₦airaland Forum

And where have you been, InesQor?

BTW, aren't you forgetting something? (hint: appointment with someone!)

^^^ I agree with you but still, ,

One other misused Biblical quote is "My people die for lack of knowledge". MOGs as they are called use this to brow-beat people into tithes and "sowing" saying the absence and/or insufficiency of such is the reason for their financial woes. Thats why people like Lawrence Agaba decided to up the ante by taking money that wasn't his to Christ Embassy. Such abound particularly in Theft Christ Embassy. But the Bible continues the above statement saying "because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you". I take the import of that statement to be that ignorance is self imposed and we will pay for it.

All we need do is follow the Biblical injunction and "Look in the scroll of the Lord and read; none of these shall be missing, not one will lack her mate. For it is His mouth that has given the order, and His Spirit will gather them together. HE ALLOTS THEIR PORTIONS, his hand distributes them by measure, they will possess it forever and dwell there from generation to generation" Is 34: 16 & 17.

There is a portion for us (not whatever we decide to claim) and God has given the order (not any pastor). But we shall find our portion when we open God's Word and "see" what He has "alloted" to us. The faith of our fathers (Abraham etc) and the Apostles was simple: THEY BELIEVED GOD through thick and thin, wet and shine and got fulfillment in God the GOD way! And as far as the Bible is concerned, Christianity's reward is not here on earth but in Heaven which would be seen to follow from the context of the quote from Isaiah above. Paul despaired at the thought that he was wrong! Were he enjoying the dominion of this world, would he have done so?

The reader would be well advised to consider that!

No one says Christians ought be poor or beggarly but there is a process to wealth and health which is equally available to both believer and unbeliever and is disparate from "faith". Luck (the Bible calls it time and chance), hardwork, patience and perseverance usually lead to wealth for all men regardless of religious affiliation. But these fraudsters pastors would have it otherwise - problem is they haven't explained why Bill Gates, Oprah and Saudi's King Fahd are wealthier than any MOG on earth though they do not pay tithes. Abi na CE King Fahd dey pay tithe?

This thread, https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-439112.32.html and https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-439560.0.html remind me of God telling Elijah that He had reserved 7, 000 men who had not bowed to Baal. Its rather obvious that quite a number of Christians are aware of the truth and are now ready to speak it out.

"Baal" today obviously, is "the money-god" and its prophets are now being exposed as chalartans who use the name of God to fleece humans. Well, we cannot (nor have the inclination to) slaughter them like Elijah did BUT we will drive them back into the streets out of their "419" palaces on the pulpit.

^^^ Rather obvious to all of us, ain't it, Enigma?

God is not subject to our Words whether we call them "sowing" OR "claiming" OR "prophetic" OR "er[b]ROR[/b]"!

No-one ought reply this chap.

Dude, go find salvation!

Oral roberts? Jim Bakker? Jimmy Swargart? Peter Popoff? Robert Tilton? Bob Jones? Jamie Buckingham? Earl Paulk? Clarence McClendon? Roberts Liardon? Paul Crouch? Paul Cain? Ted Haggard? Richard Roberts (family inherited curses ehn?)? Juanita Bynum? Randy and Paula White? Todd Bentley? Michael Guglielmucci?

So who is left out amongst the WOFers? And now Erelu is claiming she gave our people here their power and Oyaks answer when quizzed about why he didn't refute her and other such claims is "because I am greater than them".

Lets come closer home! Reinhard Bonnke claims Nigerian Pastor Eku "DIED" and was brought back to life by his own anointing. Although it can not be established if or not Eku ever died and came back to life due to a shortage of medical and legal evidence, what has been both legally and medically established beyond the pale of any doubt whatsoever is the death of 14 Bonnke devotees crushed to death at just one of Bonnke's Nigerian crusades alone, and the pending law suit for 60 million Naira that goes with it. The parents of one of the dead, a little baby girl, tried unsuccessfully to get the body to Bonnke hoping he would raise her from the dead. The family then did the next best thing and laid the body on Bonnke’s Mercedes Benz in the hope of the baby coming back to life. Apparently they were putting their faith in the ‘anointing’ of the faith healer. Yet Bonnke claims, 'When I step on a platform, often without any touch of mine, the blind begin to see, the deaf to hear, the dumb to speak and the cripples to walk. The baby remained dead!

All during the first 2 1/2 days of the New Orleans conference (The "North American Congress on the Holy Spirit and World Evangelization" was held July 22-25, 1987, an ecumenical conference of Protestants and Catholics), there were dozens of instances of speaking in tongues, being slain by the Spirit, falling on the floor, and other practices. Yet, on Friday night after African Evangelist Reinhard Bonnke spoke, between 35,000-40,000 people stood on their feet in response to his invitation for salvation. These were the very same people who for over two days had been speaking in tongues and expressing their desire to evangelize the world. It was a frightful sight. Bonnke repeated his invitation so that all would understand that he was speaking of salvation. The thousands remained standing. He then led them into a form of a sinner's prayer which shows how confused they were about salvation.

See link for more exposes on this "mog" and many others - http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/rbonnke.html

I sincerely hope (for their sakes) that Joagbaje and Tonye-tithes come here, read, quietly go away and repent!

Anointed indeed!

But why would people prefer to be lied to? OR is there some form of occultic spiritual manipulation involved? It doesn't make any sense seeing as they gain nothing and stand to lose most everything

Starting to seem obvious why God said some of these people were not fit to live.

The gall of it  

And you still need to remove your nose from erROR and stick it into the Bible!

I understand - Oga is looking over your shoulder and you are worried about your percentage coming sunday, ehn?

Jesoul,

is this a joke?

Please God, let her reply "yes"

KunleOshob:
expected response from joagbaje

@Kunle:

Where's his response? Shey this Kabbashing below -

Joagbaje:
;d ;d ;d ;d ;d ;d ;d ;d ;d

Whether na incantation in "code" abi na "cursing in CE Kingdom tongues" we no know - but we know finally, Joagbaje is speechless and cannot voice out his fears at the truth that is starting to come out. 

";d ;d ;d ;d ;d ;d ;d ;d ;d" indeed! 

QUOTE
lies have short legs; good in the short run but poor in the long run"
UNQUOTE

^^^ And Joagbaje too is consistent - in PRIDE and CONCEIT.

