₦airaland Forum

I can't help but be impressed by most everyone here. I decidedly feel like Elijah as a time came when I was so miffed at Christianity because I felt we'd totally lost it - I've not been to "church" in years for that reason and preferred informal fellowship. Now I know God has kept His own and you guys prove it.

But what can be done to get people to understand its not just "say something with your mouth" then go back to the life you wanted. Indeed "church" is now worse than society and I know two churches where young men go to because they want easy girls. They just pick from the choir! One amazing character I know behaves and boasts about it like he was commissioned for that very purpose.

Any ideas what can be done? - these "business churches" are really distorting truth and what is happening is worse than "worst". Do we just talk of these things and thats it? ANY IDEAS what we as individuals can do?

@Friends:

Whatever God speaks becomes living! I think the idea behind the confession of Christ as Lord is meant in this same manner and the words are directed towards us in that sense. Say it, believe it, BECOME IT!

Its like saying good trees bear good fruit in another way - confession brings us into the reality we "confess". However, the "expertise" of our motivational preachers pointed out above, comes into play in our time and age. And then there are the audiences for whom "confessing" became a fad, a means of "belonging" in the new "set" and so the purpose was defeated.

When a truthful person says something, he/she lives it regardless of if the person had been "truly" truthful prior to that time! His decision to change compelled the confession just as God wanting illumination spoke light into existence. His decision is made by him and ACCEPTED BY GOD who provides the power for the "illumination".

@Jessefly:

Slow down, and read again - first, it was a CE member who said your pastors were stealing bank money and using diabolical means over their "earnings". It was in response to that I rhetorically asked if whether another person was stealing made it ok to steal.Seems you read faster than you process. Take it easy!

Finally, are you supposed to be "taxed" in Church? Given you've let us know this, we expect you also have a Pontius Pilate in your midst? When should we expect the 2nd cruxificion?

Just as I clicked "reply", I saw your new post. You're a wonder!

1st, I'm not RCCG. 2nd, your confidence that this is not hypocrisy will come only from me criticizing others?

So for you, its basically about Christ Embassy and your Father, Chris, right? Before making that post, did you consider the title of this thread is "Sinners In Christ Embassy,steal Millions Of Naira In Church’s Bank". What are we discussing here?

Ol'boy, chris is a man like you and you might have more anointing than he does. Stop worshipping man

^^^ I do not attend RCCG.

Like many other level headed people on this forum, institutionalised (especially excitement based) Christianity does not appeal to me. I prefer fellowship with a few people where everyone can comment, ask questions, know themselves and be a "family" of believers. Knowing the problem the next guy has helps me to pray for him or conversely, to offer him help. It is an enriching experience especially as my knowing him stops him from pretending all is well or that the 2 million he just appeared with came from thin air.

Maybe you ought sit back and consider 6 - 16 men who know each others jobs or work, financial status, family life etc meeting together informally (never planned, rarely all together but we ARE in touch). You might be shocked the realisations that will come to your mind. BTW, my group has pushed EVERY SINGLE ONE up till each is like the top in his work or field. That is what Christianity does, not make you steal to impress.

One really funny thing 3 of us were talking of yesterday - we are the enemy to people we try to help out of the delusion of WOF. BUT IT IS US THEY ALWAYS come to when they need help. Being a confrontationist of sorts, I asked one of them just this Sunday after he came to me from service needing money for a business why he didn't go to his WOF preacher or co-congregation for the help. Hear him - "Egbon, everyone is just managing O. One guy couldn't even pay his dustbin fee and his landlord was stressing him. How do I go to such for help?" On asked what the fee was, 250 a month and he owed 3 months. Yet they "KABASHHED THE DEVIL OUT OF FINANCES" all through that sunday service.

I laugh in 6 languages. Arrant nonsense - fooling yourself rather than sitting down, considering the problem and working out a serious detailed way to solve it rather than living a life of loaning money to buy a car and TM Lewin shirts whist owing 750 for 3 months.  

@Kunle:

Well, well! Maybe its time you started a fellowship in Lagos. Sure it will be filled daily. But NO TITHES O!

Gunnaz:

6 Billion of us or thereabouts are on earth today. I doubt if 5% of these have ever gone before God individually (not as part of january new year blessing outreach etc) in prayer AND TOTAL FASTING for 7 days asking that things become better for others i.e. praying for friends, family, widows, government etc. That I believe is one thing you can do and please God. Isaiah tells us about the fast that pleases God which suggests such prayers do please God in my defence.

Holiness is a sacrifice TO GOD not to man - true piety, humility etc are also ways you could please God. After these and other things that show love DIRECT to God, we come to those things that show love to our fellow man - these you have mentioned. However, I sincerely believe that without those things that go to God, those meant for men become as it were, a means to an end - a bribe, a way of getting back. Because they have promises attached to them e.g. give and it shall be given to you or another effectively says, "when you give to the poor, you give to me and have a reward".

