@Goshen
I have closely monitored and observered the discuss between the both of you and frankly l particularly don't see any reason why Joagbaje still make out time and space to continue to respond to your questions and posts, take this from me Joe this guy is not worth talking to because l can't understand why he seem to be shying away from the simple question of a man on the basis of undergoing a medical test is required to tender some sperm samples which obviously can't possibly be done without some application of the use of masturbation (except there are other means to achieve that)the point is in such instance is masturbation a sin?
Please answer yes or no.

logicboy:
2) The youth mocked a human being for being bald. The death penalty does not apply. Did you see that in anywhere in the 10 commandments or the other laws in Exodus?

Sure the youth mocked a "human being" no doubt but not just any human being except you are suggesting that the prophet in question was not a prophet of God and a representative of God so if they mock the sent one who in actual fact is being mocked?

logicboy:
3) The youth were not in a theocracy, they were in a monarchy. Ahab was king.

Well what mattered was the system the prophet functioned in and by the way almost every "nation" then had practiced some form of theocracy regardless of the "deity"

logicboy:
4) As for the bold part, was it not Peter that denied Jesus? Is that not denying God/a prophet of God? Hypocrisy?

So whats your point sorry you didn't communicate

logicboy:
5) Also for the bold part, just because something is in the bible, it doesnt mean that it is true. If I insult a prophet, the prophet is not God, I am insulting the prophet. The pope is not God and neither is pastor Chris who are men like me. Should I be senteced to death for insulting pastor Chris or the pope?

Please are you planning to "INSULT" the pope? You see my friend its not a question of the sentence of a "death penalty" but trust me its perhaps one of decency and the novelty of being noble or what do you think, would a noble man "INSULT" the Pope?

logicboy:


1) The youth were not violent

2) The youth mocked a human being for being bald. The death penalty does not apply. Did you see that in anywhere in the 10 commandments or the other laws in Exodus?

3) The youth were not in a theocracy, they were in a monarchy. Ahab was king.

4) As for the bold part, was it not Peter that denied Jesus? Is that not denying God/a prophet of God? Hypocrisy?

5) Also for the bold part, just because something is in the bible, it doesnt mean that it is true. If I insult a prophet, the prophet is not God, I am insulting the prophet. The pope is not God and neither is pastor Chris who are men like me. Should I be senteced to death for insulting pastor Chris or the pope?

With no malicious intent whatsoever to discredit your stance but permit me to say that you don't seem to be reckoning with my perspective, l am not advocating that they were "violent" can't remember ever even mentioning that perhaps you might need to review my most recent post again. They were IRREVERENT AND PROFANE and it is also important that you understand that they were in a "THEOCRATIC GOVERNING SYSTEM" so the logic of HUMANE MORAL RATIONALITY does not appeal to the justice of the time. God is Merciful and Kind otherwise if we were in such a dispensation who can tell those who would still be alive where it was JUSTIFICATION BY WORKS AND SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS but thank God for His Grace.

logicboy:


How do you define murder? "Murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human,"

If I unleashed a pack of bears to kill your family for mocking me, is that not murder?



How do you define hooligans? "A violent young troublemaker, typically one of a gang"

Were the youths violent? The bible only said that they mocked his bald head.

Providing a definition for murder or understanding it is by no degree a hard nut to crack for me but my point is that the bible didn't call it "MURDER" rather on the contrary, from the context we can deduce the following truths:

1) These young men in question were untrained
2) They were profane and irreverent especially in a theocracy of that nature in which almost absolute regard and reverential honour is given to a Prophet as "THE VOICE OF GOD" and an intermediary conjunction bridging the people to God and constituting an extension of God to the people so what happened to these "foolish" young men should be seen AS A DIRECT CONSEQUENCE OF THEIR ACTIONS RATHER THAN A FUNCTION OF THE PROPHET'S ACTION. This is because there is the possibility that even if the prophet had not said anything those kids wouldn't perhaps escaped their act of disregard and profaned irreverence for the "VOICE OF GOD".
It is in the same light that we view the demise of Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5 with the Apostle Peter as "THE VOICE OF GOD" in this context

Acts 5:1-11 (King James Version)
"But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart?
thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband
And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things"

You see like the Apostle Peter pointed out in a profound statement ". . . why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost. . .Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord?. . ." The point is whatever that is done to the Prophet is done to "the one who sent or appointed him"

logicboy:

Sharaap.


