₦airaland Forum

JeSoul:
I'll try to keep my response concise so its easy for others to follow and understand. Noetic this is to you as well.

1. Christian doctrine is usually not derived from just one verse. Scriptures work hand in hand with other scriptures and we take the bible as a total body of work - not plucking single scriptures and basing entire doctrines on it - especially doctrines of this magnitude.
Now countless times when Jesus teaches, admonishes He said "go and sin no more" "give up all your possessions" "leave your father and mother and follow me". In all this the underlying point is to turn away from the world and to God - in order to be saved. So it is not the giving up of possessions that saves - but the turning to God.

The above is true.

In the same way baptism is an act of obedience to Christ who commanded that we be baptised - hence it is important. However, it is not the act of baptism itself that saves - but instead the repentance. The physical act of baptism is simply the manifestation of the repentance. I will explain . . .

2. Acts 2:38 "Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." So what was Peter saying here? that baptism is a requirement to get into heaven? All thru the subsequent books - Romans, Corinthians, Phillipians, Hebrews, James - we hear Paul and the other writers endlessly harp on Faith, that results in good works.

1. Salvation should not be misunderstood . . . . . . .salvation is depicted as repentance, but John also called for repentance, was John's call for repentance also a call to salvation. . .NO. Salvation is NOT just a call to repentance. . .salvation is the total surrender of ones life and will to God through Christ Jesus. So when Jesus says believe and be baptised . .  . . . . .He simply gave u the first order as a soldier of God's army. baptism does not take anyone to heaven, but it is a spiritual symbolism of ones new patron . . .God.

2. u quoted Acts 2:38 in isolation. perhaps u should ask, what did peter do to those who believed in the gospel he preached. . . . .the answer is in verse 41. . . . .they were all BAPTISED immediately. why would he choose to baptise them since they have already believed the gospel?

3. when Paul talks about faith and James talks about works . . . , they DO NOT contradict each other. This may require a brand new thread. . .but both of them were talking about the same thing. Paul STRONGLY emphasised that while we are under grace (saved by grace) we are NOT allowed to sin (Romans 6:15-18). . this was the same thing James was saying, he called it WORKS . . . . .the works which imply staying away from the sins Paul calls forbidden.


 

We all know that we are saved first to last by Faith (Rm 1:17). So why did Peter not mention Faith at all? we know faith is the foundation not baptism. Or are they all preaching different gospels from each other? Infact the scriptures say "if you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, you will be saved" - where is the mention of you must be baptized?

1. Jesoul, to believe that a jewish carpenter died for your sins and is God. . .requires lots of guts and FAITH. the evidence of that faith is baptism. faith is involved when an issue goes beyond the scope of rationality.

2. True the scripture says that believing in our heart and confessing with our mouth we are saved. but the first creed of our salvation is baptism. is there any example of anyone in the scriptures who got saved without baptism?

---

The bottomline is that all of scripture should be read and understood and applied evenly. Not basing entire doctrines pertaining to salvation on single verses while ignoring other verses that contradict your conclusion. Or else we have this problem of different methods and means of salvation: Jesus said simply believe, Paul says its faith, James - works, now Peter repent and be baptized. Is there confusion in the word? or is it our poor grasp of it?

There is no confusion.

1. Jesus was clear, HE asked that all souls who believe be baptised. . ,  . .  .(mark 16:!6, mathew 28:19)

2. Paul says it is faith. it takes faith to believe that there is a spiritual significance in putting water over a person and calling it baptism. it also takes faith to believe that a death on the cross wipes away sin. Paul's notion of faith does NOT contradict baptism,  . . .baptism is an ACT of FAITH.

JeSoul:
Noetic, I'll ask you the same question I asked Chukwudi who hasn't had the chance to respond yet:

Lets assume a christian dies and was never baptised, is it your position that he/she will not see heaven? but will instead go to hell? (this is the question of the topic) Your response to this question will help in furthering this debate. Cheers.

how did he/she become a CHRISTIAN in the first place without being baptised?. . . . .or are we confused as to the definition of a christian?

InesQor:


[size=15pt]Please can someone prove to me from the Bible how being born of water refers to water baptism? ?[/size]

Is that an assumption we are all making (I hear this is a fundamental Catholic belief)?

Joh 3:4  Nicodemus said to Him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter his mother's womb again and be born?
Joh 3:5  Jesus answered, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, unless a man is born of water and [even] the Spirit, he cannot [ever] enter the kingdom of God. [Ezek. 36:25-27.]
Joh 3:6  What is born of [from] the flesh is flesh [of the physical is physical]; and what is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Why would Jesus be replying Nicodemus' question about answering the womb AGAIN to be born, and then Jesus says unless a man is born of the water and the spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God? Doesn't this show that Jesus' reply was with reference to being born when you are already old?

Why would Jesus continue verse 5 by saying whatever is born of FLESH is FLESH and what is born of Spirit is spirit, unless the water refers to the first birth and the Spirit to the second birth?

You could as well answer ur own question urself.

1. if being born of water does not imply water baptism. . . . . .what then does it imply?

2. he that is born of flesh does NOT know God. . . . .he that knows God must worship Him in spirit and in truth (john 4:24). . , . . .how do u worship God in spirit and in truth? there are two ways . . . . , (b) and (c) . . . .but (a) comes first
a. repent, believe and be saved
b. faith. . . . . .for without faith it is impossible to please God (hebrews 11:6)
c. holiness . . . . . , without which no man shall see God (hebrews 12:14)

. . , .he that is born of spirit worships God through faith . . . .now ur faith in God requires u to get baptised by water as a mark of salvation. disobedience to this creed is simply FAITHLESSNESS.