You do not know where I am coming from - Occultists etc were enemies of God. They turned to Him and we came over on His side. Please remember the guy who would sell deliverance in the Bible. Thats what I talk about - commercialization of the Gospel (from within). These flock belong to God and are entrusted to you. If you destroy them, you cannot talk of being pruned but being cut down and burnt, roots and all.

I am not bashing CE. I just want people to start asking questions and BTW, what do you know about my prayer life that makes you believe I'm not praying for a change of heart. But if I only pray and keep quiet awaiting Jesus to come preach to the acolytes, I'm a fool. As James said "Faith without works is dead". Just as I will not only pray and wish good for someone in trouble but rather dig in my pocket in their behalf, so will I not just pray and believe an angel will land on CE pulpit and sermonize. I'll talk and if just one person sees the truth, God be praised.

Funnily, forgive me but I cannot but wonder how great the hype in the press where an angel to show up on that particular pulpit. Even where He to strike your Chris dead, acolytes and the church PR team (PR in Church ) will point to his "transfiguration" and in the noise and excitement, everyone will conveniently leave out that he was being rebuked/corrected/punished. See why its us who have to talk? The level of brain-washing is that bad.

But you my friend, seem to have a head on your shoulders

^^^ Clap for yourself, Sir.

Your best (only) defence of evil is that other people are doing it also . I guess that institutionalizes it and makes it fine, ehn?

@Gunnaz:

See why I said fruits will show the tree? We're saying lets come together and get people to do the right things and here is an acolyte in effect saying "everyone is doing it so whats the big deal about it!" When I now say this is wrong, you come back telling me who made me a judge? Is this not a tacit approval - we all do it so its ok! Chei, see the followership of Jesus

@Gunnaz:

I have been a member of this forun for awhile now and think I can see a consistency in the posts of people like KunleOshob, InesQor, Davidylan, Jesoul etc. I can even vouch for DeepSight (that his life ambition is to see the carpenter of Nazareth ridiculed). That is what observation does for you, my bro! The people I say I trust may not be known to me physically but look at David's post just above this and judge with that quote from God rather than with my words! By their fruits (what comes out of them) I know them just as I know what we are speaking about is W R O N G! No perfumed speech or oratory prowess can change wrong to right! If you say I am wrong, please provide your take on these people based on what you've seen them preach here. Consistence!

If God is your target, you will sacrifice anything for Him. If pastor chris is yours, you will sacrifice even God for him and if cash is your target, the whole world can lose their salvation: it would be an acceptable sacrifice to you. What I'm trying to say is, correction of the "many members" (as you prefer I say) would have been so easy - but where is it? You want to tell me Chris is not aware of the "problems" in his congregation? What is he doing about them? But you would have us pat his back because he preaches the Bible? So what? Is it not that same Bible that informs some will be rejected even though they did great things in His Name? Why does everyone believe it cannot be someone he knows? Was God lying or will He create another species for that dubious "honor" on the last day? But you say I cannot be absolutist even if the Bible point-blank tells me what is wrong and that is what I support - basically, I could term that as you saying the Bible too is wrong!

I say again: I have naught against the man but I have a lot against a style that is leading so many to perdition - what happened to the biblical injunction that says "all is lawful but not all is expedient"? Why can't they just stop this rubbish and consider human lives rather than cash! Because that is the target and all is is expendable!

Please stop this defence - you come across as more mature and intelligent than to fight such an obviously lost cause.

@Kunle:

I hope you don't mind! Let me re-phrase your words so it can be clearer to them.

KunleOshob:
But you say it is all right for people to say to those who need help, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to my rich pastor what I would have used to help you out of your problem thereby showing God's Love to my neighbor.’ 6 In this way, you say we no longer need the commandment to love our neighbors as ourselves as only our pastor needs to be catered to. And so you cancel the word of God for the sake of your own greed thinking you can get a blessing from God though disobeying Him[/b]. 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote,
8 ‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9 Their worship is a farce,
for they teach Rhapsody of Realities as greater than the Bible and as commands from God.’

@Gunnaz:

I am sad you see my posts this way (hatred, envy, slander) - I have nothing against any church or any person. My first stated observation EVER about CE on this forum was the uncouth vitriolic manner with which its members defended pastor chris whenever the church was mentioned. How would you wish I view this seeing as whenever Jesus, the HS or the Father was being insulted, these same people NEVER showed up (that was left for other Christians who follow Jesus only and with what we see posted here, are not acolytes to any human) - so where do these CE people's loyalties lay? You tell me.

