₦airaland Forum

IMAliyu:
The bolded does not even make any grammatical sense, I hope I'm not the only one that has a hard time deriving any meaning from that sentence. Lordreed, OP Steep can you help, I hope I'm not just impared here.

On the subject of offense. You think too much of yourselves, to think me clarifying a misconception is an attack on you (Bible literalists). If it's an attack, then I don't think it's exclusive to just Bible believers, it extends to every religious literalists out there.

"A correction, humans are still apes, what evolution states is all apes descend from a common ancestor. The evidence for this is the genetic data, anatomical similarities between all apes, and fossil findings."
I assume the quoted is the cause of your discomfort.

You claim evolution is a lie in light of my statement above, so let's examine it. My problem is you did not display any science literacy the last time we had this discussion to even get anywhere.

"humans are still apes" the definition of ape is in one of the last mentions. Is the statement a lie based on that definition? or provide a different definition if the one I provided is false.
If you don't like it and want to challenge the categorization of humans as apes. A career in Taxonomy awaits you.

"All apes descend from a common ancestor" mind explaining where the lie is about this statement?
A question you avoided last time, "do you consider paternity tests to be reliable (real)?" We accept that through DNA tests we can tell the father, grandfather of a child and that DNA is reliable source of information to determining biological relations and ancestry that extends to family, to tribe/ethnicity, to race, and ultimately to a species and that the amount of 'genetic divergence' present within each of the subgrouping increases with each level higher. Meaning the genetic similarity of isolated groups decreases overtime (due to mutation, and selection pressures), but the percentage of existing similarity shows a shared lineage that branched off.

In simple terms you share more genes in common with your fellow tribes man, than with let's say a man from Mongolia, but your genes would still be close enough for both of you to be humans (homo sapians) and points to you sharing a common ancestor.
Or say the different types of ants, and their similarity with certain other insects.

Now that I've explained all that, "all apes share a common ancestor"
Do humans not share Genetic similarities of up to 96% with specifically chimps and bonobos for example. At the same time being the only living creature with which humans have the most common anatomical features with?
And this percentage keeps dropping with each step back or away in the taxonomical grouping one would take.
This all points to a common ancestry for all life on this planet.

From the facts established, would you still make the 'common creator' argument?

Because life doesn't seem static, but ever changing and morphing, we haven't witnessed a supernatural entity create a new life in isolation, all observation point to biological life emerging and differentiating from already existing life.
Covid19 didn't pop into existence from nowhere, but was a strain of already existing Corona viruses in animals, that mutated and learned to attack human tissue.

Let me make another clarification on evolution I've noticed. Evolution doesn't claim the origin of life (that's a different theory), but the origin and diversity of species.

XXXXTENTACION:
the last time I checked we have only one world....

Originakalokalo:
There has always been a conflict between the believers of science and those who believe in God.

However, this conflict is not needed...

For instance, the Hebrew boys in the book of Daniel were regarded to be skillful in science.

“Children in whom was no blemish, but well favoured, and skilful in all wisdom, and

cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, and such as had ability in them to stand in the king's palace,

and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans.”
— Daniel 1:4 (KJV)


This shows that God gave them knowledge to observe, experiment and make conclusions.


Now,

God created the sun while science probed and explain it's principle of operation.

If the Sun will be self-sufficient and operate continuously, then it must function on a principle....

Explaining the principle of its operation does not remove the fact that it was created.

The same applies to the rain, sowing and reaping, seasons and weather. All these happen continuously and timely.

A child of God may believe in Science....he/she should however be aware of the danger of believing everything science says....

I will mention why......

budaatum:
Unfortunately, as soon as you said "believers of science" you set a red flag for bulls.

Science is antibelief. And anyone who believes science is treating it like a religion, which it isn't.

What's sad is science is taught like a religion in Nigeria, and that's why we invent very little.

Science is ask and seek and knock with all your heart and soul and mind and being until you actually know, instead of ignorantly believing what you are religiously told.

