₦airaland Forum

cap28:
you build a mall in the middle of a giant slum and call that development.

when is Fashola going to get round to cleaning up that giant slum and providing decent housing for 90% of the population of that hell hole?

what is the point of putting up a supermarket in a state that is the equivalent of a giant compost pit?

That was cold.

Time to begin to prepare to answer ya papa names. That country is so, so diminished now. Pity.

^^^^^

"developing nations" still categorized as "under developed"

What was that? Abi dey don put us for 4th world category and I no know? Please fill me in. Thanks.

manny4life:
Cool, that you speak authoritatively when you have personally investigated including physical presence, therefore, I rest my case.
You're a biologist, I'm not, and unfortunately, my finance and economics doesn't define the both as the same thing. Nigeria is growing at a rate of 7.3% based upon our GDP, but ask yourself, has Nigeria developed since then? Are we developing at same rate we're growing?


Peace!

In biology they are a web of intricate processes. You grow first and development follows automatically. By any definition, biology or finance, we are developing (rather slowly, I admit). Otherwise, we won't be celebrating some of the modest achievements we post here.

KnowAll:
If what someone said a few post back that this mall's rent is some N400,000 a quarter and a would be shop owners would need to make a sale of N1 million every 3 months, then it would be safe to say this mall would probably go down the road of 'Tinapa' except of course if this white elephant project is going to be used by the elite's wives to wash money.

By washing money I mean launder ill gotten funds through this conduit, obviously in such instances profit which is the bane of every business, would not be the funder-mental principle and cornerstone of the perpetrators here, rather getting back and out quickly a healthy % of the ill gotten wealth as sales made, thereby legitimizing the fraud would be paramount.

Any idea how much rent money the same type of mall (the one on Eko Ile's thread) goes for?

manny4life:
LOL satisfy me?   Hmm, you got jokes. I'm not Chino and co, I try to stay away from unnecessary argument that gives me headache, particular when I have to drink Advil for it. I'm so not arguing with you my brother, I was only saying perception of the mind is what we interpret reality to be, nothing else. I gave the gov credit where it's due; it's up to par per Nigerian standards but def not world class, did I not say that?  My point is what you perceive as standard is def not what others perceive, can we at least agree on that? You're right, you d have it on good authority that there's no place in SE like it is in the video, but my point has been, how can you assert such claims when you haven't toured more than half of the whole SE states, or did I make a mistake and ask wrong question?

Finally,you don't have to tell me that Anambra is quite under achieving because I know it's potentials which are not being made use of and I'm not making excuse of it, however, my point is, regardless on how you intend to perceive it, people think differently and it's something you cannot change. My first response was, SE is growing but WE ARE NOT DEVELOPING. Gradual progression is cool, but what I see in general is SNAIL PROGRESSION; though I want to cause a change, but for now, it doesn't matter whether it's Anambra, Abia, Enugu etc, my perception is still my opinion. I hope that satisfies you, the man from Abia,

On the bolded yes I do know authoritatively that there is none else. I have investigated personally, including physical presence.
As a biologist I find your differenciation of growing and development not quite amusing. When you grow you are automatically developing.
One love.

jason123:
Apart from that, how can someone name Enugu in the same sentence as Abuja?

They were named because someone (Gar3th, I think) named those same places as not being cities. Do you read or you just jump in when you wish to do so?

GAR3TH:
\Its common sense bro. . .

Known Urban sprawls of Clark County, Nevada, USA

[img]http://deved.meted.ucar.edu/hydro/basic_int/flood_frequency/media/graphics/NRCSNV00020.jpg[/img]

Abuja

https://i40.tinypic.com/2j5fbco.jpg

Urban Sprawl of St. George, Utah

https://www.wildhorizons.com/wp/wp-content/gallery/Part%201_GilaMonsters/images/UT-1929_UT-aerial-urban-sprawl.tif.jpg

Abuja

https://i43.tinypic.com/73i16u.jpg

You keep contradicting yourself. You and I have agreed that the definition is based on the country. Nigerian feds and 99% of Nigerians define Abuja and Enugu as cities. The rest na waste of time, sorry.

manny4life:
I'm glad you said "Perception is not the same as reality", you said it yourself. It's what you and I perceive is what we interpret. You obviously perceived otherwise about Anambra traders, cool, nothing wrong with that, but who said Anambra doesn't have decent clinics? Oh btw, they are decent, at least up to par per Nigerian standards but def not world class,  Perhaps, why would you assume that Abia is to healthcare, when you particularly haven't toured more than half of other eastern states? In other words, I think it all boils down to, perception of the mind. It's what we believe it's what's reality.

