₦airaland Forum

babaearly:
If you care to disbelieve well its your take.
My out of body experience was as a result of trials and errors. I was into mysticism when i was really young like 12-18 years, and i really learnt alot of things and gained some physic powers. The ultimate for me was the astral travelling experience and i desired so much to experience it. It was at the later stage when i became unserious in mysticism that i had that awesome experience. It was something else.
No need to ask me where i got the powers from but it didnt work after many trials. It took about 3 months for it to click.
I was in my room and my two siblings, twins came to stay with me for the night. I never knew it would happen at that time. Suddenly all i could see was the ceiling and it was very close and i wondered what was happening. I didnt know my psychic self was way up the ceiling and my earthly body was way down on the bed. When i turned back to the ceiling, i could see myself sleeping peacefully, and my siblings sleeping too. Before i could think about my next move, a great force like a wind was pushing me from one corner of the room still at the top of the ceiling to another corner. This lasted for up to 10 minutes and it wasnt funny. Then my psychic body returned back to myself on the bed, and man, i was shivering and feeling all over-sweaty.
I have left mysticism for a while since then but that night is the time ill never forget in my life.

I have experienced this on several occassions too . . . . I dont usually go beyond my ceiling though. . . . . .except if it happens in my dream, then i end up flying around, especially out of danger.

KunleOshob:
Adeboye is such a big dissapointment and the funny thing is that he is able to fool so many people by pretending to be humble yet his life styl is glaringly far from being humble.

Dont comment on the things u dont know. , . . .do u know adeboye personally? so why impugn him?

grace5:
I see  an angel GOD in vision quite awesome many years ago very tall look like man,colour white like snow
with big feathers at his back has two hand ,
he hold my hand. and we fly him holding my hand the rest , more if you really have interest

please go on . , .

illusion2:
^^^You were probably hallucinating

what a ridiculous statement.

The rate at which these peeps go to make RIDICULOUS and baseless assertions that suits their dogma is sickening.

toneyb:
When look around I see order and I also see chaos. So are the order and chaos all intelligent? When I look around I see mindless forces causing order and chaos all the time. Its 50% order and 50% chaos. [b]The God hypothesis has failed to explain the order and chaos we see around. It tries to but it fails completely in my opinion. [/b]Our planet is very crude and harsh. We live in a world in which 98% of all the species that have ever emerged are now extinct. What order is there when most of the species that have ever lived are now extinct? A world that is constantly at the mercy of natural disasters, diseases and one strife or the other.

1. your opinion is not based on any FACT.

2. the extinction of species does not make the case of an imperfect planet, neither does natural disasters or ,

The intelligent order of creation that creates a meaningful food chain, plants and animals, respiratory and reproductive systems,  the solar system, the mountains and hills, forests, seas and oceans, land and every other thing u can think of does not connot randomness. . . . . , it connotes super intelligence. . . . .what I find baffling is your dismissal of this obvious reality.

Sure there is definitely a lot of beauty in nature, but there are also a lot of disturbing things too. Just observe a pack of cheetahs or lions taking down a zebra and eating it while it's alive and twitching, or even a Venus fly trap capturing a living insect and digesting it alive. Consider the Solar System. Only the earth is hospitable to human life, the rest is just chaos. Asteroids and comets colliding against one another and against other planets. Needless destruction in my opinion. Most of the earth is inhospitable to human life and the life of other species. YES there is a lot of order but then there is equally a lot chaos.

1. whats your explanation for the beauty of nature u mentioned?

2. why do u exclude the zebra consumption from the "beauty of nature"? . . . . .the zebra also survives on other organisms . . .neither does the lion live forever. . .the lion is also eventually fed on. . .how then does this scene u describe constitute the ugliness of nature?

