₦airaland Forum

@toyosi20 please be straight with me by sincerely and 100% truthfully telling me whether or not you are in a relationship or not,  (cus its not normal dat my heart is pounding )

(you can send your response to "No2Atheism@gmail.com" so as to protect the privacy of your answer)

yicob:
Focus. . . .focus guy. Must you woo every beauty you see?
@ Toy, this too would pass !

@yicob,  I think you are confusing me with someone else, please crosscheck my nairaland profile.

, Now that is better,

(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?action=profile;u=167178)

fyneguy:
@No2Atheism

I'm sorry to say this: You are just another Pharisee online

So because Messiah did not refer to branches with a Central church in the verse you quoted, it's  heretic to have branches in a church?

  what has the issue of branches or no branches got to do with anything!  Stupid religiousity! why do some supposed christians behave like Pharisees for God's sake!

oh no! do u guys really understand what christianity means at all?!

Mehn you gat to be kidding!



You should say that to a slave!  I'm a seed of Abraham! and I'm aware of the convenant God made with him. FYI, I'm a King (Rev 1v 4-6) If you know what that means

Besides, the scripture you quoted has nothing to do with this. It's talking about the works of the apostles!

@fyneguy

1. You are calling me a Pharisee because I decided to focus the questions and answers session strictly on what the bible says concerning tithing, watering, setting up of churches, definition of a church, seed planting, prosperity gospel, and not on what the popular believe is.

2. I have done my best to exhort and water other bible believers by plainly and simply trying to tackle the questions one by one using the bible, yet you go ahead to make jest and accuse me of misquoting scriptures, despite that the scriptures i quoted are plain for everyone to see and crosscheck themselves.

I am sorry but i did not join this discussion/thread in other for you to make fun of something very serious,

I give up, you would not hear nothing more from me on this thread again, I have done my own part, goodbye.

[quote author=tonye-t link=topic=262230.msg3743487#msg3743487 date=1239981496]first of all, i aint no member of CEC, but i love and respect his ministry and dat's for real

now to the questions:
[/quote]1. Okay good to see that you love and respect His ministry.
2. Loving and respecting His ministry already makes you a member of His congregation as far as spiritual rules are concerned, you actually don't have to be a paper member of CEC for you to actually be a follower of CEC. This is because what happens in the Heart is as important if not more important than what happens physically.


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Answers:
1. Watering entails a conscious effort to build or follow up with what has been put to grow, it could be your faith, miracle, success (Phil.2:12)
2. By putting an effort, it could be aided or self (1.tim.4:15)
3. you of course, or someone else if you believe they can be of help (I.cor.3:6)

Philippians 2:12
[RNKJV] Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.


1. You are[i] partly correct[/i], and I appreciate and commend you for that. However you have mixed in a little bit of false along with the[b] truth[/b] when you group together "faith", "miracles" and "success" under the act/process of watering.

2. Faith is a product/consequence of the watering, faith itself is not watering.

Romans 10:17
[RNKJV] So then faith cometh by hearing, and[b] hearing by the word[/b] of יהוה.



3. Where does the former verse (Philippians 2:12) talk about miracles and success. Please note that, miracles and success are not part of the watering, instead miracles and success are consequences of faith, which itself is a consequence of watering.
I hope you are able to see below that miracle and success are part of the increase that יהוה gives (I Corinthians 3:6) as a result of faith and not as a result of watering.

4. Please see for your own eyes below, the additional things to the earlier verses in terms of watering;


I Corinthians 3:6
[RNKJV] I have planted, Apollos watered; but יהוה gave the increase.

I Timothy 4:13
[RNKJV] Till I come, give attendance to reading, to[b] exhortation[/b], to doctrine.


