₦airaland Forum

Posted by: Obiagu1

@ OnlyTruth, don't mind him. The only reason the Ijaws have avoided conflict with the Igbo is that they will lose. Despite the fact that many of them loath the Igbos, they can't muster the courage to engage them.
It'll be suicidal as the Igbo will find a reason to push their way to the ocean by force and link up with Igbo outposts of Bonny and Opobo.

I seriously await such a time as this irritation may have to be settled one day if peaceful coexistence is not possible.

LOL. I've tried to engage them on this site before, but they simply slipped away like eels. It is okay not to engage Igbo, but they should stop insulting us for being at peace with them. They would not like a hostile neighbor in Igboland 'cos a lot of our people are waiting for a slight reason to avenge their treachery.
For now, they have nothing to worry about, BUT, they should rein in folks like nasoeb because these types will attract the swarm of angry Igbo bees one day. Nuff said.

@nasoeb

I reject your lame attempt to divide the Igbo and gain the upper hand here. I understand that you belief we are fools for being at peace with our neighbors, but I would still advise you to avoid altercations with Ndigbo anywhere in Nigeria. If what you boasted about in Bonny (which I believe is a ranting of a desperate and frustrated person ) checks out, then, just know that a day would come when you attract the attention of the Igbo nation, and believe me you won't live to tell this story again.

Some of you think we are fools because some of us (I don't think that majority of us have though   )forgave your role in Biafra. You boast of your magical powers, but you forget that we are Africans too just like you!  Do you think you possess the exclusive power to vanish into thin air? Even young Igbo boys (yes "nwa boys" in Lagos possess such powers.  

But let me ask you, do you really believe that Ijaw would defeat Igbo in a REAL war? If you believe that, then, keep provoking a reaction; but be ready to go back to whereever your fathers came from.  

I hope you are not mistaking the advantage you gained temporarily through treachery against Biafra for superiority in war because my friend that would be truly delusional.

@ndu_chucks,

The exchanges between groups in southern Nigeria only proves that when (not if) Nigeria divides, the groups would be ready. Everybody would know his place. So, that division is chiseled in titanium.  

@udezue

You are correct about the fact that Ijaw lacks land. I said the same thing sometime ago about sea encroachment and Ijaw land.
They are going about the issue the wrong way because I don't see them bullying any tribe in that N.delta area. Even the Ogoni are distancing from them and warning them not to include them in their so called Niger Delta Republic.
When you antagonize all your neighbors over things you can have with good attitude, you won't survive.

I read somewhere on Nairaland that Igbos and Ijaws intermarry a lot. Infact they do so more that any other two groups in southern Nigeria. So, that may save Ijaw one day when they run out of land. But if they continue with antagonism, others would not sympathize with them on the day of evil.

If I were an Ijaw man or woman, I would avoid any verbal altercations with any Igbo because it doesn't make any sense.
By divine design, we are neighbors and share words. "Ama" is thorough Igbo. It means compound or family compound entrance (Anambra Igbo). So, no need to quarrel over a word we share. All you need to do is look at the map and observe the two tribal zones -Igboland and Ijaw lands and you would stop arguing. One side is clearly land, while the other is mash or creek lands. One has serious road networks while the other barely has any. Methinks it reflects the culture and attitude of each tribe towards the issue of land. I suspect that Ijaw see land as a temporary thing, hence they develop it less. Ijaw are migrant fishermen. Igbo are farmers. Igbo see land as a permanent thing, so they develop it more. IMHO.
But, I think that this thread is about Ijaw and Bini; so I would also advise my Igbo brothers to steer clear here.

Posted by: nateevs

The problem is I am not a northerner. . . Once again, you have assumed that by not accepting your points, I am a northerner and your venom must rain on me. . . . and that exactly my friend is what LogicPower is trying to put forward to you. You cannot show open hatred towards a race or tribe whilst trying to educate the public about the wrong your people have suffered. People will not listen to you.

I am always against restriction of free speech.

[b]"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. " [/b]Voltaire

In fact I believe that people should be totally free to vent. I think you are really missing something very important about this thread, unless you are not able to see it.
I oppose the iconization of Murtala Muhammad on principle; and the principle is that genocide is bad for humanity.
I will opposed genocide even against groups I hate most.

For example, when the leader of Boko Haram Muhammed Yusuf was gunned down by the Nigerian security forces, I was among the first Nairalanders to oppose and condemn it; and BTW I hate Boko Haram with a venom you can never understand.  Nevertheless, he deserved due process of law as a citizen of Nigeria. He got none.

