Fuckjesusandgod:
Counter the facts na oga

lol!

You came late actually. I am surprised by your comment

LordReed:


If someone is merely observing the universe why does he need to believe anything about the universe?

You smartly didn’t respond to my post.
That’s okay.
I would love you to. But if you don’t want to, then the premises on which your arguments are based are faulty.

Again, scientists observe and draw scientific laws and theories from observations and tests.
All are also hinged on the rational intelligibility of the universe: that the universe is not random , chaotic and mindless as some of you skeptics would have us think. No. If it were not ordered and designed like the theists and Christians think and preach, it would be difficult to have scientific laws and processes respond to same conditions everyday and over time before going into scientific texts.

Can you imagine what would happens if we wake up and don’t see the sun for 365 days as we were used to? Or gravity doesn’t work again as it used to? Would all the scientific laws hinged on the sun and gravity ( optics, mechanics and dynamics) remain same?

Science just believes the conditions would be same and relies on those assumptions. That is faith and belief.

budaatum:


It was written at a time when much less was known about the earth and the universe. Early science without the knowledge we now have, though it did inform us where and how to seek.

If you go through the thread you'd see Workch claiming I said the same thing, that science is hinged on belief. It isn't and neither did I say it was, but the discussion that ensued might still inform you.

You didn’t say how many years are in between Genesis 1:1 and verse 2. So you are wrong in your calculations and assumptions about the age you quoted earlier. Maybe you can still comment on that.

Scientific tests and theories are all hinged on the fact that the universe is rationally intelligible to allow certain observations performed on the physical matter with the conditions remaining same any time the tests are done.
Once any of the conditions in the universe is tilted, the laws would come out differently. Science has no power to set those conditions or their continuous stability or permanence but would continue observing nature and hoping all the conditions are same tomorrow as they are today. That’s some kind of faith and belief.

Science has not said anything to make us think Genesis accounts are primitive. Maybe you are saying it in the name of science. Of course you aren’t science.

MaxInDHouse:


The Topic here is:
"Fifteen basic beliefs you don't know about Jehovah's Witnesses"
After seeing the basic beliefs of a group and you can't tell if they are the true Christians or not then it simply means you are deceiving yourself.
When Jesus said the road to everlasting life is narrow while the road to destruction is broad {Matthew 7:13-14} this simply means those on the road to everlasting life have the same line of thought regarding beliefs {John 17:20-23} while those on the road to destruction have contradicting beliefs! Luke 11:23
So can you pick any of the sects claiming denominations in Christendom and specifically list their basic beliefs the same way?
The answer is NO!
Because before you mention at least four out of their basic beliefs you will notice that the doctrines of this churches are contradicting. Then what are the basic tenets that defines a true Christian group?
That's why i said real intellectuals can easily see through you that you're deceiving yourself.

All I see is pride and false presumptions about oneself.

I don’t want to start arguments with you on who is a better christian than the other.
Anyone who believes in Jesus Christ as the saviour of the world and the way to God the father is a Christian. Any other grey areas that are not fundamental may not matter to God.

Please keep that in mind.

I don’t even know why you think you are on the narrow way while others are on the broad way.
What is the narrow way? What is the broad way?

kimco:


No you seem to not take into consideration that the bible is the word of "God" and cannot contain holes. You cannot equate it to any other story because when it fits your agenda you elevate it above other literature calling it divine. When it is called out for it flaws suddenly it becomes like any other story. Stop moving this goal post.

Again you miss the point!
None of the accounts I illustrated had changed.
The events hadn’t changed too.
What changes is the individual interpretations of those accounts.

Why do you keep missing the point?
Did I say the account changed?
Na waooo

MaxInDHouse:


I don't know why you people can't see how easy it is for real intellectuals to read through you. After reading about the resolve of a global family you want to draw a similarity between them and pagans with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines. How do you quantify a Christian group in the first place?

“...real intellectuals...” is a put off for intellectualism in this context.

