₦airaland Forum

SIRcumalot:
Did you read that part where he said he has played everywhere aside from the goal for pool ? Even you yourself listed three position for steve G 10/CM/DM depend on formation those all play centrally
Pull up the wikipedia page of any of his mates and their position is well defined.

I genuinely don't understand what point you are trying to make here.

Nobody argued that Gerrard did not play in other positions. Infact in I think my first response to Dayo on this issue I stated how versatile Gerrard was. His debut for Liverpool was at Left Back.

This was the uninformed statement you made which I challenged stating that Gerrard played most of his career in central areas

SIRcumalot:
Gerrard was moved around a lot because he wasn't good enough to hold down one position.

The article you posted clearly stated that Gerrard had at the time played 65% of his games for Liverpool in the centre of the park which clearly negates the absurd assertion that Gerrard could not hold down one position. If you are playing 65% of 400 games in central midfield, then how can anyone say that you did not hold down a place?

I think the reason for your gaffe lies in my argument that Gerrard pushing Scholes wide is a testament to the former's superiority. What you seemed to have missed was that argument did not exist in isolation, but was also combined with comparative analysis of their output and individual Honours.

incase you forgot...Scholes started off as a support striker for Manyoo and continued to drop deeper until he played the deep lying playmaker role at his retirement. Between Support Striker and DLP he also played as a left winger for Man United.

If we are to use your logic, we will consign Scholes to further ignominy. Iniesta is another central midfielder that has played for extended periods on the wing...He too must be useless.

raumdeuter:
Richest means he could buy anyone he wanted and he had no superiors questioning his decisions

For Man Utd to be underdogs in those 3 finals shows how poor he was compared to his opponents Since his team at the time cost more than his opponents

How can you coach for 20+ yrs coach a top team have unlimited finances yet make only 7 semi finals in 20+ yrs

Which team cost more than which opponents?

raumdeuter:
Man Utd under fergie 26yrs

2 trophies, 2 runner up 3 semi final knockouts

That means Ferguson made semi finals and beyond just 7 times in 20yrs coaching the richest team in the world with unrestricted authority

Richest doesn't equal Strongest.

Infact if you consider that bar Moscow 2008, Manyoo were the underdogs in the other 3 finals, you would realise how often Ferguson was punching above his weight in Europe. That he won 2 of 4 UCL finals is a testament to his ability

raumdeuter:
When Gerrard was forced away from CM his team came back from a 3-0 deficit Gerrard dug them into and won the CL

WHen Scholes was forced away from CM and Gerrard was played. What did that team win? Kindly remind me

Would you like an extra straw for that army of straw men?

If being shifted wide is an example of Gerrard's uselessness, then Scholes must be more useless as Gerrard shifted him wide!

That's your logic...and I actually agree with it viz a viz Scholes

raumdeuter:
Maybe not poor but average

Consider that Man Utd was one of the richest clubs in Europe. Most of the time countries had 1 or 2 participants In Europe how many tier 1 and 2 football nation say 7. So Man Utd is one of 14 clubs who would compete every season

If I am given a team who has the riches of Man Utd and the type of free hand Fergie has. In 20yrs I would win more than 4 CL

I think I made a post a couple of months back showing how the decline of English football in Europe is really just the decline of Manyoo in Europe.

United were regularly in the quarters or Semis and made the finals under Ferguson 3 times I think.

Nothing average about that. At all.

raumdeuter:
What was Carraghers submission except for the fact that gerrard was useless in the middle. In the first half Liverpool midfield was open and Kaka was taking a piss all over Gerrard in midfield.

It was until the coach took him out and brought in Hamman moving Gerrard away from the middle that Liverpool could do anything.

gerrard is known to be a careless and error prone central midfielder who cost his team with irrational decision making in the middle

What is the trajectory? making a CM to move to wings and later Support striker

You are absolutely right...

Gerrard forced Scholes to the wing for England and ultimately into retirement.

By your own Logic Gerrard >> Scholes

SIRcumalot:
None taken
I don smell trap when u feigned ignorance
This na link where the man himself is complaining.
http://www.lfchistory.net/Articles/Article/2381

This one from the telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/2702239/Steven-Gerrard-Ive-paid-price-for-versatility.html

If you read the article that you posted, you would have read where it stated that Gerrard had played 65% of all his games for Liverpool in central midfield...and that was in 2008

If you consider that he spent most of his last 4-5 seasons in the middle of the park for Liverpool...your own article is arguing against you

raumdeuter:
What did Gerrard achieve or win playing in the CM or DM?

In the CL final he was taken away from the CM position

WHen Benitez got Mascherano and Alonso he moved Gerrard to the wing and later to support striker because Stevie was a waste in central midfield

This is an incredibly dumb submission. Go and read Carragher's account of what led to the tactical shuffles in that UCL final...

Xabi and Machserano are obviously better holding midfielders than Steven which is not surprising because Gerrard is not a holding midfielder.