5. Watering means the act of supplying nutrient for something to grow. This nutrient comes in terms of the study of, understanding of, acting on the word/scriptures. This can occur either under an inspired Bible Teacher (e.g. Paul, Peter, John, Apollos) or via the direct help of the Spirit of יהוה in the understanding of all truths.
Hence this nutrient (i.e. the word) is then what helps a baby believer to grow into an adult believer. Below is an example of what watering looks like i.e in terms of milk and meat;


I Corinthians 3:2-6
[RNKJV] I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
[RNKJV] For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
[RNKJV] For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?  
[RNKJV] Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as יהוה gave to every man?
[RNKJV] I have planted, Apollos watered; but יהוה gave the increase.



6. Based on the above points and bible verses, I hope you are able to see what is meant by watering and who does the watering,


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4. everything in life my brother is a seed, it could be money, help, love, service, and so forth (or do you need a scripture for this one again?)

1. Thank you, you are correct.

2.  No need to quote scripture.

3. Nevertheless, can you kindly tell me why there is an emphasis on money as a seed to be sowed for wealth, success, micracles and health in the Prosperity Gospel Churches of nowadays. And also can you tell me why tithing in most of today's churches, focuses so much on money as a tithe despite that tithing is a work under the law and that not one reference in the New Covenant calls believers to tithe (whether money or otherwise). To make it worse, attempts at obeying the law of tithing implies the person has willingly put himself back under the Law, out from under Grace.

The simple answer is that the love of money is what is causing so called Pastors to cherry pick laws of the Old Covenant and then try to apply it under the New Covenant, e.g. Tithing.


I Timothy 6:10

[RNKJV] For the[b] love of money[/b] is[b] the root of all evil[/b]: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.




4. New Covenant only calls believers to freely give willingly, without cohesion, to the poor/needy/widows, with a joyful heart and without adherance to a fixed percentage. The new covenant never told believers to tithe, (Tithing was of the Old Covenant).

5.  A believer getting rich is a blessing under the new covenant that is solely based on the whims and caprices of the Will of יהוה  (Cor 3:6). Hence why are people trying to use the law of tithing to try to arm twist  יהוה  for there own benefits.



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1. very correct, but how did you accept Jesus Christ if you did not believe on the messanger? answer this

1. I did not believe on the messenger, instead I believed the message, hence why it was easy to separate the Scriptures from the messenger once the messenger starts to become Heretic according to Bible standards.

2. My salvation is dependent on no man, hence the messenger is irrelevant compared to the message itself, in the big scheme of things.


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2. Ever heard of the "gift of discernment" before, search the book of 1ST Corinthians

1. Yes I have heard of the gift of discernment.

2. I also have the understanding that whatever is discerned by this so called gift of discernment "must always comform" to the Bible.

3. If anyone claims to use the so called gift of discernment to preach a message that does not conform to the Bible, then that person is simply an Heretic and that person's message is simply Heresy, end of story.


Galatians 1:9
[RNKJV] As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other evangel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.  



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1. In a true church there is orderliness and decency, everyone does not talk at the same time, there is time for everything(1.Cor.14:40)

1.Cor.14:40
[RNKJV] Let all things be done decently and in order.


1. I never said that everyone should be talking at the same time, instead what my question asked was that:
   
   
   -  What did @tubonimi mean by "allowed".
   -  Did @tubonimi mean to say spiritual questions and answers to spiritual questions are subject to beaucracy.
   -  What if the person asking the questions is not satisfied with the kind of answers given at the Cell level.
   -  Does it not make sense to ask questions before joining a cell, instead of joining a cell before asking questions.
   -  Did @tubonimi mean that questions are only allowed to be asked at Cell level.



2. Talking about orderliness when someone decides to get an answer to a spiritual question is an excuse and opportunity for propagating heresy.

3. Asking a question that deals with Spiritual issues and demanding an answer is not an act of dis-orderliness.

4. Orderliness essentially means when someone takes one ordered step after another, i.e. question then answer then Bible confirmation then action.

5. Always doing things you are being told without both first asking questions and checking the Bible for confirmation of the answers, is a symptom of brainwashing.

6. Even Paul was happy that Bereans crosschecked the scriptures to confirm whether what they were hearing was heresy or not.


Acts 17:10
[RNKJV] And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
Acts 17:11
[RNKJV] These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.