It was just a simple statement I made to say your doctrines aren’t much different from that of other Christians to cause all the whole arguments we see every now and then.

So what point are you trying to make now?
That you are an intellectual? That you are a Christian and others are pagans?

What are you seeing through? You would rather I had started criticizing your beliefs and dogmas instead of seeing and doing “jump and pass”?

Pls what is your point?

Horus:


Yashua

There is NO letter "J" in the Hebrew, Arabic, Greek and Latin language! The letter "J" as this letter did not exist some 2,000 years ago.
The letter "J" is only 500 years old. If Jesus was a Jew and there is no letter J in the hebrew language then his name could not have been Jesus.
It is all a fabrication; The Jesus Story was taken out of ancient Tamare (falsely called Africa and Egypt). These are the records of Haru (Horus) mixing with Greek, Roman, Hinduism to give you the Jesus story. Basically the Jesus story was based on the life of the ancient African Haru (who the Greeks called Horus) and they mixing it with their mythlogies to create a new religion. His was done by the PISO FAMILY.
Do your own research to Investigate Josephus Flavius Piso.

What were the original forms of Jacob, Joshua, Jude, Judas, John, Jabez, Jordan, Jonathan, Jehoshaphat? They all had J’s even before Jesus came into the picture.

kimco:


Are you now equating human stories to "God's word"? Please stop this is just sad.

You can pretend to miss the point.
It’s okay

chatinent:
We as Jehovah’s Witnesses adhere to the form of Christianity that Jesus taught and that his apostles practiced. This article summarizes our basic beliefs.
.
1. God. We worship the one true and Almighty God, the Creator 'who has a name', and whose name is Jehovah. (Psalm 83:18; Revelation 4:​ 11) He is the God of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus.​—Exodus 3:6; 32:11; John 20:17.
.
2. Bible. We recognize the Bible as God’s inspired message to humans. (John 17:17; 2 Timothy 3:​16) We base our beliefs on all 66 of its books, which include both the “Old Testament” and the “New Testament.” Professor Jason D. BeDuhn aptly described it when he wrote that Jehovah’s Witnesses built “their system of belief and practice from the raw material of the Bible without predetermining what was to be found there.” * While we accept the entire Bible, we are not fundamentalists. We recognize that parts of the Bible are written in figurative or symbolic language and are not to be understood literally.​ —Revelation 1:1.
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3. Jesus. We follow the teachings and example of Jesus Christ and honor him as our Savior and as the Son of God. (Matthew 20:28; Acts 5:​31) Thus, we are Christians. (Acts 11:26) However, we have learned from the Bible that Jesus is not Almighty God and that there is no Scriptural basis for the Trinity doctrine.​—John 14:28.
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4. The Kingdom of God. This is a real government in heaven, not a condition in the hearts of Christians. It will replace human governments and accomplish God’s purpose for the earth. (Daniel 2:​44; Matthew 6:​9, 10) It will take these actions soon, for Bible prophecy indicates that we are living in “ the last days.”​—2 Timothy 3:​1-5; Matthew 24:​3-​14. Jesus is the King of God’s Kingdom in heaven. He began ruling in 1914.​—Revelation 11:15.
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5. Salvation. Deliverance from sin and death is possible through the ransom sacrifice of Jesus. (Matthew 20:28; Acts 4:​12) To benefit from that sacrifice, people must not only exercise faith in Jesus but also change their course of life and get baptized. (Matthew 28:19, 20; John 3:​16; Acts 3:​19, 20) A person’s works prove that his faith is alive. (James 2:​24, 26) However, salvation cannot be earned​—it comes through “the undeserved kindness of God.”​—Galatians 2:​16, 21.
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6. Heaven. Jehovah God, Jesus Christ, and the faithful angels reside in the spirit realm. * (Psalm 103:19-​21; Acts 7:​55) A relatively small number of people​—144,000​—will be resurrected to life in heaven to rule with Jesus in the Kingdom.​—Daniel 7:​27; 2 Timothy 2:​12; Revelation 5:​9, 10; 14:​1, 3.
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7. Earth. God created the earth to be mankind’s eternal home. (Psalm 104:5; 115:16; Ecclesiastes 1:4) God will bless obedient people with perfect health and everlasting life in an earthly paradise. Of course, it was his original purpose while creating man.​—Psalm 37:11, 34.
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8. Evil and suffering. These began when one of God’s angels rebelled. (John 8:​44) This angel, who after his rebellion was called “Satan” and “Devil,” persuaded the first human couple to join him, and the consequences have been disastrous for their descendants. ( Genesis 3:​1-6; Romans 5:​12) In order to settle the moral issues raised by Satan, God has 'allowed' evil and suffering, but He will not permit them to continue forever.
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9. Death. People who die pass out of existence. (Psalm 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:​5, 10) They do not suffer in a fiery hell of torment. God will bring billions back from death by means of a resurrection. (Acts 24:15) However, those who refuse to learn God’s ways after being raised to life will be destroyed forever with no hope of a resurrection.​— Revelation 20:14, 15.
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10. Family. We adhere to God’s original standard of marriage as the union of one man and one woman, with sexual immorality being the only valid basis for divorce. (Matthew 19:​4-9) We are convinced that the wisdom found in the Bible helps families to succeed.​—Ephesians 5:22–​6:1.
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11. Our worship. We do not venerate the cross or any other images. (Deuteronomy 4:​15-​19; 1 John 5:​21) Key aspects of our worship include the following: Praying to God.​—Philippians 4:6. Reading and studying the Bible.​—Psalm 1:​1-3. Meditating on what we learn from the Bible.​—Psalm 77:12. Meeting together to pray, study the Bible, sing, express our faith, and encourage fellow Witnesses and others.​— Colossians 3:​16; Hebrews 10:23-​25. Preaching the “good news of the Kingdom.”​—Matthew 24:14. Helping those in need.​—James 2:​14-​17. Constructing and maintaining Kingdom Halls and other facilities used to further our worldwide Bible educational work.​— Psalm 127:1. Sharing in disaster relief.​—Acts 11:27-​30.
.
12. Our organization. We are organized into congregations, each of which is overseen by a body of elders. However, the elders do not form a clergy class, and they are unsalaried. (Matthew 10:8; 23: We do not practice tithing, and no collections are ever taken at our meetings. (2 Corinthians 9:7) All our activities are supported by anonymous donations. The Governing Body, a small group of mature Christians who serve at our world headquarters, provides direction for Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide.​— Matthew 24:45.
.

