₦airaland Forum

Nihilist:
Nateevs did you see that goal?

What tactical setup forced that tori olorun? Does that fact that we look decent against a very poor Leicester side suddenly turn Conte into a tactical genius...or are we forgetting what happened we played really decent teams?

There's a lack of nuance in this conversation and it's pretty irritating.

The mistake came about from the defenders second guessing the intentions of Hazard running through the centre, almost playing sometimes as a second striker. Hazard has been able to do that because Marcos is providing width on the left. Marcos is able to provide that width quickly because his starting position is from the middle of the pitch and not from full back position. All this is happening because Conte is implementing a 3-4-3.

How can this not be seen?

raumdeuter:
This one nko? Player brilliance, opponent error or just luck which one?

Nihilist argues that that is just pure luck from poor defending. He doesn't see that perhaps the tactical set-up is putting pressure on the opposition, causing them to make mistakes.

Goaaalllll

donjazet:
Superb freekick from Luis.

Superb

Nihilist:
To be honest, I don't...

I don't know if you're watching this game on Sky, so maybe you're not listening to the same commentary as I am...but I agree with them when they say we were gifted that goal...

I am watching on Sky and the commentators only mention poor defending for the goal. They don't mention we are not playing well.

The tactical set-up is ambitious and very effective. The midfield is flooded with options - defensively and offensively. And the evidence of that is in the ball possession 65% and creation of a number of chances already; whilst at the same time, limiting them to only one cross in chances created.

Nihilist be like 'I don't see any improvements and it doesn't look like it will happen'

.

Wetin na? Why are we using Conte and Sack in the same sentence, in October?

raumdeuter:
Are you serious about this?

BTW regarding those guys playing for Nigeria, Most of them dont have any connection to Naija beyond that their parents gave them Naija names, Some of them dont even speak any Naija Language, So when they see their talents might not make the European team they fall back to Nigeria

People like Chris Armstrong, Ugo Ehiogu, Efan Ekoku, John Salako Jordan Ibe, Dele Alli, Leon Balogun, Ikechi Anya, Dennis Aogo, Sidney Sam

Also from the commercial perspective, If you make it and make it big as a first teamer for a Grade A country then you are guaranteed a lot of endorsements vs making it for an African team

Imagine if Etoo at the peak of his powers when he was without doubt the best striker in the world chosen to play for Spain oe Okocha was English, or Drogba chose France or if Ozil had chosen Turkey, Henry had chosen some Caribbean country

Most of those guys who chose the lesser country probably thought at the time they made the decision that they wont be able to make the first team of the top team, If they were in demand by the top National team they might choose different

George Weah.

bigkesh:
Tammy Abraham and Solanke are eligible to play for Nigeria??
Shocking

Has Ibe made his debut for England yet?? We could use him

Apparently they are. But trust me, Tammy Abraham, if he continues the way he has, will never be allowed to play for anywhere else but England. Scored on his U21 debut today.

EDITED: Now scored 2 goals.


I don't think Ibe has played yet.

lalaboi:
How can you write so much words and still not make an iota of sensible contribution?

Only one set of fans from the north know how to do this.

Legend!

As we can see, it is always too easy to bash someone and rain insults on the board for not doing things right. Many times, the real position is that we don't have access to the right information. As it turns out, David Luiz is a very good deal, considering £51m pounds was offered for Koulibally and it was rejected. There's no knowing how much was demanded. £60m?

Perhaps I am just stuck in old times but for all his abilities and his age, ain't no way I am supporting sanctioning £60m for Koulibally.

3strikes:
Just read his response and tell me if this assphat called Lastpage /Excuzeme doesnt have a problem... Yes you can disagree with people but not by insulting them.
You wey dey sh!t for body wey come they say another person yansh dey smell. Isnt that hypocrisy?

Lastpage thinks with his feet. Head is empty.

NB: not all that can write can think.

@ Haaji just ignore the dunce..make he no come dirty you.

I do not know what the history is between you fellas, but here I feel I can come in. You cannot accuse someone of responding with insults, yet in the same post, call the person a dunce, claim the person thinks with their feet and that their head is empty. That is extremely contradictory.