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2. Yes, call it secular names, but do you talk harshly to your father in the house or you talk back at him, HONOUR my friend is one key to GREATNESS and SUCCESS, let the little one's learn to drink MILK b4 they start eating BONES, i can give you scriptures if you like

3. The HolyGhost will teach us in the way we should go (John.14:26)

4. too much knowledge will all abound to sorrows, "i too sabi is a disease" life in itself is full of questions that can not all be answered, like why do you suck your mammas breast when you where born and not go straight into solid foods? i ask you

1. Yes you are correct,


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5. There is time for everything, "time to talk, and time to keep silent" (Eccl.3:7b)

1. Yes there is time to speak the Truth in love based only on scriptures and not based on the reputation of a pastor.


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6. Ask RCCG, ask WINNERS, ask Deeper Life, ask . . . . .[/color]

1. I don't need to ask them, cause the bible already tells me the definition of a church. And this definition of a church, tells me that a cell is also a church.


Hebrews 10:25
[RNKJV] Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.


2. A Cell itself is a gathering of the bethren, hence going by Bible alone, "a cell itself is a church" just as part of the Watering comes from exhorting one another (something that Paul and Apollos were doing),

3. A church should not have a branch, Hence why the Messiah Himself refered to the "different" churches in different cities. Kindly notice that the Messiah did not refer to those churches as branches of any Central Church in Jerusalem, instead the Messiah referred to those churches as separate churches by their location. Having church branches is part of the beaucratic heresies that are occuring as a result of the fact that the doctrine of most churches today have a little root in the apostate Church known as the Catholic Church.


Revelation of John 1:4
[RNKJV] John to the seven assemblies which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

Revelation of John 1:11
[RNKJV] Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven assemblies [/b]which are in Asia; unto [b]Ephesus, and unto[b] Smyrna[/b], and unto[b] Pergamos[/b], and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Hello tubonimi, am still waiting for answers to the following questions and by the way, try and consider this as an opportunity for you to minister to me via your answers to my questions. Please make the answers as straightforward as my questions (i don't always like reading epistles)

Here goes the questions again

5. No! If your giving (Seed) is not speaking (Growing) it means you aint watering it.

1. Please what do you mean by watering.
2. How do you do watering.
3. Who is supposed to do the watering.
4. What is the seed that is required to be sowed for it to grow under watering.

6. No! It is real, if it wasnt, I wouldnt be part of it, Trust me.

1. No I don't trust you, cus the heart of man is desperately wicked.
2. That you or anyone else is a part of it does not make it true or false, It being a show or it not being a show does not depend on your presence or absence there.

7. Yes! This is why you need to join a cell, that is where you are allowed to ask questions.

1. What do you mean by "allowed".
2. Do you mean to say spiritual questions and answers to spiritual questions are subject to beaucracy.
3. What if the person asking the questions is not satisfied with the kind of answers given at the Cell level.
4. Do it not make sense to ask questions before joining a cell, instead of joining a cell before asking questions.
5. Do you mean questions are only allowed to be asked at Cell level.
6. Is a Cell a church or the branch of a church.

@toyin, 6'5, , now that is too much. wetin!!!
@toyin, sweet, naaaaaaaaaa, am giving it to moonstone instead  

@moonstone , sweetdreams

[quote author=*Toyinrayo link=topic=262178.msg3740757#msg3740757 date=1239944391]why would I call you that?
I'm also 5'6. . . .I can't diss myself o
because of Z  [/quote]where you come get the 6ft 4inches you said before, so @moonstone was telling the truth,

which means the compliments i gave you earlier  should have been giving to @moonstone ,

OgidiBoy:
Another swamp thing what is going on tonight ,

Moonstone:
You wish.
LMAO! Toyin, you're mad!   Humpalumpa oshi wo?   :DPlease educate us. What is it that they say?

