₦airaland Forum

OLAADEGBU: All you need to do is to compare what the Bible said about the shape of the earth 2-3000 years ago to what the "scientists" said then and what they have discovered now and see whether true science has not confirmed the Bible.

The bible is a copy of the ebla docs. stop praising the bible for crude knowledge of nature. praise the eblas

^^^exactly what I think of the religious and the idea of God. Both are frauds.
Now you want to prey on Hawkins, use his condition to lie to him and force your fraudulent God on him.

when will you learn. Hawkins knows better than to pray to a mute dumb God.

Pastor Olu T: Wow you were once a Christian, please i will definitely love to hear your story!

I simply discovered that there is no God in nature and genesis is a fraud.

Pastor Olu T: Wow this is interesting, just to do summary and you are just parambulating, i guess you don't know what you believe just going along with the flow!;(

I caught your trolling. I gave you a video, you didn't watch and you still expect me to take you seriously??

Pastor Olu T: kk, lets start over again, i believe in life after death cause the bible the bible teaches it and i have personal experiences to back it up.

What do you believe and what do you base it on?

how can you prove life after death hypothesis?

striktlymi: Good evening bros!
Finally I read the OP and it was as I expected . See my response below:

You were illogical for commenting before reading the OP. I never knew some people write first before thinking!

striktlymi: ^^^Really?? Now you have 'tickled' my interest.
That's not quite true! I don't see the conflict between God's omniscient and man's free will. The question is: what does it mean for God to be omniscient? The simple answer would be that God knows all things (both revealed and un-revealed knowledge). In other words, God's knowledge is infinite.

Prevarication.

In Isaiah, it was said that god knows all things before they happen. Isaiah 46v10 says Only i can tell you what is going to happen before they happen. Everything i plan will come to pass, for i do whatever i wish. In Revelation 17v17 it was said that god plans and control the affairs of man. It says that For god has put a plan into their minds, a plan that will carry out his purposes.... so now, it is plain that God has aleeady decided the course of event and so freewill remains a fraud.

striktlymi: Now, the fact that man has freedom to do what he wants does not undermine this infinite knowledge of God. Note that it is one thing for one's knowledge to be infinite and another for that individual to act based on that knowledge. The fact that God choose not to act despite this know-how, does not, in any way, suggest that there is a conflict between man's freewill and God's infinite knowledge.

Prevarication - God plans man's action according to the bible. God determines the course of action of man, knows what will happen next, which must happen if God is to remain omniscient and after each event, god lies to man and blames man's freewill. God understands much more than you do that man does not have freewill but still, he blames man for evil, then defrauded us into life time of worship.

striktlymi: The fact that we have freewill does not tell us anything about the existence or non-existence of God. As I have already demonstrated above, there is no conflict between man's free will and God's omniscient. Coming to your analogy, the fact that an Omniscient being knows the option Jack will go for does not undermine the ability of Jack to make a choice between those two options.

LIE-As i have shown again. Freewill and omniscience are mutually exclusive. For an omniscient being to remain omniscient, everything must happen according to his knowledge. There is no denying that omniscience destroys freewill and freewill destroys omniscience. God does not exist if we have freewill and if he exist, then he is a fraud for making man think his mistakes are results of freewill.

BIG LIE @ bold.

No matter how much Jack dallied he must still go for the option the omniscient one knows or the omniscient one becomes invalid. Why do you have to deny the obvious. Am not surprised though, its typical of the religious.

striktlymi: A choice is what it is simply because we have the right to make our own decision when faced with a number of possibilities. Jack for instance is faced with two possibilities: either option A or option B. If he goes for option A as against going for option B without anyone 'arm-twisting' the poor fellow to making that choice then it follows that Jack has made a decision based on his free will or better still, Jack has made a choice.

Jack would make such decision thinking it was based on his freewill. But the omniscient one already knows what Jack would choose and Jack MUST choose that for the omniscient one to remain valid. Freewill is therefore only a delusion.

striktlymi: Now your argument is that since God knows which option he would go for then Jack did not make a choice but was forced to select the option he chose. This really is not the case here. Jack actually made a choice without being influenced and the fact that God knows this choice does not mean that Jack's freedom was thrashed.

