IMAliyu:

What are your thoughts on Chaos theory and the works behind it?

Please tell us about it

LordReed:


Already said where they come from. We do not know where the fundamental forces come from, they could have preceeded the expansion of the universe, we just don't know.



All you need to do is provide evidence of this mind you are describing to show that you are correct.



So what if it was different? How does that prove that science requires belief? Are you not proving we need no faith since if it was random we would need faith to achieve anything?




As we know it. If it was different it would be different. How does that mean we need faith?

It’s faith/belief/presuppositions as we know it and as most scientists talk about it now.
If the conditions change then this discussion changes too. Scientists haven’t changed the empirical data stance based on the presuppositions I gave you before. So why should we talk about what they would say if the conditions change?

At least we all agree science never created the forces and laws in nature but only observe them based on presuppositions( beliefs, faith) that the nature they met and observe will not change.

You know faith and reason are basic in religion.
That is given and is not at contention.
What is at contention is the assumption that science works on strict empiricism.
No scientific law has ever been scientifically proven, yet we assume they are all valid.
Most decisions arrived at after scientific tests and hypotheses are carried out are still subjected to philosophical decisions on what is the best and what the result aims to achieve and what the financiers of the project have in mind as end result.

All of science is based on presuppositions/faith/belief in the laws of nature present before the scientific studies.

LordReed:


Again not really my problem.

You assumed the challenge was our problem?

Workch:
Yes, we have evidence that specifically the Abrahamic, Hindu and African gods do not exist.
Evidence has always disproven the holy books every now and then that theist now sort to look for evidence, mould them to wrongly suit their specific narratives. Every now and then we have proven that Adam and Eve, Noah's flood, Tower of babel, birth of Jesus, slavery of Israelites in Egypt, creation stories are myths. Evidence has forced believers to move the goalpost countless times on this issues.

But one kind of God that will be hard to disprove is the deistic God, it's that God I am not sure doesn't exist. If I see evidence, I will change my mind but I'm sure the Christian, Muslim, Judaism, hindu gods etc are all nonsense. Nothing about them can be verified outside their primitive holy books.

If you are an atheist, you are not a good one.
Last time I checked your name wasn’t in the register of the Brights.
So the Brights would be ashamed of your half knowledge that led to your misconceptions.

I will suggest you go read the objections good skeptics give on Jesus Christ and on theism.

What you typed up there is crap.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-18/dickson-tips-for-atheists/5397892

Top 10 tips for atheists this Easter

Atheists should drop their easily dismissed scientific, philosophical or historical arguments against Christianity, and instead quiz believers about Old Testament violence and hell, writes John Dickson.

As an intellectual movement, Christianity has a head start on atheism. So it's only natural that believers would find some of the current arguments against God less than satisfying.

In the interests of a more robust debate this Easter, I want to offer my tips for atheists wanting to make a dent in the Faith. I've got some advice on arguments that should be dropped and some admissions about where Christians are vulnerable.

Tip #1. Dip into Christianity's intellectual tradition

This is the 1,984th Easter since 7 April AD 30, the widely accepted date among historians for the crucifixion of Jesus (the 1,981st if you find the arguments for 3 April AD 33 persuasive). Christians have been pondering this stuff for a long time. They've faced textual, historical, and philosophical scrutiny in almost every era, and they have left a sophisticated literary trail of reasons for the Faith.

My first tip, then, is to gain some awareness of the church's vast intellectual tradition. It is not enough to quip that 'intellectual' and 'church' are oxymoronic. Origen, Augustine, Philoponus, Aquinas, and the rest are giants of Western thought. Without some familiarity with these figures, or their modern equivalents - Pannenberg, Ward, MacIntrye, McGrath, Plantinga, Hart, Volf - popular atheists can sound like the kid in English class, "Miss, Shakespeare is stupid!"

Tip #2. Notice how believers use the word 'faith'

One of the things that becomes apparent in serious Christian literature is that no one uses 'faith' in the sense of believing things without reasons. That might be Richard Dawkins' preferred definition - except when he was publicly asked by Oxford's Professor John Lennox whether he had 'faith' in his lovely wife - but it is important to know that in theology 'faith' always means personal trust in the God whose existence one accepts on other grounds. I think God is real for philosophical, historical, and experiential reasons. Only on the basis of my reasoned conviction can I then trust God - have faith in him - in the sense meant in theology.

Tip #3. Appreciate the status of 6-Day Creationism

Richard Dawkins and Lawrence Kraus have done a disservice to atheism by talking as though 6-Day Creationism is the default Christian conviction. But mainstream Christianities for decades have dismissed 6-Day Creationism as a misguided (if well-intentioned) project. Major conservative institutions like Sydney's Moore Theological College, which produces more full time ministers than any college in the country, have taught for years that Genesis 1 was never intended to be read concretely, let alone scientifically. This isn't Christians retreating before the troubling advances of science. From the earliest centuries many of the greats of Judaism (e.g., Philo and Maimonides) and Christianity (e.g., Clement, Ambrose, and Augustine) taught that the 'six days' of Genesis are a literary device, not a marker of time.

Tip #4. Repeat after me: no theologian claims a god-of-the-gaps

One slightly annoying feature of New Atheism is the constant claim that believers invoke God as an explanation of the 'gaps' in our knowledge of the universe: as we fill in the gaps with more science, God disappears. Even as thoughtful a man as Lawrence Kraus, a noted physicist, did this just last month on national radio following new evidence of the earliest moments of the Big Bang.

