₦airaland Forum

Krayola:
The old testament was not directed at the church. The church is a specific set of people who believe in salvation through Jesus. The Old testament does not mention Jesus, or the church. Your claim that the BIBLE, which is all the books in the canon, were written solely for the church is absolutely ridiculous.

what happened to ur glasses bro? . . I thought u saw this in my last post

. . . . .the OT was written for the jews. . .did the jews ever attempt to win new converts?

Paul's letters are not classified as Gospels. They were letters that eventually became recognized as authoritative. His letters and some of the other writings in the NEW TESTAMENT were directed at the church, not the entire Bible. So, yes, some of the books in the New testament were written exclusively for the community of believers, but not all.

which ones were not written for believers?. . .and whats the basis of such opinion?

The latter writings of the NEW TESTAMENT are obviously for the church. . . my objection to your claim was about the OT and the four canonical gospels. 

1. the four canonical gospels were not persuasive but were simply narrative. how then could they have been written for non-believers?. . .if they were persuasive in tone, then one would understand ur position. . . . .but all four (especially John) was narrative and authoritative . . .what then is the basis of assuming that the gospels were written to unsaved persons?

So it is only the letters that are bible, abi? Genesis is not bible, exodus is not bible, judges is not bible? I laugh in Catalan

was genesis written for non-Jews? . . , did the jews (practising judaism) ever attempt to win non-jewish converts?

@ OP

how can 14 million nigerians be atheists? . . . , .nigerians aint that dumb?

bilms:
u hv it, so show us, expose it, we are waiting

what else is there to say. . .a man who elevated an idol called allah (with 3 daughters and a wife) to the status of a "bigger god" . . .he killed people in the name of this god. . . .he had sex with a 9 year old, . , encouraged the killing of people with other beliefs. . , .disobeyed allah by marrying 11 wives . , . , and he dare calls himself a "prophet". . .what EXACTLY do u want me to say?

Krayola:
Define "False". What is its ontology?  

enjoy your humour. 

The church did not exist till  4+ centuries after the books of the Old Testament were written, how could they have been the intended audience? Where did u buy your ganja?   I need your dealer's number ASAP.

bro this is quite evasive. . . . . .the OT was written for the jews. . .did the jews ever attempt to win new converts? did they practise their religion exclusively?. . .who then were the first Christians?. . . . . .were they not jews? , , ,are u smoking ganja or what? 

Matthew Mark Luke and John. Good NEWS. News by definition is supposed to be spread. . . they were written to bring people to know about Jesus and his ministry.

1. u are being dishonest IMO. no one is disputing your definition of good news. the question is what was the intention of the letters?. . . , if they were written to unsaved people.  . . . . .why then were they addressed to churches?

Is the book of Timothy one of the Gospels?

is the book of timothy a BAD NEWS? 

Why spread News to people who already have the news? Why would u buy yesterday's or last year's newspaper?  

many people on hearing the preaching and offer of salvation from believers, they readily gave their lives to Christ. To further educate them and increase their faith, there was the need for teachings about the life and times of Jesus and the Godly life of a believer. These were the teachings that were written as letters and sent to the church by teachers who were separated to the church by distance,  . it is this letters that are today known as the bible.

MyJoe:
[b]On what basis do I accept the gift [/b]when I believe I already have something - Islam as revealed in the Quran? How do you know Christ died for you? Ever seen a lawyer present a brief without citing authorities?

That my dear is left to u. . .and ur decision dtermines what awaits u in the afterlife.

Are you reading what you are writing? Have you seen the Holy Spirit preaching in Bhutan or Tibet? And if, according to you, the Bible is addressed to those who are already saved, how does God reach the unsaved?

1. how does the HS teaching in bhutan or Tibet relate to the subject of discourse?

2. God reaches the unsaved by mandating the saved to reach out to the unsaved and share the good news. The bible remains a book of life for those who have received life. ur attempt to study the book of life, without having life in you is futile and leads to no where.

MyJoe:
I am a Shi'ite Muslim from Qom. I am also, PhD, physics, who like to analyse things. Noetic walks up to me and says "you, believe and be saved." "Believe in what?" "That Jesus, the son of God, also God, died for you". Ok

I would not just say that to you. . .I will highlight to u the essential components of sin and why the maker wants to establish an eternal reconciliation with u, . .the ultimate choice of accepting the gift of salvation then lies with u.

It is only after u have accepted this gift, that the study of the bible comes in. . that way u have the HS to help u out.

So the Bible is for those who are already saved. Lucky you born where the HS was active. Alright. Thanks for your input.

This is simply blasphemous. And also reflects ur understanding of God.
If u have no ontological understanding of God why pick up a bible?

Krayola:
My broda u dey yarn dust. The Hebrew bible (OT) has little to do with the "church". The Gospels were written to be spread and to PERSUADE people to accept Jesus. This your statement is so nonsensical, I wish u were in close proximity so that i can give you a flying drop kick. 

your assertions are FALSE.

