₦airaland Forum

16) Where would you go to obtain information about the age of the earth and what is the currently accepted value of the age of the earth? How is petroleum fossils fuels derived and how long do you think it takes for organic material to become fossil fuel?

1. I would obtain the age of the earth from any source that can convincingly establish the way the earth originated. . .how we came to existence. . .and the very beginning of life itself.
So far. . . .the only source that answers these questions is the bible. . . . , have u got a better idea?

2. petroleum fossils are derived from decomposed organisms.

3. It is ASSUMED that it takes 650 million years. . .there is NO proof for this date though.

15) If you wanted the best scientific opinion about the structure of the atom, who would you contact and why? If you wanted the best scientific opinion about
blood diseases, who would you contact and why? If you wanted the best scientific opinion about the Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection who would you contact and why?

I would contact an expert in each field who knows his onions. . .and not a quack who uses google to buttress ridiculous assertions, . . . .simply because my time is precious to me.

13) If you were a follower of Jesus when Jesus was on earth and were present at his trial, would you have called for his conviction and execution or would
you have called for his exoneration.

and what is the relevance of this question?

12) Jesus said that those who believed in him and are baptised will be saved. How about those who have never had the chance of "knowing" about Jesus?
How about your foreparents 1000 years ago - want dispensation will they have?
If Jesus was to come today - how about the millions of children and infant who are not able to believe and be baptise, would they end up in hell?

1. prior to the coming of Jesus . . . there was NO mention of the after-life/eternity for anyone. All men died and it ended there.

2. Jesus ALONE geve the promise of eternity. . .John 14:3

3. When Jesus died the bible records Him as going into the grave to offer His salvation to the dead. . . .and He resurrected the dead in God.

4. So if ur fore-fathers were fortunate to accept the salvation of Christ in hades, , . then cheer up, they are with Christ. . .otherwise they are with captain satan.

5. God is a righteous and merciful God . . . , .He would not put to judgement children who are unable to decipher right from wrong.

11) Do you and other Christians abide or try to abide by the injunctions of Jesus? Amongst a few nice and subtle words utter by Jesus, he also said
some very controversial words such as

i) Calling for followers to abandon their families for his sake. He said "I have come to set brother against father, mother against daugther". Are you in good family relation with your family?
ii) He called for his followers fo maim themselves in other not to fall prey to certain types of sin? Is this a sensible way of avoiding sin/crime?
iii) He called for his followers to not resist oppression from aggressors. Would you give a robber you coat if he only wanted to rob your wallet?
iv) He called for his followers to not make plans for tomorrow? Do you organise your life in this fashion? If not, why not

i. Families are to be forsaken if they serve as a hindrance to ur salvation. . . .Peter had a wife whom Jesus healed. . . . Jesus brother and mother were amongst the recipients of the Holy spirit on the day of pentecost. why did peter not abandon his family? why did Jesus not abandon his family? why did ur christian parents not abandon u?
. . , . . . . . , only those who prevent ur salvation should be abandoned. . . . .thats the implication of Christ's teaching.

ii. do u have a better idea as to how a person should avoid sin?

iii. . . . , Go and read mathew 6:25-34. , . . . .u have no idea what Jesus was talking about.

iv. I believe that ur concerns about the "plans" Jesus mentioned has been addressed on another thread. . . . here is a catch of my answers there

b. I go to school to get educated, be informed and be able to rationally form an opinion, logically conceive a thought and make intellectual analysis, , . . .why did your Christian parents send u to school?
c. my job is a fulfilment of a craving for expertise. . . . .there is no where Jesus suggested that Christians should not work. , .Jesus was a carpenter, . . . .were your christian parents idle?
d. I keep my money in my bank account, . . . . . . keeping a huge amount of cash at home is not commonsensical . . . . .or is it?.

10) When was Jesus crucified? Was it on the day before passover or the day of passover?

1. Jesus died and resurrected on the third day. . . . . .thats not in dispute

2. The first 3 gospels record a series of events that took place from the eve of the passover. . . . . is it possible for all these events to take place in one day and not leaping to the next day?

3. finally read Matthew 26:2 and John 19:31. . .what are ur deductions from these verses?

4. the four gospels say Jesus rose on sunday. . . . .so when do u think He died?