Genesis 1 is simply very primitive superseded science. Believing it is like believing pre Copernican science, or pre Ptolemy.

LordReed:
Why does a god as powerful as you say need to create a universe that requires laws and principles? Why not just create a universe where anything can happen?

XXXXTENTACION:
The key word is "imagine" you can only imagine it but it does not exist...

Everything that exists has a creator now who created God ?

XXXXTENTACION:
How did God come into existence....
did God come out of nothing...

Workch:
I don’t know if the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn’t exist, if I have to accept your narrative, I will also accept theirs.

I’m an convinced theirs is more correct than yours at least they presented some statistics and data

Dtruthspeaker:
Madman don open mouth again oo oo oooh!

Madman don start to mad again O!

XXXXTENTACION:
If they was a creator what makes you think that creator is God...

SporaD8:
Please kindly enlighten us on the difference between value and purchasing power of a currency

Ademola47:
Every Nigerian is expected to have 4 National means of Identification, namely:



Now, how many of it do you have?

Me I have just 2.

PS: Pictures were gotten randomly from Google to put things into perspective.

Janosky:
4 Questions for you:
Luke 24:4 are the two men humans?- That verse didn’t say.

John 17:5 & Phil 2:7 did Jesus have that glory as a man?- those verses show he was divine but took human form.

John 17:24, will Jesus be given back the glory as a man?-You tell me please. We are not disputing the glory and divinity of Jesus Christ. If you go that route, then we can imply Jesus was just divine all through his years on earth.


Luke 24:25 & Phil 2:9-10,will Jesus enter the glory as a man?

Please see below how Jesus showed his hierarchy while on earth: man-angels-son-father.
So his supremacy and divinity is not called into question.

These verses did not counter the fact that Jesus resurrected in his bodily form and was witnessed same by his disciples and a 500 others in human form. See 1 Cor 15:2-5

“But of that day or that hour knoweth no one, not even the angels in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:32‬ ‭ASV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/12/mrk.13.32.asv

Ayomide811:
Shame on ipob terrorists that couldn't successful destabilize this election despite their online noise

SlyDev:
Peter Obi is only mighty in alaigbo but he is paperweight in Nigeria

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus is Michael (Archangel) though he was the only creature directly created by God, that's why he's referred to as the only begotten son of God {John 3:16} as the first creature in God's image he himself is a god {John 1:1} he was the one and only person with God before the creation of all other things! John 1:2; Colossians 1:15-16

During the creation of all other things God used Jesus like his master employee to do many things {Proverbs 8:22, 30} of all the works God used Jesus to create the most appealing to Jesus is humans! Proverbs 8:31

That's why Jesus often feel pained whenever humans suffer, he purposely came to gather the lost sheep of the house of Israel for a special arrangement {Matthew 15:24} but Satan has done a lot of homework on the Jews so by the time Jesus arrived as the promised Messiah his own people have been thoroughly brainwashed to the extent that they rejected him! John 1:11, 9:22

But few amongst the Jews put faith in him and Jesus was overjoyed at least Satan is put to shame {Luke 10:18} so when Jesus now saw how his own friends who have put faith in him were crying just because of DEATH that will soon be conquered (Isaiah 25:8; Revelation 21:3-4} Jesus couldn't just stand it anymore that's why he gave way to tear! John 11:35

He cried not only because his faithful friends were suffering due to the sin of Adam and Eve, but he felt the long years that still lies ahead that his obedient children (by faith) will have to bear the pains of loosing their loved ones just as Mary and Martha were agonized at the death of their brother Lazarus!

Emusan:
Still didn't get the point,do you?



But Seun is a MEMBER?
The same God who heaven is His throne and EARTH His footstool....

It's evident you don't understand the OP

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus died and was resurrected but his friends can't recognize him, then he only appears and disappears randomly, they never knew where he is staying after his death and resurrection.
So go and meditate on this, whatever you conclude use it to preach and teach whoever comes your way. As for millions having the same line of thought globally {John 17:22} what i'm telling you is the interpretation that the spirit guiding our global family taught us! John 16:12-13
It's not compulsory you and i agree on interpretation of what we can both read, you're free to worship with those that have the same line of thought with you while i also worship with those with whom i share the same line of thought! John 4:24; 1Corinthians 1:10

Thanks for sharing your time with me!