This is how you brainwash your fellow christians into allowing prophets to commit atrocities.


As for prophet Elijah and the bears. You clealy know that it is wrong and that it is murder but as a christian apologist, you spin it and say that it is an "exhortation"


Where in the bible does it say that the youths were hooligans? Where? You are a fake

Calm down this is suppose to be a discussion not a thug fight. Perhaps the use of the word "Hooligans" was an insolvent analogous proximate and an aberration from the thought that was intended to be communicated because the bible didn't really call them Hooligans but the bible didn't also qualify the action of the prophet as an act of murder like you tried to portray. So where did you get your verdict from.

Kenneth4u205: I've always been odd since childhood.stays away from other kid.plays and eat alone.speaks less than 500 words in a day.but the confusing part of it is that i dont even eat meat.i can feel all the pain,anger,etc that the animal experienced at the point of slaughter.can feel those negative emotions inside the meat.is this sensitivity to the pain of others?.or is it demonic?.is there any verse in the bible that support vegetarianism?.is this a type of fasting or what?.am confused

Like someone rightly pointed out you could as well extend that measure of sympathize to the vegetables and fruits you eat after all they are as much living as their animal colleague. l have again and again looked into this issue of eating meat or not eating meat you know one being a vegetarian the bible is clear about it personally am not that much of a meat person, God design a self sustaining system called earth with man at the top of the food chain we must recognize that fact and God cannot be wrong not by any degree.
4And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
Genesis 1:25-28
And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Acts 10:7-17
9About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something likehttp://www.nairaland.com/newpost?topic=921157 a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13 Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat." 14 "Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean." 15 The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean." 16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

Eating or not eating meat is based on choice and must not be based on any form of religious beliefs or as a matter of spiritual injunction with severe consequences attached for non-compliance, then at this point we know something is wrong regardless of what justifiable explanations that may be given to make it appeal to the emotional, spiritual, social or otherwise sense of man.

1 Timothy 41-5
"BUT THE [Holy] Spirit distinctly and expressly declares that in latter times some will turn away from the faith, giving attention to deluding and seducing spirits and doctrines that demons teach,
Through the hypocrisy and pretensions of liars whose consciences are seared (cauterized),
Who forbid people to marry and [teach them] to abstain from [certain kinds of] foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and have [an increasingly clear] knowledge of the truth.
For everything God has created is good, and nothing is to be thrown away or refused if it is received with thanksgiving.
For it is hallowed and consecrated by the Word of God and by prayer"

It is important to note the sections in bold for emphasis

Joel.:
When an animal is killed you send the blood back to God by covering it with dust, in the proper way. God have or need account of it, that why you must not drink or eat animals blood.

Is that exactly the case. . . "for God to have an account of it"? That really sounds absurd! Please is there any where in scripture that support this notion?

The underlinning characteristic that's indicative with witch-craft is simply MANIPULATION. It is possible for a christian to somewhat delve into certain degrees of witch craft even without know it, why rebellion is likened to witchcraft is because most often than not people who are rebellious and disgruntled in a church don't like to campaign alone they like poison the hearts of others in an attempt to win support and the only way winning substantial votes is through MANIPULATION hence the aposple Paul says ". . . Beware of dogs"

At what point can a believe or a chriistian be termed rebellous?
Because almosst immediately, the statement of the prophet samuel comes to mind ". . . For rebellion is the sin of witch-craft"

Please what do you call a man or individual who was once a sincerely true believer perhaps maybe a pastor or a leader is a church but to the amazement and supprise of all he announces that he is no more a believer in Jesus Christ but the point is we are confident without and possible doubt that he or she was born again and the hand of God was with him.
Please what category does he falls in

It is important that we understand that knowledge is progressive thus the bible says that we know in part for instance a couple of years ago we certain churches who condemned the use of "the Jazz drum" or drum set arguing that it was worldly most other churhes also went further to condemn the use of the television set but you see years have come and gone and we have seen knowledge metamophos all to the glory of God

Ephesians 1:17-23
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: Ephesians 1:18
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

John 10:10
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have[ it] more abundantly.
I remember Jesus Christ for the purpose for which He came and the verse of scripture in John 10:10 remarkably provide an expose to that effect stating that He came ". . . to give live and to it in full and abundant measure. But now the question is what is this life that He came to give?
Yes l remember Jesus Christ for this.