Though I apologised "in case" i was wrong to say so, and though there were really serious issues brought up by Enigma, Aletheia and myself, the only thing that matters to him is his "DIGNITY" and that he is not like some of "us guys"

Yes, you are not Sir, for we study God's Word to show ourselves approved and know our place in God's creation. You on the other hand, aside being deluded to thinking yourself more than a man, do not even know Moses DIED and need to wait for the book of erRORs to have a post concerning Moses death before you agree/disagree he died .

PRIDE, DELUSION, GREED, IGNORANCE and SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS are not a part of my life so you are not like me, thank you.

^^^ Always Sir, your depth of thought inspires.

Never thought of it like that yet surely it is true that anyone truly with a heart for God will fight against wolves, bears and lions coming into the midst of God's Flock! And truly too, we see them arising against us. To no avail, I must add, for with God behind us, none can prevail!

Still searching the web for reason and found this

Furthermore, the question must be asked, "Who do you wish to defend; the self- proclaimed teacher and preacher that you love and adore, or the sovereign God of the universe whose commands and doctrines you deny WHEN you support and defend that which is false, heretical, immoral or illegal?"

Scripture specifically prohibits the following items

Scripture prohibits FALSE DOCTRINE
Titus 1:9, Colossians 3:8, 1 Timothy 4:1-2, 2 Peter 2:3, 2 Peter 3:17

Scripture prohibits FALSE PROPHETS
Deuteronomy 18:20-22, Isaiah 9:14-17, Jeremiah 5:31, Jeremiah 14:14-16, Jeremiah 23:16-40, Ezekiel 13:1-23, 2 Peter 2:1

Scripture prohibits LYING PASTORS
1 Timothy 3:8 Titus 1:7, 2 Peter 2:3

Scripture prohibits IMMORAL PASTORS
1 Timothy 3:2, 2 Peter 2:2

Scripture prohibits SELF-WILLED pastors
2 Peter 2:10

Scripture prohibits pastors who DESPISE AUTHORITY
2 Peter 2:10

Scripture prohibits pastors who REVILE* or REBUKE** ANGELS and SATAN
2 Peter 2:10-11, Jude 8-10
*REVILE: to regard or treat as vile; to use abusive or contemptuous language in speaking to or about; call bad names.
**REBUKE: to address in sharp and severe disapproval; reprimand.

Scripture prohibits DRUNKEN PASTORS
1 Timothy 3:3,8, Titus 1:7

Scripture prohibits MATERIALISTIC PASTORS
1 Timothy 3:3, Titus 1:7, 2 Peter 2:3

Scripture prohibits THIEVING PASTORS
1 Timothy 3:8

QUESTIONS, QUESTIONS, QUESTIONS
If you object to one or more of the following questions, then please support your objection from Scripture. If you cannot successfully do that, and continue to be an objector, then you have condemned yourself according to Matthew 7:1-2.

Why would anyone object to a preacher or teacher being called to accountability for teaching false doctrine?
Why would anyone object to a preacher or teacher being called to accountability for teaching a false salvation message?
Why would anyone object to a preacher or teacher being called to accountability for teaching heresy?
Why would anyone object to a preacher or teacher being called to accountability for speaking prophecies that are false?
Why would anyone object to a preacher or teacher being called to accountability for claiming to heal and then being unable to provide proof of their claims?
Why would anyone object to a preacher or teacher being called to accountability for claiming that they are a god or equal to God?
Why would anyone object to a preacher or teacher being called to accountability for saying God approves or disapproves of that which is specifically stated to be the opposite in the Scripture?
Why would anyone object to a preacher of teacher being called to accountability for stating that God told them something that is specifically denied in the Scripture?
Why would anyone object to a preacher or teacher being called to accountability for sexual immorality?
Why would anyone object to a preacher or teacher being called to accountability for drunkenness or drug abuse?
Why would anyone object to a preacher or teacher being called to accountability for lying?
Why would anyone object to a preacher being called to accountability for raising money for for a specific purpose and then using that money for their own personal use?
Why would anyone object to a preacher or teacher being called to accountability for illegal activities of any type?
Why would anyone object to a preacher being called to accountability for claiming that they are exempt from accountability to the laws of God?
Why would anyone object to a preacher being called to accountability based on Biblical principles and the application of the direct words of God, Jesus Christ or true prophets and apostles as revealed in the Scripture?

False teachers, false prophets and immoral pastors will continue to be exposed, because the life of the apostles reveal the false character they have, the Scriptures reveal their condemnation, Jesus Christ warns of their deceit and God will not allow their escape.

@PastorAIO;

Are you numbered in the "hosts of hell"? Sincere question (no pun or whatever intended) - what exactly do you subscribe to (religious belief) and who/what do you pastor? And yes, you were right, this section is the only one where you find this level of "enlightened" diction and reasoning.

@Jesoul:

First picture we should be looking for is yours

Scripture in the New Testament defines who the "anointed" are, and they are not a special class of teachers and preachers who are self-proclaimed to have a unique position in relation to God. The anointed are all Christians in concert as stated by the apostle John, "But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know. . . . As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him," 1 John 2:20, 27 (NAS).

False teachers and false prophets even attempt to circumvent that reality by claiming that they are not only anointed like every other Christian, they are doubly anointed, claiming they are twice as significant and important in the eyes of God as their followers, and then they claim that their ministry is anointed also. Perverting the Scripture in order to maintain their self-proclaimed status, they exalt themselves to a position which they do not have, and undiscerning Christians support them in their outrageous claims and in the process submit the Bible to the authority of their teachers instead of demanding that their teachers come under the authority of the Bible.

Christians are deceived by their false teachers and preachers, because they willfully ignore what the Scripture says, and as a consequence they deceive themselves, resulting in deception by others.

