₦airaland Forum

^^^
@Ogajim: give them all 25 Stealth fighters the US has - it will make no difference! When light (read that as truth) come, darkness (read that as lies) HAS TO disappear.

Category ko, rhapsody ni!

@DeepSight:

David is absolutely right. Why would it be you to decide what God "must" be like?

And yes, its the Spirit that counts and which is why we say you're not getting it - because the Good Samaritan was the one "accepting Jesus" by his actions! The levite seemingly "accepted" by word of mouth but denied in reality.

BTW, whats with you and all these big guys who keep reserving their best bashing for you - na who you offend reach like this that MyJoe has decided to take you up!  

The problem I have with you, DeepSight, is that you never listen (read that as considering what we're saying).

Christ is more than a Person - He's a way of life, a race, a "striving to be". What InesQor says (and its true) is that accepting Christ is accepting that way of life or race etc. This is the right way, the only way. Once you are on that path, your destination is "assured". BUT ONLY God knows if I am just a signboard pointing to the way rather than going there! Same with InesQor or any other Christian! I could be pretending, couldn't I and have missed it totally YET seem to be on the right track to you/others?

Where you are not a Christian (read that in the context above), ONLY GOD knows your heart/life/sincerity etc!

Basically then, whether one is Christian (the race runner O) or not is God's decision. If true, you're on the path. If not, ONLY God knows where you're going to. And where you're not, ONLY GOD knows your heart and that is what He will use to decide your fate

^^^ I have gone through your "Ahimsa" theses and tome, it seems you're not seeing the forest because of a leaf - you, DeepSight; from your posts subscribe to that same idea - non-violence. I have read you insulted, battered, despoiled even and you never shook or reverted in type. which would suggest you are a peaceful guy.

Does that excuse your fornicating ways? Or allow you to be so intolerant of Jesus Christ. Just like Gandhi, you come across as just a regular guy (though most regular guys don't smoke and come up with OOI). So whats with the worship? I watched "The Mahatma" over 2 decades ago and even then remember all that was posited about him was peace peace peace. So what? Plus like a very wise guy said earlier, the Nobel committee never once considered your "mentor". Methinks that came about from having more information than you do!

I will read what you asked me to read but you have solved the problem you presented with this thread already. Let me quote you -

Deep Sight:
It is possible that Mother Theresa was a closet hired assasin - only God knows.

The bolded - wasn't this what InesQor wrote concerning those who do not subscribe to Christ? If you knew this, then why the question?

You guys still don't get it, do you?

We have differing standards: whist you (and me) are quoting from the Bible, he (they) has revelation knowledge not available to even the Apostles (maybe even to Jesus Himself) and is quoting from the ROR which shifts and turns and remains consistent only when tithing and first fruits are concerned

DeepKaffir:

This is the best you can do in refuting the above?

nuclearboy:
@Joagbaje:
His desire for us is that we have dominion over possessions NOT HUMANS! People who have true dominion have it over nature not over others. They utilize their curiosity and the creative instinct God has given us to conquer nature and bring about new things.

Why not work hard, design and build something, create an appliance that will serve men and for which men will glorify your Father in Heaven? Is the only way to wealth re-hashing the same old WOFer books under new titles and convincing people to bring their hard won earnings to your "store-rooms" on pulpits? Is that the creative capability we "inherit" from the Almighty. Ta le fi jo (what father do you resemble?) when you cannot create only convince? How many times in the Word do you see God striving to convince rather than create? Seems to me from my Bible that the only guy striving to convince he is the same without a creative instinct is satan.

Have Dominion over the "EARTH"! Subdue IT and multiply! Sound familiar? The first exhortation God gave to man.

It DOES NOT SAY SUBDUE HUMANS. Nature and the earth belong to us; they are Man's "resources". Tap them, break them, create something from them and by so doing, multiply! HUMANS ARE God's "resources". Your resources should not come from convincing people to give you in lieu of the Almighty else you are "standing" in His place. Do you remember "I will set my throne on the sides of the North and will be like the Most High"? Who wants to take the place of God or be like Him or have the respect due to Him? SATAN! What happened to ALL OF US being priests today with Jesus being first? So if you decide to be my priest under Jesus covenant, you are saying you are a priest to Jesus Himself.

