₦airaland Forum

kikuyu1:
Nwoke37,you seem intelligent compared to the rest of these Dangotelanders stumbling around in a daze screeching about imaginary Giant status,after ALL THIS TIME STILL AS BLIND AS STEVIE WONDER!

[img]http://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSsG_M-ehSd_C-ojIeUQsfvDCfRmWt2yu7dhdCrK-xPzQk0JRgq5Q[/img]

[img]https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRu9hw-Jz9OGIuvlhwpfKMa1KR_dgulJqJSKbJFBYHJ7U2TmV-H[/img]

Operating a plant on this scale isn't like pressing switches and throwing levers! There's like 60 km of track,2 thermal power plants,2 basic furnaces (nowadays,electric arc furnaces are used),water treatment and sewerage plant,foundry and patterning shop,forge and fabrication shop,machine tools shop ,etc ,etc which have been unused since installation in the late 70s!
What is the condition now? Are they still usable after decades of disuse? I think not! Even if usable they're still 4 decades obsolete overtaken by much more modern equipment competitively producing cheap steel. China is doing 800 mnt +,Japan and India both 100 mnt,Brazil is at 40 mnt + yearly. Heard of Arcelor Mittal,China Baowu group,Nippon Steel and Sumitomo Metal Corp,Tata Steel? Those are the global steel giants.

Assume you can get natural gas to run the power plants and the iron ore to smelt imo that's another huge issue-how to break into the market and carve out a share with old outdated equipment.
Have you seen this:
https://www.von.gov.ng/ajaokuta-steel-company-652million-estimated-to-reactivate-equipment-machines/

Imo,from the little I've seen of modern foundry operations and the hi tech involved that's a third of the real cost. See this short vid of a huge foundry using a massive pneumo hammer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEF2erBBVZ4

As you observe look at the human capacity-the skill of the guys who made the forging and the forklift operators takes time-years even.

He mentioned to $652 million to reactivate the plant... Not build the whole thing... Nigeria spent about $8 billion building the plant... Yeah the technology is obsolete... But also remmeber steel prices are going higher becuase of trade wars... plus there's the Nigerian domestic market... and perhaps Ecowas... Ajakouta Steel would be closer to them, instead of importing from Europe or China
even big steel companies like POSCO use blast furnaces
The equipment has been regularly maintained(at least the important ones)... So it's still usable
The skilled workers are there.. trained by the Russians before leaving

What matters is that they get the plant running, producing steel, then we can start upgrading the equipment...
I mean if we don't get the plant running it would be a huge waste... For many countries, projects like these are the backbone of their industrialization..
If Nigeria can get this project running there might be hope for Nigeria

gallivant:
Why isn't it operational after decades? That's the underlying issue.

corruption...
That's also the answer to most questions if not all on why Nigeria is doing poorly

gallivant:
How can honestly say that when Nigeria doesn't have enough power for cooking food? You are not in South Africa's level on power output and consumption.

As of 2015, Nigeria had about 20 functional steel mills... Dangote also has a steel mill

https://www.proshareng.com/news/Commodities/Nigeria-now-has-21-functional-steel-mills---See-Distribution/25792

gallivant:
The thing is not operational even after a decade and 10s of billions wasted. I think you should welcome back to reality!

That's the whole point, it isn't operational... The Nigerian government wants to get it operational...

nyaber334:

my nig's you need more power than the entire west africa produces to run steel mills economically,
something close to southafrica's power output ,even they would be struggling.

Nigeria already runs several steel mills
same with South Africa... ur point?

kikuyu1:
Being Dangoteland,I must ask where the power supply come from? Furnaces are huge energy consumers!

An electric arc furnace (EAF) is a furnace that heats charged material by means of an electric arc.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_arc_furnace

Imagine what Ajaokuta would require.


http://ietd.iipnetwork.org/content/electric-arc-furnace

Haiyyya! This is a bridge too far! A quick rough estimate using those figures and Ajaokuta's full yearly production of 1.3 mn tonnes shows even with a very modest 40% production it would take maybe even half of your entire patchy national energy output!?
First pic is a 1000T electric arc furnace.