That is exactly the fraud here. Jack only have an illusion of freewill to choose but he must choose what the omniscient one already knows for his omniscience to remain valid.

striktlymi: This definitely is not correct! Being an omniscient God does not mean that God makes decisions for us, it only means that the decision we make freely is already known to him. Knowing a decision is different from making the decision! God does not make the decision, his fault (if you consider it a fault) is that he knows the decision before it is made.

According to the bible, Isa. and Rev. i quoted, god plans man's course of action. Freewill is nullified.

You seem not to understand the main point here. It is that since God already know that decision BEFORE it was made as you say, then for his omniscience to remain valid, the decision he knows MUST be the one taken, if not, his omniscience is invalid and that is the fraud here.

striktlymi: ThisI have demonstrated why the above is incorrect!
I believe the above accusation is false and I have demonstrated why already.

Your demonstrations are invalid as i have shown.

striktlymi: ThisThe above are accusations you are yet to substantiate!

I promise you a new thread on that soon.

striktlymi: Okay na! Let's go there...
Well, God would be guilty of fraud if you were able to demonstrate that the freedom of choice was impaired by God in any way. What you succeeded in showing is that God knew that man would fall and did nothing to change it...if God had done something to change that, then he would have been guilty of committing fraud because then, it would have been glaring that man is without free will.

LIE+PREVARICATION

You obviously decided to ignore the main point. The points are 1- God knew they were gping to eat yet pretended he never knew and punished them. 2- Because God knew they were going to eat, then they must eat for him to remain omniscient. Their freewill is only an illusion. A fraud to make them think they owed him worship which worked anyway, which is why you continue to worship God.

striktlymi: That is another accusation you are yet to substantiate! We can't blame God for the decision Adam and Eve made! The decision was not influenced, hence their guilt in the matter. This reminds me of people who commit all manner of atrocities only to blame the devil for the wrong they did, instead of taken responsibility for their actions.

No one is talking about the devil here. When will you stop this prevarication and face the main point.

The decision to eat is not theirs. It is an action they must perform for god's dumb plan to work. And because god already knew they would eat BEFORE they ate, then they must eat for god to remain omniscient. Am not blaming god here, am accusing him of fraud, am calling him a fraud because that is what god or at least the idea of god is.

striktlymi: Remind me again where feigning ignorance of something translates to a fraudulent act?

God didnt just feign ignorance, he also punished them and inveigled them into worshipping him by making them think they owed him. God is a criminal and a fraud.

striktlymi: ThisNope! I don't agree because you only made accusations you are yet to corroborate with concrete evidence.
You can only demonstrate the bold by proving that a conflict exists between an omniscient God and the free will of man. I have shown that this imaginary conflict only exists in your head

I have demonstrated that multiple times now. Its time you stop prevaricating and face the obvious truth.

striktlymi: ThisThe above was man's decision! Refer to my responses above!
Wrong!!!

Your responses are wrong, lies and prevarications

striktlymi: ThisAnother unsubstantiated accusations!

I have substantiated my claims multiple tines.

striktlymi: The above still does not show that Judas' decisions were made by God. Of-course he knew that Judas would betray Christ and later hang himself but this does not mean that he made the decisions for Judas. For instance, if I know that some time in the future, you are going to become a billionaire by having your own company and based on this knowledge, I choose to invest in that your company without influencing your investment decision, does this mean that I made your decisions for you?

STOP THIS PREVARICATION.

Judas did not have any option but to betray jesus. Failure to do that would mean God is not omniscient anymore. Dont you know what omniscience mean and are you denying the bible verses i quoted. Dang, you are annoying.

striktlymi: Yet again, you make accusations you are yet to substantiate. I have demonstrated that there is no conflict between the decisions we make and God's omniscient. Judas was not forced to betray Christ; he chose to do it. You can say God only decided to make good a bad situation. Remember that Peter also betrayed Jesus but unlike Judas, he decided to repent of his sins.