Can't you still understand? True it is that one will sacrifice anything for his desire but would you really sacrifice God for cash?

@Joagbaje:

Are you sure you're not actually Chris Oyakilome?

Did you ever read Is 53 or all the points above which show Jesus as living (on Earth) the life of a humble peasant? And yes, His desire for us is that we have dominion over possessions NOT HUMANS! People who have true dominion have it over nature not over others. They utilize their curiosity and the creative instinct God has given us to conquer nature and bring about new things.

Why not work hard, design and build something, create an appliance that will serve men and for which men will glorify your Father in Heaven? Is the only way to wealth re-hashing the same old WOFer books under new titles and convincing people to bring their hard won earnings to your "store-rooms" on pulpits? Is that the creative capability we "inherit" from the Almighty. Ta le fi jo (what father do you resemble?) when you cannot create only convince? How many times in the Word do you see God striving to convince rather than create? Seems to me from my Bible that the only guy striving to convince he is the same without a creative instinct is satan.

Jesus rich?

Well, Isaiah 53 describes His life as one of pain, denial and sorrows. How that translates into material wealth, I do not know. Above, Aletheia discusses Jesus "treasury/treasurer". I see that "bag" differently and believe it was so sparsely furnished they needed someone to do the accounts and be sure they could handle the next day. If this wasn't so, why did Jesus need money from a "fish" to pay tax? Why not just ask Judas to send 100 talents of gold from the unending bullion stores?

All these excuses to preach "money" are simply a scam directed against God's sheep.

No one is answering my question. Was Jesus teaching His audience to lie or were they "born again" Christians when He taught them to ask forgiveness and even call God "Our Father"?

^^^ I see where you are taking this. As I said earlier, you did seem to have a point but are taking it way too far! To illustrate my belief, Jesus was asked to teach people to pray. The prayer He taught contains the words "Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us".

Maybe you'll see now why many of us wonder at WOFers - your postulations above suggest Jesus was teaching people to lie, for if sinners cannot be forgiven, they only add more insult to injury ASKING God to forgive them. And this would directly result from being misled by none less than Jesus Himself. Please note this prayer was taught before what you call remission/atonement/forgiveness etc.

Was Jesus teaching His listeners to lie?

VIN please?

^^^ My apologies then, Sir!

Could you then go ahead and answer the questions asked just prior to my post? And when we are done "proving" we are right, hopefully, we'll remember this is not the WWF

Peace please, brothers!

This thread has digressed too far from what it was intended for and is becoming "word" wars!. Could we please leave the "definitions" and trying to show the WOFer side as being vacuous? Its obvious Joagbaje just chose wrong words and we are all at one time or other, guilty of the sin of pride so its not easy backing down. This moreso considering he is, as it were, "the" bastion and last line of defence of WOFers. And in sincerity, he does have a point; just is getting it across wrongly!

Might seem worth it to beat him down and teach a lesson but not exactly profitable. Plus the guy will not back down and we know it!

^^^ Glad you know and acknowledge they "are being duped in the name of tithing".

I suggest you read Deut 26 from the first verse to the end and know God's Will concerning giving! ROR is written by a human like you and tomorrow, God could decide to make you greater!

I don't think the point being made here is getting across. "Christian" is today a term that refers, to be born in any minimally Jesus "professing" household or to calling oneself such. But the context for the purposes of this thread is totally different. I'm sure most of us read Davidylan saying "being a CE pastor and being Christian are mutually exclusive" - that would suggest that even within Christianity, we differentiate between "claims" and "reality". Here, we are talking about reality, not "professing".

The point thus, here is this - A Christian (real) WILL make Heaven being totally in tune with Christ's Love and comandments! He/She lives "the life" as a matter of "his new nature"! A professing "christian, on the other hand, will not neccesarily achieve same. Just as "Christians" have these "categories", Non-Christians fall into categories also - you have those who never heard the Gospel (spelt LOVE and its workings in the man) and you have those who heard and rejected (take this as rejection of Christ's personality and divinity which is synonymous with His teachings). You can almost not seperate the person from His works and thus REJECTING HIM IS USUALLY TANTAMOUNT TO REJECTING HIS TEACHINGS".