That is part of the point of this thread. Murtala Muhammad was a genocidist. He killed people simply because they were not his own tribe, and they did not have access to legal process. They were not armed when they were gunned down. They were simply lined up (men and boys as young as 6 years old) and shot.

Such a person should not grace the currency of any decent nation; or its international gateway.

So, even if "people will not listen", take your stand and move on. They don't have to listen. It is not necessary. 

Posted by: ndu_chucks

I agree with the above statement. In this case however, we are talking about a war wherein, the biafran soldiers have been surrounded and a blockade was in effect. My disappointment with the biafran commanders and their supreme commander was based on their willingness to sacrifice so many of my brothers and sisters even when they knew the war has been lost. These commanders ended up fleeing the front, shamefully. I will never forgive them for this act.

Mr man did you even pass WAEC?
The question is, SHOULD MURTALA'S FACE BE ON THE NAIRA, AND HIS NAME ON THE INTERNATIONAL GATEWAY OF NIGERIA?

A simple Yes or No would do. Thank you.
Enough of this your madrassa logic biko.

I'm ROTFL @ekt_bear, Ileke-Idi and dayokanu.
Guys, please chill. It ain't that bad. lmao.

. . .jumping fence and running east.  

Posted by: ndu_chucks

Now lets see how hypocritical you are not. Admit that biafra commanders and their supreme commander caused the deaths of more Igbo women and children by their criminal act of not surrendering when they were checkmated, than Murtala or any other soldier! olodo I'll bet my last naira that you do not have the guts to make this admission.

Okay my friend lets play a little game of logic to determine your basic level of intelligence and comprehension.

Judge A -one of the federal high court Judges in Nigeria - was elevated to a position in the Supreme court, to become a Supreme court judge. In fact he would succeed the retiring Chief Justice of the Federation.
People started to complain that Judge A is a known thief and a very corrupt man.
Intelligent opinions started flying either in support or against.

In walks one "smart dude" who then says, "Well Judge F is more corrupt ". 

That, my friend, is the most stoopid argument anyone can make on the subject.
No wonder why you folks find it hard to pass JAMB (according to my Ijaw friend  htajz) 

Posted by: jason123

[b]Muritala does not deserve to be there. [/b]I have always maintained that (this is not the first thread of its kind).

^^
Then, you should simply say so and move on.
There are a lot of emotional folks here and I can understand because the topic is painful.

@ jason123

Thanks for derailing the thread with completely unrelated post.
BTW what are the names of the Biafran commanders who committed those crimes, and show me which public properties are named after them?
I don't know why you people keep trying to change the topic. Shame on you.

Please answer the question. Is Murtala Muhammed deserving of iconization in Nigeria or not?
Why should his face grace national currency, which are used in the same areas where he fell tens of thousands of innocent men and children?
Assume for a second that you are from ANIOMA and that your family was affected.

I don't know why you folks refuse to identify with other people's mass murder in Nigeria, with a false belief that it can never happen to you.
REPENT or you will have a future Murtala commit mass murder in your town. 

Posted by: htajz

this must be the most silly post on nairaland and am not suprised its coming from a northerner since you people are known to lack basic human intelligence and understanding. btw this is about should murtala mohammed be immortalized or not  and not about biafran soldiers ,[size=14pt]na so una dey take fail jamb[/size].

Ma broda no kill me o.

Posted by: ndu_chucks

You sound like a dullard. The point I am making is that your outrage is misplaced. biafran soldiers killed more biafrans than the federal troops. Their cowardice act of not surrendering and using our people as bait is worse than genocide. They killed thousands of Ndigbo women and children.

So in your book, putting up a stiff resistance and refusing to surrender is a mark of cowardice abi?
What kain school you go sef? Abi na madrassa?

As the civil-war commenced, Murtala Muhammed entered the war in the Midwest campaign where he robbed the Central Bank in Benin, and began his litany of war crimes. Federal forces under his command unleashed a massacre of Igbos in Benin city and environs, however Asaba became the legendary centre were Murtala Muhammed set a record of war crimes. In a rain of blood, tens of thousands of innocent youths, some of them just 6 years old were lined up on the streets of Asaba and executed in cold blood on the direct orders of Murtala Muhammed. The Asaba massacre was the first of its kind in Africa and remains one of the bloodiest to date in the history of the African continent. As a further testimony to the bloodlust and depravity demonstrated by Murtala Muhammed and his forces, few kilometres away in Onitsha, another barbaric massacre was unleashed in the Apostolic Church where over 300 civilians, devout Christians including women and children who had stayed back and continued in their prayers after the fall of Onitsha were brutally murdered in cold blood.

http://asaba.com/?p=352


And this is the Nigerian icon.
An icon of genocide.