But the god-of-the-gaps is an invention of atheists. Serious theists have always welcomed explanations of the mechanics of the universe as further indications of the rational order of reality and therefore of the presence of a Mind behind reality. Kraus sounds like a clever mechanic who imagines that just because he can explain how a car works he has done away with the Manufacturer.

Tip #5. "Atheists just go one god more" is a joke, not an argument

I wish I had a dollar for every time an atheist insisted that I am an atheist with respect to Thor, Zeus, Krishna, and so on, and that atheists just go 'one god more'. As every trained philosopher knows, Christians are not absolute atheists with regard to other gods. They happily affirm the shared theistic logic that there must be a powerful Mind behind a rational universe. The disagreements concern how the deity has revealed itself in the world. Atheism is not just an extension of monotheism any more than celibacy is an extension of monogamy.

Tip #6. Claims that Christianity is social 'poison' backfire

Moving from science and philosophy to sociology, I regard New Atheism's "religion poisons everything" argument as perhaps its greatest faux pas. Not just because it is obviously untrue but because anyone who has entertained the idea and then bumped into an actual Christian community will quickly wonder what other fabrications Hitchens and Dawkins have spun.

I don't just mean that anyone who dips into Christian history will discover that the violence of Christendom is dwarfed by the bloodshed of non-religious and irreligious conflicts. I mean that those who find themselves, or their loved ones, in genuine need in this country are very, very likely to become the beneficiaries of direct and indirect Christian compassion. The faithful account for an inordinate amount of "volunteering hours" in Australia, they give blood at higher-than-normal rates, and 18 of the nation's 25 largest charities are Christian organisations. This doesn't make Christians better than atheists, but it puts the lie to the claim that they're worse.

Tip #7. Concede that Jesus lived, then argue about the details

Nearly 10 years after Richard Dawkins says that "a serious historical case" can be made that Jesus "never lived" (even if he admits that his existence is probable). It is astonishing to me that some atheists haven't caught up with the fact that this was always a nonsense statement. Even the man Dawkins cites at this point, GA Wells (a professor of German language, not a historian), published his own change of mind right about the time The God Delusion came out.

New Atheists should accept the academic reality that the vast majority of specialists in secular universities throughout the world consider it beyond reasonable doubt that Jesus lived, taught, gained a reputation as a healer, was crucified by Pontius Pilate, and was soon heralded by his followers as the resurrected Messiah. Unless sceptics can begin their arguments from this academic baseline, they are the mirror image of the religious fundamentalists they despise - unwilling to accept the scholarly mainstream over their metaphysical commitments.

Tip #8. Persuasion involves three factors

Aristotle was the first to point out that persuasion occurs through three factors: intellectual (logos), psychological (pathos), and social or ethical (ethos). People rarely change their minds merely on account of objective evidence. They usually need to feel the personal relevance and impact of a claim, and they also must feel that the source of the claim - whether a scientist or a priest - is trustworthy.

Christians frequently admit that their convictions developed under the influence of all three elements. When sceptics, however, insist that their unbelief is based solely on 'evidence', they appear one-dimensional and lacking in self-awareness. They would do better to figure out how to incorporate their evidence within the broader context of its personal relevance and credibility. I think this is why Alain de Botton is a far more persuasive atheist (for thoughtful folk) than Richard Dawkins or Lawrence Kraus. It is also why churches attract more enquirers than the local sceptics club.

Tip #9. Ask us about Old Testament violence

I promised to highlight vulnerabilities of the Christian Faith. Here are two.

Most thoughtful Christians find it difficult to reconcile the loving, self-sacrificial presentation of God in the New Testament with the seemingly harsh and violent portrayals of divinity in the Old Testament. I am not endorsing Richard Dawkins' attempts in chapter 7 of The God Delusion. There he mistakenly includes stories that the Old Testament itself holds up as counter examples of true piety. But there is a dissonance between Christ's "love your enemies" and Moses' "slay the wicked".

I am not sure this line of argument has the power to undo Christian convictions entirely. I, for one, feel that the lines of evidence pointing to God's self-disclosure in Christ are so robust that I am able to ponder the inconsistencies in the Old Testament without chucking in the Faith. Still, I reckon this is one line of scrutiny Christians haven't yet fully answered.

Tip #10. Press us on hell and judgment

Questions can also be raised about God's fairness with the world. I don't mean the problem of evil and suffering: philosophers seem to regard that argument as a 'draw'. I am talking about how Christians can, on the one hand, affirm God's costly love in Jesus Christ and, yet, on the other, maintain Christ's equally clear message that those who refuse the Creator will face eternal judgment. If God is so eager for our friendship that he would enter our world, share our humanity, and bear our punishment on the cross, how could he feel it is appropriate to send anyone to endless judgment?

This is a peculiar problem of the Christian gospel. If God were principally holy and righteous, and only occasionally magnanimous in special circumstances, we wouldn't be shocked by final judgment. But it is precisely because Jesus described God as a Father rushing to embrace and kiss the returning 'prodigal' that Christians wonder how to hold this in tension with warnings of hell and judgment.

Again, I'm not giving up on classical Christianity because of this internally generated dilemma, but I admit to feeling squeamish about it, and I secretly hope atheists in my audiences don't think to ask me about it.

***

I doubt there are any strong scientific, philosophical or historical arguments against Christianity. Most of those in current circulation are nowhere near as persuasive as New Atheism imagines. Contemporary sceptics would do well to drop them. Paradoxically, I do think Christianity is vulnerable at precisely the points of its own emphases. Its insistence on love, humility, and non-violence is what makes the Old Testament seem inconsistent. Its claim that God "loves us to death" (literally) creates the dilemma of its teaching about final judgment. Pressing Christians on this inner logic of the cross of Christ will make for a very interesting debate, I am sure. Believers may have decent answers, but at least you'll be touching a truly raw nerve of the Easter Faith.