3.  perhaps u are assuming that the other planets on our solar system were designed for man. . . . were they? how does man's inability to dwell on other planets constitute ugly nature? . . . . .has man maximised the full potentials of the earth?

and David shows up when he sees the magic word "EVOLUTION"

toneyb:
Evolution to me is just a plausible but flawed hypothesis of the origins and diversity of species and all life forms both living and extinct. It has some form of [i]evidence [/i]for it even though very very little compared to your belief that some unknown and undetectable deity used words of the hebrew language to create all the birds that we see around about 6000 years ago. I was not there when the planet evolved neither where you or any of the persons that penned down the genesis creation myth which you believe in.

what amazes me are ur excuses for the ntelligent order of creation as we see it today?

toneyb:
Bla bla bla sheep have you any wool?

yes sir yes sir. .  .three bags full  

No God has ever appeared and said that he/she inspired any book at all. People wrote down all the books in the bible according to various reasons and intentions, people sat down and choose which books they desired to accept and label "inspired" books, people sat down and decided to call such books that they wrote and choose the word of God. People write books all the time and do such things to them. The hindu verde are inspired words of Gods and Goddesses according to the Hindus no?

1. lets start with the appearance of God. how do u dispute the appearance of JC and God to persons all over the world. how do u dispute this appearance to me?. . .where is ur evidence to establish that I did not see JC? . . . . .that u dont believe or subscribe to my testimony does NOT make it a lie?

2. I asked for ur understanding of inspiration. . . . .but as usual u dodged the question. if u understand what it means for God to inspire then u would have no problem attributing the selection process of the books that made the bible to the divine inspiration of God. . .phillipians 2:13

3. I have not at any time disputed any claims of the hindus. . . I just do not subscribe to them, simply cos I have no proof to establish that their beliefs are baseless. .  .none the less, I do not subscribe to their beliefs and notions.

I DO NOT want you to be an atheist. You can believe anything you want as long as you also believe that atheist have all the right not to subscribe to your belief in God.

1. no one has attempted to deny u the right to be IGNORANT, DELUSIVE and to live in SELF DENIAL. . . . .no one has denied u the right to disbelieve the existence of GOD or to be an atheist. u however DONT have the right to pass ur innuendos and biased assertions as facts or truth.

2. I would be a great convert u know   . . . just prove to me that God did NOT inspire the bible.

jesus.:
I asked my atheist friends in the UK what gave them the impression that there's no God/god to date none had been able to give me answer(s)

Here on NL i hope to get answers

You would get loads of "answers" that LACK reason or logic . . . . .loads of LIES and baseless innuendos.

P.S. . . . . .why not change ur ID. . . , the Jesus u bear is BIGGER than u.

toneyb:
Aren't you tired of beating the dead horse into the ground already? https://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/c2e47fc50d.gif

No I am not. . .the dead horse made a FALSE assertion. . . all I am calling for is clarification

toneyb:
When will you stop beating the dead horse into the ground. https://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/smilies/deadhorse.gif

Men write stories ALL THE TIME don't they? According to what men say All their religious books were inspired by their various Gods no?

Men created the  said "ontological nature" of all the Gods they have worshiped and they are still worshiping. Men created ALL religions and ALL the fruits of all the religions they believe in including those religions that are dead and those that are still alive. Religion is nothing more than man's way of doing things that is why it varies from place to place and from culture to culture.

Blah blah blah


. .  . .just tell how EXACTLY u came to the conclusion that God did not inspire the bible. .  .showing me another example of what God inspired. . . . .than I will drop my bible, abandon my faith and subscribe to ur atheistic malady.

NO


hez a bad friend. . . did not include me in his goodbye list

jagunlabi:
God can not be discredited by anyone, even if he/she try extremely hard.Only manmade gods and the dubious yarns spun around them(religious doctrines) can be discredited.

an opinion not worth a penny.

toneyb:
It's simple ALL Gods are creation of men. When one considers all the fanciful creatures that have been made up by the imagination of human beings one must admit men created all their favorite God or Gods as well. After all, mankind has demonstrably invented thousands of god-myths over the years.

and where is the proof or intellectually driven argument/logic to back up the above fallacy?

So an easy way to look at this question is to compare it to someone else who we all know was invented by mankind: Santa Claus.

