₦airaland Forum

^^^ Semantics. For someone who never left his village, heavens are what he sees. Its God speaking but a man writing in his understanding under inspiration.

God is not a wastrel and I don't think He needs us to prop Him up so He seems great.

This matter is not worthy of debate. I don't know the bearing it has on me today. Issues like false Gospels, the antichrist, Islam etc abound.

^^

^^ Notice I said its my belief, and not that I speak for God.

From the Hebrew, the word "Earth" in verse 17 of Gen 6 is translated as

erets
eh'-rets
From an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or partitively a land): - X common, country, earth, field, ground, land, X nations, way, + wilderness, world.

In effect, "earth" could refer to "a land", "a country", "nations", "a way" OR "a world". A world is not always the same as "the world".

Again, its a personal thing.

@Vescucci:

Thanks for the question - what exactly was the point of the exercise? Why seek to explain away issues about the parting and crossing IF it did not happen? Is there something we're missing here?

Yet the above would have us believe exactly that - science has naught to do except explain away fallacies!

@Kag:

You produced another load of skillfully crafted nonsense and confirm your position as a true believer. You must have been very manipulative as a kid - totally amoral. First, most any dolt knows wikipedia is not the most credible source for information. Stop quoting Wikipedia if you want to be taken seriously. Plus now, its persons you attack. Why didn't you apply same criteria to the persons I named earlier? You walk in and choose who to point fingers at and of course, its those who have affiliations to Christianity that you can critique.

Yes, I did make a mistake about the Kenyon dating. I noticed it earlier but didn't want to look like I was hastily clearing mistakes and I wanted to see if you'd jump on it. Of course, seeing as you require a crutch, you jumped head first. That would be ammunition for such as you whist the NY Times article is mentioned by your august self ONLY to shift focus to persons you can batter. How intellectual!   BTW, could you please inform as to the religious leanings of Kenyon and your other sources and state why that is not significant to her choice of claims when that of Christians is?
Which goes to show what I said earlier - you have a target with Christianity and thus remain formless, amorphous, coming out to engage in guerrilla warfare and thus seeming well armed.

Read what I say - Baal etc worship was VERIFIED not "made known to us" by the Elba material. Why are you taking a bit of this and a bit of that losing the meat along the way - what does that statement which you turn to make yourself seem knowledgeable add or take away EVEN IF it said "made known to us"? Talk about misplaced priorities.

Yet you use a language to make yourself seem intellectual and ask for information to disprove postulations. Which ones? Wikipedia? For all I know, you could have edited the pages there. People do so, you know, and that tells the extent of your scholastic desires

I won't bother to continue with this conversation- its disgusting. My only point here was to show there could be other explanations to what you would wish away and this type of reasoning shows your lack of truthfulness and knowledge. You're just picking randomly from all over trying to sound "hype". Reminds me of a friend who said of another dude - His knowledge of the subject matter could be acquired posthumously. Go educate yourself and find truth

But then, you'll yawn again seeing as you already made up your mind and facts don't matter. Its time for bed and there's no point me coming against an unarmed civilian. Please yourself with your folly

I apologize if my view gives you concern. It is a personal view based on my own study and "faith" which is based on

[1] Eden was a location - "LOCALISED" to someplace and not global.
[2] The timing from Adam to Noah gives me to believe that the world's populace had not spread like it has today to all continents
[3] Need - why would God destroy people in say, Europe, by destroying the 6 continents. Why not a precision strike?
[4] Pedigree of God - This just buttresses [3] above - God is not wasteful so why the whole world if Europe is all that is needed?
[5] Language - Even till today, we say the whole world and refer only to Earth. Is that the whole world? So why couldn't those who knew their "locality" as the entire world have called it the world? Some today have the whole world as their hometown.
[6] I do not think it glorifies God to assume. Contrary to what most non-Christians want to believe, we are encouraged to study and "test all spirits" - that includes the facts set out for us. Science is gradually accepting many things they once vociferously insisted did not happen. Why shouldn't we too study and put God in His rightful place. What I have come to understand is what I have postulated and it is defensible from both Biblical and the scientific point of view today (please note that science is not my standard but it helps to clarify things at times) .

But again - I have not said I am right. I have only presented my belief.