Dr John Dickson is an author and historian, and a founding director of the Centre for Public Christianity. View his full profile here.

Workch:
Wont happen until you provide evidence for your own initial claims.
That which is claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence

So the default position is maintained.

Jesus Christ had incarnate birth.
Jesus Christ came to save mankind from sin.
Jesus Christ was baptized in river Jordan by John the baptist.
Jesus Christ taught about the kingdom of God and showed people the way to God.
Jesus Christ was crucified.
Jesus Christ was buried in a tomb belonging to Joseph of Arimathea.
Jesus Christ was raised back to life by God.
Jesus Christ ascended to heaven.
Jesus Christ lives in the heart of all believers and helps believers through the indwelling of the Holy Ghost.

Glory hallelujah!

“For I passed on to you first of all what I also had received, that Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One) died for our sins in accordance with [what] the Scriptures [foretold], [Isa. 53:5-12.] That He was buried, that He arose on the third day as the Scriptures foretold, [Ps. 16:9, 10.] And [also] that He appeared to Cephas (Peter), then to the Twelve. Then later He showed Himself to more than five hundred brethren at one time, the majority of whom are still alive, but some have fallen asleep [in death]. Afterward He was seen by James, then by all the apostles (the special messengers), And last of all He appeared to me also, as to one prematurely and born dead [no better than an unperfected fetus among living men].”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:3-8‬ ‭AMPC‬‬
https://www.bible.com/8/1co.15.3-8.ampc

Workch:
I mean, it’s possible she probably fornicated and had Jesus out of wedlock. To cover it, she cooked up the story of Holy Spirit.
And now no one knows the actual father of Jesus, Joseph was compelled to accept the bastard into his family because he loved Mary so much.

Na so religion take start o, A possible Bastard that might have been fathered by king Herod became a deity because his mother lied.

To be sincere, this story is more plausible that the Holy Spirit nonsense.

Dtruthspeaker, what do you have to say?

The burden of proof simply tilts towards you to demonstrate how the Bible account can’t be true on this and how a miracle ( incarnate birth) isn’t possible.

Show us please.

LordReed:


Not really my problem if you can't demonstrate the things you believe in.

I am happy you don’t even understand how miracles work

FOLYKAZE:


You think it is about money?

You are actually one of those lousy rabble rousers around here.


Cheers pal

That guy just started reading about atheism and is so fascinated that he discovered a mine of gold none had seen before.
Everything to him has to be viewed through the prism of strict materialism and scientism.

Don’t mind him abeg

LordReed:


Variations of this challenge have been around for some time now and no one has been able to claim a kobo. Some people will say it doesn't prove that a god doesn't exist but the silence is deafening.

No Christian will ever make a claim to perform miracles by their whims much more doing so for vain lucre. I doubt if anyone would come up and claim to do a miracle for you to earn money.
Miracles are exclusive prerogatives of God.
Even when Jesus appeared before Herod, Herod earnestly sought signs from him but Jesus ignored him.

Abraham said some people will not believe the gospel even if the dead were to rise back to life and preach to them.

So this challenge is inappropriate

kingxsamz:


Bold of you to assume I give a fvck.
Goodnight abeg.

Yes you do.
N10m is down for grabs if you can show me an empirical proof of your consciousness and logic.

To me you simply don’t exist. QED!

kingxsamz:


Lol, keep crying.

I am not crying. I am just saying you don’t exist.

If you don’t have empirical evidence for your consciousness, logic, maths, then you are just foolish and delusional.

Your time starts counting now.
I place a N10m prize for you.

LordReed:


There is no belief that they wouldn't change nor is there a presupposition that they wouldn't change since we are merely observing that they unchanged. If they change this very second no scientist is going to act as if he lost something instead they'd all be eager to find out the new information so I dunno where you are getting this presupposition idea from.

Hoping that science can explain stuff in the future is not faith, it is a desire or wish, how does that translate into it is faith.

BTW the physical laws of the universe do not require mind to form they are off shoots of the interaction between the fundamental forces of nature and energy. Also we see no mind issuing anything.

Where do the laws in nature come from?
What are the origins of the fundamental forces of nature and energy?
Science has never claimed to create any of them. Science only talks about the observations it sees in a universe already existing for scientific researches.

Scientific laws and principles would have been random, disorderly and chaotic if they were not ordered by a mind and a lawgiver.
There is no law without a lawgiver.
There is no design without a designer.

If the conditions that make science as we know it today changed every second, what we had called empirical data or naturalistic methodology would be different. We cannot call whims and randomness science today. So it won’t be the same.

Science as we know it is only possible because scientists assume the conditions that led to the empirical data we have will remain same. So science is still hinged on presuppositions ( beliefs and faith).

kingxsamz:
Why are Christians panicking and afraid of the fictional anti-christ coming to rule the world?
Shouldn't atheists be the ones panicking?
They claim these are the end times, that their bible made a prophecy about it. That Jesus would come and take his people to the promised land. If they so much believe that 5g and Coronavirus are signs of end time, why then are they panicking? Shouldn't they be rejoicing that Jesus is about to take them to heaven?
Why is pastor Chris hell bent on exposing the anti-christ? Or is he not ready to meet his maker?
Maybe he still wants to gather more tithes before the event takes place.
You people should be happy nw, at least you're about to meet the fictional Jesus you've been hearing about since your childhood.