This is okay.
The few grey areas that cause heated debates between you and other Christians really do not seem to be too fundamental as to deny anyone a place in the kingdom of God. My personal opinion though

hupernikao:



Let me give you a full text of what you quoted.

Exodus 1
16 And he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the stools; if it be a son, then ye shall kill him: but if it be a daughter, then she shall live.

17 But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the men children alive.

To understand this scenario well you must observe key issues.

1. Observe the instruction given to them. To kill the male child.

2 Observed what the midwife feared God for.
They feared God and not kill the male child.


Now what was God pleased with.
You must read context.

Verse 16 pharaoh wanted children killed
Verse 17 midwife saved the children because THEY FEARED GOD.

God's satisfaction is in that action.

But you have read the later discussion of Pharoah and midwife as an action that God was pleased with.

Read verse 21 and 17 together, you will get it.

THERE IS AN EMPHASIS OF THEY FEARED GOD in verse 17 and 21 which you have neglected. That's where your answer is.

To understand well,
Read verse 21 together with verse 17 you will get the context.

17 But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the men children alive
21 And it came to pass, because the midwives feared God, that he made them houses.

God's action was premised on this. It's clear in the context.

They feared God and didn't kill, then God was pleased with it.

I guess this is clear?

Brilliant!

kimco:


Hahahahahaha even with the tech that abounds, we have not been able to talk to every person or tribes on mother earth.


Deep down in your mind, you know what you said is not true. With the current technology we have, we can reach the world million times in 100-120 years.