Your second question puzzles me as even your choice of words defeats your argument- yes, there are "LOCAL" floods wreaking havoc today. Is any global? Why the comparison when you agree they are "LOCAL"?

^^ Ah, my favorite only true Atheist on NL.

I always hate arguing with you - you're too honest its difficult getting to twist your hand behind your back. Unlike the average belligerent "hype" dude out to seem knowledgable

^^^ Batman? No but likely Spider-man!

What then, do you make of the following?

Kenyon is the greatest proponent of "Jericho was down before Joshua" crossed the waters. Her work has been critiqued and guess what - bull!

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Was_the_Battle_of_Wall_of_Jericho_historical and http://www.nytimes.com/1990/02/22/world/believers-score-in-battle-over-the-battle-of-jericho.html offer new insight on Kenyon's "theories" which were based on

[1] the dating of the building of the wall rather than when they went down
[2] Evidence found by other Archeological parties AFTER her dismissive yet shallow search. Page 2 of the New York times site link states the shallowness of her study.

Yet you insist and would take the view of a study from 1906 over that of continuing study. Did your world of learning end in 1906? Or is the NY times a Christian fundamentalist organization?

On historicity of the Bible, there are "authoritative" sources that deny Biblical history but just because "authoritative" sources declare a thing to be so, doesn’t mean it is so. Below is some information. Tell me then - which study, which authority is right…?

Professor William F. Albright, archeologist and head of Palestine’s American School of Oriental Research, observed, “The excessive skepticism shown toward the Bible by important historical schools… has been progressively discredited. Discovery after discovery has established the accuracy of innumerable details, and has brought increased recognition to the value of the Bible as a source of history.”

1. Written records from over 4,000 years ago. Dr. Paolo Matthiae, Director of the Italian Archeological Mission in Syria, “hit an archeological jackpot” in 1975. He discovered “the greatest third-millennium [B.C.] archive ever unearthed.” It included “more than 15,000 cuneiform tablets and fragments” and unveiled a Semitic empire that dominated the Middle East more than four thousand years ago. Its hub was Ebla, where educated scribes filled ancient libraries with written records of history, people, places and commerce.

“These early tablets display an ease of expression, an elegance that indicates complete mastery of the cuneiform system by the scribes,” said Dr. Giovanni Pettinato, former epigraphist of the Italian Mission, who worked closely with Dr. Matthiae. “One can only conclude that writing had been in use at Ebla for a long time before 2500 B.C.”

The Ebla tablets verified the worship of pagan gods such as Baal, Dagan and Asherah “known previously only from the Bible.” They mention the name “Abraham” and “Ur of Chaldees” (the Biblical Abraham’s birthplace) as well as other familiar cities and places:

“The names of cities thought to have been founded much later, such as Beirut and Byblos, leap from the tablets. Damascus and Gaza are mentioned, as well as two of the Biblical cities of the plain, Sodom and Gomorrah. … Most intriguing of all are the personal names found on the Ebla tablets. They include Ab-ra-mu (Abraham), E-sa-um (Esau)….”

Destroyed and rebuilt several times, Ebla began its final decline around 1800 B.C. Since new generations settled on top of the old ruins, it left behind a many-layered structure which archeologists will continue to explore for years to come.

Centuries later, Moses was trained “in all the wisdom of the Egyptians” (Acts 7:22). Raised at Pharaoh’s court, he would have learned to write on fragile papyrus as well as clay tablets. The 1988 discovery of the TEL el Amarna letters shows us that written messages were an important part of Moses’ culture:

“…there were about 400 cuneiform tablets discovered at this site which were part of the royal archives of Amenhotep III and Amenhotep IV (Akhenaten) who reigned about 1400 BC. Among them were letters written in Babylonian cuneiform script to these Pharaohs of Egypt by various kings dwelling in the land of Canaan and Syria… written during the time of Moses [and Joshua]. They provide the first evidence of the Hebrew tribes entering into the land of Canaan in ancient times.”

That last sentence points to the completion of the Biblical Exodus — the Israelite journey, led by Moses, out of bondage in Egypt toward the land God had promised them.