[b]It is unacceptable to use 1 Chronicles 16:22 as a defense against speaking against teachers and preachers, because of the absurdity of taking that position. The prohibitions in the time of the Old Testament reveal the problem, because Deuteronomy 18:20 states that false prophets must be put to death, Deuteronomy 13:1-5 states that no one must follow a false prophet and that those false prophets should be put to death. Deuteronomy 13:6-10 states that even family members who teach false doctrines should be put to death. How is it possible that the prophecies and doctrines of prophets could be revealed to be false, or that they could be condemned to death, unless charges were made against them and their prophecies revealed to be false by a comparison with the Scripture? If no one spoke against the prophets, it could never be said that they were false prophets and no judgment would ever be applied against them, which would have been a direct violation of the command of God. Even prophets are not exempt from the scrutiny of their doctrines and prophecies through a comparison with Scripture.[/b]

Many Christians would claim that the only proper response to immoral and illegal conduct, and the false teaching of many Christian leaders, is not to confront it, but only to pray for those individuals. It is well that we should pray for them, but many Christians engage in pointless prayers by constantly seeking guidance, when it is already revealed in the Scripture and their prayers go amiss when they continue to support and accept leadership that is specifically condemned by the Scripture.

Many in the Christian world claim that Christians should simply be loving, caring, accepting and tolerant with no doctrinal differences becoming an issue. They would claim that all deviant actions of their favorite religious leaders should be forgiven and accepted with no punishment applied, even when no true repentance is ever expressed. However, that is a false application of forgiveness. Truly, the heart of the Christian doctrine is forgiveness, but it is forgiveness obtained at a terrible price, that being the death of Jesus Christ on the cross by which he took the punishment for sins committed by humanity. Who pays the price for the actions of false teachers, false prophets and immoral preachers, which Christians are supposed to forgive? It is those false teachers, prophets and immoral preachers who are then allowed to continue in their excesses without accountability and it is those who have been deceived, abused and robbed who pay the price, and will continue to pay the price because the actions will continue. Even forgiveness by God is predicated on repentance by the forgiven and not forgiveness with continuation in that which is to be forgiven. Is a murderer forgiven only to be allowed to kill again? The apostle Paul addressed the issue specifically, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?" Romans 6:1-2 (NAS).

What many Christians are advocating is not forgiveness, but sanction without discernment, which is a much different circumstance than forgiveness.

- Culled

@WOFers:

Scripture in the New Testament defines who the "anointed" are, and they are not a special class of teachers and preachers who are self-proclaimed to have a unique position in relation to God. The anointed are all Christians in concert as stated by the apostle John, "But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know. . . . As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him," 1 John 2:20, 27 (NAS).

False teachers and false prophets even attempt to circumvent that reality by claiming that they are not only anointed like every other Christian, they are doubly anointed, claiming they are twice as significant and important in the eyes of God as their followers, and then they claim that their ministry is anointed also. Perverting the Scripture in order to maintain their self-proclaimed status, they exalt themselves to a position which they do not have, and undiscerning Christians support them in their outrageous claims and in the process submit the Bible to the authority of their teachers instead of demanding that their teachers come under the authority of the Bible.

Christians are deceived by their false teachers and preachers, because they willfully ignore what the Scripture says, and as a consequence they deceive themselves, resulting in deception by others.

It is unacceptable to use 1 Chronicles 16:22 as a defense against speaking against teachers and preachers, because of the absurdity of taking that position. The prohibitions in the time of the Old Testament reveal the problem, because Deuteronomy 18:20 states that false prophets must be put to death, Deuteronomy 13:1-5 states that no one must follow a false prophet and that those false prophets should be put to death. Deuteronomy 13:6-10 states that even family members who teach false doctrines should be put to death. How is it possible that the prophecies and doctrines of prophets could be revealed to be false, or that they could be condemned to death, unless charges were made against them and their prophecies revealed to be false by a comparison with the Scripture? If no one spoke against the prophets, it could never be said that they were false prophets and no judgment would ever be applied against them, which would have been a direct violation of the command of God. Even prophets are not exempt from the scrutiny of their doctrines and prophecies through a comparison with Scripture.

Many Christians would claim that the only proper response to immoral and illegal conduct, and the false teaching of many Christian leaders, is not to confront it, but only to pray for those individuals. It is well that we should pray for them, but many Christians engage in pointless prayers by constantly seeking guidance, when it is already revealed in the Scripture and their prayers go amiss when they continue to support and accept leadership that is specifically condemned by the Scripture.

Many in the Christian world claim that Christians should simply be loving, caring, accepting and tolerant with no doctrinal differences becoming an issue. They would claim that all deviant actions of their favorite religious leaders should be forgiven and accepted with no punishment applied, even when no true repentance is ever expressed. However, that is a false application of forgiveness. Truly, the heart of the Christian doctrine is forgiveness, but it is forgiveness obtained at a terrible price, that being the death of Jesus Christ on the cross by which he took the punishment for sins committed by humanity. Who pays the price for the actions of false teachers, false prophets and immoral preachers, which Christians are supposed to forgive? It is those false teachers, prophets and immoral preachers who are then allowed to continue in their excesses without accountability and it is those who have been deceived, abused and robbed who pay the price, and will continue to pay the price because the actions will continue. Even forgiveness by God is predicated on repentance by the forgiven and not forgiveness with continuation in that which is to be forgiven. Is a murderer forgiven only to be allowed to kill again? The apostle Paul addressed the issue specifically, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?" Romans 6:1-2 (NAS).

What many Christians are advocating is not forgiveness, but sanction without discernment, which is a much different circumstance than forgiveness.

Why is it anytime truth starts to emerge, we suddenly have an influx of single/double digit posters come to support you WOF? Whats the solidarity about? I apologise if I'm wrong but Joagbaje, there's no need to keep signing in and out so it looks like there is support for false doctrines. Lies cannot become truth no matter how many people scream and bandy them about!

@Lord Viaro:

welcome to this thread!

@Joagbaje

My sincere advise for you right now Sir, is to take your nose out of ROR and read the Bible

Joagbaje:
Elijah was caught up bodily to heaven but for Moses, Their had been series of debate by bible scholars if he died,or was caught up to heaven like Elijah, Some also alleged that it was his spirit satan came for and not his body and that he was taken to heaven . Well whatever the case we no that there is mystery about Moses death. I dont have details on this maybe i will further study.

^^ Deut 34: 5 - 7  "And Moses, the servant of the Lord DIED there in Moab, as the Lord had said. He buried him in Moab, in the valley opposite Beth Peor, but to this day no one knows where his grave is. Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he DIED, yet his eyes were not weak nor his strength gone"

Which brings me to my question for you in light of your "debates" above. Is it Chris Oyakilome or who that is debating whether God lied that Moses DIED? See what you guys have become? For this is one you set and sprung for yourself i.e. - you are planning to study the works of men to know if God's Word is telling the truth.

