₦airaland Forum

jason123:
Atleast you agree. It shows we can dialogue.

okay, you and I know that the north does not want resource control. Why? because they would be the worst of the bunch! Firstly, the yorubas have the largest gas reserves in nigeria, the SS has oil (we all know) and the east has oil too but not as much as the SS or SW but its complimented by their hardworking and industrious nature. The north. . . . .I have not seen anything tangible (no offence, seriously). As for the negotiation, IF THE SW,SS AND SE WITH THE MIDDLE BELT want to leave THEN THERE WOULD BE NO NEED FOR NEGOTIATION. Why? why should they negotiate if nothing would be gained? And why would the North want to wipe out themselves So there would be no negotiation. If there is, ITS AN ACT OF GOOD WILL.

PS: I have tried to reduce the offensiveness of the post but this is the best. Pls, be mature about your reply.

edited

I warned you to stay focused, but it appears as if I may have to get my cudjel to encourage complaince. My posts on this thread are in direct response to the thread’s topic. I will not get into a discussion of how to amicably split the rest of the country because that will not happen anytime soon. I will be prepared to discuss a split after you and others tell us how you will negotiate this split. If by SNC as most of you seem to prefer, who will represent each group and its interests – the same leaders that are in power at the moment? If so, then the status quo will remain. How do you plan to seize power from these people when they have the big guns and the money? Once you show me you can have a true SNC excluding the current crop of leaders from discussions, then we can discuss splitting up – before then it’s a useless notion.

@PhysicsMHD - no vex.

It belongs to Nigeria but in the case of a split, you do not have an access to the ocean so how can you claim an oil well there if its not part of your territory? You would not even have a navy talkless of an oil well! Take a look at your map and see if it is possible for the north to claim an oil well. Even if they do, I can put my money that the IJAWS would NEVER allow you guys to tap a drop of oil talkless of the yorubas and igbos!

Do you know that your post above is not necessarily inconsistent with what I am saying? At the moment, the off shore oil and the resources therein belong to Nigeria.  In case of a split, I agree with everything you've written. I am not however delusional enough to think that a split that would allow the coastal areas to keep all the off shore resouces without a well-negotiated agreement is possible. That is why I insist that you cannot give to the North what does not belong to you.

Even if we agree to 100% resource control under our current system, no region can claim 100% of offshore oil or other resouces that may be located 100 miles from land, on the Atlantic.

jason, do you believe that the territorial waters and the resources therein belong to the coastal regions as opposed to Nigeria?

@PhysicsMHD,  Please point out the spin, I'm big enough to accept valid correction. I dey wait. Why does your user name keep changing from thread to thread? Lets hope you haven't been spending too much time in the romance area and harassing the girls in manners that get you banned

You and jason have to do better than name calling.

onlytruth: What is incoherent about the fact that groundnut was NOT the only export earnings accruing to the federal coffers prior to oil?
Wasn't there cocoa, coal, oil palm, rubber, timber and cashew from the south as well?

Some have even argued that southern exports pulled in more revenue than northern ones (very plausible) hence the amalgamation.

So, where do you get the information that groundnut proceeds exclusively funded the development of oilfields?

Ewooo, abi this man can’t read ni?  Where did I mention that groundnut proceeds exclusively funded the said development? All I was pointing out to you is that, you may be required to pay for past benefits you enjoyed as a condition. Now, there is always the option of using weapons as Dede1 suggested, to have your way

jason123: Ndu_chucks, you fail to understand southerners. THE MAIN PROBLEM IS NOT NORTHERNERS AS A WHOLE BUT THE FAILURE OF THE PROGRESSIVE YOUTHS TO KICK YOUR CORRUPT LEADERS OUT. Also, northerners do not vote for christains. Why? and finally, the failure to embrace education and progress. If the north can handle these issues, I can tell you that you guys would be very loved in Nigeria but failure to solve them would INEVITABLY lead to the break up of the country.

and about the oil issue,

Although I do not know much about the law surrounding it, you guys CANNOT possibly lay claim to it (even with international laws). Why? its because the idea is nonsensical. MO

Stay focused, olodo, abi you are drinking evening wine ni?  How did you reach the conclusion that I fail to understand southerners from my post, which you quoted? Let me state it again, the off shore oil belong to Nigeria, ALL of Nigeria. The on shore oil is a different matter. That was the point I was making. Now if you want to know my opinion about corrupt leaders, I’ll tell you – They hail from every part of Nigeria, North, East, West, and South. These corrupt leaders are responsible with enablement from the rest of you, for the demise of the nation. Name me one corrupt northerner, and I’ll name you 2 from every other region. Name one Northern governor who stole while in office and I’ll name you 2 from the south.

onlytruth: I would admit that I don't know yet about international laws concerning such situation as Nigeria's offshore resources (I would have to research that), but common sense tells me that you cannot be in the north ( a separate country by then) free from all the environmental impacts of oil exploration (flaring, shore pollution in times of spillage, etc) and still smile to the bank when revenues accrue. Something doesn't seem right in the picture.