In our villages many years ago, town criers come with gongs and move from location to location to pass messages across. They also hit the big ikoro and udu to pass messages across and were effective as at then.



Even if you consider pangea, how did he manage to locate these people without getting himself killed. And also how did he balance building that boat and moving around to tell people? Everyone? Naaa bro.

I would suggest you read the Genesis yourself on this.


If I was God and wanted to kill my enemies, I will just comand them dead instead of making an old man and his unskilled normal bodied (not hulk like creatures that can lift logs and timber to build that huge boat) children to toll and build a boat deviod of any leakages and errors while also going around the world to preach to native tribesmen in the bushes( its silly to think all men were enlightened then some men devolved into bushmen state like we see today, so it is smarter to assume they existed those times too)

But you are not God. Maybe in a world created and sustained by you, you could just do what you wish.

Im not God but I think my plan works better....like thanos. Imagine how the world ecosystem would be affcted by moving animals away from their habitats...how did the polar bear even survive in the extreme heat...and the fishes too?

Too many holes.

Too many holes? Yes.

The Endsars saga that is very fresh has many holes.
Police brutality accounts has many holes.
Issues of banditry, kidnappings and terrorism has many holes.
The anti-Semitic campaign by Hitler has many holes.
The Biafran war has many holes.
The IPOB struggles has many holes.

Now tell me any account that doesn’t have holes depending on which side of the divide one is sympathetic to?

budaatum:


I guess there's no point rehashing, considering the numerous views that believe otherwise.



Genesis 1 has been superseded by superior knowledge. We now know the universe is much older and did not come into existence as Gen 1 implies, and believing Gen 1 is like believing the science of Pytolemy instead of standing on his giant shoulders so one sees further.

What is the time frame between Genesis 1:1 and verse 2?

How did you arrive at your calculations?
You really haven’t said why Genesis is primitive.

Again science is simply hinged on beliefs.
Maybe you don’t know

Workch:
Argument of penguins in Middle East?

Lol, that’s stupid like Flying Spaghetti Monster

Religion makes one stupid.
Even the religion if Flying Spaghetti Monster makes more sense, but both are still full of shoe and nonsense

Please close the thread.
Talk don finish for ya mouth

Workch:
It takes an overwhelming level of stupidity to believe that Penguins were ever in the Middle East

I will never allow my kids be as stupid as Christians

Your weak arguments dismantled already.
Next one please!

Lol

Workch:
Who has time to argue against such nonsense.
Llamas travelled from Peru to join an ark in Middle East.

You Christians are so dumb and ignorant. You all know nothing. Only believe anything told to you like zombies and programmed robots

How can llamas travel a cross the Atlantic to join an ark without any evidence left in form of fossil?
To be a Christian, you have to lack common sense, it almost like you need to be abjectly stupid to be a qualified Christian

It’s like religion kills brain cells

You already exhausted the logical questions you were asking before.
Now you are just angry and showing emotional instability.

Your 2 weak arguments quashed. Come up with better thoughts you foolish, ignorant, narcissistic and cocky godless fellow!

VaselineCrew:


Lol, so in a sense, you are actually advocating for a further slide in our currency?

Cause why stop at N580, using your analysis up there? Why don’t we crank the dollar up to about N2,000. So for 266USD, you’d have N532,000 abi?

Don’t gorget though, that you produce almost nothing, so that phone you used to buy for 30k, is now 120k, out of your N532,000.

Now what about minimum wages and currency value? A minimum wage here is N30,000. Thirty whole thousand a month? I should be so rich, but I forgot that the currency was in naira, sigh. Meanwhile, a cleaner might make 6 dollars/hour abroad, talk less of people with specialized skills.

Soon, cleaners from abroad will come back to buy all of you, lol, because maybe when dollar becomes N2k, they will just bring like 1k dollars back home which will be like 2 million naira, then you guys will be prostrating on the floor shouting “Oga Sir”.

Lol!

I simply stuck to the issue of purchasing power.
That’s all. You are touching so many other areas.
That’s an issue for another day.