What a larger than life experience, you know to see Jesus Christ is something one can't really conjour the most appropriate lexeme or adjective to describe and explain in the language of any people. l have experiences that for many year l still find it a big challenge to communicate appropriately to others.

how come you didn't bring a tattoo maybe Jesus or the crucifix

does that affect the new creation then women should not be piercing their ears and wearing ear rings?

1Co 11:24-25
"And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me"

My attention is particularly drawn to the amazing fact that Jesus Christ Himself specifically instituted the practice of sharing in the breaking of bread and cup of the Holy communion with an interestingly striking instruction as to why we should participate in the table of the communion. Jesus said do this I.e participate in the breaking of bread and the cup as a pragmatic show of REMEMBRANCE for Him Jesus wow meaning that even Jesus sought to be remembered you because he was leaving and like the concern is for every man at the threshold of the transition from the reality to the other which is will they remember me when am gone then if yes what then will they remember me for?
Everyday wants to be remembered and one of the things that bring joy and smile to Christ Jesus is to see the peoples of the nations of the world remember him in praise and true worship little wonder the bible says ". . . if l be lifted up l will draw all men to myself" John 12:32.
Today as a Christian when you think of Christ Jesus WHAT DO YOU REMEMBER HIM FOR COULD YOU SHARE IT WITH THE WHOLE WORLD AS WE CELEBRATE EASTER THIS YEAR.
HAPPY EASTER IN ADVANCE. . . GOD BLESS YOU ALL

I think that they are mire than just two reasons
Romans 1:19-20
"Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed[ it] unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,[ even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse"
The point is if we would only open our eyes and see just two reasons would be a monumental understatement.

Wow am looking forward to it because am having a very special EASTER CONFERENCE AT CHURCH

Its interesting how that someone who doesn't believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ is probing and making such a bold declaration l find it hularious. Why don't u speak for ur own camp of believe

@Crossman
Why are you avoiding this point:
"Be that as it may is it wrong to follow a man who follows Christ Jesus as a demonstrative
expression of response to leadership after all haven't read these passages of the scriptures
1Corinthians 11:1
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
1 Corinthians 4:16 Therefore I urge you to imitate me.
Philippians 3:17 Join with others in following my example, brothers, and take note of those
who live according to the pattern we gave you.
These references must be estranged to you or maybe you thinking they were extracted from
the qua ran?
The issue of following a man is not one of replacement and substitution of Christ' place in our
lives rather it's one of submission to leadership"
My question to you is simple are you suggesting that the apostle Paul was a false prophet leading people away from attending to Jesus as their focus but to follow him being a man?

@mabel
Prescription? Hmmmmmmmmm didn't think of that but now that you have mentioned l think its more appropriate

Sure that makes Some sense but firstly who is the government and secondly, how long do we have to wait for this "government". thanks for your comments

Am aware of the provisions of the Nigerian constitution though not in detail as it concerns murder on the grounds of self defence now to what extent can a Christian go in defence of his right to live especially with a senseless group of mad individuals who call themselves Boko Haram on the lose and on rampage attacking Churches and Christians. At what point do we repond with the provisions of the law and in accordance with Bible teachings defend ourselves even if that meaning killing another person.