3. Jesus was not teaching Nicodemus how to get saved when u are old. but was teaching us all . . . . .how to get saved at any age of our lives.

Is it convenient for us all to ignore verses 4 and 6 and just assume that verse 5 can be isolated and given a private interpretation?

verse 3 says: 3In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

what does born-again mean? . . , .is the definition of born-again exempt from baptism?. . .No.
Remember that Jesus commanded that the gospel be preached and that whosoever accepts the gift of salvation be baptised IMMEDIATELY . . . Jesus also attaches believing the gospel to water baptism saying that whosoever believes and is baptised will be saved(mark 16:15-16). . . . .this my dear is a step of faith that shows a significant leap into the family of God.

verse 6 says: 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit.

Flesh here denotes Sin (life without God) . . .while the spirit denotes fellowship with God (a life with God)

The other place where being born again is mentioned, it lends more credence also to the physical THEN spiritual birth complex. I don't believe this has anything to do with baptism!

1Pe 1:23  You have been regenerated (born again), not from a mortal origin (seed, spermatozoa), but from one that is immortal by the ever living and lasting Word of God.

u are simply isolating this verse , . . .the question is how did this person become born-again in the first place?. . . , by simply believing the gospel?. . . .what steps did he/she take?

So, here's a question: is John's Baptism of water of the same spiritual relevance as the Christian Baptism of water e.g. as done by Paul (for a couple of people) and by Peter?

John's baptism was a call to REPENTANCE. the baptism of peter and paul was a call to SALVATION through JC.

If it is not, then how could Jesus be referring to the Christian Baptism to Nicodemus when it had not yet been instituted since the sacrifice was not yet done?

should Jesus preach the gospel before the sacrifice or after the sacrifice? . . , the things recorded in the bible about Jesus, were they before or after the sacrifice?

toba:
Not at all.Oshoffa was clear on what criteria that should be used to select a successor i.e holy spirit would choose.How Bada emerged is still a mystery.Since Bada took over in 85/86 the prob started till today.

Oshoffa's statement was rather ambiguous. . . .since celestial boasts of over 1 million prophets/prophetesses many of whom are false. . . .and since they give contradicting counsels , . . . how then does one know what the HS is saying concerning the leadership?
Do u know that all those claiming the leadership position of the church, claim to have received revelation from the HS?. . . , who then is lying?

Bada to the best of my knowledge caused no problem. . . . .he just was not accepted by some others who considered him inferior and wanted to upstage his leadership.

Congrats to the new mod.

JeSoul:
John 3:5 "Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit."

  ^"Born of water" - frequently used to support the "you must be baptised to be saved" doctrine. But what does "born of water" mean? In the entire paragraph Jesus is speaking to Nicodemus using allegorical and figurative terms - but suddenly when Jesus mentions "born of water" we want to flip from the context, and read only that particular part literally? ojoro now lol.

  Now its your turn to look up something. Use bible.com and check out any commentary you like and there'll be sufficient explanation on that verse.

so what did Jesus mean by born of water?. . . . . . ur assertions are FALSE.

1. it is a Christian requirement to get baptised by water. what u are preaching is a STRANGE gospel.

2. The thief on the cross had no chance of receiving baptism. . . .all he did was to ask for mercy which he received.

3. why should anyone call himself a christian if he/she cannot obey the simple instruction of Christ to get baptised?. . . why bother with the whole of christianity if u cannot get baptised?

so sad.

These problems are largely due to the untimely death of Oshoffa . , . .also a big lesson to all. . . . .always leave room for succession as success without succession is failure.

busybody20:
Your faith forbids Abortion; but it doesnt forbid ADULTERY and FORNICATION

thats humans for u

nopuqeater:
@Noetic16: « #91 on: Yesterday at 11:05:46 PM » Noetic, sir, while you are demanding, I have made my own demand for you to restate that you will fulfill your commitent which you made to Ogaga,if a single verse is shown not to be inspired. I listed many. One of them simply "Opinion" and another "decision" made by Paul. Neither could ever be inspired, especially when the opinion verse argus with what God said in OT, and what is also stated in different manner in NT. You must stand asa man, except if you are not even a human being, because a woman will take her bad medicine which she had decided to take all along.

And Oluwa of Yorubaland is different from Olorun of the Bible. This is the summary of what you have said, above. Obviously, you do not know that a brain is not just that you have what is similar to Eko housed in what your neck carries. It is that you can use it to reason and let your heart visualize it.

Do you think Imust lie like you to score a point? I speak only the truth. Quran is my Guide as it is explained by authentic hadith/sunnah. But then I fo know that my great great great great grandparents must have been idol worshippers before Islam was adopted by the first person to adopt it. In the time of their idolatry, when they worship that image, they must have addressed it as Olorun, Oluwa, Eleda, Eledumare, te exact names the Yorubas, muslims still call their Illah (Allah) when they speak to Him in that language in their Salah. know the christians of yorubaland dont use any of these for their Lords, we the muslims use them, and we are not talking to the Orishas or Sangos or Obatalas, etc of our idolatry forebearers. Open your inner most heart, sir.

