₦airaland Forum

^^^The concept of God / the character called God is the fraud here.

Emusan: Is this all what you can say?

What can you say to these?
I'm a native of Oke-agbe Akoko in Ondo state of Nigeria, you can ask any atheist in Nigeria to find out these story for you especially residing in south west.

There was a road that link my village to another village called OYIN. When they are about to construct this road a rock fall along the route where the road suppose to passed. The white man that constructing the road said "if the rock is being blasted the whole of this village would be wipe out with water because the evil spirit inside it is a spirit of water. In this village we don't have big river, or close to sea or ocean even about 3km diameter no river near us. Up till now that particular point is full of pot holes, if you like bring the whole asphat in this world and place it there in the next two-three weeks it will spoil again.

Another one, in 1995 something great happened also in my village along that road I was talking about just like 1-2km away from that very point there was a rock beside the road, (not along the route but a little bit close to the road) at that very point accident usually occur almost every week. Traditional rulers, christians, muslims are complaining and it was revealed that there was an evil spirit inside the rock but who will confront it, Nobody? Churches, muslims they begin to pray, the tradition people they do their own too. 1995 was the year that God save us from that evil spirit, what happened? Around 4:00pm it seems rain wants to fall, breaze up & down and the rain begins to wet the ground not up to ten minutes a powerful thunder struck and behold it hit the rock and pieces it. I couldn't go there but the people that went there says there was splashing of bloods on those broken stones. But there was a place you can stand and you will see the path that the thunder created anything along that path was removed being trees or stones it looks as if bulldozer worked there. That is how accident cease from that road.

Another one happened also at the main market there was a big three in that market though it's not the only tree there. It was revealed to some churches that this particular tree is bewitched it was thunder that uprooted this same tree. Surprisingly, under the tree we (I saw it with my naked eyes) saw pot, stove, spoons, bloods e.t.c because the tree has hole inside and the hole did not link to outside.

I was told about stories of thunder in that village too.

All these happened in the day time not overnight so don't think maybe it is people's handiwork and nobody knows that rain with thunder will occur that day.

I want your say because you said nothing like evil spirit & God.

To begin with, i must tell you that your ignorance is not an excuse for the existence of God.

I quite agree that there are many phenomenons in Africa that dont have scientific explanation YET, due to shortage of evolutionary scientists in Africa. Geysers that occurs in northern hemisphere also have many spiritual explanations given by the natives, until scientists told us what causes those phenomenons.

I am certain that once God is off our community and evolutionary scientists become many, we will start to understand our land much more.

I am also certain that your explanation of spirits is just as a result of ancient myths.

Ask yourself, do you sound reasonable with such explanations? No, you dont

striktlymi: Hmmm...okay! okay!!...now you are forcing me to go through the OP! I will do that soon and give you a feedback!

Anyways, I am of the opinion that the point I demonstrated won't be completely irrelevant after I read the OP.

#Wanna bet?

so you havent read the OP and you continue to comment??

duh!! you are quite disappointing!! I bet that your points remain absolutely irrelevant.!!

striktlymi: There is a need for you to substantiate the above. How is my post a lie?

Because your analogy is not germane to the main point

striktlymi: The above failed to demonstrate that the fallacious argument I put up there is a baseless lie. If you claim that your accusations stems from the religious books then one would be tempted to ask you, how many religions (or sects) do we have and how many of such religious books have you read?

#Don't give me the two major religion thingy as your answer o.

I attacked the Christian concept of God as it is obvious in the OP. The Muslim concept of God is also affected since their qoran is a photocopy of the Old Testament with modifications.

I was never one of those who think that animals dont have emotions since i understand that our emotions are a result of our adrenaline, and other nervous reactions. Animals too have nerves and so are emotional and conscious except that level of consciousness is determined by how much brain cell each species has and how much complex it is. Sapiens have the most complex brain network and so are most conscious.