Estimates are at 5 million to 10 million tonnes per year(yes, some sources say 1 million) ... If you watch the aljazeera video, it says 10 million metric tonnes per year...
But the power supply issue you mentioned were taken into consideration when the plant was built... as well as rail.. and the iron ore to be used..
I also believe Ajakouta doesn't have an electric arc furnace... It has a blast furnace that utilizes coking coal to power it
... do your research well

Did you watch the aljazeera video??

I remember asking my father if Nigeria got its independence too early... He told me Nigeria would have been worse if we got independence later... He mentioned how the politicians are more corrupt now than during the time of Nigeria's independence wherein those leaders worked together for Nigeria's development/independence...

He also mentioned that the current politicians we have now are even willing to sell Nigeria if they have the chance... He kept on repeating that there is no hope for Nigeria..

I later mused over my father's words...
I realized our politicians have in fact been selling Nigeria bit by bit... Because of corruption, we have poor power supply, substandard roads, un- regular water supply, poor education facilities, poor health facilities, etc..
Without those facilities you can't attract jobs(both domestic and foreign)... so we have high rates of poverty... And because of high rates of poverty we have high rates of insecurity...

What I know is that once oil ceases to become a major thing in our world, Nigeria would cease to exist as a nation, if corruption isn't massively tackled..

I hope one day Nigeria proves my father wrong, that there's hope for Nigeria

I remember asking my father if Nigeria got its independence too early... He told me Nigeria would have been worse if we got independence later... He mentioned how the politicians are more corrupt now than during the time of Nigeria's independence wherein those leaders worked together for Nigeria's development/independence...

He also mentioned that the current politicians we have now are even willing to sell Nigeria if they have the chance... He kept on repeating that there is no hope for Nigeria..

I later mused over my father's words...
I realized our politicians have in fact been selling Nigeria bit by bit... Because of corruption, we have poor power supply, substandard roads, un- regular water supply, poor education facilities, poor health facilities, etc..
Without those facilities you can't attract jobs(both domestic and foreign)... so we have high rates of poverty... And because of high rates of poverty we have high rates of insecurity...

What I know is that once oil ceases to become a major thing in our world, Nigeria would cease to exist as a nation, if corruption isn't massively tackled..

I hope one day Nigeria proves my father wrong, that there's hope for Nigeria

I remember asking my father if Nigeria got its independence too early... He told me Nigeria would have been worse if we got independence later... He mentioned how the politicians are more corrupt now than during the time of Nigeria's independence wherein those leaders worked together for Nigeria's development/independence...

He also mentioned that the current politicians we have now are even willing to sell Nigeria if they have the chance... He kept on repeating that there is no hope for Nigeria..

I later mused over my father's words...
I realized our politicians have in fact been selling Nigeria bit by bit... Because of corruption, we have poor power supply, substandard roads, un- regular water supply, poor education facilities, poor health facilities, etc..
Without those facilities you can't attract jobs(both domestic and foreign)... so we have high rates of poverty... And because of high rates of poverty we have high rates of insecurity...

What I know is that once oil ceases to become a major thing in our world, Nigeria would cease to exist as a nation, if corruption isn't massively tackled..

I hope one day Nigeria proves my father wrong, that there's hope for Nigeria

I remember asking my father if Nigeria got its independence too early... He told me Nigeria would have been worse if we got independence later... He mentioned how the politicians are more corrupt now than during the time of Nigeria's independence wherein those leaders worked together for Nigeria's development/independence...

He also mentioned that the current politicians we have now are even willing to sell Nigeria if they have the chance... He kept on repeating that there is no hope for Nigeria..