Regarding the bolded above, there is no such a thing as the territorial waters of coastal areas, there is only territorial waters of countries. That is why ALL off shore oil belongs to ALL of Nigeria. Hence you cannot give away what is not yours as a region prior to becoming a nation who owns those territorial waters and the resources therein.

The remainder of your post is incoherent, please restate your point.

The only thing I will say about pollution is that, that is one of the biggest failures and disgrace of your leaders. All Nigerians suffer from the impact of the environmental disasters of the area. Shell and others should be held squarely responsible. The sad truth is that, none of the governors in that region who have received over $100 in the past few years are yet to spend 1% of the received funds to clean up the area. Sad.

@PhysicsMHD, what are you going on about? I was responding to the topic of this thread. What do you disagree with in my post?

Onlytruth:
BTW what do you think about paying you guys off?
I wouldn't pay you a dime if my community owns the oil.  

IMHO if the south stays together somehow, nobody is paying you a dime and you must go! lmao.  

The idea of paying the North, East, West, or South off is ridiculous on several levels. First off, 90% of the crude oil exported in the past 10 years or so have come from offshore activities.  Accoording to international laws, that oil belongs to Nigeria and not to any coastal region. I don’t believe you’d find anyone living in the ocean or who can claim that his ancestors lived there(abi dem get mammy water clan for ND ni ) Clearly, you cannot give away what is not yours.


As far as the on shore oil fields are concerned, appropriate derivations are in place and the states where those fields are located are appropriately compensated. Your reps can decide to adjust the numbers as they see fit, that’s what democracy is all about.   Now in order to pay the North off with some of the proceeds of the on shore oil fields, you’d also have to repay the funds provided from ground nut exports, most of which was used to pay your salaries, build some of your infrastructure, and actually develop some of the very oil fields in question.  I dey go come.

onlytruth: BTW where is ndu_chucks?    

I would like to debate him on this.    

Okwute Palestinians piafuka gi (blank blank). Bring it on.   So far I can say that most of you are delusional.

GEJ, OBJ, and Nwodo will rig Akala in, mark my words. There is nothing democratic about the PDP primaries and that is why many prominnent PDP members are looking elsewhere. Mind you, this party and its members have no ideological glue, access to the loot is all that matters. This is the case with just about any political party in Nigeria, sadly.

Most of the critics of Iwu's daughter are misinformed. None of the accusations against her has been proven to date.

I understand that she was a fulltime adjunct professor in the USA while serving he NYSC. It is very conceivable that she can do both activities at the same time, particularly with online courses, videoconferencing technology, and other tools. Give the lady a break and wait until more details become available. We should all be innocent until proven guilty.

careytommy: u know the case against atiku r more damning than the allegations against tinubu which would likely lack merit in any court.
Atiku's recent outburst that Nigeria would be ungovernable if GEJ runs for the presidency should attract a charge no less than treason.not to mention his complicity and indictment, even as far as the us of a, of multiple financial misappropriation.
FYI, i'm no ACN member nor fan of inn or whatever he stands for.

Who cares whether the case against Atiku is more damning than the one against Tinubu? If EFCC can prove that any of them is guilty of a crime, let them arrest and prosecute. That Atiku is allegedly guilty of any crime has absolutely no bearing on whether Tinubu has a case to answer. Why is this fact difficult for you to understand?

To be honest with you, e better make person dey take brain think instead of yansh o.

Katsumoto: It is a divisive thread in that the intention is to introduce religion in to political thinking in the South West when it is a known fact that Yorubas are bound by culture rather than religion.

You are quite wrong in your guess as to my intentions. How did you know what my intentions were, when I did not inform you that it is to introduce religion into political thinking in the South West? Haba, you are giving me more credit than I deserve.

Katsumoto: Is it compulsory for Sharia courts to be in the South-West? What is the point of this debate?

I don’t believe it is compulsory for Sharia courts to be in the South-West. And by the way, this is not a debate, I simply hope to be informed. Hope, that’s OK with you.

P.S. Are you a Muslim? If not, you may be ignorant of the answers to some of the questions I asked. If not, you may try to answer them.

@ikeyman00 & tomdon, I hereby repeat my request as stated in the first post: "No religious or ethnic bashing please - lets make this a nice academic exercise."