Judas must betray him or god would lose his omniscience. That is the simple point you have been running away from all this while.

Here you betray yourself. Did you willingly forget that jesus prayed for peter and so god changed the course of events? STOP YOUR LIES MAN.

striktlymi: Accusations without substance!

Refer to my earlier thoughts on the matter.

Thanks man!

I have substantiated all my claims with facts, its time you stopped your prevarications.

What are you thanking me for?

achina boy: emm, all religions are based on so called god,not on the creator of this globe because i believe he exist,the only problem is that we misquote his involvement,i guess

all you religious people just find one excuse or the other to protect this god of yours. One fact remains that no god exist anywhere

Emusan: Allow my ignorance to be controlling me I like it that way.

Shortage of scientists in africa is the one pushing white man to africa and begin to buy africa culture (statute) millions of Naira. Beside you haven't told me what white man used all those statute for.

My stories are based on ancient myths. So you want to tell me you have never heard of thunder strike remember I said it happened in my present not story story. Ofcourse I know if scientist were there at that time they will find something to say just the way they doubt miracles today.

Science of a thing you read it either on books or internet sir, and atheist do believe that most christians were born with Bible. I'm a computer wizard and also a building engineer I have read many books about science because I so much love science but no man I repeat no ma can ever tell me there is no God. So my brother you're not the only one that is scientifically oriented.

Only a fool will let ignorance control him.

The whites keep the statutes in their museum and they call Them African relics. where do you get the idea that they worship them?

No one ever said christians are born with the bible. I was a christian myself.

Science is natural observation and our observation say that God does not exist and that is what am telling you. God does not exist-that is a fact. You are delusional.

Pastor Olu T: I did not because to me its a waste of time and besides my browser did not allow me, just do a summary and lets discuss it.

guess how I knew?

Reyginus: Your first sentence contradicts your second. Maybe you have to do some clarification. Is homosexuality for or against the norm?

Psychosis and madness is impure
Homosexuality is not.

Reyginus: You mean, observation provides the justification for every occurence in nature. Interesting...Do you also mean that madness and every other forms of psychosis are impure and don't follow natural means?

Impure? yes because it is against the norm and it is harmful.

Homosexuality is never harmful. There is the difference.

[quote author=inspiredbyGOD:.]@Striktlymi, what would you say about pharoah holding back the Israelites? Was that by his own freewill or was he influenced to make that decision?[/quote]The bible clearly stated that God held pharaoh's mind influencing his decision. Imagine that.

How do we know Osama Bin Laden didn't fall victim of same evil from God and here we are condemning him.

Reyginus: Okay let me ask our friend wikipedia.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontheism
Nontheism is a term that covers a range of both religious[1] and nonreligious[2] attitudes characterized by the absence or rejection of theism or any belief in a personal god or gods.
Ooman, is this what you're talking about?

do you have to ask again?

Reyginus: Hmmm! Okay. Let's get to business. How do you justify homosexuality based on naturalism?

because it is observable in nature. Its been documented in rats, star fish and other animals.

It doesn't occur in man alone, it also occurs in other animals. This is why it is pure and natural and not some mental impairment.

Reyginus: What is nontheism? Educate me.

Educating people is what I dont have time for on nairaland. I come here to debate not to teach. Google what you dont know or go back to school.

Reyginus: Na wa o. Is logic subjective?

you'd be surprised how people like yourself define logic. This is what I have seen on nairaland.

Reyginus: Ofcourse, that's true. On a flipside, I'm also not saying that atheism adheres to religious belief. But to denounce atheism is the religious belief.

You really think am now religious?? Heck, I could be insane too. Nontheism is what I evolved into.

striktlymi: Sure I will!

did I rub a nerve?

Reyginus: ofcourse you can, but it must be followed by a logical conclusion.

exactly what naturalism is - it must be followed by a provable continuous observation since we differ in what we term logical

striktlymi: Good morning me guy,

Hmmm...when you accuse someone of evading the truth and telling lies, then you should be ready to put 'your money where your mouth is'.