What is the evidence for the non-existence of Santa Claus? What lack of evidence do we have for the existence of Santa Claus? There is not a single argument that has ever been made to support the existence of "God" that cannot be applied in some way to support the existence of Santa Claus.

This is LAME.

why dont u start by listing the evidences that reconcile the existence of God to that of santa claus?

toneyb:
Can you point to the existence of any God on its own as mazaje loves putting it outside man made stories(about such a God), man made culture, traditions, Man's societal influence and acceptance?

what are u talking about? . . , , .how do u ascertain that the bible u read is man-made and not inspired by God?. . .do u know what it means for something to be inspired?

We have various stories, myths, cultural, moral and traditional values that men created and attributed to the various concept of Gods they all imagined. No God has ever been shown to exists only man made stories, idea, traditions, cultural values and lifestyles. The existence of so many different religions and God concept like everything else shows that they are ALL man made.

That u do not subscribe to the ontological nature of God does NOT deny or dispute His existence. is there any piece of FACT in the above innuendos worth pondering over?

toneyb:
Yes, God or Gods do not exist all that exists are stories, culture, traditions, moral values and life styles that men created and ascribe to what ever form of God they choose or conceive.

these are the things i read that makes my belly ache . . . . . . .passing innuendos and absolute LIES as truth. . .shakes head

believe anything as long as it discredits God.

MyJoe:
And my response is: I disagree that a book should be accepted on faith because we know that faith can be misleading, considering the fact that there are sincere people of faith in all the religions of the world and they can’t all be right. Therefore, when considering which holy book to rely on, or, as in this case, the extent to trust it, we cannot afford to discard material evidence (and common sense!). That is, the Christian will do well to pay attention to the evidence, which will help him to see if the Bible is (1) infallible, and (2) does contain everything. This is important because if the Bible is not inerrant and does not contain everything there are consequences – (1) there may be biblical doctrines that are not true, (2) there may be non-biblical doctrines that are true.

who is we?

toneyb:
YES. Please read your bible. According to the bible the ancient jews were traveling in the wilderness with no were to go to and their tribalGod told them to attack and invade, It did not even say that they were provoked, they the land's of other people which was supposedly flowing with milk and honey because he had already given it to them as their own. It did not even say that they were provoked at all.

Noetic is all over the place as usual making a mockery of himself . Where does it say that the people of Israel were under attack? It says that they attacked others because they worshiped other gods,How does worshiping other gods equate to attack? . Please stop defending the absurd sIt only makes you look ridiculous. I have had this debate with honest people like Jesoul and her response was that she could not understand why Yahweh commanded all the unnecessary bloodbath. Even daivdylan just says that was how thing were during those days and rounds off with his usual allah did the same in the koran too why arent we criticizing allah mantra. These are honest people who see the actions for what they are and don't even try to justify them because they know that it is a waste of time to do so.

1. u need to to respect the difference in views. . . .I am NOT david neither am I Jesoul. . . .my views REMAIN my views, .that I do not agree with u or them does NOT make me dishonest.

2. what do u think Jesus is coming back to do? . . . , . to fight amageddon? that should rationally tell u, that what we perceive to be "wrong" in human context is JUDGEMENT in God's view. judgement has NEVER been pleasant.

Seun:
Denounce whatever he wants you to denounce, get your degree, and pick it up later. That is wisdom.

ur definition of wisdom is ridiculously wrong.

@ OP

Stick to ur belief. . .have faith . . .and ur faith will c u through.

Pastor AIO:
Eh hen, the preemptive strike argument.  The source of so many atrocities in the world.  It is okay to kill a child if that child is likely to grow up to become a mass murderer.  It is okay to kill a child if that child will one day have children that will grow up to be mass murderers.  In fact it is okay to kill a child if one of that child's grandchildren will one day befcome a mass murderer. 
God should havbe just killed ADam way back in the garden of Eden as that would have stopped a lot of mass murderers being born. 