Capische?

I notice babaearly disappeared when Noetic asked the question about those who never heard the gospel of Christ. One text that we may want to consider at this time is "Shall not the judge of the whole earth do right?". People go about screaming Jesus is the only way but forget that Jesus is both a personality and context. You miss out if you know/understand the personality and deliberately "reject" it. "know" here is a word only God can define and there I agree totally with InesQor that God sees better and will do the sifting Himself.

Where the personality is not known or understood, the context come in. There have existed people who without ever hearing of Jesus fulfilled the terms He set out in the beatitudes. Peace-makers etc. Their reward is assured not because they believed in Jesus but because they fulfilled certain conditions - however, such rewards "might" be earth based and then, "maybe NOT". We do not know. But God will do right. I would like to see scriptural analysis/support for the Almighty sending a 2 day old baby to hell if he/she dies at that age.

The greatest point here IMO, remains that "Christians" have it easier being they have started the walk. But judgement starts inhouse so they also, might have it toughest.

@Snowy:

Maturity brings the capability to laugh at oneself! Did you notice the smiley when I spoke of bangers? My views are not important. God's Word is! I gave an example of how to help and of the issues in real lives and where you could go to if you truly wish to show love and compared to the "theory" of pastor based tithes.

I apologize for butting in between DeepSight and David. InesQor made some comments on this issue awhile back on another thread. I believed the submission brilliant but open to further debate. Please see https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-419596.0.html#msg5768324, https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-419596.0.html#msg5770416, https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-419596.0.html#msg5770546, and most of all https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-419596.0.html#msg5778294.

I'd love to read comments on this but advise some careful consideration of the submissions in the entire thread before making judgements.

@InesQor:

8 days more

@Jesoul:

You want a "god" to answer to a man? Have you fogotten that platforms differ? One is arguing from ROR and the other from the ordinary Bible - agreement can never be found!

Another problem you can solve for me, Jesoul is to let me know - where can I learn to read Aramaic, Hebrew and Old Greek? I hate being an illiterate when it comes to "the original revelation knowledge meanings of the words" in scripture. Be a good sis and point me in the right direction

Deep Sight:
I think its simply unnatural.

Much as doing a squirell might be said to be unnatural.

It could also be physiological or psycological.

Sad, whichever way.

I clearly remember you saying goats were sexy! What wrong did squirrels do you? BTW, homosexuality is unnatural. Demonic might be too strong a word but assuredly unnatural

^^^ Deut 26 establishes the first fruit and tithe! Some of your first produce (agric or Cash). Then the THIRD YEAR is EXPLICITLY called the year of the tithe by GOD Almighty Himself. Where is the slowpoke that wants to change God's Word and why?

Tithing (as it is practised today in business churches) is being attacked because they are the robbers, stealing from JESUS (the poor, needy, stranger, fatherless, widow) and giving it to their own lusts.

Let the reader consider this and pay his tithe to those who own it - according to God, the poor etc (who cannot pay you back themselves), then see if you will not find that reward that has eluded you till date. Paying to business pastors is the robbery Malachi 3 speaks of!

And yes, they which minister live of the things of the temple - proceeds of their books, gifts in Millions of Naira, cars given to them by the wealthy in their ministries and many other such! E no dey reach? Ole! Barawo!

^^^ Illegality ! Immorality ! Amorality !

All "ity" words seem to be useful when discussing the subject matter But thats by the point.

Amorality is worse than immorality seeing as one concerns fleshy desires and the other says "I refuse to know the difference between what is right and what is wrong" which encompasses immorality. The Apostle Paul seems to have come across a dicey situation and he made a comment that "ALL is lawful BUT NOT ALL is expedient". In light of that comment, what say we about a moral/spiritual leader when his disciples/followers/acolytes see this sort of example? What should they do - insist on legality? or do the right thing? And we know legality usually is presenting the case better than the other side!

There is what is right and all the legality in the world cannot make wrong right! And we needs must ask ourselves - how would Jesus, Peter (ananias and sapphira dey Bible O) and Paul (not expedient) have behaved in such a situation?

Then we know what type of tree this is!

@Snowy:

Nice meeting you too.