Platinum, he has his hat there with him. There's nothing worse than a cowboy

#2 - from Charlie and the Choc Factory. Those little round orange things. Toyin is mad

[quote author=*Toyinrayo link=topic=262178.msg3740743#msg3740743 date=1239944080]Ask me again  


Lol, they're those tiny things from willy wonka AND the CHOCOLATE FACTORY  [/quote]haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Toyin, but why,

[quote author=*Toyinrayo link=topic=262178.msg3740735#msg3740735 date=1239943978] What are you trying to say?

So just because I told 'em am 6'0 (which I am) and asking those sexy tall brothers to pick a number is picking up guys? oga ooooooooooooo

You're 5'5, go siddon jor. Humpalumpa   [/quote]which one is Humpalumpa

[quote author=*Toyinrayo link=topic=262178.msg3740713#msg3740713 date=1239943304]Leave The Swamp Alone jor  

https://www.gatorheaven.com/catalog/2339_large.jpg


@N2A
What's wrong with wearing heels to the bedroom? [/quote]Nothing is wrong, infact I would vote for it "almost everytime", except when the future Mrs is angry


what i was saying is that you ladies should be as self confident in high heels as flats (e.g. michelle obama) cus your guys are going to be seeing you more in flats than high heels , hence the need to build more confidence in your natural bodies rather than the accessories to your bodies.

mandiiee:
pretty tall!! ( 4 a chik )  ,  5"9.5 feet

which one is 5"9.5

what's with the 0.5 at the end

Moonstone:
It was crazy this year. I got almost 350 beads. My neck was hurting me ehn! I tire. I get tired of New Orleans all the time but now, I go to Bourbon almost every other weekend and dance till I start hurting. It's really cool.

I party in Heels a lot but not the extra high ones. Now i'm into sandals. Flat flat sandals. I'm trying to get comfy with my height these days. Accepting my dwarfism

1. 5ft8 is not dwarf, so why callest thou a dwarf,

2. Some men like them portable , other men like them tall (like me), hence all this dwarf dwarf thing is uncalled for,

3. Girl you really need to continue to get comfortable in your own skin, cus that's how your man is going to see you for the rest of your life together, "unless you want to be wearing high heels into the bedroom"

[quote author=*Toyinrayo link=topic=262178.msg3740679#msg3740679 date=1239942533] sharrap.

Was so embarrassing. . . .

Now, I know how to really rock it [/quote]Heya pele, ,

Well at least you can now boast of experience as a result of baptism of fire ,

[quote author=*Toyinrayo link=topic=262178.msg3740668#msg3740668 date=1239942281]Oga o, Plat, how are we uppity?

I'd say it's the entertainment state, apart from Hollywood.

Too much going around
My kind of heels.

I hate the bulky ones. . . [/quote]let me guess, u have falling like 3-4 times on them,

pencil sole high heels are hopelessly sexy , but dangerous to use   , (unless the wearer does not mind having a broken ankle eventually)

Moonstone:
#2, is everything okay? LOL!

1. Yep everything is "Madoff free"

2. Heya pele, wish i could bail you out with a few more inches,

[quote author=*Toyinrayo link=topic=262178.msg3740636#msg3740636 date=1239941739]Ahh you kidding me? I [i]live [/i]on heels   [/quote], pencil end or flat end,

Moonstone:
Ah - sorry, I forgot. But Louisiana is more of the south with less influence than your place. When you come here, you'll get what I'm saying. But sorry. . . Platinumk is one of the very few real southerners on NL (including Madam Toyin )

If I were 6'1" I would be a whole lot more excited. I hate wearing heels so it would have been perfect.

[quote author=*Toyinrayo link=topic=262178.msg3740618#msg3740618 date=1239941478]so what am I?
A fake one?
It is cute.
Hmm, maybe I should stop eating beans to grow taller.[/quote]

Moonstone:
That's so cute. . . Oh you're in LA too?! Finally. a real southerner on NL.  