Other behaviors seem in Elephants and other animals have also been documented. Elephants are claimed to perform some form of ritual for their dead.

JeSoul: I'm trying to find a delicate way of saying this without sounding rude to you sir, but this is absurd, to be honest.

So we should discount millions of testimonies and take your word that those people do not know what they themselves experienced? I put to you the same question to plaetton, how do you know whether or not Rick Warren's son actually practiced anything that was written/taught in the PDL? how do you know this to declare that the philosophy failed him?

You obviously still havent grasp my point here. I made a clear point that what "those people" think is the work of God is simply them, being motivated to find purpose to their purposeless life. IF A GOD MADE LIFE, WHY THEN IS IT HARD TO FIND PURPOSE TO IT?? All works of intelligence immediately screams their purposes, never life. This proves that life is not the work of intelligence.

@bold: You can never conceive the idea that the son have never read, heard, learned about his father's book. Even me did a course on Purpose Driven Life while i was a christian. The book was a world wide best seller, there is no way the son couldnt have read, heard or learned about the book or its content.

Now, If the son actually read or learned about the book but still refuse to practice anything written in the book, as it is obviously since he is dead by suicide now, the next question is why? Why did he not practice what was written? Did he find them ridiculous? Where they not enough for him? well, i will stop there because apparently, they were not enough for him.
If God indeed exist, then he would not leave people when they need him the most, if God didnt leave the son, he wouldnt commit suicide.

JeSoul: You guys sound desperate when you make these kinds of comments. Maybe its my understanding that is flawed, but what I'm reading from you both is a true head-scratcher.

http://teenchallengeusa.com/. Check it out. Its a faith-based organization I've worked with in the past that has rescued millions of challenged folk from all ages & walks of life. They have been nationally & internationally recognized by non-religious leaders.

So you must understand my irritation at such an arrogant, ill-informed and fact-devoid comment such as the one you made "God and his worshipers are useless to the challenged society".

I checked your link. It is simply another group trying to propagate this delusion of the idea of God to keep even more people in fear of God and hell.

They help teens fight addiction by giving them another addiction - God. They are only killing them, they are not helping them. They replace their addictions by another addiction among other things that they do.Such organizations are wolves in dog's skin. They cant really help people, they only aggravate cases that are already worst.

JeSoul: Wow. I think I understand you perfectly now. You think atheism is a silver bullet for all the troubles of the world. Roger that. Many of you guys count yourselves as better than others simply because you wear an atheist badge. Please re-read what you said here, and perhaps the incredible arrogance of such a comment will humble you.

Pls Pls Jesoul, i NEVER said atheism is the "silver bullet for all the troubles of the world", you conceived that yourself. I only implied that atheism is nothing but the truth. You religious always claim that no matter what you are going through, there is always one internal joy that you have which, as you claim, is the love of God. This i know to be a great delusion since i have been a christian before. The son also discovered it was a great lie because i could think of no other reason he would commit suicide if indeed, there was that deep joy in his psyche.

I would have brought him into reality, would have shown him what nature is, that only the fittest survive, that if he is to survive, then he must look beyond his limitations, forget that there is a God somewhere that could help him, take his life and live it to full potential. He would have found his fitness and would have survived. This is why i blame the idea of God for his death.

Not just him, a nine years old also killed himself for the same reason. He said if heaven is better, why live on earth then, he typed on his facebook page that "life is pathetic" before shooting himself in the head. He killed himself, leaving his parent in a state of great agony. Such is what your God do for people. So i repeat again, God and the religious are useless to the society.

JeSoul: God is everything to me. I will rather die than "do away with" my faith in Him. He makes me strong & infects me with strength & love. Belief in Him makes me a better human being. Belief in Him fills me with love for my neighbor and people all around the world.

If that^ offends the carnal sensibilities of pop-atheists, well, they can go hug a cactus, and spend that time in sober self-reflection as to why someone else' beliefs which makes them better people should bother you.