Do we have such health centre as shown in that video anywhere else in the SE. No? I have that on good authority. Yet am not here to argue. Thanks.
Anambra in my opinion is one of the greatest Igbo states but for some reasons (including but not limited to the fact that money-miss road traders and uneducated people hold it in the jugular while most educated ones live outside) it is under achieving. Even Onlytruth our eze here on nairaland knows and acknowledges that. On average individual basis, Anambra Igbos are the richest Nigerians. Hope that satisfies you, Anambra man?

afam4eva:
Congrats to the Ikwerre-Igbo-Nigerian-African-Human guy.

He is from Imo State

BIOGRAPHY*

From*http://eboe-osuji.com/shortbio.htm

A Very Short Biography

AGE:*49 years (born 2 September 1962).

PLACE OF BIRTH:*Añara, Imo, Nigeria.

PROFESSION:*Barrister, since 1986.

FAMILY STATUS:*Married, with three children.

CALLS TO BAR:*(1) Nigeria; (2) Ontario, Canada; and, (3) British Columbia, Canada.*

ACADEMIC LEGAL EDUCATION:*(1) Doctor of Laws (PhD) [in international criminal law], University of Amsterdam, Amsterdam, the Netherlands; (2) Master of Laws (LLM), McGill University, Montréal, Canada; (3) Canadian Bachelor of Laws (LLB) Equivalency Studies, McGill University (for Certificate of Qualification of the Canadian Federation of Law Societies); (4) Bachelor of Laws (LLB), University of Calabar, Nigeria.

PROFESSIONAL LEGAL EDUCATION:*(1) Barrister-at-Law Degree, Law Society of British Columbia (Canada); (2) Barrister-at-Law Degree, Law Society of Upper Canada;*(3) Barrister-at-Law Degree, Council of Legal Education of Nigeria.

SUMMARY OF EMPLOYMENT HISTORY:*(1)*CURRENTLY:*(i) The Legal Advisor to the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights; (ii) Principal Appeals Counsel for the Prosecution in the Case of Charles Taylor (former President of Liberia), Office of the Prosecutor, Special Court for Sierra Leone. (2)*FORMERLYi) Head of Chambers (i.e. the principal judicial legal officer), International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda (ICTR);*(ii) Senior Appeals Counsel, Special Court for Sierra Leone; (iii) Counsel, Borden Ladner Gervais LLP, Ottawa, Canada; (iv) Senior Legal Officer in Chambers, ICTR; (v) Senior Trial Counsel for the Prosecution, ICTR; (vi) Prosecution Counsel, ICTR; (vii) Litigation Partner, Eboe-Osuji & Adetunji, Toronto, Canada; (viii) Litigation Counsel, Robinson Hinkson, Toronto, Canada; (ix) Litigation Associate, Russell & DuMoulin, Vancouver, Canada;*(x) Litigation Associate, Ugochuku & Co, Port Harcourt, Nigeria.

ACADEMIC EMPLOYMENT:*Former lecturer in international criminal law, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, Canada.*

SUMMARY OF LEGAL SCHOLARSHIP:*C Eboe-Osuji (ed),*Protecting Humanity*[Leyden, Martinus Nijhoff: 2010]; C Eboe-Osuji,*Modern International Law and Sexual Violence in International Armed Conflicts[Leyden, Martinus Nijhoff: forthcoming 2011]; numerous articles and book chapters and guest lectures.

Read full article

GAR3TH:
Isn't that what I said earlier, We basically went full circle. vvv

Precisely why I ask you who are those people considering Enugu and Abuja mere urban sprawls.

jason123:
Nchara, what is your definition of a city and please give examples of cities in Nigeria that fulfill your criteria of a city.

Read my posts from the beginning. You will find the answer to your question.
This is my thread and I have contributed significantly to it. So won't have to repeat myself. Thanks.

GAR3TH:
Not sure were Ojoo is but if you have to drive to Dubge ( by train station) to got to a bank then it must mean your coming from the outskirts of the city, Hence the suburbs of ibadan.