Posted by: ndu_chucks

@Onlytruth, you are doing a disservice to Ndigbo by opening this thread. More young people will know how biafran commanders killed/murdered their relatives. Quite sad. Let sleeping dogs lie, olodo.

I never thought you could ever be reformed from a die hard core genocidist to a modern citizen. Quite sad.
But, please stop trying to pretend that you know anything about Nigeria's future, cos frankly bro you have no clue!
Mutum banza.

@jason123

Please try to show me where entire men in villages were lined up and executed in that Mid-West incursion by Biafran soldiers.
But again like I keep saying, none of the other REAL genociders in Nigeria -Adekunle, Shuwa et al has his name on the international airport or the Naira.
None of the Biafran actors even have streets named after them.
So, please don't derail the thread.

Posted by: LogicPower

Here's my opinion as to why -- in my earlier post on this thread:

" -- if Murtala had not subsequently become a head of state; if he had not shown such a great vision; if his government had not demonstrated such a purposeful, responsible and committed leadership that earned him so much acclaim in Nigeria and across the African continent, if all these had not been the case, the country's biggest airport would not have been named after him, talk less of 'seeing his face' on any of our currency notes. --

And it can even be argued that the extraordinarily shocking corollary effect of assassinating a serving head of the government of a country is in itself capable of garnering huge, widespread, non-partisan national sympathy for the assassinated leader; to some extent, that too could have contributed to celebrating Murtala as a national hero."

I see you side-stepped my comment to repeat yours. Well, I repeat same response:

The bolded is the only concrete point in your post and can be argued as the main reason behind Murtala's iconization. BUT that tells you a lot about Nigeria!
So, because he died in a coup- the same coup that he participated in severally, one of which led to the death of a sitting head of state (Ironsi)- suddenly we develop amnesia about his bloody and treacherous past? Mind you that he died barely 6 years after the war. How could a nation forget so fast?
The only way to understand what happened, is to see it in light of the victor's worldview; but there lies the problem. Should Nigeria sweep Murtala's bloody and treasonous past under the carpet, just because he bamboozled gullible folks in his six months reign over Nigeria, which you admit could have still proven a flash in the pan in the long run had he not died the same way he lived? I don't even think he deserves a street named after him. IMHO.

However, what is clearly an egregious idea (as time would inevitably prove) is to iconize him - having his face on the nation's most used currency denomination, and his name on Nigeria's premier international gateway. It is offensive to sensibilities of decent humans, and insults the memories of innocent men and children (numbering thousands) massacred in Anioma and Onitsha under his command and watch.
As far as I know, none of the genociders of the civil war era are even mentioned much in public discourse. We talk about them in hushed tones. That one of them died in office should not catapult him to the position of a Nigerian icon, else it would send the wrong message that all you need to do is commit mass murder, and then die in a coup to become iconized in Nigeria.
If we repudiate such actions, it would chide current genociders in Nigeria and Africa and send a powerful warning to would-be ones who are planning something similar or worse.

@GenBuhari

I thought that you would have at least researched the history of the guy you are supporting before taking on his name.
When I have time I will post some info. But I don't want the thread to derail, afterall Buhari has no international airport named after him.
Your ignorance is part of why I say that Igbo leaders between 1966 and today have been very irresponsible. If they did their jobs well, believe me, we would not have folks celebrating those who destroy their futures.
Igbo say that "onye atu gburu nna ya adighi eji mpi atu anu mmanya" (a man whose father was killed by a water buffalo never drinks palm wine with a buffalo's horn).  

@alj_harem, quit playing games my friend.

@htajz, just ignore alj_harem

Posted by: ndu_chucks

@Onlytruth, while you are at it, please remember to blame the biafran commanders including their supreme commander, who killed thousands of innocent Nigerians including women and children because they kept the war going instead of surrendering - this was after it has become clear and obvious that they could not win the civil war.

Those biafran commanders eventually fled after commiting the said genocidal(since you are using the word carelessly) act againsts their own people.

My good friend ndu_chucks, you are too smart to make this type of pedestrian comment.
So, putting up a military resistance to an invading army is now tantamount to committing genocide against own people?