^^^and all this said with a very big smile

Am not offended.

I understand you perfectly. I also once thought that God was everything to me. I thought that he (or it) was my life and the reason i live. I thought i found reason and purpose in God, until i started studying nature. Study of nature freed me from such delusions.

I understand it is hard to do away with a lifelong held belief. But Jesoul, I aver with certainty that you can be a more better person when you do away with God. You can be more pragmatic and more proactive. You would understand the world around you better and you would feel a great rush of freedom.

After those experience, you would discover that there is nothing impossible for you, you would discover that your horizon is limitless.

All this will not come as a reward simply because you left God, they would come to you because they are natural and you just became natural and just got freed from a state of great delusion.

The world around you is only a delusion of the networks of your brain cells, how much more is the God you cannot see. Think about that.

brainpulse: I put it to you, that you are a fraud....

1. Why did you come to this world when you know you will still die and leave this world?
2. Why do you long for material things when you know you will leave them behind when you die?
3. Why did you choose to be a black man in Nigeria when you have all the choices in this world?

Your questions are pathetically dumb. I didnt choose to come to this world, i was born. I didnt choose to be black, i was born one and i need material things to survive and raise children, after which i will leave it for them to build on and leave for their children.

Some religious people can be willingly dumb

striktlymi: Striktlymi is known to be fraudulent.

Striktlymi believes in God.

Therefore God is fraudulent.

#Do you see the error in the argument above?

Lie.

Check the religious books. They are the ultimate fraud.

All my accusations against the idea of God are from the Spirit inspired Holy Word of God.

Your analogy is baseless!!!

plaetton: I know I use therm " soul" often. But for me, soul, spirit, radio frequencies, visible light, invisible ether, they all say the same thing to me.
All are energy vibrating in different frequencies.

soul is a term used by the religious. You bringing in soul into science would betray naturalism. I think you should find a more scientific word or just stick to electromagnetic wave. That would be more acceptable than soul stuff

achina boy: i think religions are frauds,but God? we are yet to confirm his aim

all religions are based on a God, therefore, God is the ultimate fraud!

alfaman2: Why are you allowing yourself to be bullied by christians?

I know such comments will come but either way, no harm done right?

TOPIC FULLY EDITED ON MULTIPLE REQUESTS!!

striktlymi: Thanks man!


How is ya gal doing?

#I am pretty sure you don't want me posting my thoughts on the OP.

all thoughts are welcome. I take it you feel a little intimidated because the OP is nothing but TRUE!!!

plaetton: Superconductivity is the hoy grail of science.

Super conductivity is a lot more than your definition.
A super-conducting source can send energy through infinite distances without wires, with loss of energy.

For example, a super-conducting energy source in the moon would beam same amount of energy to earth instantaneously beyond any barrier and without a single loss.

So far, it can only be achieved at very temperatures, yes.
That only means that we have a long way to go before we achieve room temperature superconductivity in a lab.

Well , when I study the way that brain generates and conducts electricity with no friction, no loss, That is a characteristic of super-conductivity.
Sentience, Self-awareness, cognitive abilities, is proof that the brain is not just electrons passing through wires.
It is much more complex, and only superconductivity can fully account for it's complexities.

as long as your ideas are natural without bringing the supernatural soul concept, i will take them under advisement.

plaetton: ^^^
To expand a bit on this,
What we call life is simply invisible, and am sure , a purer form of cosmic energy that flows through and energises our denser physical bodies. When that interface is blocked or cut off, the flow of energy ceases, life departs into the nether dimensions as free flowing energy, and the denser physical bodies breaks down back into molecular and atomic components.

And the process goes on for infinity as newer formations arise from time to time.
Life begets life.
Everything evolves

indeed you are sounding too mystical for comfort!

NL member: @bold, how can a god you believe to be non existent be fraudulent by the way?