What I was Driving at is a city is largely dense regardless of its population. That there are more people living in a giving area than a town. Since its largely dense you see more people, services, businesses and more homes per mile. Enugu and Abuja are considered cities by FG and states gov but in the mindset of people Abuja and Enugu will be considered urban sprawls.

Ojoo is in the city just a couple blocks from U.I. There is no train station. You ride the bus, your car or an Okada.

Who are these people considering Enugu and Abuja as urban sprawls?

From indications (and I have searche quite a bit), each govt defines what places are considered cities in its country. In that case many places in Nigeria will be cities.
The points I put up earlier are my own definition
For me, a 50K population plus the other factors I mentioned suffices for a city.

I live in a place of about 50K people. This place has 10 banks, 50 industries that employ a minimum of 20 persons, one university, two post offices, one airport, no skyscrappers (tallest building will be no more than 6 storey), sparsely populated that you have to drive at least 2 miles to get to some shops. Yet, if I post the photo of this place, you will have a feel of what a city should look like (apologies to Abagworo). The US govt lists the place as a city and in one of the recent years, it was one of the best cities to live in in the USA. Are they wrong?

Nchara:
Yes Mbaise is more than 300K, the most populous area of Imo state. Could be up to 1 ml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mbaise

Why I said could be.

Our census is fake, anyways.

alj_harem:
I would like to separate some facts here.

What makes Onitsha , benin and co a city is the opportunities those cities provides along side the diverse population and amenities.

although with things like malls and cinemas in enugu now, it would be expected to grow into a city.

What is meant by diverse population? Are those huge Indian and Chinese cities with non diverse populations no longer cities?

What does the link you posted earlier say about Enugu? With or without Malls and Cinemas, Enugu is already a city. So the issue of growing into a city is rubbish. Ogbomosho does not have a ''mall'' and someone insists (and perhaps rightly too) that it is a city. Wetin you dey drink?

alj_harem:
mbaise more than 300,000 when the population of Imo state does not support it.

Yes Mbaise is more than 300K, the most populous area of Imo state. Could be up to 1 ml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mbaise

GAR3TH:
Compare this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUP9U2Gj3-Q
to this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG8o5y5BmGs

Which one looks like a town and which one looks like a city.  Enugu is not densely populated and its development are spread out. A city in the minds of people is a place were you can easily walk from place to place and not have to drive 5 miles just to go shopping. Hence why I said enugu and abuja is an urban sprawl. compared that to Ibadan or PH, though you may have to drive sometime but for the most part everything is relatively close.

In other words a city, in the minds of many, is a place with high density and mixed zones.

If you live in Ojoo which is part of the Ibadan city metropolis, you will have to drive to Dugbe axis to get to a bank, no? Same for those living in areas around Akobo etc. How convenient is that? As far as I know in Enugu metropolis there is no place you will drive 5 miles before you see a shop, etc. Not sure what you are driving at here.

9jaganja:
subconsciously or intentionally, you were being biased toward your SE "cities" yes I accused you of tribalism and I stand by that. But the basis of your ethnic bias is suppose to be mechanical modernization not settlement,  Simple,

May be you are ignorant as to what a city is or is not hence you think, skyscrappers constitute a city. You were quick to mention places in the east which  by your standard won't even qualify as a city onitcha/Aba for example,  These are messed up places and calling them cities will make Ajegunle also in their league.

Really, I'm not the first to accuse you of tribalism. And YES your intentions were to paint other people as never developing while you "SE" is el dorado!!!

Funny how only the Yorubas here see tribalism. I do not know on this thread where I have painted SE as eldorado. I will be pleased that you point that to me. I believe your tribal sentiment is beclouding you big time. I can't help you on that, sorry. You say I am ignorant as to what a city should look like yet I have listed all my criteria for what a city should be and maintained that no single factor tells the whole story. Where did I insist that skyscrappers constitute a city?. Could it be that you are too illiterate to read my posts or you are too tribally consumed that you do not want to? And don''t go to the ''Aba/Onisha messed up'' angle otherwise Ibadan and a huge swathe of LAGOS are also as messy. I lived in those places and I know, ok?

Now if you have nothing more meaningful to say, hop of my thread. Thanks.

chino11:
^ And who told you that enugu state is liveable more than Anambra is? All those people from Anambra that you see today in enugu are the people who were there before the creation of new Anambra state, and am sure that greater part of them have since relocated to Anambra, Awka precisely. Am a living witness to that.