It seems as if the truth runs off your heart as water runs off the back of a duck. Look up sir. I already ansswer it, in the above segments. I do not know if abdullh served any idol, just like i do no know if Abraham served baal before he reached a personal conclusion that idol is no Creator, so he sort his Lord. If you find any Islamic material that says abdullah worshipped idol, I will accept it in order to satisfy our argument and my lack of knowledge of it. It is very true that Abdullah did not have a single influence on Mauhammad (AS) becaue he wa dead before the noble soul was born. By the way, the definition of Inspired as in 7 and 8 applied to each and every verse in the Quran, for how can a person in his own writing elevate a tribe that hated him and his people, honor a man whom the Jews call naughty person, declared that people you called idol worshipping king(s) and adulterers, even so murderer to be people of good morals and in the face of great opposition declared 360 idols dead as they were not alive anyway and your 3 god concept abomintion. Yet where necessry, as in Surah Abasa blamed himself?

When you have the spine to tell the world that the moment that i show you, you shall declare in writing the shahadah of accepting Islam, here for us to see. Hopefully, you would have gone to a local mosque o find muslims to physically administer it to you. Just tell us that you will so that, then I will let it loose for all to see.

Am I the only one who cant make sense of this dude's posts any more?

e36991:
Dont get jittery. Driving at a revelation?

I can open a fresh/new thread so as to not derail the original subject matter

jittery at what? . , . . , . do as u please.

e36991:
Has anyone ever reflected or considered with thoroughness and care why Christianity and not Jesuity

- Mind you am not referring to Ignatius Loyola's Jesuit religious order

Why the body of Christ and not the body of Jesus . . .

Why particularly Christ and not Jesus . . .

what are u driving at?

^^^ True words u have spoken. Love is ultimate and I can deduce this from my rel with people. I am being led to accept people unconditionally for who they are. . . .this is quite unlike the old me. Love is a unique attribute of God which He wants all His sons to have.


why did u leave christinaity?

manmustwac:
@post
Firstly, your post is to long and secondly if scientist really did Discover Hell On Earth then why didn't we hear about it on BBC News, CNN, Sky News or any other credible news network?

these news mediums dont report GOOD news. . , bad news sells.

the likes of tudor, mazaje, krayola, deepsight, et all will not believe u until they get to hell and find themselves helpless.
why live as if there is no God?

nopuqeater:
@Noetic16: « #84 on: Today at 05:44:38 PM »  Mr. Noetic, sir, if after all I have posted, then post Yahweh's command, Jesus' command and then Paul's opinion, and if any is counter ideal to the others, shall that proof enough to yo and precipitate your finally dropping the Bible and quiting Christianity? This was your promise and I want you to be a man, not because you have some anatomic organs. But real man morals of standing up and fulfilling promise. Canyou do that?

I ask for the LAST TIME.

what did paul say?. . . . .what did Jesus say?. . .how do they contradict each other?

when you said all acts of man, including that which he says this is what I think and or my opinion, is all in the responsibility of God, instead of the human doer being respnsibility for his own choice of action, in the virtue of freewill. Is that not the reason for Christian heaven and for evil Christian lake of fire? When you sai Paul's stated opinin about mrriage and even when in other verses he usurped authorities of his own, clearly speaking in his own opinion, then what you are saying is that God of the christians have directed him to it. Read your yesterday's post here you started with "you still dont get it" with me. But if I put back in your consciousness and support my arguement of Inspiration is for the purpose of "good", yo will need to tell me if what Hitler did was good, an wen Paul's "opinion" is opposing the command of God, is that still towards "good" and an Inspired "opinion" to oppose an Inspired revelation that is consistence with what man knows of Good God with Mercy and Justice.  

You are a sick minded fellow. So how is the evil "opinion" of man be Inspiration of God, if the Biblical God is always Good? This is why I asked you yesterday to give me the good that came out to the Jews of what Hitler did in WW2. The Jews will run you back to Nigeria from the Enland that you are hiding the moment you let us know, becauseI will mount a campaign to let the World Jewish congress hear it. Now Hitler's opinion brought about his evil action, so I ask you whats Jewish God or Christian God got to do with the evil of Hitler? Now you have answered your 2 posts above, without my putting up a Biblical verse. You now need to get out of Christianity, unless if you agree that Human's opinion, with good or bad result is the "inspiration" of Good God?

Inspiration being the handiwork of God to achieve a good purpose. But when a man says this is my own opinion, and its result is evil and opposition to what actually said, as you can read bot, now tellme is that man's "oipnion" God "inspiration?"

below is the meaning of man's opinion as defined in Merriam-Webster dictionary on line: take your pick, sir.

Main Entry: opin·ion
Pronunciation: \ə-ˈpin-yən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin opinion-, opinio, from opinari
Date: 14th century
1 a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter b : approval, esteem
2 a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge b : a generally held view
3 a : a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert b : the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based

— opin·ioned  \-yənd\ adjective

synonyms opinion, view, belief, conviction, persuasion, sentiment mean a judgment one holds as true. opinion implies a conclusion thought out yet open to dispute <each expert seemed to have a different opinion>. view suggests a subjective opinion <very assertive in stating his views>. belief implies often deliberate acceptance and intellectual assent <a firm belief in her party's platform>. conviction applies to a firmly and seriously held belief <the conviction that animal life is as sacred as human>. persuasion suggests a belief grounded on assurance (as by evidence) of its truth <was of the persuasion that everything changes>. sentiment suggests a settled opinion reflective of one's feelings <her feminist sentiments are well-known>.

and the below is the meaning of God Inspired statement: from dictionary.referece.com (notice it does not allow for a person to have personal opinion, or personal thought, exactly what Paul had in his many statements in the Bible. I had given you some two days ago when we started). Can God Inspired a revelation in one part of a Book to oppose (make false) another inspired revelaton in another part of the sae Book? What if one of these two claimed Inspired revelation is dubbed "my opinion, my thought" by the the so called "agent of the inspired word to man", can it be the correctly "inspired" verse, instead of the one that carries no such personal identification as "my opinion, or my thought"?