I later mused over my father's words...
I realized our politicians have in fact been selling Nigeria bit by bit... Because of corruption, we have poor power supply, substandard roads, un- regular water supply, poor education facilities, poor health facilities, etc..
Without those facilities you can't attract jobs(both domestic and foreign)... so we have high rates of poverty... And because of high rates of poverty we have high rates of insecurity...

What I know is that once oil ceases to become a major thing in our world, Nigeria would cease to exist as a nation, if corruption isn't massively tackled..

I hope one day Nigeria proves my father wrong, that there's hope for Nigeria

I remember asking my father if Nigeria got its independence too early... He told me Nigeria would have been worse if we got independence later... He mentioned how the politicians are more corrupt now than during the time of Nigeria's independence wherein those leaders worked together for Nigeria's development/independence...

He also mentioned that the current politicians we have now are even willing to sell Nigeria if they have the chance... He kept on repeating that there is no hope for Nigeria..

I later mused over my father's words...
I realized our politicians have in fact been selling Nigeria bit by bit... Because of corruption, we have poor power supply, substandard roads, un- regular water supply, poor education facilities, poor health facilities, etc..
Without those facilities you can't attract jobs(both domestic and foreign)... so we have high rates of poverty... And because of high rates of poverty we have high rates of insecurity...

What I know is that once oil ceases to become a major thing in our world, Nigeria would cease to exist as a nation, if corruption isn't massively tackled..

I hope one day Nigeria proves my father wrong, that there's hope for Nigeria

alexxo11:
slauwetin??abegiii common bokoharam dey worry una for una country...na foreign country una wan form guyman??

ur pidgin is fluent... how long did it take you to learn pidgin

naijalander:
Bleep this guy!

don't mind the guy, he's comparing a new city built from scratch to a few buildings... It'll take approximately 35 years for Eko Atlantic to be done, while 2 years for those buildings to be done

sufferNsmiling:
You are another person which believes he is in heaven when he is in hell. Two out of every three people in lagos live in slums.60 to 70% of people in nigeria live in slums. So could lagos and abuja are 15 and 16 waste cities in africa

guy mind yourself... Everybody knows Nigeria isn't heaven...However is Kenya heaven
If you want to troll don't mention me... We all know Nigeria is a shithole as well as Kenya...

GERALD710:
Eko Atlantic is a PRIVATE initiative.
Where is Nigeria's Government in building such citiesAnd please do not tell me Abuja because it has been well established here Abuja does not match up to either Cape Town or Nairobi, both cities older than it.
Egypt has its New Cairo
Kenya has Konza
Nigeria Federal Government has
Egypt has

And i'll also wager Nairobi doesn't have a metro rail... Abuja just got one... It'll be commissioned at the end of the month...
Don't where you got the idea Nairobi beats Abuja... maybe just because Nairobi has skyscrapers??

kikuyu1:
Dangotelanders,we first showed you the Pinnacle 3d renders when it was just a hole in the ground. See how it grows! It'll be standing before your Eko thing is ready-wanna bet? It shows how a good plan and commitment can work through problems that always appear in a project of mthis magnitude.

https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/lifestyle/society/Men-behind-the-iconic-Sh20bn-Hilton-Tower/3405664-4531384-12b7qpvz/index.html

Eko Atlantic is a city not a building... so ... Eko Atlantic is already more advanced in construction than your konza

Yobeezy:
Swahili is the most spoken language in Africa with more than 100 Million speakers.
It's now even being taught in other continents like America.
Nigerian pidgin is still small and useless..
Nigerians stop raping English language.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfcF6f98Gnw

And i wager 200 million people know pidgin... exclude Nigeria's neighbors

GERALD710:
Eko Atlantic is a PRIVATE initiative.
Where is Nigeria's Government in building such citiesAnd please do not tell me Abuja because it has been well established here Abuja does not match up to either Cape Town or Nairobi, both cities older than it.
Egypt has its New Cairo
Kenya has Konza
Nigeria Federal Government has
Egypt has

Eko Atlantic was actually initiated by the the Lagos government... Lagos paid money for the reclamation and and wall to protect Lagos from flooding.. The private company then decided to expand the project and create an entire new city..Supposedly, the idea of a new city was pitched to the investor by the Lagos state governor, and they bought it...