Topic edited!!

striktlymi: Good afternoon bros,

Sorry I did not read the OP for a justifiable reason: How can someone who you believe does not exist be a fraudster?

for your sake, just for your sake, i have edited the topic

NL member: Great points, I particularly agree with the part about the garden of eden and the forbidden fruit, but OP your thread title is offensive to theists. It would have been better to give the title a less inflammatory heading like 'the problem of god's omniscience' or something else of that sort.

Christians might be too angry with you because of the way you insulted their god to take your thread serious or to see the message within it.

Will take that under advisement. But that is the message i want to pass. I think that the truth should be said no matter how it would be taken by people.

The Yorubas also say that the truth is bitter and that is true.

I think that religions and God are frauds.

plaetton: @both Reyginus and Turnstoner:



As for the brain being able to harmonise energy , yes. I believe, with great conviction, that the brain has super-conducting properties. If you know anything about superconductivity, you will agree that super-conductors have the ability to conduct and harmonise energy through space,dimensions and possibly time.
Therefore a superconducting substance would be a perfect bridge between our 3-dimensional reality and perhaps others.

Now, if the brain, as I am convinced, is a super conductor, the brain would be the interface between our physical reality and other cosmic realities.
The brain would serve , in this case, as the conduit for flow of energy to and fro other realities.

Superconductivity is the continuous flow of electron after electric source is terminated - continuous supply of electricity after the electric source is terminated and this can only be achieved at very low temperatures. How does this apply to the human brain??

The topic of mutual exclusion of omniscience and freewill is a topic that exposes many things about the nature of God.
This topic just didnt immediately mean that God does not exist if we have freewill, it also means that If God exist, then we dont have freewill. What we therefore call freewill is only a delusion because if Jack has two options - A and B, and if an omniscient being knows that Jack was going to choose B, then Jack MUST choose B, if not, the omniscient being is not omniscient anymore.
Jack, on the other hand would think that its his freewill to choose between A or B, but it has been decided long ago. Jack therefore has only the delusion of freewill.
This fact shows that if God exist, then man does not have a real freewill but a delusion of it. This therefore makes God a villain by making man believe that a delusion is reality. But isnt that what religion is all about? Religion is all about deception, and God is all about getting worshiped.

How exactly is God a fraudster? I will use two events in the bible to show how God or at least the idea of God has defrauded man.

1. The fall of man - According to Gen 3, God supposedly gave man the choice of eating or not eating from the tree of knowledge, out of which man ate and God got furious. In his furiousness, he punished man.
But if God is truly omniscient, then he must have known that man would eat from the tree of knowledge, why then did he get furious enough to punish man?? That is the problem here, the fraud.
God made Adam and Eve look stupid and God pretended as if he never knew they were going to eat from the tree and he punished them and sent them off Eden.

So, if God knew they were going to eat from the tree, why get furious again - this means he is a fraud by pretending he never knew.

But the religious will not agree with the above - this immediately suggest that God is not omniscient.

So it is either God is not omniscient or he is a fraudster, no other option is possible.

God defrauded man by making it seem as if it was man's decision to eat from the tree. This he did so that man would think he had disobeyed God and so owed God a lifetime of worship in return for his salvation that he offered us.

God inveigled the human race and made us think we are the villains when in fact he is the criminal. This is an act of fraudulent.

2. The betrayal of Judas - According to the Gospels, a man named Judas betrayed Jesus, he later committed suicide because he thought it was his own freewill at work.
But if God is truly omniscient, then he must have known that Judas would betray Jesus, but he pretended and played dumb.
The fraud here is this - Because God already knew that Judas would betray Jesus, since he is omniscient, and because someone must betray Jesus for God's dumb plan to work, then it is not Judas freewill to betray Jesus because it is either Judas betrayed Jesus or God is not omniscient anymore. Judas never understood this and after the act, he blamed his freewill and committed suicide.