If you have nothing meaningful to contribute, then move on to another thread. You people apparently do not have the ability to divorce your bigotry from your posts. I'm quite sure from your standpoint, the abokis caused your brain damage and dementia as well. Intellectual Midgets banza kawai!

careytommy:
I agree Tinubu should be arrested, but first the likes of Atiku should be hounded up

Why should the arrest of one criminal be contingent upon the arrest of another? If EFCC has enough evidence to prosecute any of them, let the arrest happen already and may the chips fall where they may.

jason123:
They are moderates, in the sense that, they do not veiw their christian brothers as infidels etc. They do not impose religion on their children (for example, I was thought the quran by my father but when i decided to be a christian, he did not stop me). They do not kill eachother in the name of justice. . . etc. I can go on and on.

@ bolded
This is the problem yoruba muslims have with northern muslim. The brutality of sharia is unfamilar to the yorubas and they do not practice it but instead, norther muslim say they are fake muslims and that is the problem.
Islam is a religion of peace but coupled with Sharia law, it becomes something else . I personally view most northern moslems as hypocrites! why? If a thief is caught in a sharia state, his hand is cut off isn't it? but have you or any northern muslim not stolen before? have you or any northern muslim not had sex before marriage? But because you are not caught, you remain "holy". Well, GOD sees all and thats the difference. Yoruba muslims would not take justice into their hands.

I am waiting for your reply. You might even clarify somethings to me.

First let me commend you for your brutal honestly, one cannot call you a hypocrite. I must say that I’m a bit surprised that you chose to use Sharia as practiced by certain extremists as a benchmark, rather than siting the practice as implemented in the 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s. You of all people, as a Moslem, should know that the extremists represent the minority who should not be allowed to hijack the religion.

You probably should have stated that the Yoruba Muslims have a problem with those extremists in the North and elsewhere, instead of stating that the Yoruba Muslims have a problem with Northern Muslims. That generalization of yours is quite unfair. Sharia courts have been in place since the 60’s in the North and more hands have been cut off in the past 15 years than the prior 40 years (in a lame attempt to make life difficult for OBJ, I might add). In fact, no hands were cut off anywhere in the North between 1950 and 1990. Were the Northern Muslims hypocrites during that period as well?

As for the bit about Yoruba Muslims not taking the law into their hands, please go to any SW market and invite a couple of people to shout ole or thief, and see if you’ll be lynched by only non Muslims. Your generalizations are a bit excessive. Care to restate your position?

@jason123, please clarify you position that the reason why sharia courts do not exist in the SW (or why only a handful exists) is because SW muslims are moderates. You seem to be implying that the Muslims of other areas that have Sharia courts are extremists? If so, that is completely wrong. I told you that Sharia courts have existed all over the North since at least the 60s and there were  no issues until certain elements tried to politicise religion in the area.  I hope you are not suggesting that SW muslims are fake muslims.  I await you second try on the reasons why Sharia courts are not present in the SW. Thanks.

@koruji, your contributions are appreciated, but expect to be vigorously challenged    I was a Cowboy fan, back in the days. The Eagles don't have a very good team, they are lucky that the cowboys are currently rebuilding their team and the fact that the dog lover is their quarterback.

Sharia courts have been in existence in Northern Nigeria for as long as I can remember. There were certainly Sharia courts in the area as early as the 60's.  Christians and Moslems lived side by side without religious fracases until recently when certain elements tried to politicise religion in the area.

Moslem vs Christian conflicts have been quite minimal in the South West. Why is this so?  There may be some lessons to be learnt from this observation.  By the way, do we have Sharia courts anywhere in the South West? If not, would the Moslems from the area, care to explain why this is OK by them?


@Koruji, please take a chill pill and relax. Religion does not seem to be a devisive issue in the South West as many posters have posited. By the way, are you going to create an upheaval from the comfort of your living room watching the Philadelphia Eagles coast to the super bowl? I doubt if you are in the trenches in Nigeria. Enjoy your weekend.

Thanks.

@koruji, how is the thread devisive? Did you read the original post at all or you are an onijogbon by nature? Controversial issues do not have to be wept under the carpet and not discussed because certain people may be emotionally unstable.

I ask again, just as in the first post: No religious or ethnic bashing please - lets make this a nice academic exercise.

Thanks for the contributions guys.  Mimiko's moslem middlename Rahman, was the reason why I thought he is a moslem, I wonder why he did not drop his middle name just as he dropped Ifa from his last.

If I am wrong about Fayemi then my bad - I read somewhere, where he was urging Muslims to emulate Ibrahim, Mohammed e.t.c  Its hard to find out simple facts about our elected officials. Sigh.

The South Western states including Ekiti, Ondo, Osun, Oyo, Ogun, and Lagos state have been relatively free from conflicts and violence based on religion. Recently however, we have seen violence including murder because of politics and electioneering.