Your daily obsession with religion and Christianity is mind boggling.

I would like to think that by our obsession with theism is more pronounced than the seemingly panicky state you are projecting here.

The Christians definitely live rent free in your mind and consciousness. Lol

NobleRace:


The day you understand that God is Creator, Father and Judge, you'll be free.

Earthly judges pass judgement on the guilty. God also judges the wicked who pollute the earth.

Thank you.

God is good, merciful and loving but is also a firm judge.

kingxsamz:
And I thought game of thrones and Spartacus were gruesome.
I wonder what it would look like if these killings and bloody events were adapted into a movie.
Hitler still dey learn sha...

Killing Event Reference Bible's
Number Estimate

1 The Flood of Noah Gen 7:23 20,000,000
2 Abraham's war to rescue Lot Gen 14:17-19 1,000
3 Sodom and Gomorrah Gen 19:24 2,000
4 Lot's wife Gen 19:26 1 1
5 While they were sore, Dinah's brethren
slew all the males
Gen 34:1-31 ,
Judith 9:2-3 2 1,000
6 Er for being wicked in the sight of the
Lord Gen 38:7 1 1
7 Onan for spilling his seed Gen 38:10 1 1
8 A seven year worldwide famine Gen 41:25-54 70,000
9 There will be blood: The first plague of
Egypt
Ex 7:15-27 , Wis
11:7-8 10,000
10 The seventh plague: hail Ex 9:25 300,000
11 Firstborn Egyptian children Ex 12:29-30 500,000
12 The Lord took off their chariot wheels Ex 14:8-26 600 5,000
13 Amalekites Ex 17:13 1,000
14 Who is on the Lord's side?: Forcing
friends and family to kill each other Ex 32:27-28 3,000 3,000
15 Aaron's golden calf Ex 32:35 1,000
16 God burns Aaron's sons to death for
offering "strange fire" Lev 10:1-3 2 2
17 A blasphemer is stoned to death Lev 24:10-23 1 1
18 When the people complained, God
burned them to death Num 11:1 100
19
While the flesh was still between their
teeth, the Lord smote them will a very
great plague
Num 11:33 10,000
20 Ten scouts are killed for their honest
report Num 14:35-45 10 110
21 A man gathering sticks on the Sabbath
day is stoned to death Num 15:32-35 1 1
22 Korah, his companions, and their
families are buried alive Num 16:27 3 9
23 God burns 250 people to death for
burning incense Num 16:35 250 250
24 God kills 14,700 for complaining about
God's killings Num 16:49 14,700 14,700
25 The massacre of the Aradies Num 21:1-2 3,000
26
God sent serpents to bite people for
complaining about the lack of food and
water
Num 21:6 100
27 Phineas's double murder: A killing to end
God's killing Num 25:1-11 24,002 24,002
28 The Midianite massacre: Have ye saved
all the women alive? Num 31:1-35 6 200,000
29 God slowly killed the Israelite army Dt 2:14-16 500,000
30 God the giant killer Dt 2:21-22 5,000
31 God hardens King Sihon's heart so all his
people can be killed Dt 2:33-34 1 5,000
32 Og and all the men women, and children
in 60 cities Dt 3:6 1 60,000
33 The Jericho massacre Jos 6:21 1,000
34 Achan and his family Jos 7:10-26 1 5
35 The Ai massacre Jos 8:1-25 12,000 12,000
36 God stops the sun so Joshua can get his
killing done in the daylight Jos 10:10-11 5,000
37 Five kings killed and hung on trees Jos 10:26 5 10,000
38 Joshua utterly destroyed all that
breathed as the Lord commanded Jos 10:28-42 7 7,000
39 The genocide of twenty cities: There
was not any left to breathe Jos 11:8-12 2 20,000
40 The Anakim: some more giant killing Jos 11:20-21 5,000
41 The Lord delivered the Canaanites and
Perizzites Jg 1:4 10,000 10,000
42 The Jerusalem massacre Jg 1:8 1,000
43 Five massacres, a wedding, and God-
proof iron chariots Jg 1:9-25 5,000
44 The Lord delivered Chushanrishathaim Jg 3:7-10 1 1,000
45 Ehud delivers a message from God Jg 3:15-22 1 1
46 God delivers 10,000 lusty Moabites Jg 3:28-29 10,000 10,000
47 Shamgar killed 600 Philistines with an ox
goad Jg 3:31 600 600
48 Barak and God massacre the Canaanites Jg 4:15-16 1,000
49 Jael pounds a tent stake through a
sleeping man's skull Jg 4:18-22 1 1
50 Gideon's story: The Lord set every man's
sword against his fellow Jg 7:22 120,000 120,000
51 A city is massacred and 1000 burn to
death because of God's evil spirit Jg 9:23-27 1,001 2,000
52 The Ammonite massacre Jg 11:32-33 20,000
53 Jephthah's daughter Jg 11:39 1 1
54 42,000 die for failing the "shibboleth"
test Jg 12:4-7 42,000 42,000
55 Samson murdered 30 men for their
clothes Jg 14:19 30 30
56 Samson killed 1000 men with the
jawbone of an ass Jg 15:14-15 1,000 1,000
57 Samson killed 3000 in a suicide terrorist
attack Jg 16:27-30 3,000 3,000
58
A holy civil war (it had something to do
with rotting concubine body part
messages)
Jg 20:35-37 65,100 65,100
59 The end of Judges: two genocides and
200 stolen virgins Jg 21:10-14 4,000
60 God killed Eli's sons and 34,000 Israelite
soldiers 1 Sam 2:25, 4:11 34,002 34,002
61 God smote them with hemorrhoids in
their secret parts 1 Sam 5:1-12 3,000
62 50,070 killed for looking into the ark of
the Lord 1 Sam 6:19 50,070 50,070
63 The Lord thundered a great thunder
upon the Philistines 1 Sam 7:10-11 1,000
64
Another Ammonite massacre
(and another God-inspired body part
message)
1 Sam 11:6-13 1,000
65 Jonathan's first slaughter 1 Sam 14:12-14 20 20
66 God forces the Philistines to kill each
other 1 Sam 14:20 1,000
67 The Amalekite genocide 1 Sam 15:2-3 10,000
68 Samuel hacks Agag to death before the
Lord 1 Sam 15:32-33 1 1
69 In the valley of Elah: Goliath 1 Sam 17:51 , 2
Sam 21:19 1 1
70 David buys a wife with 200 Philistine
foreskins 1 Sam 18:27 200 200
71 The Lord said to David, Go and smite
the Philistines 1 Sam 23:2-5 10,000
72 God killed Nabal (and David got his wife
and other stuff) 1 Sam 25:38 1 1
73 David commits random acts of genocide
for the Philistines 1 Sam 27:8-11 60,000
74 David spends the day killing Amalekites 1 Sam 30:17 1,000
75
God kills Saul, his sons, and his soldiers