With all the security challenges in PH people and investors have not stopped trooping to the state. So people tend to go where the economy is more vibrant and viable no matter the circumstance surrounding it. But you can keep living in dead illusion that people are coming to enugu whereas the place is as empty as a cocoon.

This means you are basically stark and irredeemable, I think faith-based organization should be our last recourse in your condition but you have proved to be stubborn to all medications.

For me, Enugu is the most livable city in the SE. I am from Abia, so am not hamstrung by you guys' internecine petty squabbles and should be able to say my mind

Apart from my own villa, I will live first in Enugu, Owerri and Umuahia before anywhere else in the SE.

Chino can you point to any known anambra politician (Ekwueme, Dora, Ojukwu, Ngige, etc, etc etc) who lives(d) in Onitsha or Nnewi? Only hard traders  and die-hard business brothers do. Even Uba lives in Enugu. Aba, Onitsha and Nnewi are too rough and maddening for any soft person to live in.

chino11:
@ Criminal bandit, Am re-posting this: you must tell me where you bad a;s;s got it wrong. Tell us in a clear-cut statement why can't you people contribute anything economically meaningful to the SE. Does it mean that you guyz lost the exposure we Anambrans through the great Zik gave you backward guyz? Tell us, let put anger and quarrels away from this for once, come lets reason together as nwanne.  

OK check out this analysis: Inputs by states in SE:

Anambra: Huge human/natural capital, River Port, Huge Economic/Commercial, Orient Oil & Gas Refinery, Academicians

Imo: Huge Human Capital, Oil & Gas, Academicians, Agriculture

Abia: Huge Economic/Commercial, Oil & Gas, Agriculture

Ebonyi: Huge Natural Endowment, Huge Agricultural activities, Huge skilled, unskilled & Semi-skilled man- power

Enugu: [b]Coal, No Human Capital, No Economic activity. No Agriculture.[/b]


Umunna, I stand to be corrected if Enugu state is not a parasite and dragging the rest of the SE back.

lol ! Where is that in red coming from? Enugu is next to Ebonyi in agriculture and he number of natural resources in the SE. Those two can feed all alaigbo

What is meant by academician here? This guy is funny. Bandit C, I think Chino is just taunting you and you keep falling for him

GAR3TH:
There is no real definition to what a city is, for example the smallest city in NY State is Sherrill with a population of 3,000 people while at the same time the largest town in New York state is The town of Hempstead with a population of 760,000. Like I said before cities and towns are defined by administrations like the case in NY or by people's common knowledge and perception.

According to the state of NY sherrill is a city but according to me and others sherill will be consider a town through our perception of what a town should be. So yes, Nigeria and it states may consider Enugu a city but many people will consider Enugu a large town. It doesn't look, act, feel or have the same flow as what we expect from a city. Compared to Kano, Kaduna, Benin, PH, Ibadan and Lagos, Enugu and even abuja would be considered suburban sprawls.

On the bolded: Many people like who?

What makes Benin and PH different from Enugu? Their population difference? What is your own pop cut off? How is Abuja an urban sprawl and not a city? How is Ibadan (Indeed, Ibadan is a city as I have repeated here) a city with all its own urban sprawls (Ojoo, Moniya, etc) and Abuja will be a mere urban sprawl and not a city, according to you?

chino11:
Then how are we sure that vision-less leaders will use the funds appropriately

Of course they won't. But who is visionless now?

9jaganja:
I think Nchara wants to debate modernization not city/town settlement!!

And you know that how? Yesterday you accused me of tribalism on account of this thread and now you divine for me what I intended to discuss? Men!!! I tire for some people

Hey folks

This is ma thread and I say that population is one among the factors but not the determining factor that make a city
Why can't someone post somthing where population was the only factor used to define a city
What population cut off? DK says 300K and I ask where he got that from.

Like Lagos, Ibadan deserves to be in two different cities
The fact that everything is rolled into one there may be the reason for its arrested development. It should have been bigger than it is now.

However the different towns in Lagos have confluenced  so much that you cannot get two cities out of it. Thus, Lagos is now a conurbation

9jaganja:
What makes a city is functional not infrastructural. The commercial activities going on in Ibadan beats that of a lot of cities in Nigeria in fact, only cities in Ibadan's league are Kano, Lagos, Onitcha and Aba. Coupled with Cultural activities and socio political activities, Aba, Onitcha won't be in Ibadan's league because Onitcha/Aba hold no political/cultural relevance within their region that isn't trumped  by the capitals of the states they are in.