MaxInDHouse:
Let me not put you in a tight corner!

Jesus' resurrection wasn't in human form!

First of all, remember that his body became unrecognizable even by his former closest confidants {Luke 24:15-16} then he couldn't sleep in anyone's home after his resurrection which spirits also don't do. Luke 24:28-30

So Jesus only put on materialised body to prove that the spirit person who came from heaven, born by a virgin, executed and buried is now alive, as for his former body which they knew and can easily recognize that's what he used as the sacrifice for our sin, it is no more retrievable. He only put on all those wounds to convince Thomas who at the time is yet to understand spiritual things. Jesus was buried in a corruptible body (one that's damageable) but was resurrected in incorruptible body (one that can't be damaged) it's human bodies that can be damaged the body with which Jesus resurrected is spirit (body that can't be damaged)

So it is with the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised up in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor; it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised up in power. It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. 1Corinthians15:42-44

So Jesus' resurrection wasn't in the physical body but spiritual body, he only materialised bodies that can be seen, felt and touched to convince his friends who are yet to grasp what was happening. It was after they were baptized with Holy Spirit that they began understanding all these things! John 16:12-13

MaxInDHouse:
Let me not put you in a tight corner!

Jesus' resurrection wasn't in human form!

First of all, remember that his body became unrecognizable even by his former closest confidants {Luke 24:15-16} then he couldn't sleep in anyone's home after his resurrection which spirits also don't do. Luke 24:28-30

So Jesus only put on materialised body to prove that the spirit person who came from heaven, born by a virgin, executed and buried is now alive, as for his former body which they knew and can easily recognize that's what he used as the sacrifice for our sin, it is no more retrievable. He only put on all those wounds to convince Thomas who at the time is yet to understand spiritual things. Jesus was buried in a corruptible body (one that's damageable) but was resurrected in incorruptible body (one that can't be damaged) it's human bodies that can be damaged the body with which Jesus resurrected is spirit (body that can't be damaged)

So it is with the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised up in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor; it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised up in power. It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. 1Corinthians15:42-44

So Jesus' resurrection wasn't in the physical body but spiritual body, he only materialised bodies that can be seen, felt and touched to convince his friends who are yet to grasp what was happening. It was after they were baptized with Holy Spirit that they began understanding all these things! John 16:12-13

Workch:
Christian god doesn't exist without evidence.
If you provide evidence I will change my mind

Workch:
Christian god doesn't exist without evidence.
If you provide evidence I will change my mind

MaxInDHouse:
Below is what you said:



Three persons visited Abraham and they ate food! according to Paul these three persons were angels (spirits), Hebrews 13:2

That's why i asked the question!

MaxInDHouse:
So Abraham hurried to the tent to Sarah and said: “Quick! Get three measures of fine flour, knead the dough, and make loaves of bread.” Next Abraham ran to the herd and chose a tender and good young bull. He gave it to the attendant, who hurried to prepare it.  He then took butter and milk and the young bull that he had prepared and set the food before them. Then he stood by them under the tree as they were eating. Genesis 18:6-8

The three visitors eating, were they humans or spirits putting on materialised bodies? Hebrews 13:2

Workch:
WE have numerous fallacies that religious people often commit, it seems to me that one attribute of a religious person is their total lack of philosophy and logic knowledge, hence the inability spot logical fallacies in their points. Of the many fallacies that they commit, I will list 10.

1. Appealing to Ignorance
e.g.
i. No one knows how the universe actually started hence god must of done it.
ii. We don’t have the ability to know everything, there are some things that are beyond our understanding.
Logical position: Becasue we don’t know now doesn’t mean we won’t find out tomorrow. Ignorance of the topic is not evidence for god.