And it seems like you forgot about Centenary City... That was actually initiated by the government.. They then brought Eagle Hills(private sector) to mange and invest in the project

There are also other island city projects in Lagos initiated by the government... There also other projects going on in Abuja initiated by the government..

No one said Nairobi beats Abuja... To me Abuja beats Nairobi... It'll beat Cape Town in the future..

TayserMahiri:
You guys really are blind. Y'know I've had these arguments for so long that am no longer in the mood for in depth replies. You actually think in 35 yrs Angola will be waiting for you? Just know that by 35 yrs Angola will be indistinguishable from Qatar or Dubai.

who is waiting for who?? Corruption might delay Angola's progress(Nigeria is starting to improve on corruption, we recently jailed 2 former governors)... Plus oil most likely won't be such a big thing in the future... Oil contributes around 50% to Angola's GDP while oil contributes 10% to Nigeria's GDP... Angola will have to drastically diversify their economy... unlike Nigeria who has only to diversify exports and government revenue..

In terms of other industries Nigeria is more developed...

With all the mega projects occurring around Nigeria... Let's say Angola becomes Dubai... Imagine what Nigeria would be by that time

Another question: Does Angola have any Eko Atlantic or Centenary city going on right now... If Angola starts now(creating luxurious/smart cities) , they'll still have to catch up to the progress made on those cities in Nigeria

TayserMahiri:
Na, I wasnt on about cities. I was talking of countries in general. Kinshasa's skyline is just like Lagos if not worse. Not impressive/oldish/grainy. I dont know if this is how the cities look like in real life but they certainly appear so in images. If its the images then the fact that the dwellers dont have good cameras tells you everything you need to know about the kind of life they live. Why you chose Kinshasa still escapes me because they got no impressive skyline. No one would confuse it for a wealth.
Angola may be more corrupt but still better than Naija to live in. I wouldn't consider Nigeria given a choice between Angola and Nigeria even with the language barrier and higher cost of living.

If you actually look behind that spectacular promenade and marine drive in Angola... you'll find ugly dilapidated buildings, and the roads are bad...
Angola and Nigeria's development standards aren't that far apart actually... In some areas Nigeria beats Angola... Just because you see a spectacular marine drive and promenade, you suddenly think Angola is Dubai/first world...

But i think i kinda understand what you mean, beautiful skyscrapers have a way of making one believe a society is developed... Sadly in the case of Angola, it's not developed...

Eko Atlantic will trump whatever Angola has... And by the time Eko Atlantic is fully finished(35 years) Nigeria might actually be second world and comparable to where China is today..

TayserMahiri:
Oil rich nations whose citizens have brains do have impressive skylines.
Its not any skyscrappers like in the Congo, the skyline itself tells a lot about a country and how it is run. Skylines signify wealth and power. I dont need more than a look at the skyline of Luanda and Lagos or Abuja to know which country is doing better.

are you kidding me So Kinshasa is better than Abuja because it has more skyscrappers?? Angola is more corrupt than Nigeria for your information..

https://www.ranker.com/list/the-most-corrupt-countries-in-the-world/info-lists

GERALD710:
The person CLEARLY stated that Dagonte is dominant everywhere except South Africa.Which is false because Dagonte has no investments in Kenya
.You repeat again that he has factories everywhere except South Africa.Where in Kenya,or Uganda,or Rwanda??Even in Ethiopia, that factory will be snatched from him.
In Kenya he will face high taxes(35% as compared to local factories that pay 30% and ones listed on the NSE pay 20%) and sabotage from the local elites.Keep dreaming!!

I clearly stated he was where he has factories... All of us know Dangote doesn't have a factory in all of Africa including Kenya...