(because Saul didn't kill all the
Amalekites)
1 Sam 31:2 , 2
Chr 10:6 4 100
76 David kills the messenger 2 Sam 1:15 1 1
77 David killed, mutilated, and hung Rechab
and Baanah 2 Sam 4:12 2 2
78 God helps David smite the Philistines
from the front and the rear 2 Sam 5:19-25 2,000
79 God killed Uzzah for trying to keep the
ark from falling
2 Sam 6:6-7 , 1
Chr 13:9-10 1 1
80 David killed two-thirds of the Moabite
POWs and enslaved the rest 2 Sam 8:2 667
81 And the Lord gave David victory
wherever he went 2 Sam 8 - 10 65,850 66,850
82 David killed every male in Edom
2 Sam 8:13-14 , 1
Kg 11:15-16 , 1
Chr 18:12 , Ps
60:1
15,000 25,000
83 Thus did David do to all the children of
Ammon
2 Sam 11:1 , 1
Chr 20:1 1,000
84 God slowly kills a baby 2 Sam 12:14-18 1 1
85 Seven sons of Saul are hung up before
the Lord 2 Sam 21:1-9 7 3,000
86 David's mighty men and their amazing
killings
2 Sam 23 , 1 Chr
11 1,403 3,400
87
God killed 70,000 because of David had
a census that God (or Satan) told him to
do
2 Sam 24:15 , 1
Chr 21:14 70,000 200,000
88 Solomon murdered Job and Shimei (per
David's deathbed wish) 1 Kg 2:29-46 2 2
89 A tale of two prophets 1 Kg 13:11-24 1 1
90 Jeroboam's son: God kills another child 1 Kg 14:17 1 1
91 Jeroboam's family 1 Kg 15:29 10
92 Baasha's family and friends 1 Kg 16:11-12 20
93 Zimri burns to death 1 Kg 16:18-19 1 1
94 The drought of Elijah
1 Kg 17:1 , Luke
4:25 , James
5:17-18
3,000
95 Elijah kills 450 religious leaders in a
prayer contest 1 Kg 18:22-40 450 450
96 The first God-assisted slaughter of the
Syrians 1 Kg 20:20-21 10,000
97 God killed 100,000 Syrians for calling
him a god of the hills 1 Kg 20:28-29 100,000 100,000
98 God killed 27,000 Syrians by making a
wall fall on them 1 Kg 20:30 27,000 27,000
99 God sent a lion to kill a man for not
smiting a prophet 1 Kg 20:35-36 1 1
100 God killed Ahab for not killing a captured
king 1 Kg 20:42 , 22:35 1 1
101 God burned 102 men to death for asking
Elijah to come down from his hill 2 Kg 1:10-12 102 102
102 God killed Ahaziah for asking the wrong
God
2 Kg 1:16-17 , 2
Chr 22:7-9 1 1
103 God sent bears to kill 42 boys for making
fun of a prophet's bald head 2 Kg 2:23-24 42 42
104 The Lord delivered the Moabites 2 Kg 3:18-25 5,000
105 A skeptic is trampled to death 2 Kg 7:2-20 1 1
106 God's seven year famine 2 Kg 8:1 7,000
107 Jehoram of Israel 2 Kg 9:24 1 1
108 Jezebel 2 Kg 9:33-37 1 1
109 Ahab's sons: 70 heads in two baskets 2 Kg 10:6-10 70 70
110 Ahab's hometown family, friends, and
priests 2 Kg 10:11 20
111 Jehu killed Ahaziah's family 2 Kg 10:12-13 , 2
Chr 22:7-9 42 42
112 Jehu and his partner kill the rest of
Ahab's family 2 Kg 10:17 20
113 Jehu assembled the followers of Baal
and then slaughtered them all 2 Kg 10:18-25 1,000
114 Mattan the priest of Baal and Queen
Athaliah 2 Kg 11:17-20 2 2
115 God sent lions to eat those who didn't
fear him enough 2 Kg 17:25-26 10
116 An angel killed 185,000 sleeping soldiers 2 Kg 19:34 , 37:36 185,000 185,000
117 God caused King Sennacherib to be
killed by his sons
2 Kg 19:37 , Tobit
1:21 1 1
118 Josiah killed all the priests of the high
places 2 Kg 23:20 100
119 Just another holy war 1 Chr 5:18-22 50,000
120 God killed a half million Israelite soldiers 2 Chr 13:17-18 500,000 500,000
121 Jeroboam 2 Chr 13:20 1 1
122 God killed a million Ethiopians 2 Chr 14:9-14 1,000,000 1,000,000
123 Friendly fire: God forced "a great
multitude" to kill each other 2 Chr 20:22-25 30,000
124 God made Jehoram's bowels fall out 2 Chr 21:14-19 1 1
125 God killed Jehoram's sons 2 Chr 22:1 3
126 Ahaziah of Judah 2 Chr 22:7-8 1 1
127 Joash, the princes, and army of Judah 2 Chr 24:20-25 1 10,000
128 God destroyed Amaziah 2 Chr 25:15-27 1 1,000
129 God smote Ahaz with the king of Syria 2 Chr 28:1-5 1 10,000
130 God killed 120,000 valiant men for
forsaking him 2 Chr 28:6 120,000 120,000
131 The fall of Jerusalem 2 Chr 36:16-17 10,000
132 The Purim killings: God hath done these
things Esther 2 - 9 , 10:4 75,813 75,813
133 God and Satan kill Job's children and
slaves Job 1:18-19 10 60
134 Hananiah Jer 28:15-16 1 1
135 Ezekiel's wife Ezek 24:15-18 1 1
136 Oh! Susanna Dan 13:6-62 2 2
137 Judith is blessed above all women (for
cutting off a sleeping man's head) Judith 13:6-10 1 1
138 The Judith massacre: hang ye up this
head upon our walls Judith 15:1-6 1,000
139 Mathathias's double murder 1 Mac 2:24-25 2 2
140 Mathathias and his friends slay the
wicked sinners 1 Mac 2:44 100
141 God killed Andronicus, the sacrilegious
wretch 2 Mac 4:38 1 1
142 A Jewish mob killed Lysimachus, the
sacrilegious fellow 2 Mac 4:42 1 1
143 God helped Judas Machabeus destroy
the wicked
1 Mac 3:1-26 , 2
Mac 8:5-6 800 4,900
144 Judas and his unarmed men kill 3000 of
Gorgias's soldiers 1 Mac 3:44-4:24 3,000 3,000
145 The Hanukkah killings 1 Mac 4:34 - 5:7 5,000 17,000
146 The Machabees brothers slaughter the
heathens 1 Mac 5:21-51 11,000 37,000
147
Nicanor's army: The Almighty being their
helper, they slew above nine thousand
men
1 Mac 7:32-47 , 2
Mac 8:24 , 15:27 147,002 147,002
148 Jonathan and Simon destroy the wicked
out of Israel
1 Mac 9:46-49 ,
2 Mac 8:30-33 ,
10:61
1,000 1,200
149 Five heavenly horsemen cast darts and
fireballs at the enemy
2 Mac
8:32 - 10:38 21,103 21,400
150 God killed Antiochus with an incurable
bowel disease 2 Mac 9:5-28 1 1
151 Idumeans, traitors, and Jews in two
towers 2 Mac 10:16-17 40,000 40,100
152 Nicanor's head: A manifest sign of the
help of God
1 Mac 7:33-48 , 2
Mac 15:1-35 35,000 35,000
153 Aliens at Cades 1 Mac 11:74 3,000 3,000
154 John burns to death 2000 in the tower
of Azotus 1 Mac 16:10 2,000 2,000
155 God sent wasps to slowly destroy people Wisdom 12:8-9 1,000
156 Ananias and Sapphira Acts 5:5-10 2 2
157 Herod Aggripa Acts 12:23 1 1
158 Jesus Rom 8:32 , 1 Pet
1:1820