You are right in many places but no one is comparing cities here. We are saying that our states have [b]mostly [/b]one city in them. Is this wrong or right?

The uniqueness of Ibadan (capital city, population and SIGNIFICANT commerce/industry all rolled in one) is exactly the same reason why I would not consider ogbomosho a city. Only few cities such as PH, Kano, Kaduna, Benin to mention a few will compare to Ibadan in that uniqueness described above.  

The downside to that is that those states are saddled with one-city state structures.

Abia, Anambra, Delta and a few others are unique in their own way in that they have the admin cities separated from the business/industrial cities
Culture does not make a city, I believe. Every group has their own culture and no culture is superior to the other.

manny4life:
Hey, what can I say about the video? Give me an hour, I will look at the video and will be back with my verdict.

Though you have stated "world class" as relative term" but relative to what exactly? Like, seriously, what is the correlation? I'm sorry but I'm a bit confused, Help me understand how you mean.

Dude, when I said trade, you know exactly how I mean; everyone trades, no argument but what I mean is the volume of trade (count me out if you want me to go into unnecessary argument over this). They can get an A, after all you have different cities, but there are "Large Cities" with large population, development, growth etc, use the same theory and apply. If that doesn't work, then I guess I can't be of much help to you.

Perception is not the same as reality. They all deserve an A. Those three groups I mentioned are competing nicely and healthily and there is no evidence to show that one is doing dramatically better than the others. Many of the traders in Onisha are from Imo and Abia as many of the traders in Aba are from Anambra and Imo.

Per the world class thingy, relative is per Nigerian standard. May be I should say ''Nigerian class''.

JamesDoe:
You grouped Lagos with Abuja. And then said "for obvious reasons". That's the bit I was curious about.

The World Bank is yet to define a city, but uses a "generally accepted" basis.

If you want a Nairaland definition it would be hard.  Some will argue that Maiduguri is a city, whilst others would say no!

Is Ikeja a city? But it's GDP is more than some states in Nigeria. What about Lokoja?

Those two (Lag and Abuja) are on a different level in Nigeria than other cities/towns. That is obvious enough.
GDP would be a poor yardstick to call a place a city.

scholes0:
Look, I dont even need to reply you anymore.
Just go to google and type in the word ''city''

There is no general consensus in English language, on what a city must specifically have, but in ALL definations However, Population is the single most important factor.
If Facilities were the single most defining factors, then most sub-urban towns would qualify as CITIES, While dilapidated city centers, would not.

Duh! If only you will read, you would have noticed that I maintain that pop is impt but not the only factor, and no where have I sad facilities are either. There is no where on the internet where you can show me that pop is the only important consideration. Okay?

There are rural areas in china and India with over 1 million pop.
What is the pop a place has to have to be considered a city? (This is fluid because there is no number as a consensus). It can range from some odd 3K to millions.
How many Nigerian cities meet that specific number if any number can be said to be specific?

JamesDoe:
Pray tell,

What is the obvious reason for leaving Lagos out? Or do you really believe that the Federal govt did all the development in Lagos? Or can you not see development still happening.

Who is leaving Lagos out?
Even if the feds did all the development, does that make Lagos not a city?

If there is something bigger than a city, then by all means Lagos deserves that (by Nigerian standards still)

GAR3TH:
Nchara why do I have a feeling your replying based on ethnic sentiment 

It is your prerogative to have any feeling you wish to have. I would like that you explain how Kano, Kaduna, Benin PH and Ibadan would be cities and Enugu not.
I am leaving Lagos and Abuja out of it for obvious reasons.

scholes0:
This Nchara guy is being Delusional, compareing Okene , to  Idanre or some other unknown vicinity.

A city is MOSTLY defined on Basis of population.

BTW:That a place is a small town of 50,000, with all the Paved roads, Light rails, Bullet trains, high rises of this world, wont make it a city, if it doesen't have the required population,

If we use the US as a yardstick (which I am trying hard to avoid since this thread is about Nigeria), a place of even 30K people with all those facilities you listed above is a city. Please check out American cities. And please tone down on the insults okay? I can only continue replying you if you are civil enough. Thanks.