I am still waiting for you to show me where Biafran soldiers wiped out entire men and children. Murtala wiped out men in ANIOMA. He also committed same crimes in one incident in Onitsha.

The UN Conventions of war defined clearly what constitutes a genocide. Murtala was in the thick of that definition.
But, really, the point of this thread is not whether he committed genocide or not. The point is whether he (with such genocidal records) is qualified to remain a Nigerian icon, to represent in effect all that is best about Nigeria.
That is the point of this thread.
If genociders represent Nigeria's best, then, why hound die hard Biafrans around? They obviously can never share in that value.

Posted by: tEsLim

Hang OBJ first for the ODI genecoide

But how can you hang OBJ for the ODI genocide in 1999, when Murtala Muhammad killed FAR MORE in 1967 and laid the foundation for future Nigerian leaders to kill with impunity?
You see that is the problem.
Nigerians don't want to remember history, but they keep expecting different future. Beats all forms of logic. 

The most important thing about this thread is the opinions of people here. Online polls can be rigged, but I'm happy to read opinions.

BTW those who are trying their best to derail this thread won't succeed.  

From the opinions of people here, I really guess that the poll is likely something like this:

THOSE IN FAVOR (Yes) - 30%
THOSE NOT IN FAVOR (No) -70%

You can read whatever you want into it.  

I have to say that I am more interested in what people are saying in their comments, than what the poll numbers are saying because I also think that determined Biafrans would also vote NO.
So, for me, people's comments is the true poll. If you want to vet this poll, count comments and take percentages.
I didn't go to school for nothing.

Posted by: afam4eva

The poll has been rigged. Some moments ago there were just about 50 voters with those that supported the motion leading by 64%. All of a suddent we have 100 votes with the table turning. Come and see Nairaland wonder.

Of course I suspect it was rigged, because 100 is a round number and has stayed so for some time. Shows that someone is busy playing games.
Early in this thread Seun came here to try to revise history, telling us of Murtala saving a couple of Igbo officers. He forgot that the same Murtala killed more Igbo officers than he saved, and was almost a lose cannon throughout the crisis of 1966 till he eventually overthrew Gowon in 1975.
When we have "elites" in Nigeria like Seun, it truly bogs the mind why we complain about anything in Nigeria.

Posted by: GenBuhari

As a Biafran child, I voted no in the poll.

We need to remember Biafra but move on.

I do not know what he did during the war, but if we go by that criteria not many past leader would be eligible to make it onto our bank notes.

Muritala Mohammed is dead, civil war is over, we need to start looking to future now.

Bros, let me assume for a second that you are truly "a Biafran child"; do you know that your icon "General Buhari" actively participated in the genocide of your own people? He was infact one of the most enthusiastic participants.
I don't blame you for your ignorance bro. I blame Igbo leaders (and your parents).

BTW here is one of the supporters of General Buhari in 2011:

Posted by: Abu-Maryam

still waiting for Biafra part two!!! all this mouth you no go hear am again,

I'm really glad that this thread made it to the front page. The spread of the poll is also proving my hypothesis.
This dialogue is very important because a lot of Nigerians don't even know what Nigeria is all about. They come here complaining about Boko Haram and other massacres in Nigeria, keep hoping for a bright future but are inherent genociders by nature.
How can a fish complain of water? hehehe!

Posted by: Jimmy Boy

I thought Biafra soldiers were stopped at Ore, far beyond Ndigbo's territory. I don't think Ojukwu and his soldies were hugging people dwelling at Irrua,Ekpoma, Ora, Benin on the way to Ore. So I don't understand why the author of this topic is trying to make Ojukwu an Hero and send Muritala to the Hague post-humously.

At least there is no historical evidence that they were wiping out entire villages and executing all the men in the towns.
I would like to see such evidence first. But then again I don't think that is the main point, and I won't teach you basic comprehension.

^^BTW ezeagu, is that Eko-Ile in your N20? LOL.

@ezeagu. LOL @ your own version of N20 note! hehehe!

Posted by: loco4love

They should rename the Lagos International Airport : Fela Anikulapo Kuti International Airport becos Fela was known for repping Lagos and its cool mein. LOL

You know, that is not a bad idea at all. I think that Fela (despite his debaucherous lifestyle) or Gani Fawehimi (the people's lawyer) would be far better than Murtala Muhammad. They both stood for the masses of Nigerians, some of whom were gunned down by the likes of Murtala Muhammad in Anioma and Onitsha. Even Wole Soyinka too. These In My Own Book (IMOB) were/are the true Nigerian icons.