Copied

I had thought you don’t believe in God and the Bible?

Convenient atheist!

kingxsamz:


Your delusion continues.

Foolish boy which day will you show us empirical proof for consciousness, mind, logic, maths?

I doubt all those don’t exist in your deluded mind?

kingxsamz:


"Story story, story. Once upon a time, time time"
No one's reading all that bruh.

The stand-off between materialism and the supernatural continues

Dliquidmetal:
[/s] oga nobody ask for all these shalaye,if you are so sure of your assertions then I see no reasons to leave this bag hanging and by the way there's another update I just saw now,you might do well to apply.
Hundreds of thousands of dollars ain't beans

Did you read what I typed?

kingxsamz:
There's a challenge going on right now, and you stand a chance to win 2.5 million naira if you can prove the efficiency of juju/God/gods.
If knives can't cut through you, you can withstand bullets, you can fly, you can disappear, you can raise the dead back to life, you can send fire from the sky, you can restore lost limbs of amputees or any supernatural thing you can do or know someone can do, apply now. It's free. Refer someone you know that has such powers and get to share in the reward. As seen on Twitter.

Those who always say "come to my village", bring your village people now to win 2.5 million.

Lalasticlala, Mynd44

Thread link: https://twitter.com/gbengadewoyin/status/1438072257419661318?s=19

This is the problem with some atheists/skeptics.
Once they have an a priori strict materialism and scientism worldview, anything outside the 5 senses do not exist to them.

Miracles for money back-fire.
God holds the prerogative to perform miracles.
Humans cannot at will try to perform miracles much more for monetary values. That’s like playing God

Miracle exist. Juju exist. God exists. Devil exists. Demons exist. Good exists. Evil exists.