6.to communicate or suggest by a divine or supernatural influence: writings inspired by God.
7.to guide or control by divine influence.
8.to prompt or instigate (utterances, acts, etc.) by influence, without avowal of responsibility.
9.to give rise to, bring about, cause, etc.: a philosophy that inspired a revolution.

Definition 2a and definition 7 and 8 . . . . .should illustrate the notion of inspired opinion to u.

I do have a brain and I have answered your set of questions: God Almighty is One. He ws before creation. He was during Old Testament era. He was during New Testament era. He was during evelation era of Quran. he is evem now. He will be te same in the future. He shall even after Judgement. Again, you man of little faith, from an evil generation, a peson of adulterous perception (am praising you because thats what Jesus said to his 12 disciples; read your Bible for follow up), the seeking of forgiveness by killng lamb, goat, etc as the OT people used to do, or the lies of klling a man on the cross as you believe, is cancelled and mercy and forgiveness and ability to talk to God are made easy in Islam on a direct to God basis. Futher anointment of oil (pobably what the women were doing with the still alive post crucifixion Jesus, for the Jewsdo not anoint or oil their dead), is cancelled in Islam because God does not bother the soul more than it can handle.

No my dear, from the above I can deduce that u dont have a brain.
what is the meaning of the story above? . . . . .the koran allah did NOT stop OT traditions simply because he did not start it in the first place. . . .simple.
This implies that the koran's allah is DIFFERENT from the bible GOD.

Ease for the muslims. Mercy and forgiveness and pettition made easy.

Proof from the Quran itself, ir. The same way I have been ding from yor Bible. Talk is easy, but truth is heavy.

I tought you are a tribe man, with a tribal name for God that was exactly the same that the christians of today still call Christian God in your language? Sorry. If you are an english man, before Christianity what name do you people call God, differently from what you call Him in english today that your bloodline is now Christian? Thats what the rubbish above means. You are still required to answer.

I do not know who pagan abdullah worshipd. But it is not Allah the Lord of all creations. If you can connect Muslim Ilah (Allah) to be he same ilah (idol worshiped by arab pagans) then show us in the Quran. Again, I ask you what is the name of the god that the pagansworshipped before christianity, and what is the name of the God tha tyou christians now worship? I need both in your language: One all acceptable name each from the two eras.

do u have a better explanation to the idol abd-allah worshipped?

It is true that Muhammad was born into a period of "idolatry", but he was in good company because th father of faith, Ibrahim (AS) was also in his time brn into a family and period of idolarty. Without your proof from the Quran as I am proofing statemnt about Paul from the Bible, you are just grabbing for straws.

ur argument is both lame and ridiculous. who was the allah abd-allah was serving?. . .simple

Ihave done enough. Thank you. Now do research on the verses of Paul opinions opposing God Inspirations. Then let me know. You have not even committed yourself to what you promised my man the atheist guy, though am doing his job for him. Therewas no restriction tha a Mulim cant help the atheist to expose the less tha 100% Inspired word of God, which is known as the Bible.

ok. , please help me.

just show me the verses where Paul opposed God.

the propaganda continues. . . . , .

nopuqeater:
@Noetic16: « #80 on: Today at 12:08:59 AM » Big brother yo did not adequately answer my queries regarding personal Opinions. If you are using the selling Joseph to slavery act of the his 10 brothers to explain the personal opinion of Paul on marriage which is incongruent to what God, Jesus and other apostles said, then I want you to know that you reached a different conclusion that will not be morally correct. First Joseph dreamt about his lofty position which his sale into slavery was part of the process of bringing it to pass. We can absolutely say that the end is somewhat in agreement with the plan of God, with Joseph and the exodus that brought the Israelites out of Egypt. This is different from the opinion of Paul, unless christianity now agrees that "you can now yoke with disbelievers", "the disbelievers are purified and sanctified the moment the are married to a believing spouse", "since you are purified and sactied anyway, there is doubt that the said disbeliever shall enter the paradise of the Jews and or the heaven o the christian", "shall never enter hell of the jews o the lake fire of the christians", "and christian baptism is irrelevant and essentially nullified". These are just for starters, because in essence, you ar saying that a disbeliever like me, is purified and sanctified as soon as I married a christian wife. I think you seem to rubbish baptism and the essence of christinity, etc, all to be replaced by a mere marriage of peope like me, a disbeliever to a womanin your christian camp. Do you have a sister i can marry to shore up my condition, so i can remain a muslim and with my muslim offsprings from her make the heaven of Christian? In essence, Paul with this verse declares that to believe the death and ressurrection of Jesus is secondary to the marriage that will purify and sanctify.

help me understand ur ignorance. , . . , what did Paul say concerning marriage?. . . .what did Jesus say?. . . .how do they contradict each other?