Following this observation, post after post referred to CE - fraud, outright theft, staged miracles, immorality (one person even said all ikeja prostitutes are strong members) to the extent of international coverage. And the refrain is always the same - "We keep growing and making more money etc". What of the Biblical injunction that says wheat and chaff will grow together - did anyone ever remember that chaff/weeds grow faster than cash crops?

Its reprehensible to see supposed believers putting a man before God, quoting rhapsody rather than the Bible, defending their MOG instead of the Lord etc. And then we keep hearing these stories. I do not believe any church is perfect; far from it; none of us (especially me seeing as I know myself better than I know you) is perfect - ONLY God is true. Which means pastor chris is ALSO NOT true being just a man! But therein lies the issue - they refuse this or accept it with their mouths but not heart and as far as they're concerned, he comes first even against God. Jim Jones, Waco and every other cult ALL had this same characteristic - the members put the "MOG" first. NOTE THEY WERE MOG, NOT DEMONIC TILL THE DEATHS OCCURED!

My understanding of the scripture is simple - the early church had "ELDERS" who came together to pray for or counsel, not one Oga patapata. The Apostles did not see themselves as special compared to others - they felt they were servants and were humble, hard-working simple people who ministered to their churches as though their employers.

I do not say you should be poor to be a servant of God but prosperity at any cost is NOT the Gospel of Jesus. We have a Rhapsody thread here. Show me one entry that points to members "sharing" in the tribulations of those Satan hates and that Jesus suffered? Holiness? Separation from the world? Fasting? Wilderness experiences? etc?

Please do not jump to conclusions about my (and indeed such as Aletheia, KunleOshob, InesQor etc) motives - I just cannot get my head around this - we are co-heirs, it says! So why is pastor chris "different". Is it that he is on the same level with God and Jesus and they are below that? Or he is on the second level and they on the third level i.e following his level? Where's the scriptural support for that? AND why is it non-stop prosperity with people saying it drove them to steal or that they know many other fraudsters in the church like themselves? In conclusion, please take a look at this post and the poser created by the thread then you tell me what you think of the attitude shown - https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-427974.99999.html#msg5865237

^^^ It would have been nice to agree with you, Ma'am. Unfortunately, what is true is that it is Christianity that has been suffering in the hands of CE. If people start to question the leadership of this and other same type ministries, sanity will come into our midst.

Rather than keep quiet, they should ask questions - OF THE MAN IN THE PULPIT AT CE!

@Deen4me:

Makes a lot of sense from the point of view of splashing urine. However, and I don't know if I'm the only one who noticed this, these people in the absence of water, grab some sand and "wash" their privates with it by rubbing sand over it. Biology teaches this to be much much dirtier and dangerous than urinewhich even though reprehensible, some people drink in the name of alternative therapy.

Why would you squat for cleaniless THEN use sand as water to wash your privates. Haven't you defeated the purpose?

Story Link: http://www.thisdayonline.com/archive/2003/03/30/20030330rel01.html


When I first read on the Internet the story of the stolen thirty-nine Million naira from the coffers of Sheraton Hotel Lagos by the general Cashier of the Hotel, I did not give it much attention. Like many other people who read the news, I felt it was just one of those usual occurrences which have earned Nigeria the unenviable position of the second most corrupt nation in the world. There are too many cases of fraud and stealing of greater magnitude occurring every day in both official and unofficial circles here in Nigeria. Why then would anyone pay any serious attention to another story of theft in a company.

However, Newswatch in the March 31, 2003 edition sub-titled; "Oyakhilome's Church in N39m Theft Scandal" actually brought a twist to the whole episode. The publication was able to establish that the general cashier of Sheraton Hotel who claimed responsibility for the stolen money is a leader of sort in "Christ's Embassy". During preliminary police investigations, the hotel cashier (whose name is given as Lawrence Agada) revealed that he stole the money and expended it all to meet some of the needs of the church; to support some of her numerous outreach programs and satellite branches. To mention a few among other programs that Agada supported, he gave in millions on different occasions to sponsor Christ Embassy's popular "Night of Bliss". He also donated to the regular "Prosperity Convention" which is held regionally by the most senior Pastor. Agada supported likewise various branches of the church like the Agege, Ogba, Oke-Ira, and Ashade branches in rent payment, purchases of musical instruments, and chairs.

There was no indication that the cashier used part of the stolen money for anything else apart from giving it in different forms of donations to the Church. Up till the time of this publication there has been nothing to show that the young man did anything for himself or his family out of the N39m he stole. It seems Agada is now beginning to realize that he was under some kind of a negative influence of a mysterious spirit. Something came upon him and kept pushing him to go and carry the hotel's money to the church whenever there was any call for money in the church. Elizabeth (who is Agada's wife and an administrative staff of the Church) confirmed been privy to the whole deal. She says she was worried at a point knowing the money does not belong to her husband and that one day they may be required to pay it back to the hotel. They have no business of their own beside, but she was sure 'God' was the one talking to her husband to steal the money for the Church.

