Capital Punishment, Religiousity And Secularism - Religion - Nairaland
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| Capital Punishment, Religiousity And Secularism by tpaine: 10:19am On Mar 09, 2008 |
Capital punishment - state sanctioned killing of criminals, is still widely practiced in many countries across the global. Of the major Western liberal democracies, the USA is the only country that routinely execute some criminal for capital crimes. In fact, not all states in the American Union today sanction the death penalty, many having suspended and abrogated the law on capital punishment. The irony is that many of the countries that routinely execute criminals have a very high religiosity index; countries like Nigeria, USA, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan etc. Of the non-Abrahamic religious countries China is the one with the most (if not the highest) capital punishment per year. Nearly all the secular liberal democracies of Western Europe have abolished the capital punishment or have a statute which has fallen in disuse. At an anecdoctal level, I find nearly all my acquintances of religious leanings are in favour of the capital punishment. On the other hand, secular humanist are largely in opposition to this vile practice. How can it be that the religious are overwhelmingly in favour of this practice given their claimed avowance for the sanctity of human life? Do the respective religious text offer a view on this practice? References http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_capital_punishment_by_nation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_States ===================================================================================================== Some of my other threads The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006 Danger! 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| Re: Capital Punishment, Religiousity And Secularism by Nobody: 10:29am On Mar 09, 2008 |
tpaine: Second question -> How is it that China, a secular country that believes in the use of reason alone (much like therationa and tpaine) has the HIGHEST rate of capital punishment worldwide  |
| Re: Capital Punishment, Religiousity And Secularism by tpaine: 10:34am On Mar 09, 2008 |
imhotep: I was re-reading my post and looking for a better word to describe China, but in the end settled for non-Abrahamic. China is a largely "religious" country in the same sense as USA is. They do not have a state sanctioned religion but the people are overwhelming Buddhist. To say the China employs reason is to misuse the word reason. |
| Re: Capital Punishment, Religiousity And Secularism by Nobody: 10:36am On Mar 09, 2008 |
tpaine:@tpaine China is an atheistic, communist state. Are you aware the tax evasion is punished with the death penalty in China So much for the use of reason!!  |
| Re: Capital Punishment, Religiousity And Secularism by tpaine: 10:54am On Mar 09, 2008 |
imhotep: Why do we have the dead penalty in "Christian" countries like the USA? Have they not got respect for human life? Very few countries in the world have constitions directly based on their "religious philosophy". USA is largely populated by christians but is not a Christian polity. However, you can argue that Saudi is an Islamic polity. In many other countries, the dividing lines are blurred (Venezuela, philipines etc). China has a populated of about 14% atheist but a state government that is non-religious. In other words, they do not based their beliefs on the classical theistic dogmas. But that does not mean that the have GOOD PHILOSOPHIES. They are totalitarian dogmas, which are not too dissimilar from religious dogma. Can you show be a country that has championed the philosophies of Thomas Paine, David Hume, Spinoza, Epicurus, Epictetus, Voltaire, Diderot, as political philosophies, then I will show you an atheist state. Basically, the fact that one does not believe in god(s) not does mean thatone has got good philosophies. I really hope you get this point. |
| Re: Capital Punishment, Religiousity And Secularism by Nobody: 10:57am On Mar 09, 2008 |
tpaine: @tpaine If they are so reasonable (and have excluded blind religion from the running of the Chinese state), why is tax evasion a capital offence? |
| Re: Capital Punishment, Religiousity And Secularism by tpaine: 11:07am On Mar 09, 2008 |
imhotep: You just don't get it, do you. Did I say they were "reasonable"? The crime for which the capital punishment is applied is not the issue here. The issue is the principle of have capital punishment. Are you suggesting that tax evasion is less of a crime than other crimes? Think about it. Tax evasion leads to less government money which leads to less investment in hospitals which leads to more privation and death in the long run. This is not an argument for the death penalty, but is an argument for deciding how to link punishment to crimes. What do Christians think about the capital punishment? Don't railroad the issues, as is your wont. |
| Re: Capital Punishment, Religiousity And Secularism by 4Play(m): 11:19am On Mar 09, 2008 |