[quote author=*Toyinrayo link=topic=262178.msg3740563#msg3740563 date=1239939690]I meant 6'0 - 4 inches [/quote], i guess the 4 inches comes from the high heels,

dayokanu:
Why are you midgets not telling your heights? N2A, Toyin why u dey dodge the question

, @dayokanu, u still never ask Toyosi20, until you do so , am sorry u aint getting anything out of me, NOT EVEN SPONGEBOB CAN HELP U IN THIS CASE.
, moreover i enjoy making you to continue to think about my real indentity, hence giving you my height might give away a little hint.

[quote author=*Toyinrayo link=topic=262178.msg3740542#msg3740542 date=1239938751]You of all ppl should know now.

6'0 l'omo [/quote], thats good, a reasonably tall nigerian babe (am impressed),

dayokanu:
Why are you midgets not telling your heights? N2A, Toyin why u dey dodge the question

, one answer for you , MULINGA

dayokanu:
That draw was made for 3 EPl teams to reach the semis. They paired them with the weakest teams left.

I already commented on this immediately the draw was made. Man Utd playing Porto, Arsenal playing Villareal and Barcelona playing Bayern. Thats a design for 3 EPL semi finalists

1. Barcelona game against Bayern, showed that even Everton would spank Bayern on a good day.

2. Bayern should be thankful they did not play an EPL team like chelsea or liverpool, otherwise it would have been worse, like:

- Chelsea 5 - Bayern 0 (with broken legs)
- Liverpool 5 - Bayern 0 (with broken legs and punished coach)

3. Check out the chelsea and liverpool game,


4. Ronaldo would be mad to go to Real Madrid, cus Barcelona and Real Madrid are overated just like the La Liga because most of the other teams in La Liga are shit , hence why a shit team like Real Madrid could be in such league position.

dayokanu:
Who no know you. The bespectacled intending space scientist. Have you forgotten Seun Osewa was your close buddy in 1999 session?

Dont derail topic. Have u added to your 4ft?

Seun Osewa, close buddy, 1999 session, intending space scientist, bespectacled, lol, nice try, make another guess,


Toyosi20 also dodged the question, tell toyosi20 to also answer the question first, uncle,

dayokanu:
Who fit beat Chemical when I am by the pitch dictating play As the coach?

No team ever defeated the Chemical Engineering team I coached the worst was a draw!!!!

BTW How tall are you?

lol, look at this man,

you wan take my height try guess the person i am abi, no chance for you,

Let the mystery continue,

@dayokanu, at least I know of "Mulinga",

@dayokanu, your "peter crouchiness" still no stop the beating Chemical get from we hand

TOYOSI20:
Anywayz hope u gud??

I dey alright , probably more kampe than Uncle Sege

Well since am not gay, it is my pleasure to let you know that am done chewing on (https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?action=profile;u=167178),

So go ahead and KINDLY change it,

DISCLAIMER: PLEASE KINDLY STOP READING NOW CUS SOME POINTS ARE GOING TO MAKE YOU THINK THIS POST IS HERETIC
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II Timothy 2:15
[RNKJV] Study to shew thyself approved unto יהוה, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

John 5:39
[RNKJV] Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.


First and foremost, I understand that some readers of this post would be angry, pissed, dumbfounded and even consider this thread heretic (don't worry you are not alone in trying to spot and openly oppose heresy), I am just pleading for people to be patient enough to read before forming an opinion, see the bible verses quoted, observe the points raised, use the weblinks provided as a start and then offer their understanding of the scriptures based on the question that the post is trying to tackle.
At the end of the day, proper and truthful bible study is required for the personal growth of each and everyone of us, hence a proper and polite  contribution, rebutal, response and addition to the post of this thread would be welcome.