In the interest of peace, you have to rise beyond the insults to stand a chance of stopping it completely. And so I ask politely, to please heed your own advice below and let's get the thread serving the purpose it was meant for.

Yes you can disagree with people but not by insulting them.

I was hoping to find useful information in here. It's pages of insults instead. How is this allowed to continue ?

Why do some salespersons do this? I ask a simple question, the answer to which is neither on the website nor on WhatsApp. But you send me there nonetheless. I just need a screenshot of a map at Lekki, with a marker indicating the exact position of this place. Can you kindly do this?

Di Matteo eh? Make I just leave story.

AdewaleAdron:
Our Rehoboth Park & Gardens is located at Ibeju-Lekki after eleko junction few minutes from La Campagne.
It falls under the Mawejo village excision and shares a boundary with Igbogun village excision. The estate is a 10 minutes drive from the prestigious Lekki Free Trade Zone.

Estates and other Landmarks within the neigbourhood include Amen Estate, Federal Government Teacher’s Estate, Lagos State Golf Course, Free Trade Zone, Cargo Port Construction, Seaport Construction, La Campagne Tropicana Beach Resort and Island International Airport.

Infrastructure in the estate include Transformer, Street Light, Electrification, Recreation Centre, Good Road Network, Perimeter Fencing, Drainage System and Water.

Visit http://adronhomesproperties.com/rehoboth-park-gardens/ and call 08102030355 for discount and inspection.

Can you place on google maps, the actual location of this estate? I will like to view the proximity to the main Lekki expressway?

Nateevs who made the league the benchmark for Liverpool?
Anyway...

It is generally accepted that the league is the true measure of a manager's influence. Why is the league performance of Liverpool conveniently being excluded from this discussion consistently?

Liverpool had only made top 4 once and often finished between 6th and 8the place in the 7 years preceeding Klopps arrival, so in terms of league finish Klopp was on par for the course in his first season.

Liverpool had not made it past semifinal in Europa in 6 years before Klopp and mostly struggled to get past group stages. Klopp got to the final in his first season with Liverpool.

I don't think it should even up for debate that Klopp immediately improved Liverpool. I remember when the time they beat us 3-1 within weeks of his arrival. I think 2 weeks if his arrival

You have failed to answer my question Nihilist. Why in your honest opinion did Pep say we need 10 players?

Conte and Jose are pretty much thr same thing now - tactically clueless. I don't know why you think I'm making excuses for Jose but I assure you that I am not.

If Conte makes top 4, that's all well and good. That is thr minimum I expect of this squad. I just don't think he can deliver...

The only tactically clueless one now is Jose, not Conte. As you opined, Jose identified his targets, got them and is still rubbish. As a matter of fact, he is suffering from a crisis of identity. He knows his football style will be vehemently refused at OT. He needs to introduce something aesthetically pleasing to the eye. Unfortunately, he never developed that aspect of his managerial skill but coveted the United job. Now the chickens have come home to roost.

Conversely, Conte identified his targets but got none of them. How can they be in the same boat? He has largely played a 4-3-3, a system imposed on him by the insufficiency in the team he inherited. Before Hull, he never started a game with 2 men in front, something he is known for. This is in stark contrast to Jose who got want he wants and is playing what he wants to.

Who's the real clueless one?

Let's insert perspective abeg.

Klopp made not one but two finals in a season he did not start, and with players he did not buy. Is that enough proof of a man who was able to hit the ground running?

Like I said, the league is the benchmark. Anyone can have a good cup run. Wenger consistently had poor league runs, and cup runs. Then hit two finals back to back. What does it suggest in isolation? Absolutely nothing. How did Klopp fare with the same players in the league? Inconsistently at the very best.

Pellegrini flopped with the same players that Pep is using to shine. Even in a vacuum, that suggests that Pep is a better tactician than Pellegrini.

No one argues this. My point is, it is selective argumentation to consider this in isolation. Yes, Pep is a better manager, but please tell me, why did Pep say Chelsea requires 10 players?

I'm not sure if you read Sinizia's post earlier. Right now Jose does not appear to know what he is doing and it is showing on the pitch. He has already said that he is trying to implement a different system at Manyoo to what he did with us when we played very defensively.