Workch:
You that you have common sense and you still don’t know that there’s no way a flood can cover all the earth.

So Noah trekked to meet those in ancient South Africa to inform them about the flood?

You are a joker. The flood is a lie, only demented people believe such nonsense

Your weak arguments dismantled already.
Say something else please.

Workch:
The flood cover the peak of Mount Everest. Those using those structure, didn’t record the flood. They didn’t document it and didn’t record any mass murder as that time. There’s no archeological evidence whatsoever on the walls that they were once flooded

Let’s see if you have common sense. Think about it

You have drifted now.
I can see you don’t have common sense.

First of all you asked how Noah would have gone to many places to preach then.
I showed you he did it in 100-120 years and also asked you to discuss what locations anyone could not cover in 120 years. But you changed the topic.

Secondly you asked how structures survived if the flood happened. I simply told you the 2 questions you ask to discredit the flood are very weak. I haven’t even told you the flood happened or did not happen. However I simply followed your 2 questions to say they are weak.

If you try to rubbish the flood account by asking how Noah could have gone round to tell everyone, then you fail. Because he did it in 100-120 years which is enough to talk to everyone.

If you bring arguments on surviving structures, that’s also weak because any good structure should have strong debris after a 40 day flood.
We can confirm that using houses that have been permanently flooded in Lagos and other locations, and even some underwater structures.

The animals and humans were the most affected and not structures. So again, you bring up a weak argument.

Workch:
Gobeliki Tepe is 10,000bc
Barnenez is 4,850BC

They are still standing until date

So what is a 40 day flood supposed to do to those structures?
Kindly analyze for us.

Let’s also analyze structures that had permanently been in waters for years. Did the waters completely exterminate them?

Some houses in Lagos had been submerged in floods at one time or another. Did the structures disappear completely?

Please analyze for us.

LordReed:


Says the one with a delusion factory for a brain. LMFAO!

Well I already made my point.
Push it down your consciousness.
If you bring up any other illogical statements again, we will again put holes in them.

Of course you can continue your mockery which are at best mockery and have no logical points

LordReed:


LMAO! Yeah it is better than wallowing in delusion as exhibited by this here post of yours. You dream up a scenario in your head about me and believe it to be true with no shred of evidence. Par for the course I guess. Bwahahahahaha! OMFD, such delusion! LMFAO!

Yes. Keep the denials coming. We will simply put holes in your illogical posts.
Lol

Workch:
You don’t know exactly when the flood occurred?

I will tell you, according to the Bible genealogy , the time of Adam to Jesus is 4004 years. From he time of Adam to Noah is 1656 years, it means that the flood happened around 2000BC.
And that’s approximately 4000year ago.

So how come we have structure still standing on earth today that are far older than 4,000years? Flood didn’t destroy them?

List the structures so we look at them one after the other and examine the effect of flood on such structures.

No historian will specifically pinpoint most of the events of that era. That is why estimates are used.

So you no longer argue on how Noah would have reached many people within that time?

Workch:
What year did the Noah’s flood happen?
I want you to answer that

Lol!
You can keep running from pillar to post and change the topic a million times. So we have established the logical possibility of Noah preaching to then known smaller world in 100-120 years.

The flood most likely occurred sometime between 2,000 and 10,000 B.C

LordReed:


I have no reason to think this universe was made by a god.

What bothers you about what I imagine doesn't concern me so feel free to be bothered.

That question is better suited for you.

That’s what you comfort yourself with.
Nobody really cares what you think about a world not made by you.

We only took interest when you mentioned God and the laws and principles. I guess you have no laws and principles that guide your life and discipline. You just do all you do by whims and uncoordinated activities. So it’s okay to ask why laws and principles in the universe.

Someone like you would tell friends what you want and not want; would state boundaries in relationships; would complain about politicians not sticking to the letters of the constitution; would even blame Christians for not practicing what their Bible teaches; would blame lecturers for going against school ethics; would blame the police for not doing enough; would complain about breakdown of law and order when we don’t have enough security to man the country; would complain about the menace of insurgence and terrorism and kidnapping; would take time to shave, keep clean and take care of your environment.