THis is obviously the manner of thinking of the pathologically paranoid. Sick people. Practicing sick religion.

this is CLASSIC DUMB

1. The above scenario talks and make assumptions of a world order like now with civilizations, exposure and laws and order taken for granted. did the children of Israel simply invade neighbouring towns and start murdering their children?

2. it is simply ridiculous how u criticise policies taken to safe guard a nation from external or annihilative attacks. would u not justify counter-reactions from the FG if cameroon were to attack Nigeria? . . . .of course u will but will be foolishly unable to reconcile such with the plight of the COS under the leadership of moses.

3. is it not totally ridiculous to use the perceived inactions of the COS to ridicule an entire religion, . . . .how many xtians today carry guns to kill their neighbours?. . . or indulge in terrorist acts?. . . . .would I be wrong now to call u an unfortunate illiterate?

Krayola. . .doing what he does best. . . . . putting others opinion under scrutiny. . .but running for cover when fed the same pill

chi-baby:
noetic16 is a vampire

chi-baby is a mami-water

mabell:
With great faith, Frank and his wife Susan travelled to South Africa for the first time in their lives using all their savings. So, a 73yr old Frank arrived South Africa with faith in his heart.

so they used all of their live savings to get a miracle from chris oyakilome?. . . even within the curtain of the several CEC lies. . .u never miss ur exploitation trademark . . . , and why did they not receive their healing from the television?

shez feeling like a superstar

chi-baby is a blood sucking witch

@ myjoe

There are many reasons I will not reply the points you made, but I will state just a few of them: (1) I have already addressed some of them (2) Stuff about what you subjectively believe is theology which does not interest me in this thread, it is a derailment and I do not recall agreeing or disagreeing with you on any of them (2) Others smarter than me have tried to show you your error without success (3) Whatever I say you will do a summersault and come back with another seven point agenda, all decorated in bolekaja garbs, to lend credence to your opinion that all Bible was written for the “saved” (4) You already delivered your message long ago about those who must suffer in the afterlife.

lol. . , .I feel so humbled  . twas easy for u to antagonise my position. . , but u cannot stomach receiving criticisms/counter arguments for ur opinion   . .  .grow up.

But I will like to make the following observations:
i. Anybody who reads your allegation that I dismiss the Holy Spirit because some lied will wonder if it is what I wrote you are commenting on or something else.

would u like me to show u where and how u made the HS assertion?. . . . . .or do u have selective amnesia?

ii. Let others judge who is objective; but I do NOT want to be taken seriously by you.

. . . . . dont get me wrong. . . . .my request for objective analysis/argument, does not make u as a person un-objective.
as for taking u serious or not. . . . .regardless of ur beliefs or the difference in opinion. . .u remain an esteemed person.

P.S . . .  .by implying taking u serious. . . I meant ur argument and not ur person. I have no reason to impugn/cast aspersions on a person I do not know.

Mazaje sees a need for the COS to have a sense of defence and caution . . . , . yet he screams that they kill other people.
perhaps if he can separate his HATE for God. . .he can objectively see through this analogy.

Chrisbenogor:
NoetiYou are turning this thread on its head and I will not enable you. Is that what is biting you? eh?
Innocent women and children were hacked to death in the bible like jos, human morality has no space for that but your bible can accommodate it.

No I am not, but Chris if u cannot state the basis of ur comparison. . .then u subtly agree that ur opinion (as expressed in the OP) is based on ignorance

Pastor AIO:
There're too many fanatics.

Let's kill them all.

yea thats what the devil does. . . he kills

mazaje:
NO, You were made to believe that there is a god who inspired the bible by others. . . . .You don't have any evidence for your assertion all you have is your personal belief is ONLY as a result of  very long conditioning and indoctrination. . . . .

The above is FALSE.

I dont NEED any evidence to know/show that God inspired the bible. . .all I needed to do was accept the gift of salvation and accept the leadership of the HS. . . .who leads u to the inspired word of God (bible) and gives it a "real" meaning in ones life.