He came out early to say that he identified the 4 players he needed for his system, and he bought all of them. Yet the team looks disjointed and dull. Only this Thursday, he was saying how 'confused' Pogba was because they prepared for one tactics and Zorhya came and played another type of ball.

This does not sound like someone who even knows what he's doing yet, so ofcourse I'm not surprised that his team are struggling a bit.

Exactly. So Conte is playing a 4-3-3. A system he normally doesn't play with the players he does entirely want. How would he not struggle? Is this not the argument being put forward? But somehow, under the same set of circumstances, Jose's situation is understandable but Conte's isn't?

The best from our boys is a title win or top 4 place. These boys have done both within the last 3 years. I hope you haven't forgotten.

Bros abeg forget this. I get money before no be anything. If you think this team can win the league, you are on a long thing. Top 4 max. But I am surprised you don't think Conte can make top four.

Nateevs

Arsenal has changed their system this season bro. Even Arsenal fans will tell you that.Did you see what they to us? When have you seeen Arsenal boys playing like they just got hooked up with Walter White?

It doesn't matter. What matters is that it is the same Manager implementing any change. The Manager, who has been there for years, would be in a great position to assess that the players can adapt to this change. And this is the most important point. The manager did not go on a senseless tactical change. He knew his players would adapt to the change - which is the same as having the players for the change.

Klopp had an immediate effect on Liverpool bro. Do you remember there Europa cup run? Do you remember their rounds against Dortmund?

Nobody cares about the cup run. What effect did he have in the league? We are comparing immediate effects with Conte's right? So the League is the benchmark. And no, he did not have any meaningful effect on the League. There were a few English fans already thinking he was a flash in the pan.

Pep completely destroys your argument. He went to the place where the 10 players he wanted were in place and was working wonders. Yet Pellegrini had those same Guys and couldn't do the same magic? How come? I can guarantee you that if Klopp came to the bridge this very second, you will see an immediate difference.

You keep missing the point. If Klopp comes to Chelsea and it so happens that we have the players to execute his system, then it will work. Otherwise, it wouldn't. End of.

To the other point of Pep/Pellegrini, let's not reduce the complicacy of football to mere ABCs. Pep is arguably the best Manager in the world. Are we arguing if Conte & Pellegrini are as good as Pep? That at the same time does not mean the best Manager in the world does not require a certain class of resources to help his vision. This is heavily documented.


Can you use your logic to explain why Jose Mourinho has not had an immediate effect at United?

Like I said earlier, I'm happy to be proved wrong and ofcourse I want what's best for the team. I really don't think that Conte is tactical enough to get the best of our boys.

Please elucidate, what exactly is 'the best of our boys'?

Nihilist:
Good morning Egbon nateevs.

Happy Sunday and Eku Independence.

With all due respect, I feel that your post up there has actually undermined your argument rather than strengthened it.

Liverpool, Arsenal and Man City have largely unchanged squads to last season but the results couldn't be anymore different.

Liverpool that finished in 8th place last season are now mountinh a title charge. City that barely managed to get into 4th place last season are looking nigh on unstoppable now. Arsenal that capitulated their title challenge in such spectacular manner are playing like men on a mission.

Bar one or two players, the overwhelming majority of the players you mentioned were at the same clubs last season.

So what's changed?

Pep went to City and has completely ignored defending and focused on attack. Wenger is now playing Sanchez up front, which has allowed Walcott back into the team with devastating effect.
Klopp's system was already looking like bearing dividends having appeared in two finals last season, and with one or two additions to the squad, has crafted a tsystem so deadly that their best striker can't even make the first 11.

Good players are great to have, but a great system makes average players look great. Compare sterling of last season to this season. Look at what's happening at Spurs. Lamela, Son, Dembele, Sissoko. These are all players that were suffering stagnation in their careers until they met Pochettino.

So yeah we might have some crap players. But I have not seen anything from Conte to suggest that he has the ability to get the best out of these guys.

That's where I'm coming from.

Hey Nihilist. Ekaaro o. Aku Independence. So the chickens are coming home to roost. Eventually!