NairobiWalker:
He has no factory in Kenya. LAWD, what kind of stuff do you Nigerians tell each other about yourselves? No wonder you all have these delusions of grandeur. In East Africa, Dangote's only invested in Tanzania and Ethiopia where his investments are still shaky with an uncertain future.

When did i say he had a factory in Kenya?? don't think anyone said that

rvp20182:
Okay let look at real manufacturing - Unilver Nigeria - when I look at figures - it struggling to sell goods worth 200M dollar annually in Nigeria! And that is FMCG company that would be dominant in food+personal care stuff.Innoson rebadging chinese cars is not manufacturing. if those 3 states - Lagos, Anambra & Aba manufacturing (not chinese goods re-badging) worth 40B dollars - they would be amongst the world centers of industrialization.

Kenya impressive manufacturing is struggling at 6-8B dollars and Nigeria which can't evens sing the AFCT somehow has huge industrial park in Aba that is better than South Africa & maybe Egypt!

You guys take your naija jokes so far.

Innoson manufactures and assembles.. Things like car engines, he has to import.. Other things like the wheels and steel cover of the car he manufactures in Nigeria.

Now let's look at Unilever a FMCG... you're probably using stats during the Nigerian recession.. Based of what i've seen Nestle is making above $250 million in sales in Nigeria, they also recorded high growth, this was after the recession
Many companies went down during the recession especially manufacturing..
Again you also have to look at market penetration.
Right now Unilever sales are growing and they're also expanding in Nigeria by building more factories
They just opened a factory last December..
You also have to take into account Nigeria's massive currency devaluation

Recently Nestle closed down their office in Nairobi for East Africa because of the bad market/sales. They restructured their company in that the office in South Africa will take care of Southern Africa and Eastern Africa

rvp20182:
Okay let look at real manufacturing - Unilver Nigeria - when I look at figures - it struggling to sell goods worth 200M dollar annually in Nigeria! And that is FMCG company that would be dominant in food+personal care stuff.Innoson rebadging chinese cars is not manufacturing. if those 3 states - Lagos, Anambra & Aba manufacturing (not chinese goods re-badging) worth 40B dollars - they would be amongst the world centers of industrialization.

Kenya impressive manufacturing is struggling at 6-8B dollars and Nigeria which can't evens sing the AFCT somehow has huge industrial park in Aba that is better than South Africa & maybe Egypt!

You guys take your naija jokes so far.

They're obviously other many states that manufacture... There's even manufacturing in Northern states..
It's spread out after the key states

Aba is not a state... it's a city..

But with upcoming players like Dangote, it seems the Nigerian economy is set to take a turn in the next decade. He's investing heavily in agro-processing... We're almost sufficient in rice production... He's also investing heavily in petrochemicals and fertilizers. And the biggest single-phase refinery in the world

rvp20182

rvp20182:
The problem is not the % - the problem is the total is inflated..so 8% of 400B - is around 40B - about the size of your oil industry--which the only industry we can verify because you sell your oil internationally.

Generally as rule of the thumb I would say any industry in kenya is more sophisticated than Nigeria. We definitely export lots of manufactured goods outside - we are second to Egypt in COMESA - and led in some sectors in US (AGOA).

Talking of manufacturing - outside few places in South Nigeria (LAGOS maybe) - what manufacturing really goes on there? Manufacturing companies that have gone to Nigeria are disappointed by the lack of middle class to purchase their goods.

Most manufacturing in Nigeria is done for local consumption rather than export, outside Lagos their is a manufacturing hub in south eastern Nigeria, specifically Anambra that's led by indigenous industrialists like Innoson(cars).. There's also Aba is south eastern Nigeria that's known for its shoe production... There's also an upcoming manufacturing hub in Ogun in south western Nigeria

rvp20182:
Interesting question - I would say when their data is taken at their highest & using real usd- exchange rate - their GDP drops to around 320B. https://nairametrics.com/naira-dollar-parallel-market-exchange-rate-daily/

320B - is still larger than South Africa & Egypt (with 100M arabs) - which clearly tells you that GDP is still over-estimated.