But your “scholars” simply choose to ignore the evidence, as do you. After all, politically correct deceptions are far more acceptable than facts to a world that no longer tolerates Truth. Other examples of archeological finds opposed to "SCIENCE"

2. The Hittite Empire: The Hittites are mentioned dozens of times in the Old Testament. A century ago, "critics" of Biblical historicity argued that the Bible’s descriptions of the Hittite Empire were later insertions, since they were certain the Hittite Empire didn’t exist…. But also in 1906, archaeologists unearthed the Hittite capital and in the years following excavated what is now known to have been a massive and very prominent Hittite civilization…

Then from “Judaism 101″…
Moses, Aaron and Miriam were the leaders of the Children of Israel at a pivotal time in our history: the Exodus from Egypt and the forty years of wandering in the desert before the people entered the Promised Land. An entire book could be written on the stories of these three people. Indeed, four books have already been written: the biblical books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, which tell the story of their life and times.

As with the stories of the patriarchs, modern scholars question the historical accuracy of this information; however, scholars also claimed that the Torah could not have been written at that time because alphabetic writing did not exist … and then archaeologists dug up 4000 year old samples of alphabetic writing….[/b]Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, known as the Patriarchs, are both the physical and spiritual ancestors of Judaism. They founded the religion now known as Judaism, and their descendants are the Jewish people. Of course, technically, it is incorrect to refer to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as Jews, because the terms “Jew” and “Judaism” were not used generally to refer to this nation until hundreds of years after their time; nevertheless, for convenience and in accordance with common practice, we use these terms.

The above is derived from written Torah, Talmud, Midrash and other sources. Modern scholars question the existence of the Patriarchs and the historical accuracy of this information; however, it is worth noting that scholars also questioned the existence of Babylonia and Troy… until archaeologists found them…

Basically then, there are other "scientific" sources, equally authoritative, that would, also using archaeology, disprove your postulations.

It appears that you seem quite happy to have found a source that speaks with “authority” claiming to disprove much of the Old Testament’s writings and that is fine by you. But there is as much evidence to the opposite…that the Bible is accurate, provable, and true.

Be honest in what you write or better still, be informed before you write. Do your research. Attempts to rip apart someone’s faith, by quoting one specific “authority” when there are other equally trustworthy "authorities" over an issue that is STILL BEING STUDIED is obviously manipulative, deluded and totally unwarranted especially when newer findings indicate foot in mouth tactics.

^^ Standard operating procedure - cast aspersions to sound educated but when information is shown or/and your tactics are used against you, become belligerent and defensive.

Fact - there was a crossing. Your task - explain it. You could say 25, 000 men, women and children swam across! Thats a better explanation than a miracle, ain't it?
Fact - I brought evidence FROM YOUR SIDE OF THE DIVIDE. Your task - bring your incontrovertible evidence. I didn't point to evidence I couldn't show
Fact - I am speaking specifics and so were you prior to now. Why are you going "generally speaking" now? Cat got your tongue?
Fact - I know the pedigree of the "The Aeneid". Don't compare myth with reality. Thats the pitiful fallacy here- start with white and end with black jumping the divide with a shove by bitter ungrounded disbelief.

Sadly for you, the "Red" or "Reed" sea crossing was not mythical. The "scientists" I named believe the Biblical explanations to be absurd and wish to explain it away. Which is their problem. But they have educated themselves enough to be able to separate fact from fiction. So they are not explaining "Atlantis". Take the hint. Appeal to authority the right () way so we see your point! right now, its just a load of "I refuse to accept because I don't want to"

If I carry a chip having a religion and being in a religious discussion, I wonder what you carry insisting on not believing what even your mentors have accepted yet hanging around religious discussions. Hint - I'm not offering or looking for a job - what would I be doing haunting the forum job section? You sure the pangs of doubt are not biting deeper than is comfortable?

^^^ Its actually very fascinating and watching the episodes tells a lot about how science can be a donkey atimes. The fantasies of "we believe it happened thus and thus" are simply interesting to see. "I don't know" is allowable but no, not for these people - they know God does not exist yet they spend all their time trying to disprove His existence. They also know Miracles cannot be real so spend so much trying to find "reasons" why things happened that cannot be explained.

Translations, deliberate mischief and misunderstandings could have impacted on the words and exactness of the Bible over the years but just saying "it didn't happen because such doesn't happen daily" is just plain daft, IMO. No one ever said it was a physics textbook that depended on exactness.