God defrauded Judas of his life by deceiving him into thinking it was his freewill to betray Jesus when in fact he must for God's omniscience to remain valid.

This proves that if God exist, then we do not have freewill, all the evils in the world are just what God planned.

God is a fraud. He defrauded us into thinking we have freewill so we would think that all our mistakes are a result of our freewill and so feel like we owe him lifetime of worship in order to save us. For God, it is not about us, it is about him getting worshiped, this is why he defrauded us.

God is a fraud and we must do away with such a villain. Think and choose wisely

[quote author=@kenyattaMoore]Go and look in the mirror ,maybe you have changed into a monkey you just don't know it . [/quote]

Logicboy03:

pseudoscience

I would get back at you with pics now but i would be accused of copy and paste again. Pls just google it. I said so before.

I understand that the evolution of life is one area of intense contention. However, new evidences are arriving proving that abiogenesis - chemical evolution - life from non life - organic from inorganic is true. Scientist have been able to experimentally confirm that protocells can spontaneously form on montmorillonite clay. This totally destroys the existence of a soul making life possible.

Googling protocells and montmorillonite will help clear doubts

^^^It irritated me so much that i couldnt comment at first

especially this:

kambo: "God is a wicked God that committed Genocide" - favorite trump card for
painting God black,
But -- God also sent his only Son to die (is that wickedness?)

Pastor Olu T: You say i am in a state of delusion because i believed the bible, though you claimed to be wise and would only believe what you can see and prove, yet you could not prove to me how you came to be. You said you have done that countless times:/, maybe i missed your post then you should do again, for i know you can't do that in 100 years.

science have given the most ridiculous answers as to how man came to be, i also know you will be ashamed to tell me you are an act of randomness or your ancestors were apes.

I understand you know nothing about science from your post.

I therefore feel that my obligation is not to tell you or teach you anything but correct your misconceptions. So i would like you to first state everything you think you know about the evolution of man and evolution in general and i will explain to you better.

Evolution is directly observable in nature, creation is not. Keep that in mind as you write.

JeSoul: Aside that this is insensitive, a family just lost a member, the thing to do is not try and score cheap brownie points. Nevertheless, this quote of yours has serious K-leg.

Atheists such as yourself like to sound in our ears all day long that man is responsible for his own destiny, why in this case have you changed your stance? shouldn't the son have been responsible for his own life? why is this his father's fault? or the fault of his father's religion?

Meanwhile there are millions of Rick Warren followers - both christian & non-christian by the way - who swear that his book changed their lives. But of course, ignore all that and focus on only this. Myopia is already a certified symptom of neo-modern pop-atheists.

Cheerios my dear ooman.

You all seem not to understand me. I am not trying to blame the father here but only showing that everything he wrote down in his book has no real impact in reality. All the Christians who have testified to the wonders the man's book has wrought in their lives can now understand that it is not God who gives us meaning and satisfaction, but every individual must find satisfaction to life. In the case where satisfaction is not found, then suicide results.

I am only trying to say that God and his worshipers are useless to the challenged society. If an atheist like my self has spoken to the son, he would have taken his life in his hands and would have continued living despite his impairment.

God is harmful to us, we must do away with him. God makes us weak, he infects us with weakness. God is a parasite.

That is my point

Emusan: The man didn't say God does not exist if you read it with utmost mind. But because devil has looked for a way to snatch his soul he begins to see God as a wicked being. If God doesn't exist somebody like me won't say anything about Him. Science is real but claiming there is no God is wrong. By God's grace I have something to invent to the whole world soon but does that mean I must claim that God doesn't exist NO! Some scientist got it wrong when they are begin to reason abstractly. To the man I pray he will realise where he got it wrong and reconcille himself back to God.

You seem not to get it. Atheism is as a result of study of nature, not just some ancient ideas.

The more you study and understand nature, the more you realize that intelligence is never involved.

Nature itself speaks against god.