You miss the point in such a huge way; if each of the deed of mankind is not from his freewill even when it is evil and opposing the laws and commandmet of God, even when s/he says this is my opinion, or my thinking, if we can ancor it to God, shall we then say that Judas Iscariot or Hitler, etc is destined to hellfire,because of their actions that we perceive to be "evil?" According to your statement above, you seem to blame everything on God, just as you give Him credit for good then blaming or rather crediting Him for the evil. What then is the need for hell fire, or lake of fire, or judgement day and paradise or heaven? Whar is the value of Jesus to you and why did he come again, if all things, good or bad can be credited to God, and opinion of Paul is Inspiration from God, so hat ?Paul can disagree with Him? Will it not be sensible that what is considered Inspiration can be stated to be "Opinion?"

This is rather dumb. There was no where in my primordial post where i said evil agenda's align with God's inspiration?. . .can u read at all?

Whats your point? I wanted to know if the opinion of paul is not just opinion, or how do you say it is inspiredby God, when that very opinion doe against what God in heaven said to the old prophets, what Jesus said and what other disciples of jesus said, you are going about with guess work. Whats the relevance of your statement to the core of the issue? Is opinion inspired? Is inspired opinion? especially when "OPINION" is opposing what God said? Who is right? The wrong entity must be a liar and the lie cant be Inspired? Does Christian God inspire people to lie, opposing Him in order that the liar does good, and his lies is taking over the statement of God?

check the meaning of an opinion in the dictionary, . . .then come back to see my connection between human opinion and God's inspiration. If after this u still do not understand then I cant help u.

You are so confused its sickening! I knew you didnt have the gut to follow through on your statement about quitting Christianity, the moment you are defending and trying to mix and match "a statement from the man Paul" which he classified as his own "opinion" to mean in your twisted mind as "opinion of God" (Inspiration to man; you said the whole of the Bible is Inspired. This is the subject matter as I see it). This "opinion" of Paul could only be the "opinion" of God, if Paul is now God, or Paul said that "this is the opinion of God". Paul did not alllude to either, so why are you? A ki nmo Osho ju iya Osho lo. Do you know Paul more than Paul? Would he not now his own opinion and what oped for him?

I should follow through and join islam, because u could not read and understand simple english? are u so DUMB?
why do u find it difficult defining inspiration?. . .what is inspiration and how does God inspire people?

Even the evil action of Hitler was for a good cause, a process that God of the Christians based on Paul's opinion, though different from God's earlier commandment, is the same according to you as all deeds (good or bad) of mankind. It can be ancored on God. Man is not responsible for any good or evil; man cant be blamed.

You are now defeated. But you will not stand lke a man and take it. Renounce Christianity an quit the Bible; that was your promise.

now I laugh in japanese. the ignoramus who cannot define or explain the concept of "inspiration" is claiming a delusive victory.

Allah says His way (sunnah) is constant; He is One and there is no One along with Him. Allah says about the "animal slaughter of Hajj" it is the obedience of the offerer that is important and not the meat or he blood of the animal. With tis very statement, Allah commands and nullifies rituals of the OT for the most part with Islam, especially looking at the enemity of the Jews to Muhamad (as) and his followers. Even the mere change of direction of prayer in Madina to what it was in Makka (the Ka'aba) was a thing that the Jews thought they had over the muslims, when they were facing Ilya (Jerusalem).

Allah says that he has made religion easy for Muslims, easier than any nation before the nation of Muslims under Muhammad. A muslim does not have to slaughter to have a means of forgiveness, or receiving mercy. A simple stefah (like astagha firullah is enough. There is a load like that. No one have to be killed for me. No even an animal, while you wrestle with a person killed tragically as a means of forgiveness for thechristian. Alas, Thank Allah Who blinded Paul in his entry of opinion which negates what God said, what Jesus said, what earlier disciples said, what he Paul also said).

Do u have a brain at all?. . if u do. . . please answer the questions and avoid the unnecessary escapism.

why did allah stop the OT traditions and why did he stop them?. . . , why would allah stop this traditions all of a sudden?

show class sir. It is Quran. And if you are talking about my Creator, He is Allah, not allah.

if u must know. . . the koran's allah is a fraud and NOT the creator. the koran's allah is an idol with a wife and daughters.

Which Olorun was the Onisongo worshipping versus te Olorun that his great great great great great grandson the christian preacher man is worshipping? Which Yahweh was the "idolator" (according to the Christians) king solomon was worshipping versus the Yahweh Zachariah worshipped? Apply the same sentiment to each. Pele o lako o labo. The One God who creates is always in existence in Hos full Power and essence, without any deficiency. Even the hindu believes that God is One, because when it comes down to it, he lifts his head up to let you know that what are on earth, in his temples are make believes, while the REAL GOD is Unseen, much much above the sky.

whats the meaning of the rubbish above?

who was the allah that abd-allah was serving?. . . . . . .since mohammed was not born before he (abd-allah) died?

I will answer it for u. The allah abd-allah was serving was one of the 360 idols in saudi arabia at that time. This idolic allah had a wife called allat and 3 daughters. mohammed's father was probably a priest of this idolic allah.
Mohammed was born into an idolatry allah family. . . all he did was to elevate the idolic allah to a divine status.

Do some research on islam before exposing ur ignorance.