KAG:
Or better still, a Christian scientist trying to ground a Biblical report in a plausible physical explanation. IIRC, Carl Drews, the lead scientist on this, is a Christian.

By the way, at the risk of pointing out the obvious, you guys realise that what Drews and his team are saying is more or less "this is a possible way what was reported in the Bible could have happened".

For someone seeking a prop, I grant it COULD be a desire to find plausible explanations for these events. However, you might be better served actually bothering to search and find out what other experts believe. Currently the consensus is that these events happened but that the supernatural portions "may" be explained differently.

An example - The fall of the walls of Jericho.

A scientific study wonders why Rahab the prostitute tied a red scarf "OUTSIDE" the walls (since a war INSIDE wouldn't see a rope OUTSIDE.
Science thus states that whist Israel walked around the wall for 7 days, Joshua sent up 10 men at a time up the rope Rahab had used to let down the spies. The march around distracted the watchers since they just kept their eyes on the marching army. By the seventh day, a sizable force was in her apartment and their appearance inside figuratively "sent" the walls down. It is noteworthy that science refused to accept this battle took place as it did until presented with incontrovertible evidence. Same with the incidence at the Red Sea where science postulates that it was the "Reed" sea and that what Moses did was put the fire heading the column "BEHIND" his people so whist Egypt thought they were coming towards them and were blinded by the brazier fires, low tide allowed Israel to cross the Sea. By morning when Pharaoh realised they'd crossed, tide was coming in and the swamp couldn't support the weight of Iron chariots hence the sinking of Pharaoh's ordinance.

Do you seek explanations for what did not happen? Or why postulate theories for what didn't happen? Which tells you what?

The desire to find "logical" explanations comes only because findinds are showing these things happened. We (Christians) have an explanation. Science is trying to understand but with foot already in mouth prior to now, the desire is to explain away or water down!

But do not believe me - The "History Channel" broadcast a series called "Battles BC" and you can download the programs free if you have a torrent downloader at thepirateorg.bay. If you would like the exact URL to download, let me know.

The program is moderated by amongst others,

David George Ph.D
Director, Institute of Mediterranean Archeology
Professor of Classics, St. Anselm College and author of over 40 books

Steven Weingartner
Author, Chariots like a whirlwind,
The Saga of Chariotry and Chariot Warfare

Richard A. Gabriel Ph. D
Distinguished Professor
Royal Military college of Canada

Mark Schwartz, Ph.D
Department of Anthropology
Grand Valley State University

I'd like to see you put your credibility against the above or that of the History Channel. Google will show you the background of the men named above so you can quickly bury your "Christian Scientist" theory.

As "Davidylan" is wont to say - "There is something to attack in Faith/belief which is why you guys seem to have points" - doubt and questions always sound enlightened, non-compromising and "hype" .

But remember, just as I will not call you wrong for what someone else said, you ought not carry your big stick around thinking all Christians are unaware of truth or non-desirous of it. Some of us are not in it for the money or the emotional comfort.

@Inesqor:

^^^ Actually, its more like science looking for a way to explain something they've been forced to agree happened yet desire to water down

Joke's on science here

^^ Ah, you've joined the "boy" club - First was Abuzola, then Joagbaje, Fyneguy, Nopugeater, and now DeepSight. How fitting! Good company for you!

You've fast become my favorite poster here. Sadly, the mold is similar to that hitherto reserved for Abuzola who you just showed to be your mentor. Enjoy your sensitiveness and finickyness - I only hope it doesn't point to other effeminate tendencies

@DS:

So now you stalk me? Whats so painful? You give too much away with this victim thing - remind me to get under your skin weekly if thats makes you hard. I'm that comfy with myself that I'll bully you if you enjoy it so much

BTW, a lack of rules is different from a lack of ethics - are you seeking support from the Atheist community? I think they wear their glasses and thinking caps when they read so are able to see that elementary difference that escaped you. Maybe you should do a reset and wear a set too.

Are Atheists The Most Intelligent People?

Imagine a soccer match - one team has rules

1. no hands
2. no rough tackles
3. only 11 of you on the field
4. etc

The other team has none - 200 of you, use hands, teeth, throw punches, carry clubs (swords, if you like)

I suspect the "no=rules" side will seem to have an upper hand.