BTW, you said you may not have understood a question I asked clearly. Let me try again - Jesus said the least in the Kingdom of God is greater than the Baptist. That statement was made in the present tense not future tense. Is it a possibility that the people who were already in the Kingdom WHEN Jesus was speaking were the ones He referred to as greater? Secondly, are you in the Kingdom of God or maybe I should make this clearer - During any of his homosexual encounters - during, mind you, - and being in the Kingdom of God as you say we are now, was Liardon greater than John the Baptist? I want you to remember I'm asking about during periods when He was in homosexual congress with the other pastor! Please let me know this!

Finally, I AM a Child of God and yes, I sin. But I do NOT call myself a "god" or say that whist still sinful, dependent on Grace and subject to the vagaries of the lusts of life, that I am greater than [1] the Apostles of Christ [2] Moses who stood before God and spoke with Him "face to face" as a friend doeth, in the similitude of a man [3] Elijah who could as a man stand and get the Heavens to withhold rain for three years over the land of God's people and then again showed up at the transfiguration Glorified with Christ.

Your ideas (amongst others) go too far and only show a bent towards delusion. You also insult Jesus making His Lordship a "na all of us" affair and embarrass God saying He hangs around only to run and do your biding once you have enough faith. Remember that the spirit is subject to the prophet and that even when we cry, we still see. Subject whatever in you is bouncing and turning you into a yo-yo

Joagbaje:

Clicked reply only to see this your recent post. Did you ever consider that those alluded to by Jesus as being in the kingdom of heaven might "be already there" and that we AND John the Baptist will join them at the same time - after judgement? Your penchant for assuming you are right is disturbing

Back to my post:

I'm searching for a way to not sound scornful or judgemental for I susupect thats what you see. However, I'm only finding it ridiculous that someone with your diction and communication skills can believe this "travesty" of reason. It makes me believe you have a vested interest  which usually translate to "that is where your wealth is stored up".

You say you cannot speak for any other man. Then you say we could ask about your pastor! Is he not a man? And when did you become God to know his motives and mind?

You say Liardon is no longer homosexual "IF" he has asked God for forgiveness. Please does this apply to him continuing in the "kingdom of homosexuality"? BTW, did you ever consider that for all we know, he may have been involved with this all the while he wrote "God's Generals". Do you believe in the end justifying the means at any cost?

Don't make this "emotional" - I have no kerchiefs! you can check Proverbs for the definition of "fool"or see it expounded well at https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-434436.160.html#msg5966873. In contrast to those definitions, I called majority of your "audiences" MUMUS. That (and I know you know) translates to gullible, naive, trusting NOT FOOLS. Pastor, is lying a virtue?

Did you re-consider before stating openly that Christians are re-created in their spirits and demonic possession etc is in the body or mind? Do you realise that means Robert Liardon's Spirit is for Heaven whist body etc is condemned? Why stop sin then, Pastor, since all of that is physical and it is only the spirit that matters? I told you, this is not the pulpit. And now we see why Ikeja love-peddlers enjoy CE. No conviction of sin, just dancing, merriment and rejoicing in sinfulness.

I never attacked Robert Liardon. Sad story and I pray he's truly found God again - but have you considered the level of deceit before he was found out? If he wasn't found out, you'd be hammering it at us that he is a "god". I just want you to realise the same can apply to Oyakilome tomorrow. He's just a man! Its you guys that say "No, we are clean and gods". Thats why that was thrown before you!

And here you say again that sin doesn;t make a Christian a sinner! What then makes him a sinner? Was the Bible lying when it said "Let God be true and every man a Liar"? Abi liars are righteous? What are you doing, sir? Can't you see this is delusion trying to make yourself what you are not?

Finally, the "dead in Christ shall rise first". True, it says so! But let me ask you sir, was it Moses' dead body and Elijah's dead body that appeared at the transfiguration? Are they dead or in Glory NOW? Categorical sweeping declarations are what we know what we call "WOFers" for. Most are misleading is the problem and they affect God's children.

Do you know what you're doing? exactly what the RCC did when it restricted access to the Bible for centuries and rather, preferred to issue its own canons and doctrines. You are interpreting God's Word. There is danger in that for the Word says "the scripture is not for any PRIVATE interpretation".

BTW, I apologise for infering you said Moses was slated for Hellfire. But except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of " ". Thats why I basically helped you finish what you started but now have come to see as a travesty!

@DeepSight:

The only bad impression I get from you is the DELIBERATE BIAS towards error when Jesus is discussed. Aside that, you will remember the respect I have stated for your mind.

However, the language directed towards you in a few posts on this thread amused me and remembering Viaro, it seems almost a gangup. The spirit behind my post then was amusement and not ridicule. But I am affiliated to the "Carpenter" so you may continue the bias against me.

I wonder why you didn't find anything against MyJoe who's suddenly "liking" Romeo4real. Oh, I remember - he's not Christian!

^^ And that is my problem with shifting goal posts etc.

Robert Liardon is born again, spirit filled, kingdom empowered. A fellow heir (infact same) as Jesus Christ, a "god" having dominion over all things especially the financial commitments of his congregation. Sinless (so much so he cannot be UNrighteous).
B U T
tiny meagre "man doing man" horrible demons (which Joagbaje and every other sinless Christian including Lawrence Agaba can cast out) invaded and took over his life (the life of Jesus's mate ) in effect, took over the life of Jesus, seeing as Jesus is same as "WOFers" who have faith! ? I suppose that means if Jesus takes a nap or turns His back, "Legion would pounce into Him.

Your problem is the grand pulpit which has allowed you preach "BShit" unhindered and unchallenged since the "mugus" just sit and are encouraged not to listen but to cheer and dance. Well, this is not a pulpit and here, you deal with "God renewed minds", not "CEC controlled mumus". It would be well you read all, sit down and decide to return to God.

Faith (the true type) is good. We all request for healing, prosperity, joy and do not wish bad health, pain or sorrow BUT God has the final say, not us. Our faith is simple: even in the valley of the shadow of death, we fear no evil, for we know God is with us, taking us to a destination we know not but He does and knowing His Will for us is for good. Whatever we face then, God be praised for good will come out of it.