Yes. . .I support a search party for DeepSight . . . . .the way he opens threads with succinct probing analyses is second to none.

nopuqeater:
@noetic16 :« #75 on: Today at 12:58:59 PM » To the bolded; I know, since it boiled up your blood. Remember you said "Inspired". Could inspiration be labelled by the speaker as "I think, my own opinion", while the reader stubbornly calls it "Inspired", regardles? One will be forced, even casually to ask, is the reader who denies the classification of the speaker completely different from what the speaker says it is "drunk, blind, naive, ignorant or purely the most dispeakable" of all ignoranemous? But t least you mr. Noetic is different from the toothless barkng canine Toba, above. Kudos to you.

i believe that I have answered ur queries with regards to personal opinions Sir. for instance Joseph was sold into slavery by his brothers. . .while literal readers would see it as wickedness on the part of the brothers. . , .spiritual insight would see it as an ACT of God. . . . .meaning that God used the evil intention of Joseph's siblings to bring about His own perfect will for that season.

If I say this is my opinion, or my command, etc, can I sincerely say that the speech under that opinion, is Inspired by Yahweh or Jehovah or Jesus or the Holy ghost or holy spirit (you decide)? What if I am incorrect, especially what I say in that opinion is completely opposite to what another person said through the Inspiration of the same God, or Jesus etc? Who is right between the two completely different speaker? Are both inspired to oppose each other and what is the purpose of the Inspirations if they will lead us to doubt one of the two?

You miss the point. There are two things here

1. God inspires things. whether u believe or disbelieve this simple reality. God's inspirations come inform of human ability. . .that explains why a man would say he has an idea, not knowing that he was inspired from the throne of heaven

2. humans tell LIES A LOT. That people claim to hear from God does not mean that they actually hear from God. people lie in the name of anyone and anything. I could as well say that I know the person behind the nopuqueater ID and get people to believe me. . . but does that mean that I know u as a person?

Opinion is opinion. Thats personal. It is not inspired. Are both the same? If you can justify opinion as Inspiration, Mr. Noetic here I come, because all inspired verses of the Bible re simply opinions of the writers. I hope you like that.

You still dont understand, . . . .I will make a last attempt to enlighten u on this opinion and inspiration thing.

1. human opinion on ANY subject are not necessarily God's opinion and vice versa.

2. God's opinion on issues are revealed to chosen men for the purpose of teaching it unto others

3. The mode by which God reveals His opinion to His chosen men includes laying of such matters in the heart of man.

4. when such issues are laid in the heart of man. . .it looks as if it is his (human) personal opinion. . . it takes a person who walks with God to understand that whats on his/her heart is actually a message from God. . . . cos if u listen attentively, this message usually includes new things u were never taught anywhere, which u also never knew of.

5. when a man attempts to transport this message from God from a message to a teaching or reality. . . this message is usually transported as a man's opinion.

6. the fact that it is called a man's opinion does not make it a man's opinion. It can be traced back to its source. . .God

7. I hope u can have an appreciative understanding of the spiritual context of human opinion in Godly matters such as the bible.

Mr. Noetic, if this is so then tell the Jews of the world that what the evil man Hitler did to them and many other tribes and traditions in WW2 is the handiwork of their Yahweh, your trinity. But Phillipians 2 verse 13 spoke about the "GOOD", so what good came about the gassing of the Jews that they are by and large continue to complain about, because they have not gotten it? YOu may have to tell them now. Please tell the africans and colored people the good of slavery. Tell the south africans the good of apartheid. I hope you are strong enough to shout it out, otherwise you are mud with me.

With due respect. . . may I ask. . .what EXACTLY is the relevance of the above to the thread?

Mr. Noetic, sir, if that was not part of my purpose, I will be a liar. Allah (God in English, Oluwa in Yoruba, Obanjigi in Hausa, Chukwu in Igbo, and every language has its own) inspired the Quran: Proof; they are many. But lets start with Bismalla. Every verse of the Noble Quran is from Allah SWT. If you have your proof t the contrary, pleas let me read it after you resolve our standing issue; you can proof each of the Biblical verse that I posted in past posts incorrect as a result of my bad reading of the very direct verses. Otherwise you need to stand up and throw away the Bible, otherwise you are a freaking liar.

But then wait; Jesus is stated to be a son of God, and has no earthly father. Right. But there are two geneologies of his father's bloodlines in the Bible. They are not exactly alike. So we need to ask; which one is correct? Further neither list Jesus claimed father (God) in the list. You see the multiplications of your delution, big brother? Here is my "opinion" (accordingto you it is Christian God that Inspires "opinion" even as I say this is mine), your Bible writers forged geneologies (a nutjob, and terribly erronous work) to either blindly make Jesus into a human as if you people are not primarily arguing that he is not a human, but God (lol. w know better because he ate, and did all humanly functions), and or God Almighty blinded your leaders (the Bible writers) in order to expose their lies to the discerning minds.

This is fast becoming interesting , . . . .So u claim that God actually inspired ur koran?

Let me ask u two questions. . . . .

1. is the koran's allah the same God as the one of the Old testament? if yes. . , . . .why did he stop using the anointing oil? why did he stop accepting lamb sacrifices? and why did he abandon the 10 commandments?. . . . .if No. . .who EXACTLY is the allah behind the koran?

2. mohammed's father was called Abd-allah. . .meaning the slave of allah. who was the allah he was serving, since he died before mohammed was born?

toneyb:
How does the God hypothesis explain any thing really?

depends on how objectively u look at it the posers it unravels. what ever holes u chose to pick or elaborate in the God hypothesis, can also be illustrated for any of the hypothesis u postulate.