What do you critique in atheism? That they don't "know" or that science is still learning more? There's a target with deists and none with atheists so its easy to seem "sharp" - Just be as belligerent as you can manage and quote as many other belligerent people who also are quoting other belligerent people etc. And if push comes to shove, say "we're still learning, science is advancing daily"

Very intelligent

Given a finding from the past, scientists are prone to "date" such to the maximum possible - casting doubt on the Bible.
Given information concerning events, the tendency is to say "no evidence exists" and thus fault claims. When such evidence surfaces, the choice is usually to ignore it and where impossible, to ascribe other causal factors - same idea - cast doubt
Given incontrovertible evidence, science says we're still learning more and its likely a power in the human that we haven't tapped or understood

Who's fooling who?

Most have made up their minds. Facts and truth mean nothing! Thats why assertions like the above come into existence - I choose not to believe and so refuse to accept truth no matter what!

^^ Sorry Mummy: Was far yet here! Had some pressing business to attend to.

I referred to cause AND effect. For every effect we see in Nature, there exists a cause. Nothing starts by itself!

Aside that, nature itself provides us a balance in which I see design - its called the food chain and I would that Vescucci consider that its a cycle that if you removed man from, would approach perfection. Man, which is the "strange portion" of that chain is the only one allowed the capability to take something given to him and make of it another thing - thus possessing the capability to upturn "nature". That is the message given in the creation story - difference, the power to tend, to build up or tear down BUT within limits.

Allowed to run riot without control, I believe men would have destroyed everything as we know it but repeatedly, an unseen hand ensures that even with all that power, men end up unable to change the status quo. That I see as nature portraying God to us.

Effect shows a "Cause"! On every single level. EVERY SINGLE ONE!

^^^ The argument is not whether it exists today or not. It is the certainty of the assertion that it does not.

Note the assertion is based solely on feeling - radio is here and so is tv THEREFORE it doesn't exist anymore (not it is no longer necessary).

I was speaking to someone today about a couple of "friends" who felt they were competing with me business-wise and ended up losing more than anyone thought possible. I told him nature preaches to us better than even the Bible - plant a seed, watch it bud, watch it grow, tend it, nuture it, get rid of weeds and in the NATURAL time (for its species), it will bring forth (based on the level of nurture it had). Thus Maize will not bud in the time Oranges do. My point concerning my business as expressed to my friend was that cash crops take longest but when they start, thats it. Cocoa will not fruit in Maizes' 3 months no matter what you do. I basically showed him the process and nurturing I went through!

You might want to try same and seek God in nature - Nature teaches better than scholarship or intellect and its there obvious to us all (if we look).

^^^

Oh, an assumption! Radio, TV and print media are the new equivalent of dreams, visions and speaking in tongues, right?

I think you need to re-assess your beliefs, Sir/Ma.

A statement such as "Femi" is dead infers certainty of his demise rather than a "feeling" that since you've not seen him for the past 5 years, definitely he must be dead.

1 Cor 13:8 did not give a timeline and God still retains choice to use whatever He wishes to pass the message across. That said, I am not supporting the machine-guns on the pulpits, only stating the obvious - no one has right to determine for God His timing.

Interesting that scientists NOW accept the plagues of Egypt took place. They also accept the exodus. They also accept there was a flood which could have been the Biblical flood though they insist it was regional. Now this. Based on the desire to deny, what they do is try to find other reasons to ascribe for these phenomena - nature, volcanoes, earthquake etc. And why not? - accepting they were wrong will bring into focus the fact that most postulations MAY be wrong.

When it comes to their own theories of evolution, its supposition after supposition. There are as many dating techniques as there are scientists and 5 experts will offer 5 ages for any "fossil". But all of these mean not much. What matters and truly encapsules the truth is succintly exposed above - "And so?"

Whether it is true or not doesn't matter then. What matters is its to advantage to deny it or belittle it!

I just want to imagine what would have happened had it been the pregnant Mary and Joseph that had approached this "church" for marriage.

That case proves it is God that joins, not churches! But the "church owners" would have it other wise so they don;t lose the power they hold over members

A "christian" says Bible miscalculation. Basically then, the Bible knows nothing! This chaps totally gone or maybe he never came anyway. Where are those dolts that jump in to applaud whenever he speaks - please come applaud his decision the Bible doesn't "KNOW" but miscalculate.