9) The birth narrative of Jesus. When was Jesus born? Was it on or before 4BCE as reported by Matthew or after 6CE, in the reign of Quirinius, as
narrated by Luke?

I dont recall the bible mentioning dates? can u help me out on this?

8.) The genealogy of Jesus. Was jesus's grand-father Jacob (Matt 1:1-16) or Levi (Luke 3: 33-38). Why are the genealogies in Luke and Matt so divergent with little or no correspondence? One has 27 generations to David and another has about 43. By the way, what is the point of proving that jesus was a descendant of david when he is alleged to not be genetically linked to david (virgin birth)? If jesus DNA was available today, what would an analysis reveal about his parentage?

1. Matthew shows the genealogy of Jesus from Mary His mother. . . His earthly parentage clearly indicates a virgin birth, as such mary's genealogy is illustrated to establish the lineage of Chrsit to David.

2. Luke clearly states in Luke 3:23 that the genealogy it is stating is based on the presumed ASSUMPTION by the Israelites that Joseph is the father of Jesus.

3. So while Jacob is the grand father of Mary, Levi is the grand father of Joseph.

4. It is important to state that Jesus is a descendant of David to serve as a fulfilment of the prophecy that the messiah shall be of the lineage of David.

5. As for His DNA analysis. . . I would leave u to make ur assumptions.

7) Why does God call for the stoning of Children if they were disobedient to their parents? Is this something you would do?

Maybe u should ask God Himself. . . . . .notwithstanding, my understanding is that they were disobedient.
The NT does not call for that. . .or does it? else why did ur christian parents not stone you?

6) Where did sin originate? The bible paints the view that sin originated in god's own kingdom with the disobedience of Lucifer. Does this mean that
Adam and Eve were really not responsible for sin and that sin has always existed? If so, how can we be sure that God is capable of dealing with sin
given that his own kingdom is not free from sin?

1. Sin is NOT an entity. . . .sin is the transgression of the law. . , .sin is the absence of Love. A sin can take place ANYWHERE onces a person/being chooses to disobey/disregard the prevailing laws in that place.

2. Lucifer transgressed against the laws of God, hence he sinned. . . . .how is that a problem with God?

3. Adam and Eve commited a sin called DISOBEDIENCE.

4. Adam and Eve received a word of wisdom and a commandment with regards to the tree of life, they disregarded this word of wisdom and ate of the tree. . . .the commandment was not to eat of the tree. . .the words of wisdom was the consequences of eating/not eating the tree. . .they made their choices and lived by the consequences.

5. The bible never said Adam and Even INVENTED sin. . .the bible says through them sin came to the world. . .as such all have sinned.

6. God's capacity to deal with sin has never been in question. . .all that is required of u is to submit urself to His spirit.

Question 5. . . , 

5)  Why are there plenty of contradictions in the bible?

define a "contradiction" ?,  ,  .  .I did not write the bible So I cant tell u why

mazaje:
"Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it[/b]. [b] Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)

How do you guys read your bibles?

please dont irritate me with ur folly. . .how many times has the RUBBISH above been addressed? like I said. . .why not just be an observer. . , . , .

mazaje:
This is lie number one. . .is this your own opinion as you have said before or is this what the bible actually says?

I thought you just said that the bible is not a historical guide? Where did you get that lie from? Have you read the books of kings and chronicles? Have you ever read the hebrew bible to see how it is divided?

Where in the bible does it say so?. . . . . .Why do so many christians literary interpret the prophecies?. . . . Why are the wrong. . . is it a different holy spirit that inspires them?

Where in the bible does it say this?. . . .Where does it say in the bible that tha narratives should be taken literary and the prohecies not literary? Have you read the gospel of matthew?

Is this your own opinion or is this what your bible says? What about people who say they have the holy spirit and it teaches them to take the statements for their literal value why are they wrong?

The OT CLEARLY says that the Laws came directly from the OT god himself but Paul who was preaching about a new religion and a new god different from the OT god lied when he said that the laws did not even come directly from the OT god but was put forth through angels. . . .(Galatians 3:19)



I think you are clearly deluded. . .What do you know about astronomy? What was keeping the earth and other planets in orbit before the sun was created on the 4th day of creation since the bible says that the earth was created before the sun?. . .Was the earth really created before all the stars were created on the 4th day?. . .have you ever looked through a space telescope before?. . .Do you realize that most christian astronomers say that the creation myth should be taken as allegory? have you ever wondered why?. . .Are the stars really created for signs? . . .How does a rock(moon) rule the night? its very clear that the bible god does not even know the importance of the moon and the role it place on the planet, the bible god said he created the moon to rule over the night . . . the moon's gravitational pull is what cleans the oceans and the tides as science has shown it does not rule any night. . .do the writers of the bible know that there are trillions of stars that have planets orbiting around them when they said that the stars will fall into the earth when jesus will come?. . .do they really know what the stars are when they said the stars fought along side humans in wars?