The extinction of species makes a perfect example of an imperfect planet. Of what use is all the death and destruction? What is the intelligence behind the gratuitous pain and sufferings experienced by the species?

No sir. . . .I STRONGLY DISAGREE.

The death and destruction of species is counter balanced by the birth of new species. . .this IMO creates a balanced and "perfect" planet. Can this planet survive if no humans (since the first man) has ever died? where would u or I be in that kind of an unbalanced system?

Natural selection explains these phenomena better than the "God did it" hypothesis. What super intelligence is it that supposedly designed the reproductive systems of humans so poorly? The human reproductive canal is way too small and leads to unnecessary deaths. What meaningful food chain are you talking about since a lot of animals die out of starvation? Natural selection is NOT a random process and explains these things better than your "God did it" hypothesis. How does your "God did it" explain the existence of diseases and earth quake for example? How does your God did it hypothesis explain all the wasted space?

1. really? have u got a better idea of a reproduction system? where do u place the curse God placed on man on eliminating them from the garden of eden? . . . .there are 7 billion people alive today who are perfect products of a well functioning reproductive system. . . . .how does this simple FACT fit into ur innuendos?

2. if u subscribe to the "God did it" hypothesis then u should not have any problem believing that the evil (including diseases and natural disasters) of this present world can be traced to sin.

3. What I see is a perfectly designed solar system, organic habitats, plant and animal kingdoms, unbelievably lovely sense organs. , . . . . can u think of a necessary sense organ that humans need to survive on this planet that we do not have?

Reality has nothing to do with your God did it hypothesis.

what is reality? , , . . . does reality tell u, that u evolved from a monkey?

There are so many explanations, Like natural selection, adaptation, competition, evolution etc. How has the God did it hypothesis explain anything beside ascribing things we don't know to something imaginary? How does God did it explain the existence of bacteria, virus and volcanoes?

This is quite evasive.

which of the above ridiculous hypothesis do u subscribe to and why.

benodic:
l like to congratulate you again because the step you have taken is one that very few christians know about. you are going to gradually turn from a believer to a knower. you are finally realizing that God is a very personal concept indeed and It is very unique to the individual. you will be gradually guided step by step by your own path according to your strength and weaknesses until you become a purified vessel for God to use for Its purposes on earth. the true word of God is not written in a book but it is written in our hearts. in one of my early inner experiences when i started having contacts with the spiritual masters my major question was about the existence of hell. so in one of my experiences i asked the master about it. does hell really exist and what is it like? the master took me to a place where a very big fire was burning very fiercely. he asked me to enter the fire. but i was alarmed and refused. he told me not to be afraid that i should go ahead and enter the fire. i finally picked up courage and entered the fire. but i was surprised that i did not feel anything. the fire was all over me but i was not consumed by it. i came out of the fire and the master said to me. as soul you are eternal and immortal. and no fire can burn soul, no water can drown soul, no knife can pierce soul. soul is made of the same qualities as God, omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. the only sin soul commits is being ignorant of its real nature and thinking that it the human body. after i came back from that experience i became the fearless one.

1. I do have strong beliefs that do contradict some of the things u have said here. For instance I believe that hell is real and not a joke. my spiritual experiences have also made me understand to try and see things from God's perspective. My understanding of God's judgement has really changed since i have seen certain things that have also been explained to me. That probably explains the zeal with which i debate such issues as the blood shed in the OT . . . , simply because I have seen enough to know the truth.

2. On a second thought, I think that the ONLY reason why i my spirit has not been able to go beyond the ceiling while I am conscious is largely due to my dogma. . . . .I always resist the urge and force that attempts to carry me off and return my spirit into my body. But i am powerless from resisting this same force in my dreams. . . infact I initiate the process of flying away to safety and doing supernatural things.

3. true a man's soul might be immortal. . , but u must never forget the words of Jesus when He spoke of He who could destroy both the soul and spirit. (mathew 10:28). . . . . .death and hell would be cast into a lake of fire. . . . .they would both perish and their occupants.

4. True to fact, my knowledge of the spiritual has greatly influenced my approach to life. Considering what i have seen and how they have come to pass. . . I think that life is one stage managed affair. . . but within the orbit of predestination is a tiny capacity of free will. . .it is this free will that will face the judgement throne of God.

whaoooo . . . . very interesting.

There is absolutely a whole lot out there that I cannot describe in words. The SM like u call him, has told me many crazy things that are about to happen. one thing he constantly tells me is to look around my room and asks me, who do u see?. . . , I say no one, I am the only one here. . .he answers that it is u and God that are right here and thats how it should be in the future that I am taking you to. . . .you are to have no adviser who is to take the place of God.

I have been banned from doing so many things that others do and call natural or necessary. For me its a strange and new experience . . . . but the greatest advantage is that i know God on a personal level and not from the bible alone, sermons or hearsays.