1. who were the first Christians? . . .where they not the adherents of the OT via judaism? was the OT not refereed to as scriptures for the coming of JC?. . , . is the laws of moses not a particular dictate of xtianity. It is both false and dishonest on ur part to attempt to diconnect the OT from the church.

2. Name ONE gospel that was written to unbelievers? how was it written? by whom? how many copies were made?
bro, pick up a bible and u will see that all the gospels were addressed to different churches.

3. was the book of timothy written to persuade non-believers? or did John write hsi gospels to persuade non believers? or is it the canonical gospels?. . . . .I do not see a direct connection between the purpose of those books and none-believers. . . .if there is any, why not highlight them?

bilms:
then keep it to urself, or[b] what do u want to do about it? [/b]

simply expose the ignorance and gullibility of dudes like u.

@ MyJoe

Holy Spirit.  Undecided  Ok.

Please be informed that those who don't recognise the Holy Spirit, and who are not lucky enough to have him appear on their road to Damascus, will start with a practical approach. The Bible has to make some sense if they are sense anything in it. I, for one, will not accept anything on the basis of the Holy Spirit argument since there far too many claims of such. Moslems believe by faith that their book is the only truly complete one from God. What does that tell you? That the object of faith can be an empty shell.

1. The bible makes clear a practical approach to start with. . . . . .you are to believe and be saved. on believing u recieve the power to be the God's son. .  .that power is the HS. The bible then asserts that for as many as are led by th HS, they are the sons of God.

2. who are u? and why does the bible have to make sense to u or a muslim? . . .the bible was not written to entertain u or to serve as an alternate religion for historical explorers . . . . . , the bible was inspired to the church . . . . the church is a group of people who are saved. so who cares if u find the bible senseless?

3. whats the usefulness of a complete and perfect book. millions read the bible and remain in sin. . , others read the bible and remain confused and clueless. where EXACTLY did Jesus refer anyone to the bible for salvation? . . .the bible remains subject to several human ill-conceived interpretations, and God aint bothered by it.

4. The HS and Not the bible was sent to be guide to the saved heirs of God. To understand the bible and other secrets of the kingdom u need the HS.

bilms:
so what is your problem about that?

my problem is that I find it disturbing that a ridiculously false "prophet" called mohammed could tell such crazy lies.

estrella:
The bibles says that we should love our enemies and pray for them.In the face of the recent Jos crises and its aftermath of planned revenge schemes do you think that it is biblical that christians should fight back if caught in the cross fire of another religious crises? Or are they supposed to fold thier hands like stephen did and pray for the soul of our enemies while they are being hacked to death?

when u fight back violently , . , .u stop being a christian.

ROSSIKE:
Oh yes it does. If it weren't for the west's desire to acquire slaves and natural resources from West Africa, you would not be a christian today.

He ''gave us the spirit'' the minute he 'created' us.

God did not wait for white men to desire slaves 5000 years down the line before using them to ''reveal himself'' to us,  a mere 200 years ago. USE YOUR BRAIN - or what's left of it after the brainwashing you've been subjected to.


''Judging us'' in what sense? There's no ''lake of fire'' where God presides over screaming human beings being tortured for eternity, contrary to the garbage you read in your oversized Jewish book of nightmares.




How would you know what race those people were when you've not read a single work on Middle Eastern history?

And no, the bible doesn't count.


How do you know it's a lie?

And no, ''The bible told me otherwise'' is not an adequate response.


Everything in existence is an aspect of God. God afterall is the Creator of all that is, unless you believe there is another Creator.


I'm not referring to what ''Jesus mandated''. You obviously do not know this, but in 30AD there were hundreds of writers around the area ''Jesus'' is alleged to have been operating, and not one of them wrote a word about him, despite all he is reported to have done, including giving sermons to thousands of people, and being made subject to a public show trial and execution.

The works of those writers are around till today. They recorded even unimportant events, and yet for some reason, not a single word about a man that claimed to be the son of God and who supposedly raised the dead?

Come on. It's obvious to all but the brainwashed that the Jesus character of the bible is a fabrication, or at best, an allegory.

running round in a circle. . .and ur point is?

he Self-Service.s shamelessly 

iice:
[color=#9900ff]Erhhh ok, if you thought the message was for you

just sarcasm on my part . . . .how could the message be for me?

@ Topic

I am glad u agreed.

ROSSIKE:
Your first mistake is to assume that the bible god IS God.

There is actually no basis for this assumption. You're simply taking a group of Jews at their word, for reasons best known to you.

who then is God?

jagunlabi:
^^^^ I believe these two toxic religions should be criminalized and banned for the havoc they are both wrecking on mankind's psyche and spiritual sanity.Not to talk of the physical damage.