“However, when Simon saw that the [Holy] Spirit was imparted through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he brought money and offered it to them, Saying, Grant me also this power and authority, in order that anyone on whom I place my hands may receive the Holy Spirit. But Peter said to him, Destruction overtake your money and you, because you imagined you could obtain the [free] gift of God with money! You have neither part nor lot in this matter, for your heart is all wrong in God's sight [it is not straightforward or right or true before God]. [Ps. 78:37.] So repent of this depravity and wickedness of yours and pray to the Lord that, if possible, this contriving thought and purpose of your heart may be removed and disregarded and forgiven you. For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in a bond forged by iniquity [to fetter souls]. [Isa. 58:6.] And Simon answered, Pray for me [beseech the Lord, both of you], that nothing of what you have said may befall me!”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:18-24‬ ‭AMPC‬‬
https://www.bible.com/8/act.8.18-24.ampc

LordReed:


No they are not. They are based on observation, there is no belief required.



I didn't say that the universe was chaotic and disorderly. I do say it is mindless and purposeless though.

Once again the laws and theories we have are based on observation and so are descriptive.

What you haven't answered is what any of this needs faith or belief.



Scientific laws are not determination issued by a mind but descriptions of processes observed so how do you leap from that to therefore there is a designer or lawgiver?



You asked budaatum the question. No need to ponder it though since the Bible is not a science text and is subject to any sort of interpretation.

Scientifc laws are placed in the universe by a mind ( God). They weren’t manufactured by science. They are arranged as though they had been designed to respond in a particular order. So they are ordered. For order and laws to exist, there must be a lawgiver and a designer who placed the orders.
This is why science is possible: that the universe acts with rational intelligibility.

Scientific practices are simply hinged on presuppositions ( faith, belief) that certain conditions in nature that had been observed over time by experience would always remain same. If they change, what we know today would then be different. If they change every day, there really might be no established scientific laws as we know them.

Thus you may not notice that belief is involved in the underlying principles of science.
So many a scientist had boasted that they hope science would in the future have answers to many origin , experience and philosophical questions. So we just keep faith and keep hoping

Workch:
Did you pass philosophy and logic GST?
Or maybe you are yet to even get a university admission

You see your life!

I wrote simple sentences that was so difficult for you to understand. You concluded they were philosophical statements when they are not.

Joke is on you poor boy!

budaatum:

I have quoted no "calculations and assumptions about the age" between Gen 1:1 and 2, nor does the Bible give any. You may wish to oblige me however.



You say science is "hinged on the fact that the universe is rationally intelligible to allow certain observations", yet you claim scientists "would continue observing nature and hoping all the conditions are same". Are you somehow claiming scientists ignore the changing conditions or outright close their eyes so as not to see the conditions changing?

A person who does what you claim is no scientist at all, because they are willfully blinding themselves instead of opening their eyes and using all their senses to ask and knock and seek, which is what science is.



Science does not talk. It is humans who speak, some after using their heart and soul and mind and being to ask and knock and seek.

If I am not mistaken, you had made reference to no of years or something. That was why I asked you to show me from Genesis 1. I don’t have the answers cause the Bible didn’t say.

You didn’t deny the fact that science is hinged on presuppositions ( faith and belief) that the conditions in nature that allow scientific observations will remain same for same laws to exist.

If individuals speak for science using their minds, soul and heart, then scientific data cannot be completely empirical.
Several scientists would run data and make philosophical decisions on what results to come up with based on worldview, parties interested in the data, funding etc.
That would lead to varying results from different scientists. A Christian scientist will say all records point to a designer God in the universe.
A skeptical scientist would say there is order without anyone in charge.

Is that the science you think is based on empirical facts?

kingxsamz:


You've run out of points.
At least you're the one who admitted that there are holes in your bible story. The so called "God's words".

I saw how that guy shut you up after you shot yourself in the foot. And since you couldn't counter, you claimed he didn't understand your point. This is what happens when you want to defend rubbish written by ignorant folks 2000 years ago.

You should be concerned more with your deficiency in comprehension.
Those were simple lines.

kingxsamz:


You've run out of points.
At least you're the one who admitted that there are holes in your bible story. The so called "God's words".

I saw how that guy shut you up after you shot yourself in the foot. And since you couldn't counter, you claimed he didn't understand your point. This is what happens when you want to defend rubbish written by ignorant folks 2000 years ago.

Did you pass JAMB use of English?

1Sharon:


The communication is not the issue. How did Noah get himself to different parts of the world to tell people about a flood?

Read through the chats.
All his arguments were weak and had been refuted successfully. Or maybe you have new ones?

1Sharon:



Did you just admit the Bible has holes ?

Should I be held responsible for your literary?

kingxsamz:




Comedian. Dem ask you simple question you dey mention End sars. You don finally shift goal post comot for field.
I thought "God's word" is infailable. How come you're admitting that it has holes? You literally compared your god's words to the End Sars saga. This one na own goal.

I just wonder how you keep missing simple points!

Your comprehension capacity is very low.

kingxsamz:


You this guy again.
So you actually believe that the so called Noah went to every part of the world where people were in existence and tried to convince them to follow him back home thousands of miles away? If an unknown Chinese man comes to your town and tells you to pack your load and follow him back to his village because of rain, will you follow him? How did Noah know exactly where to go to and places he could find humans? How was he able to find his way back home after trekking thousands upon thousands of miles? so many senseless nonsense just full this una bible.
omo.
Religion sha. Making grown men think like kids who are scared of the boogey monster.