Yet you would hypocritically questions principles and laws God had put in the universe.

Originakalokalo:


Well said.

Thanks.

Anyone comparing God and science is committing category error as there are no basis for the comparisons.
Science never made a claim to have created anything. Theists make a claim that God created all things. Science only comes into debating on things that had been created.

Say law of gravity. Science doesn’t know how it came to be. But science has tried to investigate how it operates and how the law affects the universe.

Religion mixed with science causes bad religion and bad science or perhaps meta-science which really isn’t science.

Workch:
What year before the birth of Jesus did the Noah’s flood happen?

Like how many BC?
Do you know that or should we do the maths together?

100-120 years is a long time to reach out to the then known worlds.

Civilization and population hadn’t been as complex as they are now.

If you were to ask your forebears about your village in the last 100 years, it’s possible they started out as a small settlement in a small colony of a few families and then spread from there to larger towns after many years.
A town crier could easily had gone round your village to pass messages across which now would require a much more complex communication system because of expansions, growth, migrations etc.

Also note the Noah accounts happened before the Tower of Babel in Genesis 11.

Workch:
What year before the birth of Jesus did the Noah’s flood happen?

Like how many BC?
Do you know that or should we do the maths together?

So are we done with how Noah traversed the then known world to preach in 100-120 years which is more than enough to reach out to a lot of people?

LordReed:


Last time I checked there no label on the universe saying "Made by god".

Sure I can think the universe could have been better. As long as we talking about imaginary beings with imaginary universe building powers, any speculation is welcome.

If I can't neither can you so where do you get off telling me about this god?

Because you questioned the laws and principles in a world made by God.

If you come up with imaginations about how you would have made YOUR own world, I wouldn’t have bothered you.

Why are you not following your logic?

Workch:
According to the Bible, what year did Noah’s flood happen?

According to the Bible, Noah’s accounts started from Genesis 5 whereas the Tower of Babel happened in Genesis 11.

Isn’t it logical?

Workch:
I have been wondering how Noah sent out the message of catastrophe from the Middle East to other parts of the world in such a short period.

I don’t know which is most unacceptable; the story itself, or whether people don’t question it or even how believers feel insecure when curious people question this.

Lalasticlala, seun

100-120 years is a long time to reach out to the then known worlds.

Civilization and population hadn’t been as complex as they are now.

If you were to ask your forebears about your village in the last 100 years, it’s possible they started out as a small settlement in a small colony of a few families and then spread from there to larger towns after many years.
A town crier could easily had gone round your village to pass messages across which now would require a much more complex communication system because of expansions, growth, migrations etc.

Also note the Noah accounts happened before the Tower of Babel in Genesis 11.

Workch:
Should I believe it even when it doesn’t make sense?
Don’t be silly, question these things. A lot of them don’t make any sense

Yes. You believe maths and now exist even when we don’t have proof of their existence. Does that make sense?

You believe logic makes sense even when there is no empirical proof that your current logic exists. Does that make any sense?

You believe in scientific laws even when science cannot proof any of its laws. Does that make any sense?

You believe we all are conscious, yourself inclusive. Yet you don’t have an iota of empirical data to support your consciousness. Does it make any sense to you at all?

We all believe there are other minds external to us, and that the world could have been billions of years old whereas it’s possible the world just started a minute ago.

Does any of these make sense to you?

You believe humans and apes share 97% DNA similarity despite the fact that apes aren’t 97% humans? Does that make sense?

We also await when apes will turn to humans and humans turn to other creatures, with our eyes evolving to something else. Does any of these make sense to you?

Why haven’t you jettisoned the ideas if and only if all sensible things only are proven and established empirically?

XXXXTENTACION:
Only one world exist they is no other possible world to talk about .... Kwantinue with your explanation...

“In any possible world...in all POSSIBLE worlds...”