He also have a commendation letter from Pastor Chris Oyakhilome (which contain some prophecies) to show for all his "generosity". In the letter of commendation the Pastor acknowledged the donation of a generator said to be valued at over N4m. Among other things stated in the letter which was signed by Oyakhilome, it reads; "I trust you are both fine and experiencing the glory of God in a greater measure laughing your way through, " The prophecy therein says; "In your life, God will do mighty things. He will cause you to excel and lift you up so high that the world can't but take notice of you, in Jesus' name. Amen". With this type of acknowledgment, commendation and prophecy from "the ultimate man of God," Agada didn't need to think twice in responding with more millions from the Hotel's coffer to meet the various demands of the Church. It is most amazing that while the man of God hoped that Agada and Elizabeth were "laughing their way through" he did not border to find out how a mere cashier was getting the millions of Naira he was laundering on the church.

The Pastor of the Ifako branch of Christ Embassy confirmed that Lawrence Agada is their right hand man in the church. Everything Agada claimed he bought for the church and all the money he donated were confirmed to be true. Most of these things were found in the premises of both the headquarters and branch churches of Christ Embassy. It is on record that Agada sponsored some of his Pastor's trips abroad some costing as much as N400,000 : 00. Despite all these, the overall leadership of the church is seeking to affirm the legitimacy and legality of all they received from Agada. It is disturbing that the Church through her legal representative is so concerned with the fact that Agada is "a mere Cell or Unit leader in the Church" and not a Pastor. The Church Lawyer also seems satisfied with the fact that from his investigations, Agada only spent about N22m on the church and not the whole N39m. These are just extracts from the shocking developments and the ungodly attitude of the Church authority in their response to the whole matter. I will advice you obtain a copy of the said Newswatch magazine for more details.

The issues arising from all these are both fundamental and weighty. It is not first a matter of legality but of morality and integrity. What kind of Pastor will be collecting millions of Naira regularly from a church member (who is just a company cashier) without wanting to know how the member was getting the money? What kind of gospel is the likes of Agada and his wife hearing that made them believe that God can ask them to be stealing to support his work? A church that says (through her attorney) that it is not her business to know how members of her flock is doing their work in their various offices definitely gives herself away as an irresponsible church. A church that does not care about how her members come about large sum of money given as donation (which is far beyond the regular earnings of such members) is fraudulent. Such an organization can easily take blood money as donations even from armed robbers just to promote "God's work". Every God fearing person ought to be weary of such churches. I wonder how members of Christ Embassy will feel now knowing that some of the money used to power their programs, the generating plants and even chairs used in their services are bought from stolen money.

It is not difficult to get to the root of why people like Agada and his wife initially believed it was God asking him to steal hotel money for church work. There must be a different type of spirit propelling them to take such money for the church; it definitely cannot be the Holy Spirit. Someone must be under some kind of very strong spell or might have been seriously bewitched to steal millions of naira without even building a house, buying a car or even buying shoes for himself. What kind of spirit is really at work in Christ Embassy? Not too long ago, before Chris Okotie was swept away by the delusion of political ambition, he raised an alarm about the fraternity of Oyakhilome and the man in the Synagogue: T. B Joshua. He indicated that there were evidences that Oyakhilome have been initiated to the cult of the Anti-Christ (the Beast). He warned that true Christians who worship in Christ Embassy should leave the church lest they come under the spell of the man in the Synagogue under whose influence Oyakhilome was already operating. Many people interpreted all these warnings in different ways and did not take serious.

Soon after all these, Oyakhilome began to openly pattern his healing and miracle services after the mystical style of T. B. Joshua as if to further confirm his initiation into a cult. The man in the Synagogue is not only the person of questionable character and negative spiritual antecedents that Oyakhilome keeps company with. There is the case of one so called 'Apostle' Gbenga Igbafen (who unknown to many people is actually Oyakhilome's brother in-law). They now go about conducting what they call "Prosperity Convention". At such conferences, people are cajoled and sweet talked into some kind of "seed sowing" so as to have "some breakthrough and prosper miraculously.

The Sheraton cashier is said to have given at least twice in millions on such occasions before being caught. (This is a practical case of the promise of breakthrough becoming total breakdown). This same Gbenga Igbafen now being paraded about by Oyakhilome as an 'apostle' is a discredited preacher who specializes in immorality and in making people empty their wallets wherever he preaches. He actually became bankrupt and have to literally sell his former church to another denomination before joining Oyakhilome as his "apostle of extortion". These kind of apostles are described in 2 Cor . 11:13 -15 thus; "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."