@Romeo4real:

Are you sure you don't answer the moniker "Viaro" on occasion? Whatever, I'm loving you, bro. Big Time!!

DeepSight may end up with only the name the way he's being slapped, kicked, bashed, whipped, assaulted, gang-banged etc all over NL. Seems Yahweh has the last laugh on you guy! His children (plenty of them too) seem to find it so easy to stick ceremonial swords (scabbards and lanyards included) up your behind, SIDEWAYS! You might want to move over to the romance section.

Pastor Joagbaje:

Of course I sin and make mistakes and FYI, I do not see them as small mistakes. And I know how it is that I feel when my lusts get the better of my inner desire for God. It is you that claims you are righteous and not a sinner calling God liar when His Word says let God be true and all men liars. You it was that said Moses wasn't born again and so is subject to hellfire and that Robert Liardon is to be believed because he's born-again and thus by inference from your former definition, is sinless, righteous and teaching Moses, Enoch, Elijah, Elisha and the angels of God what righteousness is. I wonder what righteousness can be found in his bung-hole!

But now, you softpedal and change to "OT saints were redeemed by the blood of the LAMB". Which lamb? The one Alfa Sule killed for last Ileya or the one a car ran over in front of RCCG camp on the expressway last saturday? You also change to me sinning - so you do agree we are not righteous? But Jesus was, abi? Yet you say you and Jesus are on the same pedestal! consider the contradiction! Listen to yourself and see why people make fun of Christianity. You are ridiculing God when you make Him on no import but to hang around with running shoes on waiting to "sprint" in obeisance at your command.

Can't you see what you're doing? Moving the goalpost all over, changing belief as you go along and sounding pompous trying to assert an asinine yet comical superiority. Thank God others are reading.

Finally, what is a man of God? Did you ever read that WE ALL are a royal priesthood? Have you forgotten God is no respecter of persons? Who told you (prove it) that I do not have the same anointing before God or even higher than your age-mates who you worship/esteem as high priests (defined by what book aside ROR)? Do you think all of us have no skills, education or nothing else to use to make a living and thus, for fear of going hungry, follow men like us? For what else would make a man, sound in mind and body, follow this rot if not the allure of stolen waters and free cash and the delusion of eating his cake yet having it?

I, and anyone else who is a Christian (in deed as well as in talk) AM a man of God. When Paul rebuked Peter, why doesn;t the Bible tell us that he "mocked" or was "blaspheming"? Rubbish (your fear based doctrine) with the ingredients of nsala soup! Apostle Peter accepted correction without playing Holy! Those who talk "Christism" but bend naked before other men were spoken to by James when he said "Faith without works is dead". My life shows my faith. Their own words announce what you "think" is their faith. But their life reveals their true faith. Shifting goal posts in support of obvious errors for the sake of filthy lucre also shows a faith. In what? You decide using the Bible, Sir!

@Image123:

To show you what Aletheia is saying that you seem to have misunderstood, go through the first few verses of Deut 26 and see God's directives concerning the tithe and WHO it belongs to.

Again, Christ is the Head, we are the body. Together then, we make up one person, right? Each person (being spiritual) lives in a body. When Mal 3 says bring all the tithes into my house, does it not make sense that you bring it into the body of Christ and help the needy just as the Apostles did? Everyone in the body is part of Christ, not just your pastor! Help the needy, not a greedy pastor driving 3 SUVs and requesting cash to build a 50, 000 seat capacity air-conditioned designer auditorium when members of his congregation trek to work and church and cannot pay their bills. Do you take care of just your nose? or bathe just your head leaving the rest to stink. Or treat wounds only in your hands leaving those on your feet to rot?

Note that Deut 26 does what the Apostles did. Everyone shared - the poor, stranger, widow and fatherless. It was only after these got that the apostles may have considered themselves and we do not even have a single example that they did.

I already answered you, Enigma and you ought not stress our question (and reality) evading pastor. Kingdom Revelation Knowledge that Jesus and the Apostles and the Word of GOd did not know then has revealed homosexuality is fine as long as you're a WOFer. We know Jesus said let the Wheat and weeds grow together. When the time is ripe, separation will be done. In the meantime, yes, Moses is learning the joys of homosexuality on the pulpit. Imagine being under that anointing and excitedly dancing and claiming? What "amazing" fruit would be gleaned from that!

Liardon and his worship pastor ehn? I laugh in WOFer tongues 'sham sham sham mad mad mad idiotic nonsense sham sham sham plus deceit". Trying to imagine Liardon saying "Hey, after service, come service me behind the altar and consecrate it with thy holy seed"

Whatever happened to Berean Christianity or the messages Jesus had for the churches in Revelation? I guess the "spewing out" part was a mistake. Thank God for "revelation knowledge"

@Romeo4real:

What you ought do is go to DeepSight's profile and check his previous posts. If you can find a single one that shows objectivity when Christianity is being discussed, I'll eat snake meat! This is some form of imagined vendetta and he doesn't realise he's actually coming across as without depth and insincere when he argues thus. You would be better served arguing with Mazaje who for all his seeming aversion to christianity, comes across as sincere and will actually back down or apologize if you show maturity and sense. DeepSight will never do so and is ready to throw the most inane "amazing" arguments you'll hear just to "win". Who he's winning, I wonder!

Read his reply to my post (this) - He'll tell us how he's been searching since 10 years old for truth and has gallivanted through the eastern religions. Though he's left them, he holds on to them in attitude which makes you wonder. For someone in High school some 16 years back, one would assume early thirties. A 20+ year search is not likely to have failed if it was a sincere search. NL chronicles show rather a desire to package God, squeeze Him into a box DS made and peek inside once in a while to see if He's behaving. And Yahweh doesn't behave according to the mold of impersonal mysticism. Rather he has a personality which DS doesn't like.

Save your time and breath.

^^^ Aletheia/Enigma:

Maybe according to the Word of Faith movement, homosexuality is a "Kingdom revealed acceptable practice". As our WOFer pastor just said, Jesus has cancelled out Liardon's homosexuality so he can continue having "confessed" Jesus! 