This is false because every religion has its own creation myth. . . . .Have you read about the creation accounts by other god. . like the greek, chinese African and indian gods?. . .

It is very clear that your god does not know that some animals and plants reproduce asexually. . . . .did your bible god curse female animals too when he told the mythical eve that she will give birth to her children in pains. . .do you know that animals also give birth to their young ones through a painful process like humans? have you ever seen a goat in labour?. . .did you god also curse the femal animals too? . . .so irrigation, farming etc are all evidence for creation . . . . Neotic my man. . .I love this guy. . . .

You did not make any thorough analysis of anything you just embarrassed yourself. .Toneyb completely destroyed all your ridiculous arguments. . .

More deluded cries and fear mongering. . .Do you have any evidence for this myth?. . . any evidence to show that heaven or hell exist out side the bible and its selling point?. . .Do you have any evidence to show that there is a part of human existence that survives bodily death? Any evidence for the soul?. . . .Do you know what "real" means?. . .The sun is real. . .things are real ONLY when they can be verified. . .Where is your evidence for this mythical heaven and hell?. . .

do me a favour. . . stay clear of the thread or open a new thread for discussion. . .u are a distraction.

Question 2

2) If there is a God, what is his ontology? How is he/she constituted? Other secondary characteristic commonly assocaited with God are

a) Omnipresence
b) Omniscience
c) Omnibenevolence

How do you reconcile these attributes with;

i) The presence of natural evil and suffering in the world
ii) God not knowing that Abraham was faithful and had to put him through the ordeal of attempted sacrifice of his son to test him. Does this bode
with omniscience?

Your first statement shows that u have an opinion on the existence or non-existence of God. . . . . I would like u to answer my first question in my own list of questions before I answer this, . , it was designed to access the rationality of ur belief system. , . .my answer to this questions defeats the purpose of my question 1.

Question 3. . , .

3) Why is there a great deal of unwarranted bloodshed orchestrated by God in the bible? Why would a loving God rejoice in dishing out barbaric
punishment to his beloved children? The murder of whole tribes, with their innocent infants and animals is ordered by God and carried out by his followers.
Why is such cruelty ordered by God? Why does God call for human sacrifice, ordered or compelled cannibalism and make people eat excrement?

Your concerns have been repeatedly addressed, . . .

1. Simply replace the children of Israel with today's believers and replace the bloodshed victims with unbelievers. The OT is a manifestation of the NT covenant. . . . . there would be such garnishing of teeth and bloodshed in hell for those who reject the gift of salvation.

2. 99% of the OT killings were in acts of war. . . I dont understand why the Israelites should be defenceless when there was no law from God establishing that.

3. human sacrifice is NOT contained in ANY of God's commandments.
a. Isaac was not offered to God.
b. God did not ask for a human sacrifice from Jephtah. , . . . he made a pledge and when the ridicule of his pledge became obvious, his daughter did not refuse or rebuke him. . . . .she willingly allowed that she be sacrificed.
c. There is NO law, commanment or injunction from God in the OT that allows for human sacrifice. Neither is there a priestly precedent.

4. God promised to ensure that idolators and enemies of His kingdom become cannibals. . , . . .His ability to do this reflects His omnipotence. . . . is there a problem or conflict with this declaration by God?

Question 4. . . .

4) Why are the 10 commandments given in Exodus 34 so vastly different from those given in Exodus 20, given that Exodus 34 were supposed to be a
replacement of those that Moses broke in Exodus 20? Did God lose his mind when it came to re-writing what he had written only a few days earlier?

1. God asked Moses to come and receive the commandments again. . . that was his purpose of ascending to the mount.

2. when moses got to the top of the mount he did something else, (due to the events that happened in previous chapters). . .in verse 8 moses worshipped God and in verse 9 of exodus 34 moses made a request from God. . . . .all that God said from verse 10 of Exodus 34 was in response to what moses requested.