2. Fallacy of begging the question.
E.g.
I. Noah’s flood is right because the Bible said it.

Logical position: You can’t use the Bible to say the claims of the Bible is right, you have to find evidence to justify those claims outside of the Bible.

3. Argumentum ad Arboretum.
E.g.
I. Everything you see around you is evidence for god, the trees, planets and all of nature. They cannot exist on their own.

Logical position: The existence of nature is evidence that nature exist and not for god.

4. Appealing to authority
E.g. Newton was a Christian and he said scientists are only discovering the works of the creator.
Logical position: did newton provide evidence for this claim? If he didn’t then we will only take those things he provided evidence for and wait for evidence others to suffice.

5. Tu quoque (whatabaoutism)
E.g. Science is also based on beliefs, hypothesis are made from beliefs.

Logical position: Whether or not science is based on beliefs, it’s not evidence that a god exist. (Budatum committed this fallacy not too long ago.)

6. Special pleading fallacy
E.g. According to the cause and effect law, everything must have a cause including the universe, hence the ultimate cause must be god.

Logical position: Why must the cause be your god and who created your god? If your god cannot be created then why can’t the universe also exist without a creator? Why must you special plead your god from the law?

7. Argumentum ad populum (appealing to population)
E.g. There are more religious people than atheists, it means that the concept of a god is true. If it’s not true then why do so much people conceive it?

Logical position: Because so many hold a belief doesn’t make it true. We still require evidence to justify it even if the whole world believes it.

8. Ad hominem
E.g. A fool says in his heart that there’s no god.

Logical position: they are not fools because they don’t believe your claims. You need to provide evidence to convince them.

9. Fallacy of faulty equivalence
E.g. If a car can have a creator then the universe must have a creator which is god.

Logical position: We know the producers of cars, we know the factories, we know the engineers, we can meet them physically and we can even sue them if they make faulty cars. This cannot be applied to your god, it’s a faulty equivalence. We cannot sue your god for making cancer cells or earthquakes.
Dtruthspeaker is fond of this fallacy.

10. Circular reasoning.
E.g. : The Bible is true, so you should not doubt the Word of God.

Logical position: This argument rests on your prior acceptance of the Bible as truth even without any evidence that it’s true. You started with what you wanted to end the argument with.

I will add an important one.

Fallacy of shifting the burden of proof.
E.g. Can you prove that god doesn’t exist?

Logical position: No I can’t, same way I cannot prove that unicorns and the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn’t exist. They burden of proof is on those that claim that they exist.

We atheists hope that you can be more logical in your arguments so we can take you more seriously.

Dtruthspeaker:
"less corrupt and lower murder rates".

That is why you people are blind and do not see very well not think properly.

Scattered scrambled thoughts makes a person blind.

You thought started with "social cohesion" and "public morality" then you abandoned it and went on to corruption and murder rates.

That is exactly how insane people think also



Meanwhile, since these countries became irreligious, Crimes Massively And Grossly Increased as Reported by their own media channels and Crime Experts.

So once again, you Lie.

Workch:
Some religious conservatives warn that the retreat from faith will lead to a collapse of social cohesion and public morality, the evidence doesn’t support this claim. Surprising as it may seem, countries that are less religious actually tend to be less corrupt and have lower murder rates than religious ones.

Each year, Transparency International publishes a Corruption Perception Index that ranks public-sector corruption in 180 countries and territories. Is corruption less widespread in religious countries than less religious ones? The answer is an unequivocal “no”—in fact, religious countries actually tend to be more corrupt than secular ones. This study shows that New Zealand, Denmark, Finland and Switzerland are the least corrupt counties in 2020. According to a study conducted in 2018, almost 50% of people in New Zealand said they don’t gave a religion.


So the question now become, why religious countries are the most corrupt and irreligious countries are more moral despite the fact that religion claim to preach morality?
Look at Nigeria for example, about 95% religious but nothing to write home about in terms of morals.
Why?

Dtruthspeaker:
Including you! so, normal!