Please note this about me,

[b]
- I believe in the birth, death and ressurection of the Messiah.
- I believe the Messiah has already come once and His coming back again during the Second coming.
- I believe salvation is in no other man except the only begotten Son of the Father, i.e the Messiah.
- I believe that salvation of every man is only by Grace through faith in the Messiah.
- I believe the Messiah is the Word.
- I don't believe in Easter or Christmas because they are merely pagan rituals disguised as biblical remembrance days.
- I am not a team player,  I endeavour to tell the Truth at all times even if it is against my own interest.
- I believe Heaven and Earth (and everything in them) was created in 6 Literal days (i.e 24hour-day by our own units of day measurement).
- I want to be both able and ready to defend my faith with truthfully blunt bible based answers when faced with tough questions about my faith.
- I want to know via scriptures (like Bereans) if the name "Jesus Christ" is the real name of the Messiah or not, cus I want my hope of salvation to be in the right person.
- I believe that scriptural truth searching is important to determine whether or not a True Bible Believer should continue to call himself/herself by the title""Christian" or not.
[/b]



Matthew 11:12
[RNKJV] And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.



As far as this topic is concerned, I am seriously willing to learn from any points and objections raised based solely on the Scriptures, I am not interested in secular or religious dogmas or rhetoric, because making it on this spiritual journey is not childsplay, so let's be serious and try to offer constructive comments.




Isaiah 1:18
[RNKJV] Come now, and let us reason together, saith יהוה: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Acts 17:10
[RNKJV] And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.

Acts 17:11
[RNKJV] These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Acts 4:12
[RNKJV] Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

John 5:43
[RNKJV] I am come in my Fathers name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.




Can you please kindly go through the raised questions/suggestions/verses below and above and give your opinions about them. Nothwithstanding, the reason I am asking is because every True believer is expected to study to show him or herself approved via a non-religious, non-hypocrytical and non-dogmatic study of the bible.
The main question raised on this thread, is bound to be controversial to say the least, nevertheless its a neccessary question considering that its answer inherently affects the faith of billions of people on the planet. The question is so serious that its implication makes me to sometimes question my own sanity. You might be wondering that what exactly is it that I am talking about, well unfortunately I cannot mention the question directly, nevertheless my hope is that people would know/understand the question after going through this post.
My quest for an answer to this question, has already brought me to seek the opinion of a few online Bible believers and some important RCCG (Redeem) and Deeper Life Church branches and church email address contacts i could get my hands on. However to my disappointment, I have not received a single answer to my questions from the RCCG or Deeper Life contact email addresses.

Below are the statements, obervations, questions and conclusions.


STATEMENTS
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Chinese version:
Olukunle Adewale ”是一个约鲁巴人的名字，而不是希腊的名字，而不是一个希伯莱名字，而不是英文名称。它不能被翻译成英文，而不会造成损失的拼写，身份和意义，因为确定一个人的名字，因此预计不会改变，不论语言和国家。
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Danish Version:
"Olukunle Adewale" er en Yoruba navn, ikke en græsk navn, ikke er et hebraisk navn og ikke et engelsk navn. Det kan ikke blive oversat til engelsk, uden at forårsage tab af stavemåde, identitet og betydning, fordi et navn identificerer en person, og dermed ikke ventes at ændre sig uafhængigt af et
sprog og land.
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French Version:
"Olukunle Adewale" est un nom Yoruba, et non pas un nom grec, et non pas un nom hébreu et non pas un nom anglais. Il ne peut pas être traduit en anglais, sans causer la perte de l'orthographe, de l'identité et de sens, parce que le nom désigne une personne et, par conséquent, ne devrait pas changer, quelle que soit la langue et le pays.
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German Version:
"Olukunle Adewale" ist ein Yoruba Namen, nicht einen griechischen Namen, kein Hebräisch Namen und nicht eine englische Namen. Es kann nicht sein, ins Englische übersetzt, ohne Verlust der Rechtschreibung, Identität und Sinn, weil Sie einen Namen nennt eine Person, und damit ist nicht zu erwarten, zu ändern, unabhängig von Sprache und Land.
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Greek Version:
"Olukunle Adewale" είναι ένα Γιορούμπα όνομα, δεν είναι ελληνικό όνομα, δεν είναι εβραϊκό όνομα και δεν αποτελεί αγγλική ονομασία. Δεν μπορεί να μεταφραστεί από τα αγγλικά δεν προκαλείται απώλεια ορθογραφία, την ταυτότητα και την έννοια, επειδή ένα όνομα προσδιορίζει ένα πρόσωπο, και ως εκ τούτου δεν αναμένεται να αλλάξει ανεξάρτητα από τη γλώσσα και τη χώρα.
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Hebrew Version:
"Olukunle Adewale" הוא יורובה שם, שם לא יווני, לא שם עברית ולא אנגלית שם. זה לא יכול להיות מתורגם לאנגלית ללא גרימת אבדן איות, תוהזה משמעות, כי שם מזהה אדם, ולכן היא לא צפויה
לשנות בלי לשים לב של שפה וארץ.
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English Version:
"Olukunle Adewale" is a Yoruba name, not a Greek name, not an Hebrew name and not an English name. It cannot be translated to English without causing loss of spelling, identity and meaning, because a name identifies a person, and hence is not expected to change irrespective of a language and country.