Suicide bombers attack Gov Jang’s church • Police
recover explosives from Christians in Bauchi
FEBRUARY 27, 2012 BY JOHN ALECHENU, IHUOMA
CHIEDOZIE AND JUDE ONWUAMANAM
TWO suicide bombers, suspected to be members of the
terrorist Islamic sect, Boko Haram, on Sunday morning
attacked a church where Plateau State Governor Jonah Jang
worships in Jos, killing two worshippers.
The two bombers also died. Four others died in the angry
protest by Jos youths that followed the incident. Thirty-eight
other persons reportedly sustained injuries from the
bombing.
The sect in a statement by its spokesman, Abu Qaqa, has
claimed responsibility for the attack.
The attack came even as the police claimed they defused
two bombs planted at their barracks in Gombe.
Jang was said to have escaped the attack because he was
not at the first service that started at 7.00am. The governor
usually attends the second service, conducted in Hausa
language, at 11.00am.
The attacked Church of Christ in Nigeria is an indigenous
church attended by notable citizens of the state, including
former governors Solomon Lar and Joshua Dariye.
The dead bombers were said to have rammed their vehicle,
a Volkswagen Bora car, into the gates of the church and had
attempted to drive all the way into the church auditorium.
Their car, however, got caught at a point amid motorcycles
parked within the premises. Eyewitnesses said the car
exploded immediately it got stuck, killing the bombers even
as they tried to escape from the vehicle.
The killers’ car was said to have followed the patrol van of
the Special Task Force onto the church and attempted
forcing its way through as the van entered the premises.
Another account however said the bombers were dressed in
army uniforms and that they were allowed into the church
premises by a soldier at the gate who apparently mistook
them for his colleagues.
When news reached the Jos youths that the bombers were
dressed in army uniform, they took to the streets and threw
stones at soldiers.
While security agents cordoned off the area where the
church is located, the angry youths reportedly mounted a
road block where they attacked and killed four other people.
President Goodluck Jonathan, in his reaction to the Jos
incident on Sunday, said those seeking to divide the country
through terrorism would not succeed.
The President who spoke through his spokesman, Reuben
Abati, commiserated with the victims of the incident and
assured them that security agents would go after the
perpetrators.
The statement by Abati says, “It is with great sadness that
President Goodluck Jonathan received the news of the
suicide bombing, today, at the Headquarters of the Church
of Christ in Nigeria (COCIN) in Jos, Plateau state, and the
mindless acts of reprisal that followed the incident.
“Mr. President conveys his sympathies and condolences to
the victims of the odious acts.Those who seek to divide us
by fear and terror will not succeed.
“The indiscriminate bombing of Christians and Muslims is a
threat to all peace-loving Nigerians.
“Mr. President will continue to stand firm to ensure the
safety and security of all Nigerians while ensuring that the
relevant institutions move against those who disregard the
sanctity of life in the pursuit of sectarian ambitions.”
It adds, “Government is gradually and firmly bringing justice
to those behind these attacks and exposing their identities
and dismantling their terror infrastructure.
“President Jonathan appeals to all residents of Plateau State
to remain calm and be law abiding.
“As we mourn with today’s victims, let it be known that
efforts are being redoubled to win the war against terror.”
The National Association of Nigerian Students described the
Jos bombing as “one blast too many.”
The students in a statement by National President of NANS
say, “We want to categorically use this medium to declare
these acts of bombing of innocent citizens as a cowardly act
by the terrorist groups and their sponsors.
“It is so unfortunate that this group and their sponsors are
hell bent on truncating our nascent democracy and the
peaceful coexistence of our people.
“We hereby want to once again call on the Federal
government to consider our repeated call for the
convocation of a National stakeholder’s conference on
National security in order to challenge the growing threat of
terrorism against our country.
“The responsibility of our protection as Nigerians can no
longer be left in the hands of the government alone as we
hereby call on “Nigerians to be more vigilant and give
necessary support to the security agencies.”
Meanwhile, the police in Bauchi State on Sunday said they
averted a clash between two rival factions of the COCIN in
Toro/Tilden Fulani area of the state.
The Bauchi State police commissioner, Ikechukwu Aduba,
said in a statement that an improvised explosive device was
recovered from a member of one of the feuding factions.
Aduba’s statement reads, “Our intelligence source indicates
that there have been a lingering rivalry and acrimony
between two factions of the COCIN church adherents within
Toro/Tilden Fulani axis of Bauchi State, and this said rivalry
came to a head today Sunday, February 26, 2012 at about
0805hrs, when one of the factions stormed COCIN church,
Unguwan Ring, Tilden Fulani and demanded for documents
belonging to the Church, and which said demand led to a
row.
“Acting on information, a crack team of detectives from
Bauchi State Police Command were quickly dispatched to
the church and this timely intervention prevented the
occurrence of some unwholesome violence in Bauchi State
today, as the detectives rounded-up the rivalry factions cum
suspects, and upon on-the-spot search conducted
recovered an Improvised Explosive Device from one of the
suspects, thus thwarting the evil machination of the culprits.
“Our bomb experts, having successfully disarmed the
recovered IED, has further confirmed that it is a complete
bomb, manually operated, and that this is the second time
we are seeing this kind of IED as it is clearly similar to those
used in the foiled Ganjuwa invasion; very potent and
dangerous!
“So far eight suspects have been arrested in connection with
this case and are currently helping the Police to tidy-up
investigations after which they will be made to face the full
wraths of the law.”
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@Crossman
least l forget that was a nice graphics but your choice Jesus could be better because one doesn't look Handsome at all.
If you say that such and such a person is as you suppose a false prophet ok but my problem with you is you are grossly incoherent in your offensive what is or are your aguements based on doctrines and teachings