Did you notice that as you mentioned those teams, you never mentioned Manchester United, their new manager and their "method of attack" ? Why na? Well, the answer is glaring. |nd guess what? That manager was at Chelsea for 3 seasons. And that is the legacy he left - an unidentifiable method of play, coupled with the players to execute anything.

And this is the crux of my argument.

My post did not undermine my argument. There's a limit to what I can say in any one post without writing an article.



Now before you attack me with your main point, I give you this.

Arsenal - The fact that the team is largely unchanged is irrelevant to this discussion. The most important thing is that they've had the same manager for a decade, they've played the same way for close to that. You cannot beat Conte with this stick, it is unfair. Wenger has had a decade, moving players in and out and has been able to fill the team with players to play the way he wants. Has Conte had that yet?

So Wenger moved Sanchez to attack and they are blazing. But Sanchez has been at Arsenal for 3 seasons now. How has Wenger not figured this out until now?

Adaptability is the answer. Because all things do not come to the Managers at a single time. And adaptability is what Conte has in abundance. Give him a chance.



Liverpool - Klopp was there last season wasn't he? Were they immediately playing like what they are now? Did they have an immediate, recognizable pattern of play? No, they didn't. So why are flogging Conte with this stick?

Instead, Klopp needed half a season and a summer of moulding and identifying the right targets, to get his ideas through. You cannot underestimate the inclusion of Wijnaldum, Mane and Firminio. How many players of Conte's choosing has he been able to bring in?



Man-City - This club and Pep highlight the crux of my argument.

Pep's response to the prospect of joining Chelsea was 'Chelsea required 10 new players' Why did he join City? Because City already had those 10 players he required to enable execution his system. Simple as! He chose well and chose the club that will make his work easier. So while you here hailing Pep's system, you are seriously undermining the resources it takes to do the job right. Pep's response tells us that he (Pep) would have failed at Chelsea. But we are here calling Conte average, for being unable to inspire the same team to a recognizable method of play.




Chelsea - After 3 seasons of utter dross in terms of playing style, Conte came in. And those who watched us in the summer immediately recognized the pattern of play Conte wanted to introduce. It was a clear 2-striker system with very quick transitions from defense to attack through the channels. The movement was quick and play was exciting to watch.

Unfortunately, it all collapsed after the Madrid game when Conte suddenly realised that the team was not made for that. He switched to a 4-3-3 ever since. Conte does not ever play a 4-3-3. We all know this. In other words, he is essentially sacrificing his philosophy for the way the team has been set-up. He, unlike Pep, has chosen wrongly. And this is the only thing I blame him for.

Nonetheless, he switched. He remained ever adaptable, did not stay dogged with a failing formula, instead moved to a formula for the team, even in the Pre-Season.

I read about and understood his system. His formula relies on every player being mobile in defence, technical in attack and better than average passers of the ball. Now I don't know what was promised to Conte at the negotiations of his employment but I gather that he asked for at least a ball-playing defender, two mobile midfielders, and two attackers. Chelsea tabled bids for the likes of Morata, Koulibally, Naingollan amongst others. There were strong links to the likes of Bonucci, Romagnoli, Mahrez, Payet and James Rodriguez. In fact, I compiled a list of 20 bonafide targets over the summer. I will find the list and send to you. Diego was meant to leave as well.

Not one single target of Conte's made it to Chelsea. Kante was a backup and Conte okayed it. Luiz and Alonso were last minute buys after it became apparent that the targets will not materialise. Not a single target.

What I believe is that, because of the intent displayed over the summer, Conte was promised a squad overhaul for his system. Other managers have the resources to make their methods work. Conte hasn't. He has been coasting, patching. I blamed him for going back on his philosophy but I hail for being adaptable. I suggested last week that he should fail using his own methods; if he is going to.

He's changed it now. I see improvements. The team set-up was brilliant even though it didn't appear so. There were options, much better than a 4-3-3 were the midfield sometimes looked empty and strikers were isolated. Moses looked lively. Even though he still has a problem with decision making. I already read Kante beat his own personal record with 79 passes and 89% passing success rate, 4 interceptions, 13 ball recoveries, 3/3 take-ons, 2 chances created.