I believe folks like u who make uselessly ignorant assertions should be excluded from the "freedom of speech" rights.

virtuoso01:
Christians will say that God loves them, Muslims will say that God loves them. They are all creating confusion and hatred everywhere. I think this whole concept of religion should be banned.

when did Christians exclude u from the love of God?, . . . . the death of Jesus for u is a perfect example of God's love.

why not upload the video on youtube and give the link. . . . . . .youtube has a easy format for video uploads.

ROSSIKE:
noetic16 said:


Dude get real.

There's nothing so pathetic as an African flailing about for excuses for his own denigration.

FYI, the term 'Dog' is a very common Jewish term for Gentile. ''Jesus'' called the Canaanite (ie black) woman a dog.

Whether or not she was healed for her ''faith'' is immaterial, insofar as he wouldn't call a Jewish woman a dog. Get that  through your thick skull - doggie. (Wuff wuff!!)

why is her healing immaterial? , . . .why do u choose to disconnect her healing from the event that happened?. . .this is called intellectual DISHONESTY.

mabell:
@noetic16&Mrprsdent
pastor chris is a man sent from God
he is a vessel unto God
God has blessed lives through him
what im talking about here is the message he preaches
God's message preached through him
, CHRIST IN YOU, THE HOPE OF GLORY,
he didn't write that, it's in the bible
i think it's time you put aside all your emotions and start listening to his message with a clear heart
as for the links i will send it to you NOETIC16

I have seen, read and heard enough from "pastor" Chris to form an independent opinion.
As for the links just post them on this thread.

Nairaland offers anonymity . . , . real life does not.
If I were to express half of the religious views I have expressed on this forum in real life , . . . .a fatwa would have been declared against me. Nairaland is IMO just a platform for discourse. . . . and does not reveal my person.

would I even have a discussion with u in real life?. . .Nope.

arrant nonesense. giving glory to "pastor" Chris and not JC, . .pure idolatry.

and where is the link for the testimony? why does the man not have a picture? must lies be told to get new followers? when did quoting "pastor" Chris become the substitute for the scriptures . . . . . can u please spare me of this rubbish.

babaearly:
@noetic please can you explain what you said about life outside the garden of eden?ive been tryna find it in the bible

The Garden of Eden can best be understood as man's place of dominion. . . .God said to  man in Genesis 1:28 to be fruitful, multiply and have DOMINION. . . . . .dominion entails the ability to do "excellent things" and to have all other "things and events" under ones control.
while the bible never talks of God calling or blessing the garden as a land of dominion. . . .we could however see that while in the garden, all things that were created on earth for man were subject to the authority of Adam. . . .that includes plants and animals et all.

when man lost his place in the garden due to sin. .  . . it is debatable if man lost his dominion. but what we see is that life outside of the garden was chaotic and barbaric. Cain killed Abel, men were murderers, drunkards, fornicators and lived a very sinful life until the time of Noah. life outside of the garden was a life devoid of God and full of sin.

The bible calls satan the "prince of this world" (Ephesians 2:2). . . but this was not so in the garden of Eden. Since we know that God frequently visits Adam (in human coinage) in the garden. So deducibly ,  . , the world as we presently live in full of sin and unGodly inactions is a system of events that glorifies Satan and his kingdom. life in the garden, in which man had dominion and dwellth in harmony with nature remains the original intent of God and world of God.

The laws given to moses and The death and resurrection of JC is God's attempt to recreate the Godly world for mankind. A world without sin.

Tudór:
And this shyte is relevant, HOW??

its relevant by capturing ur innuendos, ill-conceived opinions (sold from the pit of hell), unGodly assertions and beliefs. . .and tracing them to their very origin. . .the devil. , father of all LIES.

wetin concern me with ur aproko?

thing, which thing? . . . . . so u dey talk say I no sabi make eba be that abi?

afiq:
@ noetic

the only 'holiness' the RCCG emphasizes is $$$money money money$$$ been there done that, i know their crap!!  

RCCG's financial policies and inactions is sickening. . . I am tempted to think Adeboye is not the financial head of the church.

REAL TRUTH:
@Noetic,,,Its not about emphasizing on Holiness,,,its about practising Holiness,,,why can't RCCG be like Deeper Life if truly they re emphasizing on Holiness,,,
RCCG has double standard(two sets of church),,,one is called classical and the other is called model parishes,,,however,,the model parishes seems to have overwhelmed the classical and as a result everybody wants to be in model parish because it actually attracts the worldly and the unholly,,,which is what Christ for though,,,
But my question is why would a church have two sets or standard one for the world,,,and the other for outward Holy people,,,
The sad and painful truth is that RCCG needs to go back from where it actually started from,,,we ve a situation in RCCG where a good number of their pastors re not even Born-Again,,,that forms the reason why some of the pastors ve 2 wives,,some re even criminals ,,,abeg forget story man,,,,

I get ur point. . , . . .but can we say that a church is responsible for its members behaviour?. . ultimately the life each individual member lives remains their choice. , .  . .but the inactions of pastors cannot be excused.

carpenter

wetin concern you for this matter?

@OP

Jesus Christ.

champion