3. from verse 1 we know that God asked for moses to bring up new tablets for the 10 commandments to be re-written. , . . , in verse 32-34 moses was speaking commandments which were not written on the tablets to the children of Israel.

4. It is as such deducible that the commandments in exodus 34 are as a result of the request moses made in verses 8 and 9. . .not with standing the purpose for which moses went on the mount (which was to retrieve the 10 commandments) was also achieved.

My questions:

1. You are an atheist cos u believe in the non-existence of Jehovah God,  . . .the subject of your belief/disbelief is Jehovah God. ,   .so I ask
a. who is Jehovah God? what is His Ontology? what part of this ontology do u find impossible to gasp? what part of His ontology ascribes the notion of nihilance to Him?
note: your ontological definition must lay emphasis on His meta-physical attributes.
b. what is your scientific evidence that establishes that God does not exist?
c. where is your intellectual or logical evidence that supports your belief/disbelief?
d. do u understand that a lack of evidence for your belief/disbelief means that all u have is FAITH in the nihilance of God? are u aware of the consequences of this dogmatic faith? what makes u different from the Christians who u accuse of having a blind faith?

2. You have repeatedly advocated evolution as the source of life as we know it today. . .so I ask
a. the commonest law of biogenesis says life begets life. Biology buttresses this.
Yet evolution claims that the first substance of life were formed from non-living substances refered to as "spontaneous generation". is this not a contradiction?
b. Darwin claims that all organisms on earth are descent from a common ancestor or a last universal ancestor.Whats the atheist's explanation for the mitochondria gene exception? what is the identity and nature of the last common universal ancestor?
c. Evolution traces life to phylogenetic tree that that postulates three domains of life namely bacteria, archea and eucaryota. What is the major consensus or common denominator to whom life can be traced to between these three?
d. Evolution claims that increasing complex chemical reactions that resulted from simpler chemical reactions are the last traces of life.
what was the singular first chemical reaction that kick started life? and what were the substances that made up this reaction? what was the structure of the first living things? what was the catalyst of this first chemical reaction? what were the components of this catalyst?
e. with regards to the pioneer formation of the RNA? how did it happen? which was the very first? what was its structure?
f. Since evolution is believed to be a continuous process. . ,  . .what has/will man evolved to, since man evolved from an ape?

3. a. Is your trust/belief in science based on FAITH or based on science? whats the difference between faith and science? have u ever observed evolution? do u know the difference between faith and evolution?
b. where did human attributes and abilities like art, music, religion and sports evolve from?. . . . .please dont mention cranial evolution.
c. what is ur explanation for man's ability to use "MEDIUMS" to decipher the past and predict the future?
d. Is absence of proof the same as proof of absence? is there a slight possibility that the existence of something cannot be known?

I would answer each of your questions per post,  . ,  .  .

Question 1.

1)   What is the criteria for deciding which parts of the bible should be read literally and which parts metaphorically or allegorically?  The background
to this question is the widely held view in christian religions circles that many parts of the bible should not be read literally.  Examples are
a)  The Creation narratives
b)  The notion of heaven and hell
c)  The world (was it meant the entire earth or a restricted part of the middle east) during the flood or when the devil
took Jesus up a high mountain so that they could see the whole whole

Are these to be understood literally or allegorically and by what criteria?

Before attempting to interpret the bible, one must ask what was the purpose for which the bible was written?
The OT and NT were written to serve as an informative guide to the adherents of God's commandments. . .It was not written to serve as a proof for the existence or nihilance of God. . . .neither was it written to serve as an alternative to science or as an historical guide. . . . .the bible was written to be a spiritual guide to the adherents of God's commandments in all generations.