Other will follow when they adapt.

Greatihex:
even if i should agree with you, what stopped conte from getting the kind of players he wants during the summer transfer window?

You talk like you became a Chelsea fan 2 weeks ago. Are you seriously asking this question? Did you not follow the summer transfer activities?

idupaul:
The govt as an entity saved 10 billions dollars by removing subsidy but our GDP and balance of trade wouldn't reflect it because that cost was just passed on from the govt to Nigerians. The only way that would be a gain is if we refine our own products locally . Do you think those countries exporting refined products to us noticed any loss? No they didn't because the only thing that changed is the govt passing the cost of subsidy directly to the consumer.

You are misinforming the public and people are liking it without checking. Did you even read the main article well?

bigkesh:
We need to raid Bundesliga and Ligue 1......Gladbach,BVB and Schakle


Goretzka,Pulisic,Dahoud,Brandt,Tolisso,Lemar,Fekir e.t.c

Seriously I can't keep watching Willian,Oscar,Matic and co......

We own Mario Pasalic, a player I believe shouldn't have gone on loan. We can do with him now. I hope Conte can see this. If we can buy back Thorgan Hazard, buy a new DM and allow Kante play box to box. Pasalic, Kante and Thorgan will give us good options. We can create a better team, pending the summer when we can make wholesome changes.

bigkesh:
Same thing Conte is doing

For a manager renowned for playing 2 strikers, 3 defenders, and wing-backs, it will be an extremely misplaced argument, suggesting that Conte's first approach is preventing the opposition from playing.

There is a difference between trying to solidify the team and making it hard to beat and downright parking the bus.

Nihilist:
The players are letting him down defensively no question.

But Mancity Arsenal and Liverpool are very dodgy at thr back but excel going forward.

We have a striker in superhot form and Hazard. The manager doesn't look like he is trying to get the best out of them to me.

Excel going forward you say.

ManCity - Sterling, Aguero, Molito, Toure, Gundogan, Silva, DeBRyune, Sane, Ihenacho . . . .
Arsenal - Carzola, Xhaka, Ozil, Ramsey, Perez, Chamberlain, Sanchez, Iwobi,
Liverpool - Lallana, Wijnaldum, Coutinho, Firminio, Mane, Surridge, Origi. . .


Have you seen those players? Please tell me what is common with these players? Brilliant technical ability on the ball, passing ability way above average, vision and football intelligence. Tell me if this doesn't immediately half the work of the manager.

Please tell me what we have at Chelsea. I mean, Ramires was being paraded as one of the starting 11 of Chelsea this time last year by Mr Defensive football, while the likes of DeBruyne, Mata, Luiz and other ball holding players were being sold. Rami-fucking-res in our midfield for Bleep's sake - only because he could run.

For 3 seasons, I complained about the same deficiencies - Hazard being our only creative outlet. I complained about Willian being of average output, about our 'method of attack' amongst many others. Now these issues we consciously condoned are coming back to bite us in the ass.

Let's have perspective for heaven's sake.


This problem did not start today. When we were busy spending billions arranging a mechanical team and hailing the system that created it, I was stating for years that you cannot build a dynasty when your first approach to football is preventing others from playing.

Over a billion spent and we are back where we started - mid-table.



This is not Conte's fault. Let the man some space and let us for once, accept that we need time to build anything long-lasting.

Greatihex:
exactly my sentiments. His Italian team really pleased me. That is what I want.

His Italian team really pleased you. How do you think that came about? Because he got to choose his own freaking players. You know he can do a good job; indeed you have been pleased by one of his teams but you are unwilling to give him time to choose his own players, build his own team and get a chance to please you.

You guys are spoilt.

bigkesh:
Lampard-esque

He's scored another after that. The one you talk about is his third one.

bigkesh:
11 goals in all competitions

Charlie colkett has 2 goals,he has only started once

Baker has 4 in 8

Yes Baker has 4. Did you see his last goal?

Tammy Abraham 8 goals, 3 assists already.

Full time. 3 points required, 3 points earned.

Alonso is really a poor player.