Joagbaje:

I did read "God's Generals" maybe 2+ decades (late 80s) ago and Branham particularly was quite interesting especially his "word of knowledge" gift which captivated me for so many years. I prayed for such a gift too. Today however, and as pointed out above, one needs re-consider much of the book due to its source and the "fruits" we've seen manifest from that source. I agree these were human BUT MOST OF THEM DID NOT! JUST LIKE YOU! You would do well to think about that well. Still, I refrain from saying any of these people were not Christian - au contraire, they did a lot for the Gospel BUT they also did a lot against it. Whist Christian, many fell into this trap of "faith claiming" and repentance would have made them "look bad" so they kept at it and it killed some like Hobart Freeman. He had his right to commit suicide but what of those he effectively "murdered" by taking away their liberty to seek help. Are you also not falling into this self-set trap?

You say Hinn is not Oyakilome's mentor? Did you ever read Hinn? and then pick up Oyakilome? Come off it, bro; its saying the same thing in different words. Every single thing like a poor photocopy, in fact! But then you will ask me to substantiate and sadly, I am older now and have sent both author's literature to where is natural to them - the refuse bin. Today, its just the Bible and God can minister to me Himself. A father always has time for that!

I pray you do not have cancer, Bro. But these "Generals" who had it said more than you have done and still "claimed" the disease - which is why I asked the question you've refused to answer - could it be that God is not actually subject to our naming and claiming but remains supreme and shows mercy when He wills and to whom? Or what happened with these "gods"?

Joagbaje:

FYI, I do believe in miracles and have witnessed a few. Honest and mouth gaping ones too! They were a manifestation of God's Grace and Love and were not "claimed" or unverifiable! But I do not believe the Gospel of Jesus is about miracles especially when the "human practitioners" say they are gods and can call miracles into attendance by "faithing and claiming".

And you have business with the mentioned. Benny Hinn is mentioned and he "mentors" your mentor and thus by association and simple inference is your "mentor" (grand-mentor, if you prefer). This is just a manner of "dodging" reality - this alluding to "insults" which you cannot point to. That more so when at your own turn, you reserve the right for yourself to "judge" me and state unequivocally that I lack evidence of Jesus Words in my life. That is what? Praise? Humility on your part, perharps? Your lie (insultive) and attempt to change focus is indicative of which father of yours? God? You don't know my point? Let me make it clear - I asked you a question - why do these things happen to the great people of WOF since you all can "name and claim"? Could it be because God is not subject to your claims of faith?

A "honest" question requiring a straight forward HONEST answer! But I'll probably be older than Methuselah before a WOFer will answer the question that will set him free. What I expect is another attempt at distraction but to show you for what you are, okay, I beg, I apologise for insulting you, I am prostrate here on my keyboard pleading your indulgence. What is happening is I want to join the WOF movement but need to be sure that I am assured of "total dominion over finances and health and weather and even DeepSight + Mazaje and the mighty NEPA".

So tell me, Sir, why did our leaders and mentors in WOF not have fruit of their claims in their lives? Indeed, it seems that God purposely sought such out to "expose their lies" by making them bite their words before the entire earth. Why is this so? Is it because they were not right or because they did not have the faith they claimed. If that is it, how can I get more (and enough faith) than them so I can command the Almighty around.

I need a "man friday" as butler and cook and God might be a good idea if you can explain the above to me. If that is not direct enough, then

^^^Makes no difference to me or reader whether its been pasted here before. Just as you didn't write the Bible (like you like to say), I too told you above that I "googled" the information. I regret to say this is not a pulpit where you talk and we listen. Here, you get questions and queries so please give answers to my question and POINT OUT THE LIES IN WHAT I COPIED AND PASTED. Then deal with those that are true.

The point here is whether [1] you deny it [2] you accept its truth but cannot offer any explanation for it (silence is consent) [3] you have an explanation as I required.

BTW, I have faith of a type you would envy could you understand it. My trust is implicit AND explicit in the Lord Jesus. Through thin and thick, I see the Hand of God in my life since the day I accepted Him. Pain and scourging comes across as a learning experience and the Apostle Paul supports me when he informs us that a good father disciplines his child, and that not for cruelty but correction and tutelage. Only naughty person children are left to their own devices seeing as the "father" seemingly has nothing to lose with them. My "temporary" pains are shared with Christ who said I would face persecution from the world even as HE did! If I do not, am I His?

You may want to go through this http://www.pfo.org/deceived.htm. It will help you remember where you started out (if Naira and the allure of illegal "tithes" and the adulation of man hasn't made you deaf to truth) with God and His expectation of you.

EDIT: BTW, Jesus did not die of cancer after claiming He could not be "ill" or "sick". Stop trying to change the subject! Answer the above.

@Joagbaje:

One question for you:- the above - do you believe [1] they didn't claim it enough [2] they didn't have enough faith [3] they were sinners (your definition of that is "not born-again) and so God couldn't listen to them [4] the "witches and wizards" in their respective families were too powerful for their faith OR [5] God cannot be controlled by our words and demands but remains Supreme and "shows mercy to whom He will" "when He will"?

If you have another answer aside of the above, I would love to hear it without much posturizing i.e. as simply put as possible

Enjoy your day, Bro!

^^^ Admission (to me) above does not mean anyone caught you stealing or lying; but that you admitted there was "something" in Enigma's favor which "disfavored" you. For you to have said "I wish you didn't see that" meant there was something to it. And showed you to be honest enough to accept truth when its laid bare.

We (I believe I speak for Enigma and others here especially Aletheia) have no problems at all with you. That is what I wish those of you with the WOF persuasion would understand. Its just these "superiority" issues which usually end up proven delusional that scares us and THOSE superiority issues never allow you try to listen to any contrariness. Which is sad, for that is a sign of humility, a desire to learn more and understand more and a proof of "anti-fanaticism".

Maybe I should make my point clearer: I got the following from a few minutes search on google and tell you sir, it is by no means exhaustive:

[1] A. A. Allen was "said" to have died of Cardiac Arrest. In truth, he died from Liver Sclerosis. This was a man who allegedly healed thousands and claimed that whatever he "faithed" was "birthed".

[2] Jamie Buckingham (another WOFer and charismatic author) died of cancer. Why didn't his claims of  healing become true?

[3] We have heard of your Pastor (Chris Oyakilome) commanding healing over a "wound" in his body. So what happened to William Branham who died of injuries sustained from a car accident? He had six days after (before he died) and was able to talk, eat etc.