tpaine: Atheists and this familiar goobledegook.Anytime the atrocities of China or the Soviet Union is pointed out,they start to repeat the same canard about these atheist regimes being actually believe it or not-essentially religious! Here you have people who don't believe in any deity or supernatural existence,who reject theism,being described in a way that seeks to deny the undeniable-that they are atheists.As they say,success has many parents,failure is an orphan. The reasoning is often based on the suggestion that these atheist states are not really atheist because they haven't lived up to certain principles.One can use this same warped logic that atheists deploy to claim that there has never been a "Christian nation" because no nation has throughout history ever fully lived up to Christian principles |
| Re: Capital Punishment, Religiousity And Secularism by tpaine: 11:33am On Mar 09, 2008 |
4 Play: I agree with you on one point. That you could argue that there has never been a "Christian Nations", and you could be right. But there is a vast difference between Christianity and atheism. Christainity not only makes claims about the existence of a diety it also makes moral claims, amongst others. Atheism makes only one claim - about the non-existence of deities. It makes no claims about metaphysics, morality, etc, etc. Thus it is possible to be atheistic and be a bad individual (eg Stalin) and be good individual (Andrew carnegie, Thomas Paine etc). What does Jesus say in the bible? Let us examine the moral teachings and see whether Christian are living by these standard; Turn the other check and not resist evil I have not come to make peace Leave you family to follow me Do not make plans for the morrow Hell No condemnation of slavery Love you neighbour These are Christ's moral teachings. Which of the above do christians follow or reject? |
| Re: Capital Punishment, Religiousity And Secularism by 4Play(m): 11:46am On Mar 09, 2008 |
Atheism makes only one claim - about the non-existence of deities. It makes no claims about metaphysics, morality, etc, etc. Thus it is possible to be atheistic and be a bad individual (eg Stalin) and be good individual (Andrew carnegie, Thomas Paine etc). At least,this puts to rest the canard about atheist states that don't "champion the philosophies of Thomas Paine, David Hume, Spinoza, Epicurus, Epictetus, Voltaire, Diderot, as political philosophies", not really being atheists.The key thing is that those states assert the non-existence of deities. These are Christ's moral teachings. Which of the above do christians follow or reject?This version of "Christ's moral teachings" is a figment of your imagination.Typical straw man argument. |
| Re: Capital Punishment, Religiousity And Secularism by tpaine: 12:31pm On Mar 09, 2008 |
4 Play: Can you point to where I have built straw men. These teachings are in your bible. Are you saying that I am mis-representing them? OK, Can you supply the correct understandings? |
| Re: Capital Punishment, Religiousity And Secularism by 4Play(m): 1:31pm On Mar 10, 2008 |
Unless you have suddenly been struck by a comprehension paralysis,you need nobody to tell you that Jesus never taught do not resist evil or no condemnation of slavery.Nor do you need to be a genius to realise that the rest were not to be given a literal meaning. For instance,no condemnation of slavery is supposed to be a "teaching." You are effectively saying that failure to mention something is effectively the same as asserting that it shouldn't be mentioned.In any case,the one real assertion,love your neighbor as your self,effectively covers the issue. |
| Re: Capital Punishment, Religiousity And Secularism by tpaine: 2:21pm On Mar 10, 2008 |
4 Play: Why do you think Jesus would never have taught the "do not resist evil" doctrine? Is it becauseit would have been an evil thing to teach such a doctrine, OR is it because he just did not teach it? His tacit condoning of slavery is what is called in law, "the law or negligence". For goodness sake, this man was the son of God (or was he also God). He would have lived in an environment where at least 30% of people were slave, yet he is not documented as having said anything about this evil act. Why ? Is it because slavery is condoned in the OT and bearing in mind Matt 5: 17, he did not come to abolish the law but to fulfil it? Why was he more concerned about performing miracles when the majority of people lived in bondage, disease and starvation, or iked out a miserable existence as serfs. Why did he not cure or eradicate leprosy but cured one/more isolated instances of the condition. What lasting change did he leave the world other that sow the seeds of bigotry? Did he not know that what he was doing was going to cause this much chaos and bloodshed in his name? If he did not know, then he was no God. |
| Re: Capital Punishment, Religiousity And Secularism by ayobase(m): 2:52pm On Mar 10, 2008 |
u will surely shut up when u r tired. i dont even have the time to read most of ur posts. they are all junk!!!! |
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