Joagbaje:
@altheia,

The pre admit age is confirmed in several scripture, I will give you some.

Firstly , God told Adam to "replenish" the earth, re-plenish in English means , to re- fill . That tells us , the world was one occupied. You may call it Atlantis or any name. Scientific evidence by radio carbon dating proves this fact. That is why many scientist have problem with creation. Because evidence shows million of years existence while bible miscalculation shows earth is 6,000 years old. The fossil evidence to a great extent are true . Dinosaurs existed millions of Years ago.

The mis understanding is from chapter 1 of genesis .

Genesis 1:1-2
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness[ was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

This is where Christians missed it for years. There was a gap between verse 1 and 2 . A gap of millions of years.God can not create confusion.He created a perfect world, filled with people and civilisation in verse 1. He didn't create it void.

Isaiah 45:18
18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I[ am] the LORD; and[ there is] none else.


He didn't create it vain and empty , something led to the earth being void . If you have an N.I.V translation. There is a footnote on verse 2. Which says the earth possibly became void .

Bible evidence shows that the rebellion of lucifer led to the chaos of verse 2 of genesis.

Jeremiah 4:23-25
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo,[ it was] without form, and void; and the heavens, and they[ had] no light. 24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. 25 I beheld, and, lo,[ there was] no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.


This was what led to verse 2 . There were once men, birds animal, Dragons and dinosaurs. Millions of years ago. But the men were not in the image of God . It is believed that those men that once existed on earth are the demons on earth today. Who desperately look for a human body to express themselves. If you know anybody who has seen a demon, they will tell you of their strange structure, and their ugliness . Some hunters in those days will tell you of strange creatures they came across while in thick forest. They are more than human beings in number, they are all over the world. They are mobilizing for the final war. God is raising his army too. That's why we must know who we are in christ. We don't have anything of our own. Our ability is simply the authority we have in christ.christ is not coming for a chiken church.

Mark 16:17-18
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Ezekiel 28:12-17
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, Thus says the Lord GOD:"You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
14 You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.
16 By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned;
Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
Out of the mountain of God;
And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the fiery stones.
17 Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
I cast you to the ground,
I laid you before kings,
That they might gaze at you.

Now someone that doesn't understand prophecy studies may think it was just applying to a man. The attributes of the being here goes beyond a man, and any prophecy student knows that.

So this is not only dakes affair, Scofield bible , Niv, dakes and other renowned bible scholars affirms the fact.

That world was destroyed by water, that's why the bible says water covered the face of the deep.

2 Peter 3:6-8
6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

This flood here is an antediluvian flood, and not noah's flood , because the flood of Noah was only limited to earth but the flood lucifer destroyed the heavens and earth.

Whats the source for men NOT created in the image of God. Or that they are now demons especially since the Bible says demons are fallen Angels and their domain was Heaven. Where does Agbaje get they populated the earth from?

And the rest of the rubbish above is just rubish - white space construed to hide error in a slew of words.

Don't worry - your lawyer will come rescue you and hit his head against the floor again soon.

@Kieryn:

Could you please enlighten me on this issue of dreams, visions, etc being done away with. There has to be a source for such a precise statement- please lets have it

@Joagbaje:

Why do you sneak in to respond? Why not confront this head on rather than waiting till posts are long past before responding to them?

Joagbaje:
@ nuclearboy
I said in the ealier post that there was a process of perfection for man. Adam was not patient enough for the process to complete. The fruit was not evil . The fruit contained the secret of mans perfection. Things went awry because they ate it by the word of satan and not at Gods appointed time.

Adam was not yet perfect. He was in a process. For example , God told him to replenish the earth,and reproduce. We don't know how many days or months they were in the garden, but the man that was to replenish the earth did not even know he was unclothed! How on earth will he replenish the earth?. He only got awareness of his unclothed part when he ate the fruit. the Godship of man has process of development. There's  is legal aspect and vital aspect. Legally he was , but vitally he had to develop fully into it.   A little boy is a man but still growing into man hood. He is a boy , he is a man.

Ephesians 4:15
15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head- Christ

Ephesians 3:18-19
18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height- 19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God

If you buy a benz for a 16 years old boy , he has to wait few years to drive it.