It is necessary to examine a little further the prophecy contained in Oyakhilome's letter to Agada. This is because the predictions seem to have come to pass so accurately in a way. Agada has indeed 'excelled' in the art of stealing in the name of God to support the ministry of the likes of Oyakhilome. As one that played the fool (because he was being bewitched by dubious preachers) he has been so lifted up for the whole world to notice the atrocities been perpetrated in the name of the Lord just as Oyakhilome said it would be. The bible says the promotion of fools is their shame. The question however is what kind of a prophet is Oyakhilome who wouldn't see that the man he was sending such written prophecy to was actually stealing the money that provoked the prophecy? Which God did the Pastor say will do those mighty things in Agada's life. It certainly cannot be the God of truth and justice that we know. It must be another kind of god: the one that was compelling Agada to steal for the church. Based on all these, the types of Oyakhilome fall to the category of those who preached another Jesus, another gospel and make people receive another spirit contrary to the one the early apostles of Christ presented. (See 2Cor. 11:3-4)

Somebody must be courageous enough to tell Oyakhilome and his cohorts to repent of all their atrocities. There is no form of bravado that can help them out of this mess. The church and her leadership must openly repent, apologize to the management of the Sheraton Hotel and the general public. All the money traced to the coffer of the Church (as donations in cash and kind) out of the stolen money should be refunded back to the hotel management. If the leadership of the church refuses to hearken to this voice of reason, they will not only remain discredited, but the law should be made to run it's full course on the matter at hand. And subsequently God will reveal his wrath on all those who are misrepresenting him. I believe there are still many similar cases like the one stated here. There are many more Agadas in other churches like Christ Embassy that are being deceived. Everyone should examine himself \ herself and set the house in order. Romans Chap. 1:31 says "Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." The time has come that judgment is beginning in the house of God!. Repent and be converted less you perish.

@Zikky:

Yes, they don't look like they ever saw 600K talk less of 60 Million but have you considered the fact that CE acolytesmainly steal "for" CE? I wouldn't be suprised if investigations show they used ALL the money to "sponsor" night of bliss or prosperity convention or to but cars for pastor chris.

Talk about robbing "anita" to pay "chris"

BTW, I don't know why you bother to reply the "evil report" issue? Did you forget this thread and others like it threaten their "pots of soup"?

^^^ Chei, SirJohn:

You too? You fell for WealthSolutions and co? You must have queued and queued befoe it became your turn and I remember you guys queueing drove me away from GTB, ring road to UBA Strange that of all the so many many people who fell for those ponzi schemes, every single one of them belongs to the WOF movement except for one alhaji who said he didn't mind throwing away the 200K if it was a scam.

I clearly remembered being "offered" the opportunity which being a manufacturer, I turned down seeing as it was obviously impossible to find any legal (and moral) business making such returns in such short periods. People like Dangote can make 25 Million a day NOW. It wasn't always like that and it took a while to build the structure that creates such wealth. BTW, Dangote does not pay tithes and first-fruit (at least not the CE way) . Yet, CE, WealthSolutions and Co promise such returns. I dare anyone to inform us of a moral and legal business where the kind of returns these offer are possible.

God does bless in amazing ways that can defy understanding but that is the exception rather than the rule AND it usually follows a wilderness experience where a covenant was made for such a blessing. I'm trying to imagine God suggesting a wilderness experience for a CE acolyte. They will kabash (unleash the rubbish they say is speaking in tongues) and attempt to bind the Almighty Himself telling Him "I cast you out in the name of pastor christ"

Very funny thread here - Obviously, someone has forgotten to inform us that mosque domes (roofs) are painted with reflexive paint (usually gold colored). If that is done here in Nigeria, one can only imagine what those two mosques have covering them so they shine like a mirror. Seeing them from hell won't save you anyway. Twill just remind you of your folly

^^^ Lol

Gunnarz:

Would you have preferred the title to be "The Righteous men of CE have just stolen Millions in the Church's bank"?

Please read the title again. The OP just said some "who are sinners" commited a crime - do you believe they are not sinners? 

BTW, no-one says anyone is perfect but look at your Mr A and Mr B allegory - why is it so often that its CEC that we hear its members are stealing money and taking it to the church. It could be argued in fact, that they are stealing under "pressure" FOR CEC's benefit since they seemingly take it there always. Why do they take so much there if they stole it for themselves?

Please point to one instance involving "House on the Rock" or "Daystar" or Pastor Odukoya's church or Chris Okotis'e ministry or Deeper life or Global Harvest? Why is it always this one church whose pastor is accused of "fixing miracles", "having thieving acolytes", "having the loosest female congreagtion imaginable" etc? RCCG is much larger yet we've heard of relatively few controversies. Deeper life is much larger - how many have you heard? Or you would have us believe God decided to hide thieves in other places and expose only CEC criminals? 