I'd like to hear more about ur exp . . . . .

in jail somewhere

hez an unashamed gay

benodic:
congratulations, you actually do have a spiritual master. my dear in the inner worlds there are lots of spiritual masters who work for God in helping souls develop spiritually. if yours is still invisible it is because you may not yet be ready to accept his identity so you only hear his voice. why don't you try asking him to show himself to you. the experience might be more interesting.

in moments of anger and frustration I have asked the person speaking to reveal himself, his name . . .bla bla bla. . , .i usually get no response, . , . . .now lets share some of ur own experiences

benodic:
dear noetic16, i love your inner experiences. next time you have a conscious out of the body movement, try asking for your spiritual master to appear so that you can have some discussions with him. or have you already had such experiences? if so would you mind sharing

i dont know what u mean by spiritual master. . .but I know two things.
a. there are 2 accompanying angels with me . . . . I saw them dispatched to me in a vision.
b. I have an invisible company with me . . . .he is invisible even in the spirit realm where angels are seen. . .i only hear his voice.

nopuqeater:
@Noetic16And if there is a verse that goes against the meaning of this very verse above, it destroys the idea of the whole Bible being Inspired by God. It is an endictment against the whole belief, and you just have to abandone such a religion, a book (see the listed verses in my first post above that proof that the Bible is not 100% inspired by God. No sir. Man has his own opinions, commands, instructions, etc).

start by defining what u understand by "inspiration from God"?

nopuqeater:
@Noetic16: « #38 on: Today at 06:21:33 PM » Noetic16, if there is a proof from the Bible that a human being has his own opinion in it, regardless of anything you may argue, that singular Proof actually nullifies the Bible as Inspired by God. If God does anything it is always 100%, even when He gives advise, command, or any other. For God is not An Author of "Confusion". If a human opinion (see below verses as my proof) is in the Bible then there is confusion and it fails the Inspiration from God Test, unless you can Proof that Human being is the same God Wo Inspires:
1 corinthians 7 verse 40 (Paul thinks; not sure (thats a personal opinion)); this single vers throws away all that Paul said to ever be 100% authentic. It is now by this a 50/50 chance, similar to everyone else.
1 cornthians 7 vers 25 (Paul clearly says he does not have command from God, but gives his gudement anyway considering himself "trustworth" hence giving statements about the matter of mariage contrary to the long standing Jewish law which Jesus did not dare change; see verse 26 through 28).
1 corinthians 7 verse 10, tells us that Paul gives this command, and sheepishly says from God not I gave it, about marriage with the following verses 11 through 16 declaring that a disbeliever spouse and children of a believer are now sanctified and holy, nullifying the essece of "Baptism" and not to yoke with unbelievers on one hand and opposing God on marriage (Even Paul opposes himself: 1 corinthians 7 verse 39, 2 corinthians 6 verses14 through 18), through the commandments of God in (Nehemiah 13 veses 23 through 31, 2 chronicles 36 verses 15 through 21, Judges 3 verses 1 throug 8, Deuteronomy 7 verses 1 through 6, Joshua 23 verses 6 through 13), on another hand.
2Timothy 4 verses 9 through 13 where Paul is actually speakng for himself as he gave pesonal instructions towards his ministry and not God's.
Titus 3 verses 12 through 14 whereby Paul decided t "winter" at a place. Obviously God had nothing to do with all these confusions and obviously the verses dont seem to have been "God breathed and or Inspired". Now you need to do exacly what you said above. Dont go to Jdaism orAtheism or another Ism, but come to Islam for your Success. I hope you will fulfill your promise.

your "analysis" is quite Silly.

1. if u read phillipians 2:13 . . . . . .it tells us how God works/inspires us. It talks of God working with us both to WILL and to DO. implying that a man who Wills to do good and his ability to do that which he wills is effectively the work of God. that explains why God uses fellow humans to bring about miracles in our ordinary lives.

2. in lieu of 1 above, how then did u come to the erroneously ridiculous opinion that human opinion in the bible nullifies the notion of God's inspiration?

3. perhaps u need to understand what it means to be a vessel unto honour. The only reason why we are encouraged to give thanks at all times is simply because the things we think are our own abilities like intelligence, tenacity, wisdom, ideas et all are actually God-given. . . i.e God working through us to fulfil a purpose.

4. u did not show me an example of what God inspired. . , did God inspire ur koran?

illusion2:
Did you see what your 'psychic' body looked like?

How can you confirm you weren't dreaming ?

I'm not a skeptic,I just need valid proofs

proofs of what?

babaearly:
Dont know if you are joking, but i aint lying.

No i am not joking. I did experience what u did on several occasions. . . . , on the moments I was conscious I hardly flew beyond my "immediate sky" which I called my ceiling. . . . . but during dreams when I am under attack or in danger I do fly and get amazed as to how high I can.

benodic:
dear noetic16, that was a wonderful out of the body experience. i have had several like that and i have realised that the key is to fill your heart with love for life as this eliminates all fear. what you experienced is the beginning of spiritual freedom and when you take it further from there. you will be able to cross the borders of death whil fully conscious and visit one of the heavens of God and see how things are for yourself.

my dear, i have actually seen the hill of God described in psalm 24 and many other things. These are the little things I see that continues to strengthen my faith in God.

grace5:
please go on . ,  .



OK Angel are ministering spirit there are messenger to serve you kinds of angel are,guardian,praise ,worship,warring angel also cherubim and seraph.watcher and arch angel( like Michael)

continue is like real i turn the angel was standing his back to the wall,he was looking at me i thought is a statue
(1st time of having angelic encounter)
he stretch his right hand to me,i just went to him i believe is my spirit,i ask him are you JESUS he said no i ask are we going to JESUS.
no answer unbelievable he hold my hand we went through the roof ,then we going up through the cloud like when plane just took off believe me exactly like that then, want more(conclusion then encouter with demon,2 guardian angel more),

note : Angel are ministring spirit to serve you as christian they respond to your prayer,name of JESUS,under the control of holy spirit.
when you worship in spirit they are around you.

if u want to share it do so. . .otherwise . . . . .