Mr. Crossman its obvious that you have not or perhaps l should say that you have refused to take recommendations any bit because if you have you really won't be sounding this stupid still.

Recently l have been hearing somuch of Judaism and Zionism both equally claiming to be the true representation or identity of the Jewish people but then again l thought aren't both a duplication of one and the same thing until l recently began a research on the issue but at this point of my research am not too sure if am convince that they are actually one and the same thing. JUDAISM AND ZIONISM ARE THEY EXCLUSIVELY DIFFERENT?

From historical records, here’s how the Christian apostles and other disciples died. Each person is listed in alphabetical order with the method of execution, plus the date of their death and place, if known.






Andrew, brother of Peter, was crucified in Edessa.

Bartholomew was beaten and then crucified in India.

James the Great, older brother of John, was beheaded in 44 A.D. in Judea.

James the Less was beaten, stoned, and then clubbed to death at age 94 in Jerusalem.

Jude, brother of James, was crucified in 72 A.D. in Edessa.

Luke was hanged on an olive tree in Greece.

Mark was dragged to death in Alexandria.

Matthew was killed with a weapon that had a blade and spike in 60 A.D. in Nadabah.

Matthias was stoned and then beheaded in Jerusalem.

Paul was beheaded with a sword in Rome.

Peter was crucified head down by request as unworthy to die the same as Christ, in Rome.

Philip was scourged, imprisoned, and then crucified in 54 A.D. in Heliopolis, Phrygia.

Simon was crucified in 74 A.D. in Britain.

Stephen was stoned to death in 34 A.D. in Jerusalem.

Thomas was thrust through with a spear in India.


The Church and Christianity from time in memmorial been a victim of countless hostilities aside, from those mentioned above which is a reflections of the severity of the nature of persecutions the early church had to go through, history will not forget the inhumanity and despecably grusome acts of horror and grieve perpetuated by a man who stands out in this order in ancient Roman the Emperior Nero (54-68AD) who according to history made midnight lamps out of Christians who refused to denounce their confession thus burning them alive. The picture is no difference today with real time news feeds of Christians killed, maimed,inprisoned and incascirated, burned and butched from Sudan to Iran, from Northern Nigeria to Easthern Russia, from India to China, from North Korea to Malaysia etc.
I have sat down to reason and to contemplate these anormaly and wickedness searching to possibly come up with perhaps a justifiable reason for this and frankly l think l did yes l found a "justified" reason for all these persecutions which is what l would simply refer to as "THE CLAIM". Almost everybody in the world would agree that Christians are infact one of the most(if not the most) peace loving people in the world yet why all these hostilities for God sake with all Extremist Islamic group are doing the world over what is the world doing we are negotiating with them.
Christianity is so hated and persecuted simply because of HER CLAIMS it is only in Christinity certain claims that are larger than life are made such or Which are:
@ That Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to God and besides Him there is no other
@ That Jesus Christ is the Truth and the Life
@ That all Powers both in Heaven and on earth belongs to Jesus Christ
@ That the Name of Jesus Christ can heal and deliver
@ That Salvation from sin and death is in no other by in Jesus Christ
These are some of the CLAIMS that marks Christianity as a target for persecution because to say that Jesus is the ONLY WAY by implication renders all other thoughts or claims especially those that say "oh well there are many ways to God" null and void. Well the conclution of the whole matter is simple Christianity and her CLAIMS cannot be be stopped simply because those CLAIMS have CREDENCE AND ARE POTENT WITH UNDESPUTED EVIDENCES.

^^^^^
For God sake what exactly is your point because l wonder how many persons are patient enough to read all that