Nevertheless Gerrard played most of his career in central areas. 10/CM/DM. And you should know that this is the typical trajectory for most central midfielders

raumdeuter:
Ferguson is a good coach but he still has his superiors in coaching

Winning 2 CL titles in 26yrs with the same team is poor

I remember when Coogar made the exact same argument about Moyes.

Coogar's argument that period was that Moyes failure to beat any of the top 4 after 11 attempts was the epitome of failure...

The post garnered several likes...

I personally do not think that Ferguson was poor in Europe though...Manyoo was a continental force that competed every year

Odunharry:
Wetin we no go see??
Gerrard beta than Scholes?
The most decorated English footballer in history?
oh lawd

His decorations are TEAM decorations. Afterall career wastemen like John Oshea, Nicky Butt, Wes Brown share many of Scholes so called decorations.

What are his individual achievements? Compare them to Gerrard's

SIRcumalot:
Gerrard was moved around a lot because he wasn't good enough to hold down one position.

No offence to you but this is an asinine comment. And I say that with the greatest respect.

Especially considering that he played the majority of his career in central areas. 10/CM/DM

SIRcumalot:
Lampard is better than Scholes I hate to admit it but na the simple truth be that but stevie G isn't fit to shine scholes boot.
Stevie G is just like present day rooney,the club is constantly trying to shoe horn him into their formation every body lap this shit up and call it versatility.

I dont understand this statement

Aude:
So because something is legalized it makes it morally correct? Never been a prostitute and never will be. My parents provided for me, went to great schools and currently in a great job. I have never had the need to sell my body. It is a temple. I can 100% claim here that I am more aware of what's going on in the world. I will advise you to read about abuse and maybe it will improve your myopic views.

There's nothing morally wrong in having sex with a 17 year old though...What's wrong about it?

SailorXY:
Mikel even had greater potentials, just that he chose to sacrifice all that for Roman denari!

Did he?

I actually honestly dont think so....

dopeJemi:
Wish y'all had legends that we could also piss on, too bad

Touche

Oya lets leave this before it degenerates

SailorXY:
What Lampard stunts?
Pop shots & hope for deflected-swerves?

Whether you like it or yes, the Brits are about kick-&-follow. Finesse hardly come naturally to their football so they opt to capitalize on their "strength" literarily.
Wilshere is a midfielder who could have honed his skills better outside England but he chose to change his style to jam-body - the English way.

A midfielder like Busquets wouldn't see a starting shirt for the 3-Elephants!

A midfielder like Busquets is really just the same as a midfielder like Mikel

chrisley024:
only two guys on the thread can still stand for him so where do the likes you claimed come from? Stop trying to exaggerate it.

Wrong thread lad. All we want to do here is piss on the legacy of your legends. Next up is giggs the local champion.

How come all Giggs individual awards are EPL related? Why did he not get any love on the continent?

SailorXY:
Lampard is your typical English midfielder!
Good presence, tackling & ariel ability {basics}
Send a long pass forward, arrive as the ball is ball being battled for & retained by the Duncan Ferguson-style forwards, pop long range & hope for deflections to add swerve to the shot!

What was Scholes game?

Abi you don forget that Scholes was the guy pulling Lampard stunts in the late 90s until the original came to claim his crown?

SailorXY:
Ogbeni the talk is praising players that define an era, not someone clapping for you cuz you showed impeccable form over a period.

Go sleep abeg.

Scholes defined which era?

Talk about the top 2 central midfielders in the EPL in the mid to late nineties when Scholes was in his pomp and the answer is Viera and Roy Keane

Early to mid noughties It is Gerrard and Lampard

Whic era did Scholes Define?

chrisley024:
Gerrard is better than Lampard

Dont even bite there. Not only does Lampard out-score and out assist Gerrard.

He has more relevant individual awards too.

Even his national award by the Queen is a higher grade than Gerrard. Lampard is an Officer of the British Empire(OBE). Steven is merely a member(MBE)

Scholes is not even a member of the empire.

dopeJemi:
Go and read what xavi, zidane, Edgar davids, laurent blanc, ferguson, marcelo lippi and co said about Scholes

Why didn't they vote for him at Fifpro though

chrisley024:
okay. Most important game of the year.

Dayo used the same logic for Boateng against Terry and you all disagreed

We all disagreed because we could point to Terry's superior individual honours list...and the fact that FIFA official website did not give the MOTM award to Alago.

Go back and read the argument again. This was your fellow Manyoo fan o:

Dadehmola:
Individual honors..

John Terry

FIFA worldcup TOTT 2006

FIFPRO world eleven 2005, 2006,2007,2009

UEFA club football best defender 2005,2008,2009

UEFA TOTY 2005,2007,2008,2009

........................................................

Alago Boateng

Fritz -Walter-medal U19 bronze medal 2009 (which competition be this Abeg ?? )

Dayomumu, can you see that the Boateng/terry comparison is a very fôôlish one??

chrisley024:
one match out of a tournament?