Don't you realise a congregation is subliminal in understanding? Words have a power that transform or push us into a mindset and that is why the Bible warns us against evil company - because it corrupts. Listen non-stop to words that suggest theft and YOU WILL STEAL when it has sunk in deep enough. Did you notice the concept of "get it at all costs" posited by the criminals. Is this the first time you've heard that in relation to CE?

Finally, NOBODY is celebrating this insult to the Lord we all call upon. Rather, it is disheartening but truth must be said else we are offering support albeit tacitly. Our coming out to condemn this rubbish is a statement that this is not indicative of Christianity or do you believe it is? And it might make some acolytes run for safety before they too commit crime. And that will hurt the system which might be forced to change knowing they are exposed.

And that is Aisha2's point. Their fruit exposes them for who they are and this fruit DEFINITELY informs that this system IS NOT CHRISTIAN but financial, morally bankrupt and criminal to boot!

^^^

Away4real:

Based on your reply,

Is it only blessing, healing and obeying us that God does today?

Just yesterday we were talking of this at https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-421491.128.html#msg5858159 AND https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-421491.128.html#msg5858159.

Na wa!

Lies have very very short legs and truth has suddenly caught up and overtaken it. As they say, you can't hide behind a finger. First SirJohn exposes the "Fooling Healing School", then South Africans get angry, then Erelu says she supplied the power and now this - I wonder what news the next few weeks will bring

@Kunle:

Have you forgotten that pastor christ comes before the true Christ in cec? so ra e O! You've been warned!

Aletheia, truly you are in the Spirit. I thought I was the only one who noticed it. As it says, by their fruits, you shall know them  

^^^ Hopefully, light is coming in his door

^^^ Brilliant post! But your proposed audience are just like the crowd that welcomed Jesus - they want nothing to do with a yoke or a cross. All they want is cash, health, "showing logo" and excitement.

Would be nice to see them comment on this though

@Image123:

Do you realise Jesus was absolutely Holy and NEVER sinned? To you, it is not that fact that matters but faith, abi? Then you say He commited His Spirit to God. Who would Jesus have commited His Spirit to if not God? Pastor Chris?  

What trust does God have in you? Does that trust include knowledge of what you will do? If yes, then that is not faith since faith is "things not yet seen" but you have just agreed God has "seen".

If you say God's trust in you does not include knowledge, then your god is Chris Oyaks because the Almighty definitely knows the future! It is Oyaks that has not seen the future!

You don't want commentaries but you make comments   This WOF people na wonder!

@image123:

Kai, stop that rubbish before I send a dog after you!   Jesus MADE HIMSELF an example for us, NOT designed faith like you people do. Do you realise that Jesus followed God's Will whist here? That was trusting in God (based on total knowledge anyway) not "tapping faith" as you call it where you try to manipulate God into your mold. Witches and Wizards all of you, placing yourself in the place where you judge, decide and manipulate for self-gain even when you don't know what tonight will bring!

We (humans, me and you) need faith to get blessings that God created! He creates, we believe. How dare you people say God uses faith? faith in what? Your jerry curls or anointing oil?

Anyway, why do we even bother? Prior to now, I just wondered at the attitude of CEC people. Today I finally accept what has been bandied about concerning you - you are truly apostates, claiming that God is on the same level with you. No wonder people ridicule Christianity.

Imagine someone thinking of God on the same level with a guy with his hair jerry-curled, speaking fake "oyinbo-nglish", planning staged miracles and only full of hot vapid talk that creates cash into his and selected pockets rather than enriching human lives.

Aletheia:

I had almost this same conversation with a younger friend at home awhile back. He almost turned violent ( ) with me and eventually I realised what the issue is - these people have sold their hopes to other men whose "anointing" they hope to turn towards them personally one day. They believe they're sowing towards that when they become acolytes. When you try to educate them, you're telling them to lose that hope of "hitting" it big when that anointing turns to them. It comes from laziness and a desire for "miracles" rather than them BEING a miracle! Jesus gave a name to a generation that seeks signs rather than being "the" sign to all men. Usually, they end up frustrated.

The women become loose (as evidenced by what we see in those churches) and marry/sleep around for money. Evening services, they pretend holiness whist giving testimonies of sudden elevations at work, with arms raised up as though grabbing God by the gonads yet with semen running down thighs as they do so! The men over-reach themselves, become debtors hoping a miracle will come pay the bills, using loans to "show logo" rather than invest and when they invest, its in the service industries (short term hopefully fast returns) rather than production.