I await your response to the so called 'lies and truth evasion'. Kindly embarrass me by pointing out the lies and demonstrate how I have evaded the truth.


Thanks!

wait for it.

Reyginus: Was it not this same ooman who told us that he's left atheism? You're true to yourself bro!

I never told you I believed in that character called God.

Kay 17: Discernible simplistic entities that exist outside space and time.

Transfer of energy without loss? That's contrary to the laws of thermodynamics. Energy is always lost during transfer. Superconductivity does not explain Consciousness and qualia.

Exactly what I have problem with. But its his hypothesis and all hypothesis are not perfect when conceived so am allowing Plaetton some room to develop it.

^^^There is nothing in nature you cannot explain on the basis of naturalism…

^^^^ am on mobile now. will reply your prevarications and obvious lies when I get on PC

striktlymi: Each time I look around and see the level of hatred people exhibit just because of religion, I become very distressed. I see absolutely no reason why people can't tollerate each others views or religious affiliation. When will we stop this "madness"? When are we going to stop allowing our passion take the better part of our being? If someone's opinion offends you, can't you express your thoughts without necessarily running the person down? Two wrongs never make a right! I understand that it is very sensitive to talk about religion but I believe that there must be a common ground for everyone to relate in peace. If you can't find that common ground then know that we are first and foremost, humans before any religion. What religion did you practice in your mother's womb? The more we lose ourselves when talking about religion the more we prove Karl Max right.

You seem not to know the major problem here. Religions are only aftermaths of the cause. The main cause of religism and all other evil is that character called God.

God is the source of all evil. In the OT, God commanded the killing of idol worshipers. I know of no other religism than God commanding witches and wizards and idol worshipers to be killed.
The muslim God is worst.

God is the problem of man. God is the source of all evil. God is what we must do away with.

Pastor Olu T: I hope you will understand the technicalities when you discover the truth, i also hope that will not be too late.

You obviously didn't watch the video. You obviously are not ready to learn.

The guy's girlfriend told him she would rather date a murderer than an atheist! This is pathetically ridiculous coming from the religious who are supposed to love everyone.

Pastor Olu T: Rather its you that know nothing about what you claim, i never asked you to tell me anything about the bible yet i made my stand known. Now you are asked to do th same you now want to turn the table, even if you want to correct me will you not do that by telling me your stand?

sorry i cant start evolution with you again. Let me refer you though:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK3O6KYPmEw

This will tell you more about the evolution of man

I hope you will understand the technicals

JeSoul: Aside that this is insensitive, a family just lost a member, the thing to do is not try and score cheap brownie points. Nevertheless, this quote of yours has serious K-leg.

I reject the above. I commented out of pure sympathy. You cannot accuse me of being brutal. I wasnt trying to mock, i was trying to show that there is a greater chance that the son would still be alive if God was never involved in man's affairs. I wasnt trying to "score" points, i was trying to comment by "making" points. Dont imply am a brute

JeSoul: Atheists such as yourself like to sound in our ears all day long that man is responsible for his own destiny, why in this case have you changed your stance? shouldn't the son have been responsible for his own life? why is this his father's fault? or the fault of his father's religion?

I never said it was the father's fault. I blamed religion and the false idea of God that the father carried and propagated.

JeSoul: Meanwhile there are millions of Rick Warren followers - both christian & non-christian by the way - who swear that his book changed their lives. But of course, ignore all that and focus on only this. Myopia is already a certified symptom of neo-modern pop-atheists.

Cheerios my dear ooman.

As i have said. Purpose and satisfaction is never in a religion or God. Every individual must find purpose and satisfaction, when not, such decision as suicide results. This aggravated by the idea that it is God that gives purpose, the idea that fails always, ineluctably resulting into such events as suicide.

Since God himself was made up in the human heart, anything about can also be made up. I can even bring up a tetratarianism and prove it to be true. I can say God is 4 in 1.

God is a product of the human heart. I rest my case.

front page this pls https://www.nairaland.com/1254148/why-idea-god-fraud

let the truth about God be known to the world