[4] Charles Capps said "I don't deny the existence of disease. I deny the right of that disease to exist in this body, because I'm the Body of Christ." (Capps, The Tongue, pg. 43). His wife died of cancer!

[5] Jack Coe warned followers "that the day would come when those who consulted physicians would have to take the mark of the beast." Coe (subsequently) became critically ill with bulbar polio ,  (and) took the "mark of the beast" and was admitted to the hospital. (Hank Hanegraaff, Counterfeit Revival, 1997, pg. 137 citing Harrell, All Things Are Possible, 101)

[6] Word of Faith teacher & pastor of Faith Assembly Hobart Freeman - over 90 people died in his church following his teaching and then Hobart died due to a medically treatable disease.

[b]I personally respect Hobart & his misguided followers. They actually took the teachings of the WOF movement to their logical conclusion. They stood on the "promises" alone and believed in their doctrine enough to face painful deaths instead of refusing to deny what they believed. Hobart Freeman is the most chilling testimony of the complete bankruptcy of the WOF errors. If WOF teachings were true they would have certainly worked for Hobart and the 90+ people who died in "faith believing." (BTW - Hobart is a name NONE of the WOF'ers mention, he was too serious about the teachings). (Robert Liichow, Sick Healers)

After a 15 year old girl whose parents belong to Faith Assembly, died of a medically treatable malady, the parents were convicted of negligent homicide and sentenced to ten years in prison. Freeman himself was charged with aiding and inducing reckless homicide in the case. Shortly afterward, on December 8, 1984, Freeman himself died, interestingly enough of pneumonia and heart failure complicated by a severely ulcerated leg. [/b]

Hobart Freeman's theology did not allow him to acknowledge that Polio had left one of his legs disfigured and lame. Quote, he said, "I have my healing." And that is all he would say when anyone pointed out the rather conspicuous inconsistency between his physical disabilities and his theology. Ultimately, his refusal to acknowledge his infirmities cost him his life. He had dutifully, according to his own theology, refused all medical treatment for the maladies that were killing him, and medical science could easily have prolonged his life, but in the end he was a victim of his own teaching. (John McArthur, Does God Still Heal, Grace Community Church in Panorama City, California, transcribed from the tape, GC 90-60, titled "Charismatic Chaos" Part 9)

[7] Kenneth Hagin. "Father" of the Word of Faith Movement - sister died of cancer.  Hagin’s great faith and special anointing could not keep her alive and on the planet. BTW, Buddy Harrison (Hagins son-in-law) also died of cancer. Please read "I believe in Visions" by Hagin for the promises he elieved and lived by.

[8] RUTH WARD HEFLIN A self-proclaimed power preacher and healer, Heflin's untimely death of cancer made more news.  A Religious News Service story reported: "Revivalist Ruth Ward Heflin Dead at 60. -- Revivalist Ruth Ward Heflin, known for her role in the so-called "gold dust" revival involving churches across the globe, died Friday (9/15/00) at a Richmond, VA hospital.  Heflin, who had suffered from cancer for several months was 60. ,  She directed the Calvary Pentecostal Campground in Ashland, VA which was founded by her parents in the 1050s and later led by her brother, Wallace, who died in 1997. (The Christian News, 9/25/00, pg. 10 as cited in "The Life And Times Of Golden Girl And Globetrotter Ruth Ward Heflin, by G. Richard Fisher, Personal Freedom Outreach, The Quarterly Journal, January-March, 2001, pg. 5)

Heflin suffered a broken ankle in an automobile accident last year.  In April, doctors diagnosed her with breast cancer that already had spread to her bones.  Heflin underwent a mastectomy on April 25, but refused chemotherapy or further cancer treatment because she said the Lord told her to refuse, according to Connie Wilson, her personal assistant. (Renee DeLoriea, "Ruth Ward Heflin, Revivalist and Prayer Minister, Dies At Age 60.", Charisma Magazine, November 2000, pg. 21)

[9] Benny Hinn is no stranger to mishap and sickness, yet he preaches that those who truly have "faith" will have no need of money and will be without sickness.  Since Hinn boasts of having a superior "anointing" and even claimed to be "a little messiah" and "a little god", why is it that he cannot heal himself or his family?  Two cases in point.

The (airplane) accident occurred in Avon Park, Fla. (south of Orlando) on (Thursday morning) May 26, 1983, at approximately 12:35 a.m. Hinn, along with his wife, Suzanne, a pilot and co-pilot, and two other passengers were returning to Orlando from a religious service held Wednesday evening in
Naples. Approximately 20 minutes from Orlando, the aircraft experienced power loss due to "fuel starvation." The pilot turned the plane around and attempted to land at the nearest available airport, Avon Park Municipal Airport. Due to the loss of power the aircraft hit several trees during its landing approach and crashed into a field about 200-300 yards short of the runway. The plane had flipped over from impact, lying on its topside.

The Orlando Sentinel newspaper reported all six occupants were injured and admitted to the hospital.  Five remained in the hospital for treatments. The Avon Park News Sun reported the following information on Hill:

"Hill was the most seriously injured person in the crash, having to be transported to Florida Hospital in Orlando for plastic surgery. ,  Reports have it that Hill suffered serious injuries to the head in the accident.  He was never admitted to Walker Memorial Hospital as were the other passengers, as he was transferred almost immediately. ,  The Hinns were transferred from Walker Memorial to Florida Hospital so they could be closer to their homes."

The Avon Park paper also reported Hinn "said he was in a state of shock" and that he said "It will be the last time I will ever fly in one of these (single engine airplane) again." Hinn did not report any miracles at the scene, neither did the newspapers, sheriff, other victims or witnesses to the crash.  The Florida Hospital in Orlando confirmed the admission and stay of both Hinn and his wife, Suzanne.  Their records show both were admitted on May 26, 1983, with Benny released on May 28 and Suzanne on May 29. (SOURCE: The Confusing World Of Benny Hinn, Fisher & Goedelman, pg. 60, emphasis ours)

Another fact to take into account is that Suzanne Hinn has been reported to have been suffering from mental problems for a number of years and has been on medications.  I have this on authority from some private sources.  You can also see evidence of this from her behavior captured on videos, especially the now infamous "Holy Ghost enema" rant.  She was also arrested for shoplifting in South Africa.