To start with, my frustration and desire to cry comes from NOT being able to stick a xmas banger up some noses and set them off

I'm happy your post is mainly about "taxes". Whats unfortunate is that you have not provided even one scriptural backing for your position - you wanted scripture, I provided a bit. Where's your scriptural rebutal? Rather, you appealed to the senses and said Jesus paid tax - to whom? Ceaser, I believe, the representative head of a cruel political economic system. Is your church the same? No wonder then!

Basically then -
[1] You have no scriptural basis for "taxes" since THERE IS NONE! [2] You conveniently did not mention tithes since the Word of God is clear on that as discussed earlier. [3] You have decided on behalf of God that you have a right to intepret God's Word to suit yourself [4] you believe anything given to the poor and needy "could" be embezzled or used to harm you and these "issues" (as you call them) are the reason why you have right to tamper with God's Directives and give to the wealthy from whom you expect a blessing. BTW, is this why we give? to recieve? or was it meant to show love?

Is it then any suprise that we are arguing? Would you sincerely expect me to agree with your postulations above?

Listen - my sister came to me awhile back. A neighbor (housewife with no job) having recently had a baby, had another on the way and then suddenly lost her husband. Rent became due - we raised the cash for her and then sat down to find a way out of begging for her. How often do you think this happens? EVERYDAY, bros, people are in serious trouble financially. Go to hospitals and see people looking for cash to pay for life threatening issues, not the "issues" you're imagining as an excuse to give what is due to the needy to your rich pastor. Or go to an orphanage - are they pretending too? Take up the schooling of 1 orphan and see it through or anonymously pay for treatment of a serious health problem for someone who doesn't know you. That is God's commandment. (IS 58)

But don't come here self-righteous telling us needy people "may" have other plans! Go, brother, and read the words of Jesus when HE rebuked people for starving their parents by saying what was due them was dedicated to God. Thats what you're doing here and it stinks.

InesQor:
@MyJoe: I will keep saying that of the non-Christians I meet here on NL, the ones I respect the most for their wisdom seem to be You, Krayola and M_nwankwo. Thanks.

Are you serious that MyJoe is not a Christian? Seems unfair He's out of it when I can think of a couple of pastors here who are better suited to paganism. And FYI, Krayola is just pretending (maybe MyJoe too) as far as I'm concerned. God is just biding His time

@Snowy:

You wanted scriptural backing ehn? Please hold a Bible and lets go through the following together.

Deut 26 tells us when we enter the land God is giving us and have taken possession and settled, take "SOME" of the first fruit, go to the place God chooses as His dwelling and say to the "priest" in service at that time "I declare I've come to the place God promised us etc". After its set before God's altar, you make a prayer.

After that, IN THE THIRD (3RD) YEAR (WHICH IS THE YEAR OF THE TITHE), set aside a "tenth" of your produce and give to [1] the levite, [2] the alien [3] the fatherless and [4] the widow. Verses 13 to 15 inform us that you THEN have a right to declare you have done EVERYTHING GOD COMMANDED!

Lets assume getting to the land is "becoming born again". [A] You should take some of your first fruit, not a church imposed "tax" or "portion" or "the entirety of your first fruit"! [B] The place where God chooses as His dwelling is a very interesting concept and I believe Jesus point-blank defined where He lives when he said "when you did to the least of these, it was me you did it for" (Matt 25: 31 - 46). Jesus  lives with the naked, hungry, thirsty, strangers and helpless, not with RICH pastors driving 3 SUV's with money meant for those poor. [C] The word "Priest" is also interesting. Do we not read that the priesthood is now each and every of us possession. When you declare (AGAINST God's Word) that you have another priest, you are in direct sin and rebellion against God's Word. [D] "God's Altar" is obviously your sacrifice which Isaiah 58 verses 6 & 7 define God's Will and guidance for. Please show me pastor/priest etc there!

3 years later, the tithe should go to all of 4 groups of people! The levite, BTW, is included here, because they were not allowed to have "possessions" or work. Todays pastors have 2 ministries - the churchs' and theirs. Theirs is in charge of the books they publish, materials, sermons, gifts etc. All these go to their personal pockets and often run into millions after a crusade or outreach. How many of their congregation make a million a year tax free?