When then do Christians interprete the bible differently? We don't have to go to far, There are people here on NL like OLAADEGBUU who believe that you will rot in hell for not believing that the earth and the universe are 6000 years old. . .Tell me is it the same god that tells people like daidylan, vairo, debosky etc that the earth is not 6000 years old and that that kind of belief has nothing with the christian message of salvation? I know a lot of people like OLAADEGBU who tie the message of salvation with their own young earth creationist views. . . . .

did any of the above named persons (olaadegbu, david, viaro, debosky) tell u (mazaje) that their position and belief in the age of the earth is as a result of God's inspiration to them?

Is OLAADEGBU a fraud for tying his message of salvation to his young earth creationist views. . . .He believes that for you to be a true christian you have to be a YECnist. . . .

This is a complete misrepresentation of Olaadegbu's position of reconciling the age of the earth to salvation.
My understanding of his argument is that if u believe that the earth and all living things evolved, is of millions of years old . . . and was subsequently not created by God. . . . .u as well deny the salvation of JC. implying that u cannot on one hand accept Jesus and reject the fact that He made the world. . . .  .this is my understanding of his argument which is a far cry from the analogy u painted above.

I will reply to some of the points here but I have to take the girl friend out for dinner. . . .Will be back to post my rejoinder. . . .

I do await your usually informative posts 

mazaje:
Sorry there is NO god for me to "hate", there are only writings and stories that men wrote down for me to point to, criticize and condemn where I see that their actions are worthy of my condemnation. . . . .

ok. . .fair enough.

No, we wont put the issue of god aside since most of the wars they fought, they did so allegedly because their god told them to fight the other people as a result of worshiping of other gods by the other side. . . .

ok.

Yes. . . .

is this not a contradiction? . . , on one hand u agree that they should have a sense of defence. . .yet on the other hand u literarilly condemn their wars?. . . . . .

what intellectual analysis do u have for the war at Jericho . . . where the people of Jericho denied the children of Israel peaceful passage?. . .but rather chose to shut their cities. do u consider the wilderness habitable for people of such a huge number? do u not consider them open to attacks from all ends of the divide?

where EXACTLY have u drawn the line between a sense of defence and extremism?. . .cos given the scenario in discourse. . .there is NO such line.

Another lie. . .Where does it say in the bible that Moses and crew were fighting for survival of the fittest? In the bible the Jews were commanded by their tribal God Yahweh to go to war with others because he has given them the land of the other people since they had no land of their own or because they worshipped other gods or enticed his "chosen men" to worship other gods. . .Nothing like fighting to stay alive or survival of the fittest. . .It was mainly bacause they worshipped other gods or because Yahweh had delivered their lands which was flowing with milk and honey to his alleged chosen men. . . .I would have thought that a god that is all powerful and and all good can do all things will effortlessly and without bloodshed build a land flowing with milk and honey for his "chosen men" instead of allegedly telling them to go and steal the land of others, kill, despoil and despoil them. . . . .

1. mazaje, why exactly are we running round in a circle? If u believe that God asked moses to go fight wars and take up those lands as an heritage. . . . .why EXACTLY then are u screaming that some people got killed in the process of acquiring the promised land?. . . I just dont get ur drift any more.

2. I believe that if u at least attempt to remove ur hate for God. . . . .u would see the need for survival for millions of people who had just left slavery. . . .and this need of survival is only achievable through diplomacy or war. Since Jericho was offered a peace deal and they rejected it . . . . .were the COS (children of Israel) wrong to have taken the war option?. . . .a little intellectual honesty is needed here.

I said I will tell moses NOT to kill the innocent children and sacrifice them as a burnt offering unto Yahweh[b] because they are innocent. [/b]. . . .

what are they innocent of?. . . .innocent of the knowledge that their parents were killed by the COS? . . .are u serious at all?

Why do the prsent day IDF try as much as possible NOT to kill the children of those they wage war against for fear of the children coming back to till them when they grow older. . . . .