They are kept under control by exhortations of not being "of enough faith" or that "they've not tapped into the kingdom resources enough". Thats why they call them WOF - daftly, they repeatedly recite expressions of faith hope (effectively attempting the practice of witchcraft since its manipulative rather than based on God's will). Its a vicious cycle. Recite and "claim", hope for change, loan as much as possible and "show" logo (of course paying tithe and pastoral gifts out of loans, gifts, income, whatever), get nowhere, refuse (hopeless fear of being called of no faith) to see truth and go to church as much as 6ce weekly for another "anointing" which is basically an excitement inciting pep-talk encouraging you to shout louder, kabash (speak in tongues) endlessly and recite more "words of faith".

The longer you spend in the system, the worse your situation and delusion becomes and suddenly we hear "Banker steals 10M and gives to church". The pressure has broken the guy and in desperation, he steals to give "daddy" so "daddy" is forced to notice him and can use the special powers to provide the miracle that will remove the debt in his life. When they become an embarrassment, they are forced out by being ignored. Shame and reality force them to be quiet and usually they leave christianity or just maintain a semblance of it. Of course, many more have taken their place so the "MOG" is on a roll.

Don't bother insulting Tonye-t. The guy's skin is thicker than that of a crocodile as he's being trained to see only the MOG's words as being of any importance. Remember Pavlov's dog from Biology? What matters is the reader who goes through this thread, gets the point, asks questions and walks away with knowledge. The time will come when even our Tonye-ts will realise that the wolves Jesus said are in His flock cannot but include some of the pastors. Then they will ask if their own is inclusive and truth will start to come to them.

BTW, the guy I discussed with has not being to my place since that day. This is someone who was quite close to me for over a decade - that gives you an indication of how deep the delusion and bondage can be.

^^^ It is A LIE!

DeepSight "Baba" is back Fornicating has come, holiness out the window! Stout is in town, Olive oil be damned! OOI forever, Carpenters we despise!

Back with a couple hundred million and a few hundred more skirts (abi na shitiyans dem dey call am now) lifted up ehn?

Anyways, that aside your campaign of calumny against InesQor is unfair. How many times does he have to explain that he found it funny to allow the mistake that cast him to look a woman or how the tag "InesQor" came about? I hope its not disappointment he's not a woman (with the attendant hopes you had) thats making this a personal vendetta?

@Tudor:

You said:

I was with this guy for the better part of half a decade and know how he can be so tactless and shameful in a fit of anger. He prolly made that statement when he got angry at the journalists. A so called man of God who'll threaten to curse u when angry or would call you and your parents names in a fit of rage is who oyedepo is.

And I remember in proverbs where its stated a man controlled by anger is a fool. And some 'christians' still consider these bloke a wise man.

Are you serious he'll call your parents names? Threaten to curse you?   I don't know the guy but if thats true, na wa O!

BTW, please don't equate God with a supposed "representative" who hides under His Name to do evil. Except of course, you are saying the "representative" is himself God! Insult the evil person, not the God he hides behind!

InesQor:
First off, I apologize that this is off-topic.

I am really and sincerely sorry about the whole ID stuff, it was a combo of complex faults. For the sake of noetic's posts on the locked nopuqeater/olabowale thread, I explain below.

As I alreadY explained earlier on nairaland, I am not using the 2 accounts. I forgot to log out of my email on a public terminal, and I guess someone changed my password. Password recovery didnt work, I tried.

Tried to recover it to no avail, so on my birthday, February 22nd, 2010 I came to Nairaland to change my email on my profile so that I can get notifications since I cant access the old email. Unfortunately, Nairaland sent the activation link to that same old email that i cant access, and i was locked out until I can click the inaccessible link.

Looking back, i think the best solution would have been to email a moderator or something but impatiently, just like some people do when banned, I created a new user because I wanted to make some posts. I did, and decided to forget about the locked email and mavenbox ID.

Hours later, suprisingly Google sent me an SMS so i was able to reactivate my email and thus I could activate mavenbox again later that day. But I continued posting with this account.

Unfortunately, things got further complex because my mavenbox login was saved on my phone so one day I used my phone to reply a post on Buddhism and after two posts I was alarmed to see what I had mistakenly done. Then i logged out and cleared the login details.

And truthfully, JeSoul told me OFF nairaland that I was in the wrong. She told me to come clean and fix what I was getting deeper into. I simply told her that I did not want to raise the topic, I just did not think it was a good idea because I had gotten into enough trouble in the past. Besides, I was not using the two accounts so as far as I could see, nothing was amiss. She insisted but I ignored her advice. She said "all of this" would happen but I thought it didnt matter.