Do you know what it takes to inspire your team to a win after being 3-0 down at half-time.

Moreso in a UCL final?

That was the biggest game of the year, and Gerrard showed why he was the ultimate big game player.

That is just one example in a long list of many games where Gerrard took absolute charge of a game.

Can you even think of one game where Scholes had a similar effect?

It's the reason why Gerrard has more individual awards than Scholes

chrisley024:
very funny how some claim Gerrard single handedly dragged liverpool to the champions league. A myth that was made up by the english media.

Luis Garcia scored THREE more goals in liverpools CL campaign than Gerrard but for some reason he didn't get the title of "carrying" liverpool to the CL.

Dudek saved three penalties in the final but for some reason he didn't get the title of "carrying liverpool" to the CL.
Hamman and Alonso all had better games than Mr Gerrard but again they didn't get this title infact Hamman made the difference. Truth is Gerrard has only ever once dragged liverpool to anything special and that was in the FA Cup final against Westham. They have always had a few class players in the mix of Mascherano, Alonso, Hamman, Dudek etc so please STOP giving him such an undeserved title of "carrying them"

Very hilarious you brought Fabregas that goes missing in matches into this.

They are talking about that night in Istanbul.

I wonder if you watched that match. It wasn't English Media that give him the man of the match though...

SailorXY:
Gerrard was an asset & liability in equal measure to Liverpool.
His gaffes almost balances out his positive contribution hence no great of the game eulogize his skill-set.
Even when Scholes' strength gave in, he rarely contributed negatively to United's cause.
The English hardly bring through technical players, so there are no surprises kick-&-follows like Lampard & Gerrard are favored. A striker like Emile Heskey will bench van Nistelrooy in the English National team.

When you imagine the time it took for England's manager & FA to recognize the qualities of a Micheal Carrick, then *in Morinho's voice* only in England.

Lampard is Kick and Follow?

Don't even go there....

We are still managing to compare Scholes and Gerrard

Lampard is Scholes Daddy

Dhellake:
IMO, Nigger should remain on the bench for two more games

Just one season and he is already seeing himself like some overlord, it's Bournemouth, even Kenedy can start up front

Whisper it quietly but I even prefer Hazard upfront.

Though Costa is likely to score his obligatory goal against bottom feeder teams of he starts. I'm already tired of the old man

chrisley024:
Scholes had technical ability, especially in controlling the tempo of the game, up there with Xavi and Pirlo while Gerrard is more of a post to post midfielder. I'm sure Xavi wouldn't be highly rated if not the success of Barca/Spain tiki-taka style of play. I personally rate these midfielders very high.

Gerrard still played in the middle for England and we saw how it fared.

It can still be argued Gerrard was a big fish in small pond.

It will remain debatable depending on what you prefer from a midfielder or the type of midfielder you use as the yardstick.

It could be debatable but every debate has a winner.

At England, Scholes was pushed out wide to accommodate Gerrard in the middle. That's one example of an industry insider picking Gerrard over Scholes.

Scholes himself retired under the age of 30 after playing several games on the wing. He did not back himself to ever regain his position in the centre due to how good Lampard and Gerrard were at the time, even though no success would eventually come of that pairing

Gerrard was voted into the PFA team of the year 8 times. Scholes only once. PFA team of the year votes are only available to Premier League Players. That's the second example of Scholes local colleagues picking Gerrard over him.

Gerrard has been voted into the FIFPro world XI 3 times. Scholes has never smelt it. The FIFPro voting is only open to professional footballers. That's the 3rd example of Scholes international colleagues picking Gerrard over him. It's alright for them Xavi and co to drop some nice quotes about him, but did they back their quotes with their votes?

Controlling possession is a nice trait to have as a footballer and midfielder, but possession is not the be all and end all of football, otherwise Carrick would be a Balon D'or contestant.

When it comes down to it, the numbers favour Gerrard. The professionals who played alongside and against both players favour Gerrard. The coach who managed both players favoured Gerrard. Even Scholes Manager at club level tried to buy Gerrard!

In my opinion Yakubu Aiyegbeni was the greatest striker in his prime. Doesn't make him better than De Lima.

chrisley024:
my question is to him not professional footballers. There must be reasons he prefers Gerrard or is it based on votes?

You've been given the key statistics.

Goals and assists Gerrard outperformed Scholes.

Even at National level, the manager chose to keep Gerrard in the middle and play Scholes out of position in the flank

Now dig this Gerrard played with dross for most of his career. Scholes played in the most dominant team and alongside some the best players to kick a ball in England...

I'm too sure that if Gerrard played in that Manyoo team, he will be Sir Gerrard by now

chrisley024:
na by?

That's a question you might want to pose to the professional footballers that voted Gerrard into multiple PFA and FIFpro XIs...unlike Scholes...

Btw Ibime you were right in a way...

In previous posts, I said Gerrard was the 3rd best in the world. I should have said Europe. I was wrong

However, the point still stands, Gerrard was the Balon D'or runner up in 2005. Fall down and die