They depict the spirit worthy of celebration about Nigeria -the spirit of being your brother's keeper -partners in the struggle for a just Nigeria.

Posted by: udezue

@OnlyTruth, problem is that Ndi-Igbo and Easterners are a bit too forgiving and also forgetful of their history? U think if were the Jews that Adekunle, Gowon, Danjuma and the men responsible for Asaba massacre will be safe and free in Nigeria? They would have sent out assassins to have these men killed quietly one by one. Atleast that would be some form of justice for the victims.[/b]

I hear you my brother. One of the biggest truth about the whole thing is that contemporary Igbo leaders  (1966 - today) are really very irresponsible; save very few of them. As sad as that is to say, it is the truth. They are there now shouting Igbo presidency, blah blah, but they can't even account for anything concerning our past in Nigeria.
They send these subtle but powerful messages to non-Igbos that we are easy picks. Any Igbo who forgets our past in Nigeria should never be entrusted with our future.
As a matter of necessity, we should test ALL aspiring political office holders in Igboland on the history of Ndigbo. Our job as the masses is to organize and ensure that before anyone gets our vote, he/she must answer questions about 1966- to date, because our lives changed for ever from 1966. The other time, I saw Prof Nwabueze in the same "presidential advisory team" with the butcher of Ibadan (T.Yakubu Danjuma), and I was ashamed for him. I (as a pedestrian Igbo) would not sit in the same room as Danjuma because of his role in the massacre of innocents in Enugu/Nsukka axis.

So, you have a point, but it is for another thread. I believe that we will get there one day.
BTW God has been doing a marvelous job of visiting war, death and plague upon the tribes and groups which participated in drinking Igbo blood in the period of 1966- 70. So, it is possible that it is not God's time yet for some of them.

Posted by: LogicPower

And it can even be argued that the extraordinarily shocking corollary effect of assassinating a serving head of the government of a country is in itself capable of garnering huge, widespread, non-partisan national sympathy for the assassinated leader; to some extent, that too could have contributed to celebrating Murtala as a national hero.

Thus IMH, so long as nothing new happens that could drastically change all or some of the above possible reasons for lionizing Murtala, so long would he remain a national hero, and so long would his name and 'face' continue to be so immortalized.

The bolded is the only concrete point in your post and can be argued as the main reason behind Murtala's iconization. BUT that tells you a lot about Nigeria!
So, because he died in a coup- the same coup that he participated in severally, one of which led to the death of a sitting head of state (Ironsi)- suddenly we develop amnesia about his bloody and treacherous past? Mind you that he died barely 6 years after the war. How could a nation forget so fast? 
The only way to understand what happened, is to see it in light of the victor's worldview; but there lies the problem. Should Nigeria sweep Murtala's bloody and treasonous past under the carpet, just because he bamboozled gullible folks in his six months reign over Nigeria, which you admit could have still proven a flash in the pan in the long run had he not died the same way he lived? I don't even think he deserves a street named after him. IMHO.

However, what is clearly an egregious idea (as time would inevitably prove) is to iconize him - having his face on the nation's most used currency denomination, and his name on Nigeria's premier international gateway. It is offensive to sensibilities of decent humans, and insults the memories of innocent men and children (numbering thousands) massacred in Anioma and Onitsha under his command and watch.
As far as I know, none of the genociders of the civil war era are even mentioned much in public discourse. We talk about them in hushed tones. That one of them died in office should not catapult him to the position of a Nigerian icon, else it would send the wrong message that all you need to do is commit mass murder, and then die in a coup to become iconized in Nigeria.
If we repudiate such actions, it would chide current genociders in Nigeria and Africa and send a powerful warning to would-be ones who are planning something similar or worse.

Posted by: alj_harem

Onlytruth

I agree with you on this one, but if it is done,

1.) would massob stop existing

2.) would igbo stop putting eze ndigbo in every state

3.) would they stop complaining about marginalization

4.) Would they stop screaming biafra at our face (very important)

if so then I completely agree

If you support this measure, then good. Go and tell your brother ndu_chucks to support it.
If you accept that genocide is wrong, why attach a condition to it? Nigerian constitution guarantees freedom of speech; so you cannot force people to drop their views on Biafra. Personally, I believe that by Nigeria condemning and repudiating genocide and taking some serious steps to change course, some of those Biafran agitators may be wooed over to the idea of one Nigeria. But if this is not done, then you have already lost them.