No offence intended. . . .but the above is plain ridiculous.
How can u compare present day war scenarios guided by laws and fought for ulterior moses with the scenario the COS found themselves?. . . . . .pls gimme a break

I thought the supposed creator of the universe , human moral values and all that is in it was the one commanding the jews and giving them injunctions directly?. . . .If humans today can make such civil laws I bet that the alleged creator of human morality will creater better civil laws of how to engage in wars instead of telling his "chosen men" to kill people, despoil them and sacrifice some of them as burnt offering unto him. . . . .

The above has no relevance to the thread.

mazaje:
I KNOW that people own their own for various reasons's sat down and wrote all the books of the bible, I don't want to use my self when disscusing these issues. . . .If there is a god that helps people to understand the bible then why are people interpreting the message of the bible VERY differently? Why are people HEAVILY relying on others to tell them what some passages mean if there exists a god that can do that himself to those that are truly seeking? All I see around are people self projecting themselves as god and making the bible to say or mean what ever they want it to say or mean. . . . .If there is truly a god that explains anything to people about the bible I doubt we will have the endless versions of Christianity we see around and the endless confusions we see around which is as a result of people interpreting the bible differently and claiming molopoly of understanding of what they believe the bible actually says. . . . .

Lets not mix the issues at stake here. . . . . . . . we know that

A. There is a God who inspired the bible
B. This same God helps His sons (for whom the bible was written) to understand the message of the bible
C. There are those who FRAUDULENTLY claim to be His sons (false prophets) and offer antagonising interpretations of the bible.
D. The fact that these false prophets (in C above) offer LIES and FALSEHOOD as God inspired biblical translation does NOT dispute B (that God enables His sons to understand this message)
E. God did NOT ask anyone to depend on anyone for the meaning of biblical injunctions. . . . . all He did was ask u to accept the gift of salvation.

This is your own personal interpertation and opinion. . , I know a lot of christians[b] that believe that you can not become a christian without understanding the word, plans and mind of god[/b] which they believe are contained in the bible. . . .Your opionion and what ever you chose to make of the bible and how you relate it to the christian life or christian belief system is NOT in any way better than theirs. . . . .

1. understand what word? the ever living and incontainable word of God , . or the revealed (bible) word of God. my dear, to be a Christian is simply to hav accepted the gift of salvation and to be led by the HS.

2. And is it ontologically contradicting for a xtian to state that all the plans of God are limited and contained in the bible?. . . this is to imply that God has no thoughts outside of whats in the bible? really ? . . . .does the bible give a graphic detail of the reign of JC?

The problem is that a lot of christians do not even know what to make about the issue of salvation anymore. . . .some believe that faith alone will lead you to salvation while others believe that works and faith will lead you to it. . . . .

and whats the difference between these two skools of thought?

There are some that even believe that unbelievers will be saved for some reasons they have formulated. . . .The confusion even amongts those that believe is endless. . . .

lol . . , is this where ur hope lies that u could still manage to make heaven?  

The christian hypothesis of a god that wants to save all of humanity is an epic FAIL because people will have to go and spread the so called message of salvation of an allegedly all powerful and all knowing god who can do all things to others. . . . .If there is an all powerful and all knowing god who can do all things as touted by the christians that created people and wants them all to get to know about him and his alleged salvation(which is nothing but a method of keeping people in line) sending other people to do the job will not be on his to-do list. .He can even make people know about him and his alleged plans for them right from when they come out of their mothers wombs. . . . .Christianity like every other invention of men will have to use men to spread its message which is nothing but some kind of cultural way of living and thinking invented by some people. . . . .

1. first u limit this same "all-powerful and all-knowing God" to the "container" of both ur imagination and understanding. what makes u think that it is believers and not God Himself who has been doing the evangelising? . . . . .read phillipians 2:13

2. it is also impossible to know God . .  .  .cos God cannot be "realistically" revealed to our limited sense organs. . .  God is spirit. The closest we can come to God is through the manifestation of JC . . .  .and a detailed relationship with Him

3. Salvation was designed by God (in human coinage) as a rational thing. That explains why u have no reason to be saved. . .and I have every reason to guard my salvation with my life.