One thing I would like that you consider - Where did the decision to say the "My House" in Malachi 3 refers to your "church building" come from? Since when did God start living in a house built by humans? Scriptural answer please! Whats the size of His bedroom? I'd like to see the bathroom and toilet you built for the Almighty? And then the next church has its own living quarters too so how does God choose where to sleep? Do you get my point? Why can we not be honest and stop this scam "in the name of God"? Is it fair to God Himself knowing He entrusted His Word into our lives for us to turn it into a joke and means for making money. Spiritual 419! Na wa O

Meanwhile, I can imagine a church, rather than expending 2 Billion building a "befitting" catedral with "solid" air-conditioning or a  university to educate youth who will likely not find jobs, using the money to set up a center where hausas can learn trades. Go to Minna - train just 100 in carpentry, masonry, plumbing , electrification, refrigeration technology MONTHLY and turn them loose with 50K each at the end of their free 6 month to a year training. Don't preach to them but have your fellowships in their view and watch how many will join freely. You will learn the power of love by man to turn cold hearts to God. You will also know that it is frustration and poverty that caused Jos and other crisis. These people have no education or training whatsoever or has anyone here come across any number of hausa professional craftsmen? Do the above and you'd have saved their lives, made them "human" and saved the victims of Jos. You would have answered countless families prayers for help from God and helped make the society safer and more prosperous. For lack of such is the reason why they do "dollar dollar" or "sell black market fuel" and since those markets have limits, they now kill people in anger.

BUT we prefer that the "daddy mentor pastor" that gets all the money that would change our society. No wonder Christianity is ridiculed! You people make me want to cry!

davidylan:
Oh yeah that's what i thought. He's a CEC pastor not a christian. those two are mutually exclusive.

Now I know why you won Poster of the year!

@Jesoul,

My revered sister, this re-defining is actually a small part of it. Don't forget their "daddy" said Stephen was killed because he didn't know God enough. When the Bible says "call no man on earth your father", I take that to mean God is "daddy" Once another person then is given that tag, you've named your "god" and his "word" must be numero uno! And in this "god's" word (the HOLY ROR) remission is diffferent from forgiveness.

If you truly want an answer to this question and your aim is not just ridicule, go through

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-419596.0.html#msg5770546

AND

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-419596.0.html#msg5768324

@Image123:

His friend is not irresponsible, just lacking knowledge. Fear made him a slave to the point where he would keep that portion of his income even if his mother or daughter needed it to save their lives. Where he went wrong was in listening to another person intepret God's Word to him rather than read it and get the message himself.

He was "dying because of lack of knowledge"

Hello All:

Thanks for the nice compliments and your interest in these machines! I have severally mentioned that I came into this business as a user rather than a builder and so my machines were designed to please ME! Its sad that most of those who build these machines have never used them and so cannot truly say they understand their products. Please insist on seeing a demonstration so you do not end up like "Pinrikki", having a bad experience.

In Refridgeration, you are removing heat from a "cold" place and transferring it to a "hot" place since the surroundings are hotter than the compartment. Basically then, you are, as it were, fighting against Nature. It is not easy and so, claims should be investigated. Also, realise that putting it together is much easier than using it - your location's conditions matter most in this "mix"

WOFers' are not really smudges! They are more like thick black paint over a vehicle windscreen with the words - "minimum speed 100MPH. Just trust in pastor chris" - on the opaque interior of the glass. Can you imagine a supposed pastor misapplying the Bible and deliberately changing the meaning of God's Word. We used to say Muslims derailed threads with distraction - this is mastery at its peak and they have nothing on him! I'm greater than John. Only me has forgiveness. Others cannot be forgiven. You're insulting me by correcting me. So why didn't Peter say same when Paul corrected him? And no wonder your pastors are having children from all over their congregations. Soon too, banks will ask if you are CE so they know if they are safe employing you

Rubbish! I wish I could put a box of christmas bangers inside your nostrils and set them off.

And yes, Jesoul, EVERYTHING JESUS SAID BEFORE HIS RESURRECTION IS OFF NO IMPORT TODAY because there is better revelation knowledge now! . Shey the Bible said "Jesus wept" abi? Today, He would outright faint