To everyone to whom it matters, most especially Tudor, DeepSight, and JeSoul and Nuclearboy, and Davidylan & Noetic and finally VIARO (Your name is not in lower-caps, never let anyone tell you any less), I am sorry. I hope you guys forgive me.

Cheers.

@Tudor:

Well, there you have it. I think patience at all times is truly profitable. Us yoruba say "agba tio ni suru, oun gbogbo lo ni" (elders who are patient have all they need). I remember something that i read this morning about a pastor who insisted a 16 yr old keep an unwanted pregnancy but who when later his wife was raped and became pregnant, became an advocate for abortion. In shame, he went to a "quiet" quack who destroyed the wife's womb.

I wouldn't be suprised to hear that after that, he married another so he could have a child.

These things happen because we all are human and the greatest mistake we can make is to forget that. When the shoe falls on our own feet, we understand how it is to make these choices.

And BTW, I do agree with you that not all can think clearly or apply understanding. Still, there is the injunction to seek knowledge and wisdom at all costs - and continue to do so till fulfilled. Most throw away the chance for self development for love of lucre not realising that after getting those, what they seek for actually seeks them out.

Gunnaz007:
@ Enigma,
Romans 2:14-16
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.)

REJECTION OF JESUS CHRIST AS THE ONLY WAY IS A CONDEMNATION ALREADY AND NO AMOUNT OF GOOD WORKS WUD SUBSTITUTE SALVATION BY GRACE THAT IS IN THE DEATH, BURIAL, AND RESSURECTION OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST

hence, they wud be judged according to their conscience; and not according to the Law of Moses!!! And also the passage pointed out clearly that Jews who were/are still keeping Mosiac Laws, wud be judged by Mosiac laws!!!

That scripture is in no way inclusive of any other (I saw my friend Inesqr excited about inclusivity) that has not accepted Jesus Christ as Lord; Not accepting Jesus Christ implies you stand condemned, but for those gentiles that have accepted Jesus, they wud face the judgement throne of God to obtain their rewards, while Jews who have not accepted Jesus wud face judgement according to d law of Moses!

@Gunnaz007:

I'm confused here. 1st you say they are a law unto themselves (not having knowledge of the law) and will be judged according to their conscience. But in the same breath, you say they are condemned already. Then you say Jews who have not accepted Jesus would be judged according to Moses.

Counting, you've given three criteria: [1] Conscience (which all humans have), [2] Jesus (which not all who have conscience have accepted), and [3] Moses (whose law has been superceded) - which contradicts your statement that Jesus is the only standard. There is even a fourth criteria implied which is those who have heard but not understood the Gospel (maybe this would be catered for by conscience anyway).

Care to discuss the contradictions above? Or please explain this -

[1] What happens to the guy who never heard of Jesus?
[2] What happens to the guy who heard but never understood?
[3] What happens to babies (who are totally selfish since they only care for their food and rest and will disturb anyone to get it and do not care about Jesus or even their mothers, just food and rest)?
[4] What happens to the Jew who finds the thought that Jesus is the Son of God contrary to his understanding of the torah?

@joe4christ:

please, your comments on the above would be very welcome

@ Tudor:

Jesoul is not a tyrant. Responsibility brings one to choices that may break the heart to make but must be made. None of us is perfect and I notice that once most anyone becomes a MOD, tyranny becomes a regular complaint. They're human.

Meanwhile, God defines Himself as "I am that I am". Then He provided guidance. Then He made life to work in a manner that reality leads us to truth. Then He sends people who ought be Shepherds. But when the flock decides they want to eat in Lion territory and the supposed shepherd considers himself a paid (men, these guy get PAID) hand rather than "trustee" of the sheep's welfare, what obtains today becomes the case.

You are right that not all of us are intelligent. But that is by choice rather than design. A banker, engineer, any university or for that matter, high school graduate went to school for 2 things as far as I'm concerned :English and Maths OR RATHER communication and Logical reasoning. If the person refuses to apply these, its his choice, not God's fault. Imagine the dog that decides to hang out in a lion's den - does it exist? I think not as dogs are sharper than that. OR a rat going into a Cobra's den? No way! So why is it then humans that drop their right and capability to think and we blame God for it.

Fhemmy has said it all: life and death, the choice is ours to make individually and finding understanding is our task!

JeSoul:
On top of that, he promised me his 3rd son for husband he think say I go forget?

@Jesoul:

His 3rd son?    You want to marry a relic from the 17th century? Rather, he should promise you his great great great great grandson's third great grandson. Hopefully that descendant will still be able to consumate the marriage seeing as he'll be all of 85 or thereabouts.

Maybe you haven't heard but an episode of "Mummies" on Discovery channel is based on our NL "daddy". It was supposed to air Easter but was moved forward for the "Jesus Chronicles" seeing as Jesus came on the scene a bit earlier than he did.