments, if not worse, on the anti-Hazard campaign.

Let's maintain perspective abeg.

dopeJemi:
I don't want to start going back to that comprehension thingy

Eder scored the winner for Portugal in the final in euros, what did he do before that? Nothing

Gotze scored the winner for Germany in the world cup, what did he do before that? Nothing

It's as simple as ABC

Bale, neymar, sanchez did not just only score in a final? They were detrimental to their respective teams from the start up to the final and they all scored when it mattered

What can be said of hazard aside PFA and man of the match awards?

Detrimental bawo?

Finally, everyone is coming around.

By the way, Hazard's just been named MOTM. Is that 4 in a row?

raumdeuter:
Disapearance in key CL games disagree with you
2 career goals from CL open play disagrees with you

Perhaps those performances are synonymous with the negative tactics we so heavily criticise.

Goaaaalllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

Nihilist:
Add Ibime to that list.

What Elders see sitting down . . . . .

Edeeeeeeennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

sephia:
How's the 'special' one doing these days? When we the elders said he was the problem we had last season some morrrons said it was mutiny, rats, traitors etc.
Conte is bae. Hazard is boo, Costa is boo boo. It feels good being a blue again.
Ok, bye.

Co-Elder. Preach!

Nihilist:
We dey host bonfire night for my ends so I just dey run up an down. No time to watch the game properly. But the bits I caught...ou la la.

Mate if you are watching this, you will be nothing but absolutely ecstatic! This is phucking mind blowing football.

Nihilist:
This is football!

Welcome.

Goaaaaallllllllll

Goaaaalllllllll

Edennnnnnnn!

Yes! Well done Borough

Ibime:
Hehehe. . . . nice one. Once you win, the rest na story.
I also wanted Kante as B2B and Matic sitting, and he's done just that.
Only thing I would recommend in addition is to recall Kenedy and Ake from loan. Kenedy to provide depth at LWB and Ake to provide depth at CM, LWB and LCB.
Oh. . . and tear up Mikels contract!

That's a good point you raise with Kennedy. Could very well be a solid player. I can imagine him being a nightmare in attack, as Moses is turning out to be.

bigkesh:
Its amazing how Conte gave everyone what they want in just a swing

Sent Oscar,Mikel and Ivanovic to the bins(Ibime)
Playing Hazard in a forward role with little defensive responsibilities (Hensben,Nateevs,Chelseafan1)
Changed the Foolish ninny mentality (Ibime)
Stopped Costa WWE career (Everyone)
Playing youth (hmmm,I wonder who this is)
Playing Kinta Kunte in a more advanced role(FBS)
Playing Luiz as a serious defender, whilst utilising his ball playing skills(Nateevs)

I tried to think of something he has done to please Nihilist, but bobo yen is soo hard to please

Hehehe. The Nihilist part is hilarious.

Meanwhile, I no see my name for "Playing Youth". Wetin happen?

Ibime:
Matic-Kante is what a balanced midfield looks like. Something I haven't seen at Chelsea since 2010. Impressed.

Whole-heartedly agree.

Shout out to Moses. Dude put in an extra shift ejo.

Goooaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

Nihilist:
Defensively though, we're looking admirable. Conte has really drilled the defence well.

Im still not sold at parking the bus against Soton though with scores only 1-0 in the 1st half.

Have you seen that press Nihilist? Those guys can press for the world. I think Conte realises we can easily be out-pressed by them and lose possession to them. Therefore, a low defensive block is the way to go. We are staying solid through the middle and forcing them to wing where Moses and Alonso have been doing their best to kill crosses.

When we do go forward, we attack with intent. We just need to get a second goal and we will get comfortable.

My boy Hazard comes up again. 1-0

Tammy Abraham on point again. Been following anxiously - the mini drought. That's 12 goals in all competitions. 9 goals in the league.

Funlordjnr:




Not suprising...Homosexuals are quite good a sniffing out large gatherings of virile males after all...and that particular gay beast is quite gifted in that regard!

You guys have to be careful with the things you place online. Such statements might be the only things standing between you and greatness in the future.

Good game. Sad to lose but at least we learn a few things.

THE BAD
Our second 11 needs some touch.
Willian runs a lot - back and forth, until the times arrives to make a decision.
Oscar still not good enough.
Time to say goodbye to JT


THE GOOD
Chalobah has a big future.
Aina can become another Azpilicueta. Not a star but extremely effective
Batshuayi needs to lay off twitter.
Our strong 11 in a 3-4-3 can be very rampaging and I believe we are going to do very well in the league.

Ibime:
http://www.eplsite.com/

Thanks Ibime.