Now,Nigeria is basically an oil economy - the rest of economy basically collapsed in 1970s thanks to oil & mega corruption & really bad governance -So the nearest model you can find in Africa is better managed Algeria - Angola is a newbie!

If you go by Algeria - that around 160B dollars of GDP ( they sell about the same oil as nigeria +- 1.5-2M barrells) daily - Algeria export goods worth 80B dollars - and import around 50B dollars. Nigeria is doing something close to 50B - for exports - and 30B for imports - so on that account alone it's fairing worse than Algeria.

Algeria has around 40M people. Nigeria has 190B (real population is probably 150M). We also know using kenya & Ethiopia that population or land size doesn't matter - what matters is production.

Nigeria claims their agriculture (yams,cassava, millet, sorghum) is as good as Brazil (25% of 400B GDP is huge)- which is ridiculous - we know it's not even at South Africa level. The Nigerian agricultural ministry cannot count anything - so obviously all the so called agriculture GDP is fake - Nigeria are world leading importers of food (wheat +rice).

Typically the size of gov would give you clue of the size of GDP - because Gov is normally the biggest source of money for private sector, individual and main employer - looking at miniscule federal+state budget - there is nothing to write home about.

That leave us grappling for some decent consumption data - we know Nigeria has very little manufacturing (if they were big in Nigeria - you could have heard of them - like you do hear about their banks) - so majority of Nigeria consumed goods are imported - and yet that import bill is now less than 30B dollars! - I think around 25B dollars compared to Kenya 18-20B dollars!

If you check the tonnage - of goods arriving in their ports [ which is where most of consumer goods would arrive] - it around 1.6M TEUS - against Kenya's 1.1M TEUS - economy size of South Africa or Egypt - you're talking 4M plus TEUS if I am not wrong. Therefore this country that has very little manufacturing going on - it has no agricultural value chain like kenya that would support food processing - it yams & cassave direct to the mouth -- and manufacturing going on you can get figures from their breweries, coca-cola & such few multinationals - who have all been disappointed when they ventured in Nigeria to discover there wasn't any middle class to sell to.

Nigeria inflate their GDP contribution from stuff like ICT - mobile telephony/nollywood - when you can just manually add the revenues from MTN Nigeria & few others - and arrive at figures - about 3-4B dollars. They apply the same vodoo they use in agriculture to declare these sectors such money spinners .Their cement consumption & production the last few yrs was impressive - post Dangote (new phenomenon) arrival in 2000s - but now its down to 18M metric tonnes per annum - just about 3 times kenya. The rest of sectors are about kenya size or slightly higher - including their banking & intermediation etc etc.

Anyway give and take - I would say the very highest their GDP is around 150B (Algeria) - or at best 3 times Kenya GDP (250B) - which is unlikely! The given is around 50B dollars from oil production. The rest is speculation!

Anyway I am going to give a ballpark estimate of 200B dollars.

Manufacturing contributes about 8% to the Nigerian GDP roughly the same as Kenya's

Kenyanna:
slowpoke, I am an objective observer, I am not relying emotions like you, I have been to both countries your population ratio to infrastructure is not comparable to Kenya. I am not going to waste time here arguing with a ultranationalist naija like you who cannot reason. the supreme court of Kenya is totally indepent they nullyfied the elections on minor technicalities just to make a statement, Raila Odinga the opposition leader is now working with the govt, you sound like stupid slowpoke with 0% understanding of Kenya. niaja supreme court can never dare such a thing. Do you event have a supreme court worth mentioning?

The supreme court can dare to do such.. We almost impeached Buhari

Jay254:
Check this by Eric Omondi. HOW TO DO A NIGERIAN MOVIE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-g1TQ0J9Y50


Btw Eric has performed in Nigera

i can't stop laughing

Especially the part they used juju to turn the man into chicken

But Kenyans suck at the Nigerian accent