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Hence it is obvious to see that in other to maintain the level of pronounciation of a name and meaning of a name and indentity of the person bearing the name, it is next to impossible to actually translate a name without a little bit of loss of information or meaning  or pronunciation. Instead it is better to leave the name just the way it is pronounced in its original language.

For example, for the sake of europeans or non-yoruba people, loss of information during translation can be minimised to the bearest minimum when:

"Adebayo" is anglicised/europeanised and spelled as "Adebayo[i]r[/i]" just to protect the complete pronounciation of that particular Yoruba name, at the same time that the spelling becomes something that is easy to understand as an English word.
[/i]


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TRANSLATED NAMES
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English:           Jesus ( or "Iesus" from 1611 KJV from http://www.eliyah.com/1611.gif)
Greek Version: Ιησούς

English:           Christ
Greek Version: Χριστός  or Khristós ( note that the word Khristós means The Anointed.


Obviously its easy to see that the word Khristós is a title and not a name, and hence cannot be the name of the Messiah cus technically speaking, the word "Messiah" is even better placed to be His title and job description (cus a lot of different people can claim to "Annointed", however only one person is going to be the "Messiah" according to Scriptures).
Thus this scripture searching now leaves us with just the name "Jesus" to analyse and thus find out whether or not it is a translation of the real name of the Messiah.  Unfortunately however, there seems to be no reliable hebrew translation for either the names "Jesus" or "Christ", because it is hopelessly next to impossible to have an appropriate and consistent hebrew equivalent that even looks remotely close enough to accurately resemble the "Jesus" and "Christ" as the name by which the Messiah was called during His time on Earth. 
Now if we can't find an appropriate and reliable original Hebrew name that was supposed to have been used to translate to the name "Jesus", then how exactly is it possible for the name "Jesus" to fufill the Bible statement by the Messiah Himself, when He said that "He came in His Fathers Name".


Greek Version: Ιησούς Χριστός
English Version: Jesus Christ
Chinese Version: 耶稣基督
German Version: Jesus Christus
Danish Version: Jesus Kristus
French Version: Jésus-Christ
Yoruba Version: Jesu Kristi

English:  Messiah
Greek: Μεσσίας
Hebrew: המשיח

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BELOW ARE HEBREW NAMES THAT HAVE BEEN CONSIDERED TO BE THE TRUE NAME OF THE MESSIAH.
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Name: Yehoshua  (particular pronounciation caused by Hebrew vowel pointing by Hebrew Masorite scribes)

Name:     Yeshua  ("Yeshua" is said to be the Aramaic form of "Yahushua"
Hebrew: עושי (Yod Shin Waw Ayin)

Name:     Yahshua
Hebrew: עשוהי   (Yod Heh Waw Shin Ayin)

Name:     Yahusha
Hebrew: עושוהי (Yod Heh Waw Shin Waw Ayin )

Name:     Yahushua ("Yahushua" is said to be the Hebrew word with meaning "יהוה is Salvation"
Hebrew: ושוהי (Yah Heh Waw Shin Waw)