Stop making a mess of a simple thing.
This happened before the Tower of Babel.
You can argue with Christians about the Bible but are too lazy to study the Bible first.

MaxInDHouse:


Well it's only those with whom we share the same line of thought that we know as Christians {Matthew 12:46-50} not just those claiming Christians! Matthew 7:21-23
So if you're not one of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES then know that you and i aren't worshiping the same God, that's why i will never have anything to do with you in sacred matters like praying together or singing together!

Lol!

I like your nice touch of humor.
You seem like a trouble maker.

I will visit your congregation and pray and sing with you.
Do you still meet at Benin for annual programmes? We will see there.

By the way, every time anyone witness for Jesus Christ in evangelism and outreaches, he or she is a witness for God. Don’t localize that name to yourself. We all are ambassadors for Christ.
Like Paul said in Acts 17, for we also ate his offspring...

“We are ambassadors therefore on behalf of Christ, as though God were entreating by us: we beseech you on behalf of Christ, be ye reconciled to God. Him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf; that we might become the righteousness of God in him.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:20-21‬ ‭ASV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/12/2co.5.20-21.asv

LordReed:


When you ask me a proper question I will respond.



You don't get it. If the universe changes today scientists are not going to put hands on their heads and start wailing about how their beliefs have been shattered, they'll instead be scrambling to take the new observations. Meaning, I don't see where belief fits into this. Simply observing the universe with its physical laws that have remained unchanged requires no faith or belief since you are merely watching and recording, any changes will similarly be seen and observed so how does faith or belief figure in it? We don't have faith it won't change seeing as we are merely observing that it hasn't changed. What would be the purpose of having faith here?

So you agree that the current scientific laws and theories are based on presuppositions ( belief/faith) that the current status quo in nature isn’t altered?

You didn’t respond to the rational intelligibility of the universe that makes science and scientific observations possible.
If the universe and its laws were chaotic, purposeless, disorderly and mindless, won’t we get varying results for same scientific tests performed over same conditions? Would the laws and theories we have be possible?

No. They won’t. So there is order. There are laws. There is a designer. There is a law giver.

Back to my question which you have avoided yet found it important to estimate the age of the earth from Genesis. What is the time frame between Genesis 1:1 and verse 2? You think the question is irrelevant? Lol! Yet you think your assumptions about the age of the earth to ridicule Christins from same book is appropriate.

You don’t have to have the answer. It’s for you to ponder on.

MaxInDHouse:

Well that's what you see so you're entitled to what you can see!


Arguments doesn't always make people evil, Paul was an argumentator always arguing against Christ's group until Jesus called him because Paul wasn't hypocritical with his arguments. So if you argue for righteousness it's good.

Even if i should expatiate your preconceived thought that all those claiming Christians are Christians will not let you see the light but i will answer your questions because of others who truly wants to know the truth.

What is the narrow way?
Before the coming of John the baptist and Jesus whoever is in Israel worshiping in the temple with a pure heart is accepted but after John's arrival only those going to get baptized by John are in the narrow path to life {Matthew 11:12} that's why Jesus despite being the Christ must set the standard to help others {Matthew 3:13-15} then after Jesus began his ministry John's work ends so all those who wants to worship God acceptably must join Jesus' group {John 1:35-37 compare to John 3:25-30} So whoever remains in the former Jewish religion or John's baptism or any other religion is already on the broad road leading to destruction everyone must join Jesus' group! Luke 18:22

That's the setting in the first century so that all worshipers of God may have the same line of thought regarding beliefs and tenets of pure worship! John 4:24 compare to John 17:20-23

What is the broad way?
The broad way is all religions that are teaching people what they thought is good either in the name of God or Jesus but aren't ready to conform to the same line of thought with their fellow believers. They only want to hear that people can be worshipers of God in any religion as long as they're calling God's name or Jesus' name {Matthew 7:21-23} they don't want to subject themselves to any form of tenet restraining them from pleasing themselves. Satan is their leader {John 8:44} he just wants to present himself as a child of God who knows his own mind but never ready to subject himself to the same rules as other children of God! Job 1:6

Today there are many sects claiming denominations of one religion yet each of them have different ideas and opinions so a person can switch from one sect to another as if he's traveling on the expressway with many lanes yet claiming worshipers of the same God. That's what BROAD WAY means! Matthew 7:13-14

May you have PEACE!

Frankly speaking, I like avoiding arguments with fellow Christians. I will rather I did that with skeptics than with you. I have so many things to say to you but what will we achieve at the end?


Yes it’s biblical to argue sometimes. Paul did it severally and used it to win intellectuals to his side. Jesus also reasoned with the Jews and religious leaders at different occasions. Even his disciples were always interrogated by the Jews. That’s an established fact.

It is too presumptuous for anyone to think they are better Christians than the others or even worse to think other Christians are pagans.
Simple qualification in the Bible: believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and that God raised him from the dead, and thou shall be saved.

That hasn’t changed. Other things are secondary just like the writer in Hebrews said we need to leave the basics behind and strive towards growth.

It might interest you to know that I had a Jehovah’s Witness close friend all through Secondary school. All the arguments we had then are more than enough.

“Wherefore leaving the doctrine of the first principles of Christ, let us press on unto perfection; not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, of the teaching of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:1-3‬ ‭ASV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/12/heb.6.1-3.asv

Fuckjesusandgod:
Counter the facts na oga

Lol!
You came late actually. Read through the comments