That not withstanding . . . . . .The bible can be seen from quite a few angles,   . namely
a. the prophetic angle,  . . , refers to bible prophecies like the books of Isaiah, Daniel, Nehimiah et all Note that there is a huge difference between a prophecy, word of wisdom and a confession.
b. narrative angle. . . . .refers to the narration of events like the exodus, abraham lineage stories, books of samuel, judges et all
c. confession angle,  . . . .refers to confessions made by believers in God in the bible. . . .note that there is a huge difference between a confession and a prophecy
d. gospel angle and NT covenant,  . . . . .the Gospel of Jesus Christ as found in the NT
e. The laws and OT covenant. . . .  , this refers to the OT commandments and priestly traditions as found in the books of exodus-deuteronomy

aa. The prophetic angle CANNOT be literarily interpreted. . . . .it requires inspiration and spiritual knowledge. . . .that explains the many various versions of prophetic interpretation.

bb. The narrative angle SHOULD be taken literarily. . . . . .

cc. Confession angle. .  . . .it is what it is, a confession made out of faith to God. . . . .the answer to this is at the discretion of God.

dd. The gospel is as simple as it comes. . . . however it is worth noting that Jesus exclusively said certain things to a chosen set of disciples, many of which are written in the bible. . . . this statements CANNOT be taken for a literal value as they contain significant meanings dennotable only by insightful teachings.

ee. The laws of the OT are from God. . . . they are summarised in the NT to simply imply LOVE . . .which is the crux of what Christ taught.

1. The creation narrative is an interesting piece. while no one was there when God made the earth and its components as stated in the OT. . .it is worth noting the proclamations of God in genesis have been significantly true and irrefutable even till today.

The alternatives to God's creation has been evolution. . . . .I will however emphasize on creationism as stated by God.
the proclamations/actions of God that are relevant till this day include the following facts that God decreed
a. sexual reproduction. . . . .causing man and beast to be fruitfull and multiply
b. irrigation, rainfall for farming and other farming techniques. . .  , which are till today very relevant.
c. curses about child birth et all

I made a thorough analysis of this on a thread called "NOETIC2 EXPLAINS WHY GENESIS IS MORE CREDIBLE THAN SCIENCE", but cant get the link to that thread now.

2. Heaven and hell was not promised anyone prior to the coming of Jesus. Before the coming of Jesus, when a man dies it is over. . .  .but Christ came with the promise of eternal life with Him. hell was also NOT created for man, but for condemned angels. . .  . .  .but under the new covenant in Jesus, all those who reject the gift of salvation are condemned and have subsequently chosen hell as a home. . . . heaven and hell is real. . .it aint a joke.

3. The world is different from the earth. the world is the system of things as we see it today. . . the earth is the physical components of this planet many of which u call nature.
So. . .  .just see it as it is. . . the Jesus temptation falls under the narration category. . .i believe that I made a case for that already.

YES. . . , but as soon as u tell me "I DONT KNOW" then there might be no point asking another question. . . , .or?

huxley:
Are you gonna post your own 20 questions? Yes or NO? Just a one-word answer I want. Yes or NO?

why is my answer so important? let us start with urs. . . . . .post ur questions. . . I will then open a thread for my own questions. . . . . .

pass-hug

and?

shez a nutty grl . ,

cold hug

am I allowed to say yes?

I will be looking forward to that thread. . . . .but why are all my threads on mohammed usually locked?

I dont see you answering 20 questions from me. . . . . , but I will indulge you.

so lets get rolling. . .

huxley:
What is the difference between the following:

a) You?

b) Your Father?

If you know the answer to my question, you will be able to figure out the answer to your own question.

The Son of God simply means GOD. . . . . .read John 10:31-33

huxley:
Have you got your ready? It takes a while to come up with 20 questions. Are you also gonna post your 20 questions? Cuz I would really hate to have to accuse you of being a liar, as honorable a Christian as you are?

Are you also gonna post 20 questions?

that would be suicidal for you . . .u CANNOT survive 20 questions from me. . .just present ur own 20 questions. . I am waiting. . .

where are ur 20 questions?

huxley:
Jesus lied many times, including claiming to be at once time the Son of God and later God himself. So he impersonated the Son of God and God.

whats the difference between statements A and B?

A. Son of God

B. God

where are ur 20 questions?

huxley:
The answer is wrong. Just because you say something does not make it right. If you had found similar discrepancy in the koran, you would be sticking it up the eyes of the muslims, wouldn't you? Christians just don't like being shown things like this. Well you have got to learn to take. It is there in you bible in several places - Jesus caugth lying multiple times.

any instances? . . .why cant u state who Jesus impersonated? should I assume that u are both lying and deceptive?

huxley:
Look at it again:

28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Who was Jesus addressing with this speech? People "standing here" and listening to him, about 2000 years ago. Why did Jesus lie, nah.

I believe ur question has been answered. . , , .who did Jesus impersonate?