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One thing is for sure, all of the above Hebrew names cannot all be True, hence which of the above is the True Name of the Messiah.

a. It then begs the question that if "Jesus" and "Christ" cannot be correctly and accurately translated back into an Hebrew Form, what then was the original Hebrew name from which translators claimed to have translated from, considering that the name "Jesus Christ" is actually merely the English translation of the Greek name (Ιησούς Χριστός).

b. Where did this Greek name (Ιησούς Χριστός) come from.

c. The Genealogy (maternal family tree) of the Messiah, shows that He was supposed to be born into the House of Israel in general and Tribe of Judah in specific. , hence so why should he have a "Greek name" (Ιησούς Χριστός) when He is supposed to a full blooded Israelite living under roman rule in the land of Israel.

d. Would it not be ridiculous for Angel Gabriel to have told Mary (an Hebrew) give the Messiah a "Greek name (Ιησούς Χριστός  i.e.  Jesus Christ)" after His birth even though the Messiah was sent to the House of Isreal (an Hebrew Nation). Also, it begs the question that what was the original name by which the Messiah was known by the Apostles ( who were obviously Hebrews) and Mary (an Hebrew) and people (in the land of Isreal of that time an Hebrew) during His time on Earth.

e. If "Jesus Christ" (Ιησούς Χριστός) was not the original Hebrew name of the Messiah, then:
      - why was it changed, considering that speaking german, spanish, english, yoruba or igbo or hausa or french should not really affect someones identity.
      - when was it changed, i.e was it Peter, Paul, John or the original apostles that changed the name or not, or was it changed after they were all already dead.
      - who changed it to, considering that correct identification is needed to avoid ignorantly referencing the wrong spiritual being.

f. If the name of mere men like [i]Jacob (Isreal or ישראל or Yiśrāʾēl [/i]or [i]Yaʿaqov or Yaʿăqōḇ or ג 'ייקוב), Moses (Moyses or Moshe or משה or Mōšeh or Mωϋσῆς) etc, has hardly changed despite the thousands of years of history that have passed, why then is it that those who translated the Scriptures decided to change the name of the Messiah into a Greek name so much so that the True Hebrew name of the Messiah is now basically very difficult to determine with 100% accuracy.

g. Finally people have to realise that there is no letter J in the Hebrew language hence there is already a problem with the first letter "J" in the name "Jesus", assuming you even choose to ignore all the points that have been raised up to this point as to the reasons why the name "Jesus" simple could not have been the name of The Messiah (an Hebrew man born as an Isrealite and descendant of Judah).

h. Additionally, the fact that the Apostate Church known as the Catholic Church even chooses to promote, use and sanction the name "Jesus" is already a valid cause for alarm and proper investigation, because every True Bible believer knows that the Catholic Church is nothing more than a Disguised form of Idol Worshipping. Hence whatever they believe in and are promoting should be checked thoroughly according to scriptures because their motives is simply pure evil. (i pity those people born into it and who still choose not to get out of it)



Matthew 28:19

[RNKJV] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit:



  - What is the Name of the Father,
  - What is the Name of the Son,
  - What is the Name of the Holy Spirit,


So please in case you have a contribution to make to this topic, can you kindly help with answering the question: What is the True name of the Messiah, considering that the Scriptures placed a very big emphasis on the Messiah's name in connection with issues of salvation, true worship, baptism and dominion over all forces and forms of evil. Further useful websites include [/color] http://www.eliyah.com/yahushua.html, http://www.yrm.org/yrm-videochannel.htm, and http://yahushua.net/ (take care becus i do not completely endorse everything in those websites).

GIVE YOUR COMMENTS, RESPONSES AND MEANINGFUL CONTRIBUTIONS SO THAT ALL BIBLE BELIEVERS COULD BE ALBE TO LEARN AND GROW, CAUSE THIS ENDTIMES IS A DANGEROUS PERIOD, HENCE EVERY MEANS AND OPPORTUNITY TO KNOW THE BIBLICAL TRUTH IS HIGHLY WELCOMED.

THANK YOU.