“Prosecutor Brandon Lawrence told the Cape Times that although he believed he had a strong case against Penny Hinn, he had dropped the serious charges because the court roll was full. . . The Benny Hinn Ministries in Florida, US, yesterday at first declined to comment on the matter, preferring instead to answer questions in writing. However, when pressed further a woman at the ministry… said pastor Hinn was married to Suzanne. This is the name Hinn says she uses in the US. He [the prosecutor] had earlier considered sending her for psychiatric evaluation. Hinn, who describes herself as a religious person, was arrested at Edgars Store in Adderley Street on December 4 and released on R1,000 bail for allegedly stealing two sets of ladies pajamas.” (sic) (Source: The Cape Times, Cape Town South Africa. Article from Court Reporter, Motshidisi Mokwena)

At the end of (the Godstuff) clip she is shouting and making gestures like a charging bull, charging across the platform back and forth and then sliding to a stop on her belly across the floor. She remained there apparently "slain in the spirit" for several minutes as Hinn's Assistant Pastor explained to visitors of the Orlando Christian Center what this strange behavior was supposedly about. (Video Source: Comedy Central, The Daily Show: Godstuff,28.8K Clip, 56k Clip)

That she suffers from mental problems is without doubt.  Is she also suffering demonic episodes?  You have to wonder. In either case, no healing has come miraculously for the Hinns through Benny.  I thought Hinn was the "man of faith"!

Hinn also prophesied in a crusade in Hawaii in 1997 that the Lord told him he would live to be 96 years old.  Only time will tell, but judging from the untimely deaths of most faith healers it is highly doubtful he will last that long.  If Hinn cannot heal himself and his wife, what makes him expect he can live long enough to heal anyone else?

[10] E.W. KENYON

E.W. Kenyon studied at the Emerson College of Oratory in Boston which was a hotbed at the time for the emerging New age thought. They imagined they have discovered laws of faith, promoting a Christianized version of occultism. Kenyon had divorced his wife even when he taught that what one speaks they will possess. E.W Kenyon who is certainly the Father of the Word of Faith Movement taught divine healing and that it was always God's will to heal. But he died in a coma, brought on by a malignant tumor.  He died from disease. (Mike Oppenheimer, Let Us Reason Ministries, Death By Faith, http://www.letusreason.org/Wf25.htm)

[11] AIMEE SEMPLE MCPHERSON - Another acknowledged divine healer - died of a barbiturate overdose. Why was she taking pills in the first place? Wasn't the "peace" of God enough for her?    

While the Dictionary of Pentecostal and Charismatic Movements deals with the controversial aspects of "Sister Aimee's" life -- her mysterious disappearances and alleged affairs, multiple marriages (two of which ended in divorce), and death from an apparent drug overdose -- it is strangely silent about her theatrical preoccupation with the slain in the spirit phenomenon. (Hank Hanegraaff, Counterfeit Revival, 1997, 168)

Betty K.C. Price was treated for cancer.
Joyce Meyers - cancer - medically treated
Daisy Osborn (TL Osborn's wife) -died of cancer
Dodie Osteen (wife of John Osteen) - contracter liver cancer but ran for medical treatment and survived.
John Osteen himself though, confessed his healing when diagnosed with multiple issues. After stating "God" told him he'd be preaching in his 90s, he died in his 70s. He had kidney dialysis, then heart catherization, then a pacemaker was inserted for him. He knew he needed a miracle and claimed God gave him Ps 27:14. He "confessed" his healing and the creative transformation of his kidneys and heart but died soon after.
Rod Parsely was recently admitted for back surgery despite all his claims of "name it and claim it". He has a deaf section in his church by the way. Why those in that section remain deaf is a matter to be considered since he can claim it.

If someone says they are having heart trouble and they deny this symptom claiming their healing by faith they could die. A perfect example of this is when Oral Roberts was on Paul Crouch on "Praise the Lord" show on TBN (October 6, 1992).  I watched as Crouch was asked to lay hands on Oral Roberts to minister to his chest  pains, Roberts exclaimed, "I feel the healing power of Jesus!" and said it felt like an "electric current go through him." Paul you are anointed. Oral Roberts was pronounced healed on TBN. But was he really? It was reported less than four hours later, while visiting a home in Newport Beach, Roberts felt more pains and was hospitalized at Hoag Presbyterian Memorial Hospital (also in Newport Beach), shortly after midnight. Subsequent articles report that Roberts' heart attack was "near fatal." ("Evangelist Has Tests," The Orange County [CA] Register [Dec.16 1992], A-7) the healing evangelist now has a pacemaker ("Roberts Out of Hospital," The Orange County [CA] Register (2l December 1992), A-30). Of course this is ignored by the crowds following his doctrine. One can only wonder why?

R.W. SCHAMBACH Faith Healer - got a quadruple heart bypass (from a real live human doctor)

"You don't have any problems, all you need is faith in God." (R.W. Schambach, TBN)

Maybe so, but isn't it nice that He has provided doctors too? Without them, R.W. would have long ago faced his judgment.

RUTH CARTER STAPLETON

Another one that comes to mind, Ruth Carter Stapleton, was the Faith Healing sister of former United States President Jimmie Carter. [She] refused medical treatment for cancer because of her belief in faith healing. She died of the disease in 1983. (John McArthur, Does God Still Heal, Grace Community Church in Panorama City, California, transcribed from the tape, GC 90-60, titled "Charismatic Chaos" Part 9)

You might say the above will not edify the reader. Fine, but it will keep them alive and "a live dog is better than a dead lion". What is the point of delusion if there is no "profit" being made from these lies. Look at the names above again. Wealth comes to mind. Sweet talking smoothness also comes to mind. These are/were people who found it easy to convince you to follow them (with your possessions, of course). But looking at the list and the end we see in their lives again - another word comes to mind - DECEIT! A sham.

":For what profiteth it a man, to win the whole world, but lose his soul" - Jesus Christ!

Bro, have a great day!

Fully Man, fully God. Can you for once use your schooling and seperate between the two? Then take example that makes sense.

But then, being DeepShit, you'll want to harp at taking example from the God part. So please do so and create something with intelligence to replace you seeing as you've decided to throw away that capability once its Christianity being mentioned. Or better yet, get on a jet to the UK and jump out over the ocean seeing as you would prefer to take example from God.