It is noteworthy to me that the only PDP governors in the area, Gbenga Daniels and Aloa Akala are Christians while the rest, Kayode Fayemi ACN, Olusegun Rahman Mimiko Labor Party, Rauf Aregbesola ACN, and Babatunde Raji Fashola ACN are all moslems.

It is also very likely that after the 2011 elections, there may be only 1 or less Christian Governor in all of Southwest. My understanding is that the Moslem/Xtian ratio in the area is 50:50. Could it be that South West christians are being outclassed by their moslem counterparts? Could I also be erroneously trying to see if there is a relationship when there is none?

I invite comments from residents of the area. No religious or ethnic bashing please - lets make this a nice academic exercise.

Brilliant President    

@9ijaMan, don't let your biases becloud your objectivity. Let the investigations lead to the culprits, be they members of MEND or religious extremists. We have to deal with the culprits promptly, we should rule nothing out until investigations are complete.


@naijaking1, It is quite sad to read what some of these fools are writing. We invited the Americans to help us and the fools are crusifying them for accepting the invitation. Some of them remind me of extremists who believe that anything America touches is evil. We need all the help we can get from any country in order to nip this problem in the bud NOW!!

I think one of the most significant developments stated in the article in the first post of this thread is the following:

Homeland Security Department officials and Pentagon sources added that based on the FBI findings, President Barack Obama has approved a request by Nigeria for a permanent FBI counter-terrorism unit in the country.

Africom base in PH may follow. Hmmmmmmm.

[quote author=X-factoria link=topic=580856.msg7481785#msg7481785 date=1294413258]Guys,

Let us drop anti-American sentiments and face the real facts!

The FBI report says the bombs are all from the same source.

In October last year, there were intelligence reports linking MEND (Okah & Co) to Al Qaeda. They were said to be involved in arms deal. Perhaps, MEND is sourcing weapons from Al Qaeda or vice versa. Okah is not a freedom fighter but a confirmed arms dealer.

http://www.pointblanknews.com/News/os4086.html

I can only infer that the relationship between Al Qaeda and MEND is that of sourcing for arms from each other. This MEND in question is definitely Okah's faction and not those genuinely fighting for freedom. Okah could be helping them to import arms into the country. It is not impossible. Okah will do anything for money. He wouldn't even care about religion as long as money is involved.

Then to say that the US have ulterior motives in trying to assist the FG anti terrorism initiatives could be mischievous. Save for oil, Nigeria can rot in hell as far as the Americans are concerned. So if this is not directly about oil, then we should see the sincerity in their offer of assistance. Maybe Nigeria's unity or continued existence is paramount to them because of the oil, but at least, we stand a lot to gain in their support for the FG to ensure security of our own lives and properties in our country. Lets not be overly sentimental on issues that demand objectivity.

Our security personnels are helpless and the bombings continue. If it takes the US to come and assist (whether genuinely or otherwise) for our lives to be saved from these criminals, I am all for it.[/quote]X-factoria, I agree with you that this is not the time to be sentimental. There are other links between some factors of MEND and Al Qaeda which should not be ignored. Okah, Togo, and many other MEND operatives are nothing but common criminals and murderers who must be dealt with very urgently.

Here is a an interesting post by Rhino.5dm :

Another twist. . . . . Of all was last month Alhaji Mujahid Asari Dokubo  was a host to a radio station in portharcourt. I.e live programme, but to my dismay this guy was openly defending the late leader of boko haram sects and saying that he is a freind to them and were just mis understood by the public. He went ahead to say that he supports everything they do . . . . . . Quote him

"they are not boko haram, they are freedom fighters. How can you have a Phd and called your self boko haram. . . . ."  

" i know many of them in the group, they are engineers, doctors, accountants, they are fighting a just cause. . . . ."

he continues by warning and insulting Gov. amaechi and said that Abeyi sekibo is going to be the next governor. . . . . . . I will post the some sorts of thrilling account later cos am using my mobile now. . . .THE THREATS OF AL-QAEDAH IS REAL!!!

Any Terrorist training camp disguised as an Islamic school anywhere in Nigeria must be identified and mowed down with immediate effect. Al Qaeda has succeeded in killing both Christians and Moslems from various tribes. They must be stopped now. GEJ, please act now!

@Onlytruth, I'm sorry to say that an organization that doesn't have any problem with kidnapping and killing innocent people, detonated car bombs in Warri which killed more innocent people, is nothing but a terrorist organization. You can call them resource control agitators if you wish, but in my books, they are murderers and common criminals who should be dealt with as such.

We can debate the credibility of MEND in another thread if you wish. Note that Soyinka himself has dissociated himself from the organization after finding out what they are all about.