Why were they still confined in a garden, when they had an assignment to replenish entire earth.There was another significant tree meant for man in the garden. The tree of life . Which I believe was for the final stage of his developmental process by granting him permanence and immortality. God created man in his image( spirit) and likenes ( physical appearance) then he had to be trained in his faculties to exercise his dominion. When he matures , he eats the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Then he eats the tree of life and remain permanent in that state of perfection. He is now ready.

God instructed him to excercise dominion. He even helped him out by making him give names to animals.

For the tree of knowledge of good and evil , the word "good and evil" simply refers to judgement or descernment. . Its not refering to ability to do evil and good but to discern , to judge.which is a sign of maturity.

So ,To know. Good and evil then means to judge aright. Because one of mans assignment  is to judge angels and other beings.

John 5:22
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

We and christ are one. Even though he is my lord yet We are brothers.

And God told YOU that He was waiting for a time to tell Adam to eat the fruit, ehn? Please show scripture supporting this. For what the bible says is point blank - "don't eat it". MAN WAS GIVEN LIMITS so he would not grow past his pants (like you would)!

Adam was not yet "perfect"? Are you sure your prescription was filled alright and you're not taking hypertension pills for insanity? God made ALL things perfect is what the Bible you claim to believe says. It was Man that "devised many things". If you want a quote, let me know - it will only show your poor scholarship of the Bible to ask! For its between you and God - either the Bible is right and you are wrong or you are right and it is wrong

But you are NOT speaking the truth - growing up into Christ does not mean becoming Him or co-equal with Him. And the love of Christ does not include handing His Glory over unto you.

I don't know about you but I started driving at 11 and got my first car (my mothers old 404) when I was just 15 and admitted to the university- your extents of your experience does not encompass that of humanity

When did God tell you His plan that ensured they were still in a garden? Who informed you the Garden was not figurative for earth and closing the door behind them at exile was not a Spiritual matter? Plus who gives a "F" what your beliefs are? Are you not the same person who "deosn't know if Moses died or not"? Are you not the one who believed Adam was cut in 2 with his female repro organs separated to form Eve? Dude, your beliefs suggest Angeldust sprinkled on indian hemp and washed down with sapele number 4 after not eating for 4 days!

If your gate is locked and your maiguard asks a 10:30pm visitor what their business is, does that mean the maiguard is lord of the gate? Does the gate still NOT belong to you?

Trick reasoning does not belong on NairaLand - here, EVERYONE posts and others respond. Think before you post all the rubbish you keep spewing.

Zikkyy:
You can monetize the worship. I know Jo, he will gladly accept cash in lieu of worship

Based on your analysis here, are you saying Jo’s godly powers are restricted to harassing goats and chickens as well as bulldozing trees

True talk - why desire worship when cash is available?

All Hail the Lord of mutton and chicken flesh! Truly then, the dude "gods" those (till they die and as long as they belong to him - WHAT a mighty god)

Liar!

Where's the "fool" issue? AND I said your RESPONSE was daft, not you. I stated and anyone who is honest will intepret my statement of embarrassment to mean even satan would be embarrassed by your brazenness considering the absurdity of your position and statement.

And where does anyone throwing mud start from? Which reminds me to look in a mirror too! But then, I am not proud or vain and neither do I take myself seriously enough to believe/expect I can fling it but am protected by infinity from taking it.

So again I say, Liar!

"Tend the garden" has become "you are God over the garden and the rest of the earth"!

Amazing how one can start with a portion of truth and end with a totality of error.

My maiguard is therefore "GOD" of my gate. Joagbaje is GOD of his mouth! Every dolt is GOD of idiocy.

^^ Hi, babe!

Seriously, seriously, SERIOUSLY though, 40+ years and I've been reading over 3 decades of those. And I thought I read to industrial levels plus its not like I spent that much time reading porn on the web I always loved books so much my dad gave me my first hadley chase at 9 and I've not looked back since. Most people I meet wonder how I managed to read so much about so many things.

YET the two of you make me feel like an illiterate which would explain why I thought you both must be like 95 years old (at least )!

Do you eat? Do you work? Do you even breathe or you found a way to breathe in stuff? I tire O. Its gotten so I wonder if you guys are not each an entire readers club sharing one ID and trying to make me run mad with doubts about my education being something that really happened.

Could that be it? Are you "clubs"?